Metro: Last Light cost merely "10% of the budget of its competitors"

Link.

Nothing in this missive should suggest that either 4A or I would like to see any change in the way the game itself has been received or reviewed by press or fans. I know 4A well enough to know that they demand to contest on a level playing field. This isn't golf, and they don't need or want a handicap. Their pride and skill demand that Last Light go head to head with competition on even terms, and I am sure they are happy with the response.

Let's be honest: 4A was never playing on a level field. The budget of Last Light is less than some of its competitors spend on cut scenes, a mere 10 percent of the budget of its biggest competitors. Yet it is lauded for its story and atmosphere.  It is built on a completely original and proprietary second-generation engine that competes with sequels that have stopped numbering themselves, with more engineers on their tech than 4A has on the entire project. Yet its tech chops are never in question.

GameIndustry International

I just started Metro today (it's real good!). I never would have guessed they were working with a much smaller budget. Stands against any other big-name game fine. Game still looks and plays fantastically. Makes you wonder how much could be saved by cutting back on the cutscene budget, or finding alternate means of storytelling for that matter.

Also of note: the studio worked under some horrid conditions. Crazy what they have to go through just to get dev-kits and PCs.

When 4A needed another dev kit, or high-end PC, or whatever, someone from 4A had to fly to the States and sneak it back to the Ukraine in a backpack lest it be "seized" at the border by thieving customs officials. After visiting the team I wanted to buy them Aeron office chairs, considered a fundamental human right in the west. There were no outlets in the Ukraine, and our only option was to pack a truck in Poland and try to find an "expediter" to help bribe its way down to Kiev. We gave up not because this tripled the cost, but because we realized that the wider Aeron chairs would require spreading out people and computers, which would lead to extra desks, and that ultimately would have required bigger offices. Yes, really.

I would like to see development costs lowered substantially, but obviously not at the sacrifice of good working conditions for the developers. Still, impressive what they were able to pull off given their situation. 

I can see that. Many of the level are just you walking down hallways with little worry about what the player can do there.

Very impressive, more developers need to follow suit and ditch worthless cutscenes and other contrivances.GodModeEnabled

Have you played the game? The game is mostly cutscenes and other contrivances

Have you played the game? The game is mostly cutscenes and other contrivanceswiouds

Haven't seen many cutscenes for the six hours I've put in so far. Been nothing but play since the first 30 minutