MMORPGer's Killed PC gaming... Or did Casual Games do it? agree or disagree

It is with a heavy heart that I look upon the already dreary and abysmal exclusive to PC gaming landscape. Oh, yes, there are great games on the way, and great games just this past holiday still gracing my harddrive with thier bountiful presence, but I cannot help but look just over the fence with dirty, dirty longing in my heart at the console player's list of games...

It used to be that multi-platform release included the PC, but now it appears the old biege box has been forgotten in a dank dusty corner of Game Publisher's warehouse full of console exclusive releases. Oh, sure, we get some of them, the really big tickets ones are eventually ported over, but it feels like so much of an afterthought - an afterthought that's month's or even years late, at that, and not even optimized for the platform with absolutely no patch support most of the time.

And with the announcement that PC version of Madden has been unceremoniously executed, and moreso than that, the heart breaking snub of one of the PC's most storied and stalwart of developers - Lucasarts - having seemingly forgotten it's PC roots will NOT be releasing Force Unleashed on the PC. Both companies state that the business of PC's in comparison to consoles is much too risky - seems to be that sailing in that when sailing in the PC seas you are in danger of being harassed by freebooter, freelancers, seamen who have a fondness for grog, matey! (But that's not a valid excuse as Sins of a Solar Empire has proven http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080320-pc-game-developer-has-radical-message-ignore-the-pirates.html)

So, what is left on the horizon of PC gaming? Apparently the only thing making money on the venerable old desktop are MoMORPuGers. WHY?!?! Where are all the other innovative, interesting, cutting edge games that turn our expectations about gameplay and quirkiness on ear?! - Why they've all been eclipsed by the huge cash bovine that are cookie-cutter, homogenous CASUAL GAMES!!!

It appears that these 2 genres have been slowly stifling the growth and percieved viabilty of the PC as a viable gaming machine not only for the big ticket, big licence games that we're getting so few of these coming days, but also for innovation and ingenuity that would help the gaming as a whole. So, I just wanted people's thoughts on this not only from PC gamers themselves but from console- and multi-system owners as well.

PC gaming never died.pinneyapple

If you want a reason for the "downfall" of PC gaming, look no further than the two biggest reasons of stupidly high system spec requirements and an overall lack of quality.

PC gamers just can't seem to handle that consoles are getting very close to having the features that PC's have been supporting for years. All that level creator and online stuff is now on all platforms. Now you've got console systems with all the perks of a PC and the huge advantage of a one time charge for the system. I love knowing I'll never have to open my Wii and add a new video card every few months in order to stay ahead of the tech curve. Sure I'll have to buy a few extra controllers and maybe a big plastic guitar every once in a while, but chances are I can pimp out my system with all the accessories for an 1/8th of the cost of a fully upgraded computer rig that will be outdated before the year is up.

Besides, why bother with PC gaming? There's really nothing to play, nothing to buy. Sure you may have your counter-argument, but PC gamers have to face the fact that anything of any quality on PC will either get ported to a console or was on the console first. I know the argument of the keyboard/mouse combo being the superior way to play an FPS, but are you going to seriously tell me that's worth the insane amount of money it takes to keep the computer upgraded? I think not.

Nothing has killed it.

Its just slowing down until it gets back up.

If you want a reason for the "downfall" of PC gaming, look no further than the two biggest reasons of stupidly high system spec requirements and an overall lack of quality.

PC gamers just can't seem to handle that consoles are getting very close to having the features that PC's have been supporting for years. All that level creator and online stuff is now on all platforms. Now you've got console systems with all the perks of a PC and the huge advantage of a one time charge for the system. I love knowing I'll never have to open my Wii and add a new video card every few months in order to stay ahead of the tech curve. Sure I'll have to buy a few extra controllers and maybe a big plastic guitar every once in a while, but chances are I can pimp out my system with all the accessories for an 1/8th of the cost of a fully upgraded computer rig that will be outdated before the year is up.

Besides, why bother with PC gaming? There's really nothing to play, nothing to buy. Sure you may have your counter-argument, but PC gamers have to face the fact that anything of any quality on PC will either get ported to a console or was on the console first. I know the argument of the keyboard/mouse combo being the superior way to play an FPS, but are you going to seriously tell me that's worth the insane amount of money it takes to keep the computer upgraded? I think not.

sniper_basic

The only downside to PC gaming is the price. It is better than any console in every other aspect.

Edit: Overall lack of quality? Please, call me when games like Diablo/WoW/WC3/CS/Q3A/Starcraft/NWN/Crysis/Half Life(Don't even try to argue that this isn't a PC gaming behemoth) come out on consoles. Your argument regarding high pc spec requirements holds some weight, but this is the way its always been more or less. Pushing the hardware.

I do admit that PC gaming is a bit elitist, but I like it that way.

Edit: Overall lack of quality? Please, call me when games like Diablo/WoW/WC3/CS/Q3A/Starcraft/NWN/Crysis/Half Life(Don't even try to argue that this isn't a PC gaming behemoth) come out on consoles.

the_one34

Counter-Strike, Half-Life, and Half-Life 2 are available on consoles. But you do make a good point on the quality thing.

[QUOTE="the_one34"]

Edit: Overall lack of quality? Please, call me when games like Diablo/WoW/WC3/CS/Q3A/Starcraft/NWN/Crysis/Half Life(Don't even try to argue that this isn't a PC gaming behemoth) come out on consoles.

LordAndrew

Counter-Strike, Half-Life, and Half-Life 2 are available on consoles. But you do make a good point on the quality thing.

Yes I know but thats like saying Halo and GeoW are mainly PC. They just aren't. Oh and don't even mention CS on the xbox, biggest flop ever. I'm not a PC fanboy, I've got a PS1/PS2/PS3 and I was going to get a 360 but when I realised that GeOW AND ME were coming to PC...what's the point? I can probably play ME at FULL HD res and not 640something p and at 4xAA and 16xAF.

If you want a reason for the "downfall" of PC gaming, look no further than the two biggest reasons of stupidly high system spec requirements and an overall lack of quality.

PC gamers just can't seem to handle that consoles are getting very close to having the features that PC's have been supporting for years. All that level creator and online stuff is now on all platforms. Now you've got console systems with all the perks of a PC and the huge advantage of a one time charge for the system. I love knowing I'll never have to open my Wii and add a new video card every few months in order to stay ahead of the tech curve. Sure I'll have to buy a few extra controllers and maybe a big plastic guitar every once in a while, but chances are I can pimp out my system with all the accessories for an 1/8th of the cost of a fully upgraded computer rig that will be outdated before the year is up.

Besides, why bother with PC gaming? There's really nothing to play, nothing to buy. Sure you may have your counter-argument, but PC gamers have to face the fact that anything of any quality on PC will either get ported to a console or was on the console first. I know the argument of the keyboard/mouse combo being the superior way to play an FPS, but are you going to seriously tell me that's worth the insane amount of money it takes to keep the computer upgraded? I think not.

sniper_basic

Have fun with your wii with 3 total good games.Trilvester

That's quite ignorant. Would you like it if we said that the PC has only 3 good games?

[QUOTE="Trilvester"]Have fun with your wii with 3 total good games.LordAndrew

That's quite ignorant. Would you like it if we said that the PC has only 3 good games?

It's not that PC gaming is dying, it's just that the focus of the industry has moved to consoles. There are some good reasons for that, such as piracy and accessibility. What matters to me is this: can I play WoW, Starcraft II and Heroes of Might & Magic V on console? Nope, so I need a PC. Can I play Soul Calibur IV, MGS4, Rock Band, Mario Galaxy and God of War on PC? Nope, so I need a console.

I don't care about elitism, hardware superiority, casual gamers and whatnot. I only care about the games I want to play.

More MMOs and Casuals games = good thing.

Devs can still developp any game they want, if they want to focus on MMOs and casuals game, I am listening. I play some casuals games, but I find a way to make them fun, from my perspective, isn't going to be possible in future releases? We will see.

ATM, I have a huge lack of interest in MMOs. They all try to force you to do something you don't want (Raiding/PvP/RvR), this stubborness is a mistake. I want to solo/group in PvE. And that is it. Other gameplays will be TOLERATED if they don't mess up with this PvE solo/grouping, so best rewards have to be granted all inside grouping/soloing, no compromise. You want to give a motivation for peoples to play whatever else? Not my problem, all the phat loot belong to solo/grouping or I am just not going to play this game, and many will do the same or quit because of such a poor focus.

See, these efforts to put a minority endgame may gain you support from some wackos, but it also cost you support from other players. In my book, you must make sure an aspect you adds doesn't reduce your player pool or then, you work on anything else. Giving ALL the loot to PvE-soloers/groupers is a MUST.

PC gamers just can't seem to handle that consoles are getting very close to having the features that PC's have been supporting for years. All that level creator and online stuff is now on all platforms. Now you've got console systems with all the perks of a PC and the huge advantage of a one time charge for the system.sniper_basic

I love knowing I'll never have to open my Wii and add a new video card every few months in order to stay ahead of the tech curve. Sure I'll have to buy a few extra controllers and maybe a big plastic guitar every once in a while, but chances are I can pimp out my system with all the accessories for an 1/8th of the cost of a fully upgraded computer rig that will be outdated before the year is up.sniper_basic

Besides, why bother with PC gaming? There's really nothing to play, nothing to buy. Sure you may have your counter-argument, but PC gamers have to face the fact that anything of any quality on PC will either get ported to a console or was on the console first. I know the argument of the keyboard/mouse combo being the superior way to play an FPS, but are you going to seriously tell me that's worth the insane amount of money it takes to keep the computer upgraded? I think not.sniper_basic

[QUOTE="sniper_basic"]

PC gamers just can't seem to handle that consoles are getting very close to having the features that PC's have been supporting for years. All that level creator and online stuff is now on all platforms. Now you've got console systems with all the perks of a PC and the huge advantage of a one time charge for the system.RobbieH1234

I love knowing I'll never have to open my Wii and add a new video card every few months in order to stay ahead of the tech curve. Sure I'll have to buy a few extra controllers and maybe a big plastic guitar every once in a while, but chances are I can pimp out my system with all the accessories for an 1/8th of the cost of a fully upgraded computer rig that will be outdated before the year is up.sniper_basic

Besides, why bother with PC gaming? There's really nothing to play, nothing to buy. Sure you may have your counter-argument, but PC gamers have to face the fact that anything of any quality on PC will either get ported to a console or was on the console first. I know the argument of the keyboard/mouse combo being the superior way to play an FPS, but are you going to seriously tell me that's worth the insane amount of money it takes to keep the computer upgraded? I think not.sniper_basic

I'm all for your arguments, except for the last one. Even if somehow you did find more games you'd like to play on the PC than on all consoles combined, it's still very subjective. You can't "research" AAA titles. You either like/want some games or you don't.

I'm all for your arguments, except for the last one. Even if somehow you did find more games you'd like to play on the PC than on all consoles combined, it's still very subjective. You can't "research" AAA titles. You either like/want some games or you don't.

nopalversion

If you want a reason for the "downfall" of PC gaming, look no further than the two biggest reasons of stupidly high system spec requirements and an overall lack of quality.sniper_basic

PC always gives people choice - the kind of choice console gamers cannot ever fathom. Want to play all the lastest tech showpieces on max and have the money - go for it. Want to play those same games, but only have a limited budget - go for it if you're not the type who pulls his hair out if you have to scale back settings. Want to delay playing those games until hardware prices drop significantly by next year or less all the while enjoying other not-as-taxing current games (the majority of PC games is not stuff like Crysis, contrary to popular belief) - ****ing go for it. PC gaming is what you make of it.

PC gamers just can't seem to handle that consoles are getting very close to having the features that PC's have been supporting for years. All that level creator and online stuff is now on all platforms. Now you've got console systems with all the perks of a PC and the huge advantage of a one time charge for the system.sniper_basic

There's nothing to handle, consoles are not even close to the level of PC. Compared to PC's, customization and connectivity is extremely limited. If you think level editors are even close to the capabilities of full-blown SDK's, you are very much mistaken. There was much fanfare about mods being possible on PS3 and 360. Microsoft is making it their business not allowing mods and...I guess nobody's making them on PS3 since I've yet to hear a whisper on that front.

When did PC gaming die? Apparently, I did not get the memo. In fact, are there not more PCs in more households today than any console out there? No matter how low end the PC is in that family's household it still makes it for a viable platform for gaming. I really don't understand.

I'm not sure why there are people in such a hurry to label PC gaming dead because as long as there is one in every household it will never die.

I don't think I will ever understand... *shrugs shoulders*

When did PC gaming die? Apparently, I did not get the memo. In fact, are there not more PCs in more households today than any console out there? No matter how low end the PC is in that family's household it still makes it for a viable platform for gaming. I really don't understand.

I'm not sure why there are people in such a hurry to label PC gaming dead because as long as there is one in every household it will never die.

I don't think I will ever understand... *shrugs shoulders*

juradai

Game sales are what matter, not how many computers are floating around. There were once a ton VCRs floating around, but that didn't translate into a thriving market for VCR games (remember those?). Not to say that the PC market is dying or even unhealthly (I haven't paid it much attention) but for whatever reason there do seem to be quite a few traditionally PC only developers who are moving to the console arena.

Some of those things listed as PC gaming pluses are really negatives when you're a business.

Blizzard is making a fortune off the 5 million subscribers to WoW but I know about 10 people that since they've bought that game, play very little else. So having a game with such a large and great following isn't a plus for the whole market, it's a plus for Blizzard.

Also user created mods and game longevity are also minuses from a business standpoint. I'll admit, devs like Bioware make me buy their games more often because they have such a great community, but when I'm downloading free expansions, mods and playing online for countless hours, that means no one else is getting my money.

these things are great for us consumers.

[QUOTE="juradai"]

When did PC gaming die? Apparently, I did not get the memo. In fact, are there not more PCs in more households today than any console out there? No matter how low end the PC is in that family's household it still makes it for a viable platform for gaming. I really don't understand.

I'm not sure why there are people in such a hurry to label PC gaming dead because as long as there is one in every household it will never die.

I don't think I will ever understand... *shrugs shoulders*

CarnageHeart

Game sales are what matter, not how many computers are floating around. There were once a ton VCRs floating around, but that didn't translate into a thriving market for VCR games (remember those?). Not to say that the PC market is dying or even unhealthly (I haven't paid it much attention) but for whatever reason there do seem to be quite a few traditionally PC only developers who are moving to the console arena.

Well the way I see, Carnage, is that the PC as a is still very relevent in households today unlike the VCR and it's VCR games. And yes, I do remember those. In fact, I have one still, haha. However, I don't see the VCR as an equal comparison to the PC. You and I both know that the functions of the PC far outweigh those of the VCR and to see it applied as an analogy in this case is a bit of a stretch.

You are very right, sales do definitely matter. The point I am trying to enforce is that just because sales are lower than previous years doesn't mean it's dead. As long as PCs are in households there is always going to be a market whether it be on the more casual side or heavier on the "hardcore" side.

Glad to see so many people caught on to my post. To be completely honest, I really don't think PC gaming is anywhere close to dead. PC's are becoming a bigger part of people's lives every day and as long as people are still using PC's, people will keep making games for it. It's like people making games for a mobile.

I get the argument that upgrading your computer to play the latest games really isn't that big of a difference than buying a console, but it's the fact you have to keep upgrading it to keep playing the newest games. That's just the nature of PC gaming's oneupsmanship.

Imagine I buy a PS2 at launch and my friend upgrades his computer to the latest tech at the same time. Now we're out relatively the same amount of money at that point. Now speaking from a strict hardware standpoint, I may spend money on another controller and a couple of memory cards, give or take broken controllers and cards. Meanwhile, he's upgrading his computer every few months to keep up with demand. Here we are seven years later and I've finally decided to buy a newer console since I just got bored of God of War 2. My friend has probably spent far more than I have on his gaming. PC gaming is a VERY expensive hobby in the long run.

I also noticed someone was giving a list of pretty old games that were PC exclusive that have strong online communities. That was back when consoles were barely breaking into the online market. Now in the days of PSN and XBL, online communities are sprouting up for consoles now too. If your argument is that PC exclusives have the strongest online basis, that argument is fading fast. However, I will say my "nothing to play, nothing to buy" comment may have been a bit much. I guess not all of us can live on free Flash games alone.

There was also someone who brought up a good point about how PC's give you an option of how upgraded you want to be and when. My PC specs are far from the best, but it plays the games I want to play. I scale back graphics, but I couldn't care less about graphics. Heck, I still play my CD copy of Sam and Max and Day of the Tentacle on the monthly basis. My problem with this line of thinking is if I bring my PC gaming friends over and show my computer off, they'll laugh in my face and tell me all their "uber-1337" specs that they worked so hard to get. The PC community at large is an elitist group and will usually make fun of your system at the drop of the hat. If I want to play my Sims 2 with reflections off, why is that a bad thing?

If I missed anyone, let me know. I'm enjoying playing Devil's Advocate.

Not to say that the PC market is dying or even unhealthly (I haven't paid it much attention) but for whatever reason there do seem to be quite a few traditionally PC only developers who are moving to the console arena.CarnageHeart

They are not moving, they are spreading. And the reason is very simple - they want to be as successful as possible. Some developers find success on consoles, some on PC, and some on both. Ask guys like Cliffy B and they'll tell you PC is in disarray. Ask Valve or Blizzard and you're likely to hear a very different story.

these things are great for us consumers.smerlus

Why exactly should I care about anything else? I'm not in it to support corporations, I'm not a stockholder - I'm in it for the games.

Meanwhile, he's upgrading his computer every few months to keep up with demand.sniper_basic

Ok, please stop saying that because it's fantastically false.

PC gaming is a VERY expensive hobby in the long run.sniper_basic

PC gaming is as expensive as you make it to be. You do understand that PC gaming is much more popular in developing countries and console gaming is more popular in developed countries. Ask yourself why? Because, in the end, PC gaming is more affordable. These days, PC's are a necessity - consoles are still viewed as nothing more than toys. Their sole purpose is to play games. A lot of people simply cannot afford a dedicated gaming machine. On the other hand, they need a PC be it for work, school or whatever - and they use it as a gaming machine as well.

PC hardware is more expensive, but the software is much cheaper. PC games are cheaper from the start and their prices fall extremely fast. Also, PC games have incredible longevity whereas most console games are expendible goods. There's nothing like Civilization, The Sims or World of Warcraft on consoles. You beat a console game, you move on - that costs some serious money.

My problem with this line of thinking is if I bring my PC gaming friends over and show my computer off, they'll laugh in my face and tell me all their "uber-1337" specs that they worked so hard to get. The PC community at large is an elitist group and will usually make fun of your system at the drop of the hat. If I want to play my Sims 2 with reflections off, why is that a bad thing?sniper_basic

Seems to me your problem lies in your friends and you being phased by their comments, not PC gaming.

[QUOTE="smerlus"]these things are great for us consumers.UpInFlames

Why exactly should I care about anything else? I'm not in it to support corporations, I'm not a stockholder - I'm in it for the games.

Come on now, if you're using that quote in context with my whole post, than that is an easy question to answer.

If everyone is just playing these bunch of games that last forever then no money is being spent elsewhere and other companies go out of business. Supply and Demand

Come on now, if you're using that quote in context with my whole post, than that is an easy question to answer.

If everyone is just playing these bunch of games that last forever then no money is being spent elsewhere and other companies go out of business. Supply and Demandsmerlus

Considering that the number of PC gamers outweighs the number of all console gamers put together by far, there's still plenty of money to be made. There is no other platform that can support 10 million people playing World of Warcraft, another 10 million playing The Sims 2...and then on top of that, games like The Witcher, Call of Duty 4, Crysis, etc., etc. still sell over a million copies worldwide. And then you have people who still play Ultima Online, Counter-Strike 1.6, Team Fortress Classic......I'm not worried at all.

Honestly, even IF PC gaming died today, I would be satisfied with what's already out there. I mean, some of the best titles have already been made and I don't see anything newer that can surpass some of these games. Also, a lot of these games are so good that they can last countless play throughs and some can go on for the next three generations.

For example, my favorite genres are RTS, RPGs, and FPSs. Just give me Starcraft and Company of Heroes to give me all the RTS fix I need, and then we'll get Starcraft II this year that can last for, who knows how long. Call of Duty 4, Team Fortress 2, Bioshock, and Half-Life 2 for all my FPS needs, and games like WoW, Oblivion, or Diablo II is more than enough to keep me going for the next few years. And I'm still not bored of these titles.

I think PC gaming will always be around, the only thing I'm worried about is having enough money to keep up. But like I said, even if developers stopped supporting PC gaming, I think I'll still be satisfied with what I have and what's out there.

[QUOTE="smerlus"]Come on now, if you're using that quote in context with my whole post, than that is an easy question to answer.

If everyone is just playing these bunch of games that last forever then no money is being spent elsewhere and other companies go out of business. Supply and DemandUpInFlames

Considering that the number of PC gamers outweighs the number of all console gamers put together by far, there's still plenty of money to be made. There is no other platform that can support 10 million people playing World of Warcraft, another 10 million playing The Sims 2...and then on top of that, games like The Witcher, Call of Duty 4, Crysis, etc., etc. still sell over a million copies worldwide. And then you have people who still play Ultima Online, Counter-Strike 1.6, Team Fortress Classic......I'm not worried at all.

and all the while less known devs like Troika go out of business or indies get swallowed up by publishers and their games change for a more mass appeal like Irrational Games.

Ok, please stop saying that because it's fantastically false.UpInFlames

I'm just speaking on experience. People keep upgrading this and that on their PC about 3 times a year. I'm sorry if you think I mean upgrading the ENTIRE PC, that's not what I meant. I mean the people getting that new RAM stick or that slightly faster video card, not all at once.

PC gaming is as expensive as you make it to be. You do understand that PC gaming is much more popular in developing countries and console gaming is more popular in developed countries. Ask yourself why? Because, in the end, PC gaming is more affordable. These days, PC's are a necessity - consoles are still viewed as nothing more than toys. Their sole purpose is to play games. A lot of people simply cannot afford a dedicated gaming machine. On the other hand, they need a PC be it for work, school or whatever - and they use it as a gaming machine as well.

PC hardware is more expensive, but the software is much cheaper. PC games are cheaper from the start and their prices fall extremely fast. Also, PC games have incredible longevity whereas most console games are expendible goods. There's nothing like Civilization, The Sims or World of Warcraft on consoles. You beat a console game, you move on - that costs some serious money.UpInFlames

Now there's some presumptions about console games. I rarely simply beat a game and "move on". I've beaten Guitar Hero 3, for instance, multiple times and I'm still playing it constantly. I was still playing Smash Brothers Melee before Brawl came out. I know tons of people who still participte in Halo team matches. Replay value differs from game to game, no matter the system it comes out on. As for the more popular in undeveloped countries thing, that's like saying playing Snake on a cell phone is also using it as a gaming machine. I don't doubt that PC's are everywhere due to their immense capabilites, but using it as a game machine too is more of a side effect of the globalization of PC's than a main point. Other than WoW, I can't think of another game that has such a worldwide influence, though I'm sure there are other games with that claim.

Seems to me your problem lies in your friends and you being phased by their comments, not PC gaming.UpInFlames

That's the thing though. I've gotten so much worse from PC gamers I don't know. If I put my specs out on a forum for instance, I'm almost guaranteed to get a few comments about how much of a "noob" machine it is, followed by their PC specs. If I go to a convention, all I hear are people bragging about their system specs and even their cases. Even the ads I see are geared to the pure show of it. Everything I've ever seen or heard of PC gaming is an elitism towards being bigger and badder than the other guy.

Game sales are what matter...CarnageHeart

and all the while less known devs like Troika go out of business or indies get swallowed up by publishers and their games change for a more mass appeal like Irrational Games.smerlus

And others like CD Projekt Red prosper. Oddworld Inhabitants and Headfirst Productions went out of business on consoles. This is not inherent to PC. There are many factors as to why companies go out of business.

I'm just speaking on experience. People keep upgrading this and that on their PC about 3 times a year. I'm sorry if you think I mean upgrading the ENTIRE PC, that's not what I meant. I mean the people getting that new RAM stick or that slightly faster video card, not all at once.sniper_basic

People who upgrade anything on their PC three times a year don't know what the hell they're doing. That's like me going out and buying three Xbox 360's and five PS3's and complaining about consoles being expensive.

Now there's some presumptions about console games. I rarely simply beat a game and "move on". I've beaten Guitar Hero 3, for instance, multiple times and I'm still playing it constantly. I was still playing Smash Brothers Melee before Brawl came out. I know tons of people who still participte in Halo team matches. Replay value differs from game to game, no matter the system it comes out on.sniper_basic

Those aren't presumptions, but facts. Yes, there are always exceptions to the rule, but that's all they are.

As for the more popular in undeveloped countries thing, that's like saying playing Snake on a cell phone is also using it as a gaming machine. I don't doubt that PC's are everywhere due to their immense capabilites, but using it as a game machine too is more of a side effect of the globalization of PC's than a main point. Other than WoW, I can't think of another game that has such a worldwide influence, though I'm sure there are other games with that claim.sniper_basic

I'm not sure what is your argument here. Do you even disagree with what I've said? And I have no idea what does this have to do with World of Warcraft, this was a reality long before 2004.

That's the thing though. I've gotten so much worse from PC gamers I don't know. If I put my specs out on a forum for instance, I'm almost guaranteed to get a few comments about how much of a "noob" machine it is, followed by their PC specs. If I go to a convention, all I hear are people bragging about their system specs and even their cases. Even the ads I see are geared to the pure show of it. Everything I've ever seen or heard of PC gaming is an elitism towards being bigger and badder than the other guy.sniper_basic

That's like saying console gaming sucks because of all the annoying kids on Live. Of course, a lot of people are totally into that stuff and some are jerks about it. Nobody's forcing you to associate yourself with them, just play the games. I really don't understand how is that a knock against PC gaming. The community is vast and there are plenty of cool people who are ready to help out newcomers and I see it every day on these very forums.

[QUOTE="smerlus"]and all the while less known devs like Troika go out of business or indies get swallowed up by publishers and their games change for a more mass appeal like Irrational Games.UpInFlames

And others like CD Projekt Red prosper. Oddworld Inhabitants and Headfirst Productions went out of business on consoles. This is not inherent to PC. There are many factors as to why companies go out of business.

Actually Headfirst was more PC than a console developer. All three titles they had planned were all to reach PC, only two of them were going to be on console. Also they went under before any of their games were released

and Oddworld Inhabitants aren't developing games anymore but working on a movie as of mid 2007 (it does say they have games planned for the release of the movie.)

WoW... (the exclamation, not the game)

The arguments and the points raised on this topic have almost swayed my fervor back into PC gaming once again. Speaking as a lapsed member of the "elitist" PC-gaming community, reading all the good stuff about being a PC gamer makes me almost want to get back under the hood of my old reliable workhorse and pimp it out again.

But, then again, I said almost. I see development houses leaving the PC gaming scene like rats off of a sinking ship, and bestowing upon the consoles games and ideas that would have been awesome on a mouse and keyboard with FSAA, shader model 3.0 and directx10, but shall, sadly, never experience the oomph of the processing power of a multi-core CPU and a kicka$$ GPU.

As a PC gamer, shall I never experience anything even at least similar to the whirling chain blades of Kratos? Shall I be forced to look in envy upon the exploits of Snake from my perch in front of my desktop? Shall the force, which is to be Unleased on consoles everywhere, forsake the thousands, nay, millions of Star Wars fanatics with a mouse in thier right hands and tears of betrayal in their eyes? Shall I never get to experience the power of a Hadouken or the beautifully brutal strategic ballet that is a really deep and superb vs fighting game?

Must I forever be looking down the barrel of a gun? Or pointing and clicking at my military minions to collect gas, grass and cash to churn out guns, grunts and atomic doomsday machine stunts? Does PC gaming have to be all about PvP, grinding, raiding and collecting phat lewt with that Jenkins guy, because the big 400lb gorilla of Blizzard's has bumped out developers not working on an MMO, and left only the ones that hope to ape that huge ape for a slice of the MoMoRPuGeR cash pie? Does the last bastion of hope of PC gaming really rest upon housewives the world over addicted to aligning same-hued blocks in a row or bouncing a silver ball of off pachinko pegs?

I just hate it the way that these 2 genres are suffocating developers to the point that if it isn't an MMO or a casual game, most publishers won't even touch it - or worse yet, turn it to a console exclusive.

As much as I loved tweaking and tinkering with my beloved PC, is it still really worth it?

To whom should my hard earned dollars go?

To Master Chief?

To the shiny black box with Blu-ray?

Or should I dig once more into the innards of my desktop machine and explore the gaming goodness that may still lie within?

[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]Game sales are what matter...foxhound_fox

Unlike the person I was responding to, you failed to grasp my point. Since my argument was too complex for you, I'll simplify it.

In short, the size of the PC gaming market isn't the number of PCs sold, but the number of people who buy games for the PC.

Now that you (hopefully) understand my argument, do you have anything intelligent to say in response to it, or will you continue to blather about profits, advertising and systems wars?

I'm not sure what is your argument here. Do you even disagree with what I've said? And I have no idea what does this have to do with World of Warcraft, this was a reality long before 2004.UpInFlames

What I meant is that undeveloped countries having more PCs speaks more for the importance of PCs on the global scale and that PC gaming is a mere side effect of that development, not anything to brag about in a debate solely on the gaming aspect of a PC.

That's like saying console gaming sucks because of all the annoying kids on Live. Of course, a lot of people are totally into that stuff and some are jerks about it. Nobody's forcing you to associate yourself with them, just play the games. I really don't understand how is that a knock against PC gaming. The community is vast and there are plenty of cool people who are ready to help out newcomers and I see it every day on these very forums.UpInFlames

The amount of jerks in PC gaming is that same as console gaming. I know people who can't play games like Counterstrike and Wow (alliance side) anymore because of all the annoying kids who make the game not fun. PC gaming is worse on this front due to the ease of hacking. Granted this has become MUCH better thanks to advances in hack busting programs, but it's still a reality in online games. I do know that not everyone who plays a PC is a complete jerk, but the level of elitism PC gamers can get to are unequaled.

People who upgrade anything on their PC three times a year don't know what the hell they're doing. That's like me going out and buying three Xbox 360's and five PS3's and complaining about consoles being expensive.UpInFlames

This is interesting, actually. All I ever hear from my primarily PC gaming friends is that new piece of equipment they're saving up fo and tend to buy a major part about three times a year on average. I will admit this is my own life experience talking and it may just be something that's more of a local thing. I wonder if Washington State is more inclined to spend wildly on PCs than go by other means. I also hear that this "overclocking" stuff can ruin a computer pretty quickly, so maybe that's apart of it too. Again, this is all I've ever known about PC gaming I am a bit biased in that regard.

Why do so many people think PC gaming has died? Ok so it doesn't really get many multi-platform games anymore, and both casual and mmo games are still on the rise, but that doesn't mean PC gaming is dead in any way. I'm actually glad that it's being separated from the pack because there's unique games on the PC that you won't see on any console, or games where the PC is the main platform with the consoles getting the ports. The Witcher, Crysis, Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2, Audiosurf. Just a couple games off the top of my head that aren't available on any console. There's talk about Crysis being ported to consoles, yes, but it won't be able to hold a candle to the PC version.

And just because there's more casual and mmo games coming out doesn't mean they're all automatically bad games. There's plenty of casual games which are extremely fun to play, and addictive to boot. There's plenty of bad one, too, but to say that either the MMO or casual genre has caused the demise of PC gaming is not only exaggerating but also a false accusation.

It is with a heavy heart that I look upon the already dreary and abysmal exclusive to PC gaming landscape. Oh, yes, there are great games on the way, and great games just this past holiday still gracing my harddrive with thier bountiful presence, but I cannot help but look just over the fence with dirty, dirty longing in my heart at the console player's list of games...

It used to be that multi-platform release included the PC, but now it appears the old biege box has been forgotten in a dank dusty corner of Game Publisher's warehouse full of console exclusive releases. Oh, sure, we get some of them, the really big tickets ones are eventually ported over, but it feels like so much of an afterthought - an afterthought that's month's or even years late, at that, and not even optimized for the platform with absolutely no patch support most of the time.

And with the announcement that PC version of Madden has been unceremoniously executed, and moreso than that, the heart breaking snub of one of the PC's most storied and stalwart of developers - Lucasarts - having seemingly forgotten it's PC roots will NOT be releasing Force Unleashed on the PC. Both companies state that the business of PC's in comparison to consoles is much too risky - seems to be that sailing in that when sailing in the PC seas you are in danger of being harassed by freebooter, freelancers, seamen who have a fondness for grog, matey! (But that's not a valid excuse as Sins of a Solar Empire has proven http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080320-pc-game-developer-has-radical-message-ignore-the-pirates.html)

So, what is left on the horizon of PC gaming? Apparently the only thing making money on the venerable old desktop are MoMORPuGers. WHY?!?! Where are all the other innovative, interesting, cutting edge games that turn our expectations about gameplay and quirkiness on ear?! - Why they've all been eclipsed by the huge cash bovine that are cookie-cutter, homogenous CASUAL GAMES!!!

It appears that these 2 genres have been slowly stifling the growth and percieved viabilty of the PC as a viable gaming machine not only for the big ticket, big licence games that we're getting so few of these coming days, but also for innovation and ingenuity that would help the gaming as a whole. So, I just wanted people's thoughts on this not only from PC gamers themselves but from console- and multi-system owners as well.

drquezon

It reads like a legal document, tbfh. That, and your points are all moot.

Actually Headfirst was more PC than a console developer. All three titles they had planned were all to reach PC, only two of them were going to be on console. Also they went under before any of their games were released

and Oddworld Inhabitants aren't developing games anymore but working on a movie as of mid 2007 (it does say they have games planned for the release of the movie.)smerlus

Both studios folded because their games were not successful on the Xbox - Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth came out on PC five months after the Xbox version. Headfirst filed for bankuptcy in February 2006, four months after the game was released on Xbox. All of their games were planned to be released on Xbox and they were developed for Xbox primarily. Oddworld Inhabitants still exists, but they shut down their game development studio.

But it's not really important as my point was that there are many reasons why developers go out of business, it's certainly not only a PC phenomenon. If anything, small indie devs cannot survive anywhere but on PC. As soon as they go to consoles, chances are that they will either be gobbled up by a large publisher or go out of business. There are many examples of successful indie PC devs...not so much on consoles. Even those few that exist cannot survive without tying themselves up to a large publisher - Insomniac and Bungie, for example. It's all about money, yes, but it's much more so on consoles than it is on PC.

What I meant is that undeveloped countries having more PCs speaks more for the importance of PCs on the global scale and that PC gaming is a mere side effect of that development, not anything to brag about in a debate solely on the gaming aspect of a PC.sniper_basic

Two questions - does it matter? Who's bragging?

This is interesting, actually. All I ever hear from my primarily PC gaming friends is that new piece of equipment they're saving up fo and tend to buy a major part about three times a year on average. I will admit this is my own life experience talking and it may just be something that's more of a local thing. I wonder if Washington State is more inclined to spend wildly on PCs than go by other means. I also hear that this "overclocking" stuff can ruin a computer pretty quickly, so maybe that's apart of it too. Again, this is all I've ever known about PC gaming I am a bit biased in that regard.sniper_basic

Your friends are extremist enthusiasts who like wasting money on stuff they don't need. They represent an extremely small portion of PC gamers - a portion which the uninformed are so hung upon. The reality is that the vast majority of PC gamers are probably the fussiest and most cost-conscious gamers out there - when it comes to both hardware and software.

[QUOTE="smerlus"]Actually Headfirst was more PC than a console developer. All three titles they had planned were all to reach PC, only two of them were going to be on console. Also they went under before any of their games were released

and Oddworld Inhabitants aren't developing games anymore but working on a movie as of mid 2007 (it does say they have games planned for the release of the movie.)UpInFlames

Both studios folded because their games were not successful on the Xbox - Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth came out on PC five months after the Xbox version. Headfirst filed for bankuptcy in February 2006, four months after the game was released on Xbox. All of their games were planned to be released on Xbox and they were developed for Xbox primarily. Oddworld Inhabitants still exists, but they shut down their game development studio.

But it's not really important as my point was that there are many reasons why developers go out of business, it's certainly not only a PC phenomenon. If anything, small indie devs cannot survive anywhere but on PC. As soon as they go to consoles, chances are that they will either be gobbled up by a large publisher or go out of business. There are many examples of successful indie PC devs...not so much on consoles. Even those few that exist cannot survive without tying themselves up to a large publisher - Insomniac and Bungie, for example. It's all about money, yes, but it's much more so on consoles than it is on PC.

Headfirst developed two PC only games before they developed or planned on developing the Call of Cthulhu games. Every single game they had ever done or were going to do was on PC 5:5, only 3 were planned for Xbox 3:5... they were most definitely a PC developer. ( i confused headfirst with hip interactive, for the bankruptcy, the people that were to publish the Call of Cthulhu games.)

And Oddworld Inhabitants was founded by a guy that had a high interest in movies so now they are making movies and plan on making a few games along with that (this was in an interview from 06/07)

I think your indie heavy PC market is a memory and doesn't apply to today's market. When you have companies that make semi popular games like Troika and Irrational dying out or getting swallowed up and going multiplatform as proof.

Your example of CD Projekt Red won't last that long. If you check out their hiring page, they've expressed interest in the past in hiring 360 and currently hiring PS3 programmers as has the developers of STALKER (they are now 360 certified and have the dev kits)

It just dosn't make sense to be an indie PC only developer unless you're shtick is strictly RTS or adventure games.

[QUOTE="drquezon"]

It is with a heavy heart that I look upon the already dreary and abysmal exclusive to PC gaming landscape. Oh, yes, there are great games on the way, and great games just this past holiday still gracing my harddrive with thier bountiful presence, but I cannot help but look just over the fence with dirty, dirty longing in my heart at the console player's list of games...

It used to be that multi-platform release included the PC, but now it appears the old biege box has been forgotten in a dank dusty corner of Game Publisher's warehouse full of console exclusive releases. Oh, sure, we get some of them, the really big tickets ones are eventually ported over, but it feels like so much of an afterthought - an afterthought that's month's or even years late, at that, and not even optimized for the platform with absolutely no patch support most of the time.

And with the announcement that PC version of Madden has been unceremoniously executed, and moreso than that, the heart breaking snub of one of the PC's most storied and stalwart of developers - Lucasarts - having seemingly forgotten it's PC roots will NOT be releasing Force Unleashed on the PC. Both companies state that the business of PC's in comparison to consoles is much too risky - seems to be that sailing in that when sailing in the PC seas you are in danger of being harassed by freebooter, freelancers, seamen who have a fondness for grog, matey! (But that's not a valid excuse as Sins of a Solar Empire has proven http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080320-pc-game-developer-has-radical-message-ignore-the-pirates.html)

So, what is left on the horizon of PC gaming? Apparently the only thing making money on the venerable old desktop are MoMORPuGers. WHY?!?! Where are all the other innovative, interesting, cutting edge games that turn our expectations about gameplay and quirkiness on ear?! - Why they've all been eclipsed by the huge cash bovine that are cookie-cutter, homogenous CASUAL GAMES!!!

It appears that these 2 genres have been slowly stifling the growth and percieved viabilty of the PC as a viable gaming machine not only for the big ticket, big licence games that we're getting so few of these coming days, but also for innovation and ingenuity that would help the gaming as a whole. So, I just wanted people's thoughts on this not only from PC gamers themselves but from console- and multi-system owners as well.

SKaREO

It reads like a legal document, tbfh. That, and your points are all moot.

I apologize, good sir. I'll try to use more monosyllabic words the next time, or perhaps you'd prefer to to use, oh, what is it that kids call it nowadays, L33T Sp34k if that is more to your liking.

And to reiterate my point:

Lots of different games = good for PC

Too many same game = downfall and doom.

Why so many the same? Nobody make money, except for blizzard and popcap.

Nobody make money = developers move to console and ignore PC.

(This is, of course, used in the broadest of terms, but for those with aversion to verbiage, it should suffice)

Headfirst developed two PC only games before they developed or planned on developing the Call of Cthulhu games. Every single game they had ever done or were going to do was on PC 5:5, only 3 were planned for Xbox 3:5... they were most definitely a PC developer. ( i confused headfirst with hip interactive, for the bankruptcy, the people that were to publish the Call of Cthulhu games.)smerlus

And they went out of business after releasing a console game. Are you missing my point on purpose or what? I simply provided two examples to illustrate that success is hardly guaranteed anywhere, so I really don't understand what's the point of pushing this any further.

And Oddworld Inhabitants was founded by a guy that had a high interest in movies so now they are making movies and plan on making a few games along with that (this was in an interview from 06/07)smerlus

Oddworld stopped making games not because Lanning's interest in movies prevailed, but because Stranger's Wrath was a commercial disaster.

I think your indie heavy PC market is a memory and doesn't apply to today's market. When you have companies that make semi popular games like Troika and Irrational dying out or getting swallowed up and going multiplatform as proof.

Your example of CD Projekt Red won't last that long. If you check out their hiring page, they've expressed interest in the past in hiring 360 and currently hiring PS3 programmers as has the developers of STALKER (they are now 360 certified and have the dev kits)smerlus

I'm not necessarily talking about PC-only indie devs. I fully count Valve in there as well, they're an indie dev that found great success on PC - much moreso than on consoles. But even if CD Projekt Red and GSC abandon PC in favor of consoles, there will be new blood to pick up the slack. PC has always and will always create new talent due to obvious reasons such as accessibility, open source software and low costs.

You're also giving far too much credit to Troika whose games were marred by bugs and questionable gameplay and design choices. All of their games yielded lukewarm reactions from both gamers and reviewers and none of their games have been close to semi-popular. PC is a much larger, but a much tougher market than the console market although I think Troika would go out of business even faster if they tried their luck on consoles. Scratch that, they probably wouldn't even been able to get going without selling their souls (and IP's) to a large publisher.

Irrational is a good example of a developer making great games without seeing commercial success, but Troika is not. But again, none of this is inherent to PC. Console indie devs have a much harder time keeping out of financial problems. That's why there's barely any of them at all.

[QUOTE="smerlus"]Headfirst developed two PC only games before they developed or planned on developing the Call of Cthulhu games. Every single game they had ever done or were going to do was on PC 5:5, only 3 were planned for Xbox 3:5... they were most definitely a PC developer. ( i confused headfirst with hip interactive, for the bankruptcy, the people that were to publish the Call of Cthulhu games.)UpInFlames

And they went out of business after releasing a console game. Are you missing my point on purpose or what? I simply provided two examples to illustrate that success is hardly guaranteed anywhere, so I really don't understand what's the point of pushing this any further.

And Oddworld Inhabitants was founded by a guy that had a high interest in movies so now they are making movies and plan on making a few games along with that (this was in an interview from 06/07)smerlus

Oddworld stopped making games not because Lanning's interest in movies prevailed, but because Stranger's Wrath was a commercial disaster.

I think your indie heavy PC market is a memory and doesn't apply to today's market. When you have companies that make semi popular games like Troika and Irrational dying out or getting swallowed up and going multiplatform as proof.

Your example of CD Projekt Red won't last that long. If you check out their hiring page, they've expressed interest in the past in hiring 360 and currently hiring PS3 programmers as has the developers of STALKER (they are now 360 certified and have the dev kits)smerlus

I'm not necessarily talking about PC-only indie devs. I fully count Valve in there as well, they're an indie dev that found great success on PC - much moreso than on consoles. But even if CD Projekt Red and GSC abandon PC in favor of consoles, there will be new blood to pick up the slack. PC has always and will always create new talent due to obvious reasons such as accessibility, open source software and low costs.

You're also giving far too much credit to Troika whose games were marred by bugs and questionable gameplay and design choices. All of their games yielded lukewarm reactions from both gamers and reviewers and none of their games have been close to semi-popular. PC is a much larger, but a much tougher market than the console market although I think Troika would go out of business even faster if they tried their luck on consoles. Scratch that, they probably wouldn't even been able to get going without selling their souls (and IP's) to a large publisher.

Irrational is a good example of a developer making great games without seeing commercial success, but Troika is not. But again, none of this is inherent to PC. Console indie devs have a much harder time keeping out of financial problems. That's why there's barely any of them at all.

Head first dropped two PC bombs first and went under 4 months after releasing their console game... that means they already had two feet in the grave and let us not forget that Call of Cthulhu was both a PC and Xbox game.

Your comments on Oddworld Inhabitant's is 100% poor speculation and the fact that they are quoted as making a couple of games of this upcoming movie is proof.

And again, Valve as an indie developer is a memory now. they are now a publishing powerhouse offering steam for a bunch of different companies as a way to get their products to the masses.

Also your new talent either going out of business or switching to multiplatform only further proves that the PC market can no longer sustain indie devs for any length of time due to piracy, a market that prefers sims, FPS, RTS and MMORPG's... so you're actually arguing in my favor. My argument is that MMORPG's, Mods and games with staying power mean less money going around in the PC market thus causing no name companies and indies to go out of business or go multiplatform and your counter point was "yes and more will come to take their place" ...the cycle only repeats itself.

Troika had a nice cult following with its games often ending up on lists of great RPG games and saying that it would have went under faster on console is once again useless speculation. the purpose of any business isn't to file for bankruptcy or pick a system where you're going to file for bankruptcy maybe a little later. That's like saying "My grandmother died this year but i'm just glad she doesn't live in Mexico where she probably would have died 3 years ago"

[QUOTE="sniper_basic"]This is interesting, actually. All I ever hear from my primarily PC gaming friends is that new piece of equipment they're saving up fo and tend to buy a major part about three times a year on average. I will admit this is my own life experience talking and it may just be something that's more of a local thing. I wonder if Washington State is more inclined to spend wildly on PCs than go by other means. I also hear that this "overclocking" stuff can ruin a computer pretty quickly, so maybe that's apart of it too. Again, this is all I've ever known about PC gaming I am a bit biased in that regard.UpInFlames

Your friends are extremist enthusiasts who like wasting money on stuff they don't need. They represent an extremely small portion of PC gamers - a portion which the uninformed are so hung upon. The reality is that the vast majority of PC gamers are probably the fussiest and most cost-conscious gamers out there - when it comes to both hardware and software.

Between the PC enthusiasts I personally know and the people I've met online through gaming have geared me into a belief of elitism that really hasn't had a lot of competition, but I will admit that this decision of mine is quite a few years old. I've always been one to have an open mind and re-evaluate a belief when it may have become outdated. Maybe it is time that I take another hard look at the PC gaming community and see how much it's changed as a whole in these few years from when I last checked it out.

If there's a few sites you can point me to that you feel represent the PC gaming scene today, leave a response or a PM. I feel that this debate has reached a standstill and that some research would definitely be required on my part if I wish to continue supporting my stance (or abandoning it completely).

Head first dropped two PC bombs first and went under 4 months after releasing their console game... that means they already had two feet in the grave and let us not forget that Call of Cthulhu was both a PC and Xbox game.smerlus

But they still managed to keep going after those couple of games and that's my point. The PC is the most inviting to small indie devs. The first game Headfirst released on consoles killed them immediately. The game came out on PC almost six months after it did on the Xbox which means it had no impact on Headfirst's demise as by that time, the studio already went under.

Your comments on Oddworld Inhabitant's is 100% poor speculation and the fact that they are quoted as making a couple of games of this upcoming movie is proof.smerlus

Is it not fact that Oddworld Inhabitants shut down their game studio due to Stranger's Wrath's underperformance? Which indicates that Oddworld's shift to film was a direct consequence of Stranger's commercial failure. How can you continue making games when you can't finance your game studio? You call it speculation, I call it common sense. Lanning said in 2006 that they were making a movie and a game simultaneously, but not one piece of info was released since then. We'll have to wait and see what really becomes of that.

And again, Valve as an indie developer is a memory now. they are now a publishing powerhouse offering steam for a bunch of different companies as a way to get their products to the masses.smerlus

Valve is not a publishing powerhouse because they don't publish anything but their own games and they didn't even do that before The Orange Box. Steam is a distribution service, a digital store, not a publisher. Valve is still a small indie dev with only 150 employees which self-funds all of their projects - as it always did. To take that away from them just because they're successful doesn't make any sense. Do indie devs have to go out of business to be considered indie?

Also your new talent either going out of business or switching to multiplatform only further proves that the PC market can no longer sustain indie devs for any length of time due to piracy, a market that prefers sims, FPS, RTS and MMORPG's... so you're actually arguing in my favor. My argument is that MMORPG's, Mods and games with staying power mean less money going around in the PC market thus causing no name companies and indies to go out of business or go multiplatform and your counter point was "yes and more will come to take their place" ...the cycle only repeats itself.smerlus

History shows that PC can not only sustain indie PC devs, but it can empower them in such a way where they outgrow the PC market. PC devs spreading to consoles is not an indication of a deminishing PC market, it is an indication of said developer's success and their craving for more success. If the PC market was so averse to indie devs, then how come many of them manage to take off in that same market?

Troika had a nice cult following with its games often ending up on lists of great RPG games and saying that it would have went under faster on console is once again useless speculation. the purpose of any business isn't to file for bankruptcy or pick a system where you're going to file for bankruptcy maybe a little later. That's like saying "My grandmother died this year but i'm just glad she doesn't live in Mexico where she probably would have died 3 years ago"smerlus

You like calling me out on speculation and in the same time you yourself provide speculation and half-truths such as acting that CD Projekt Red and GSC are definitely going to consoles when there is no announcement of any kind. Not only that, but both studios are currently making their second PC-only game.

Anyway, yes, it's speculation on my part and I never made it up to be anything more. Speculation based on previous trends.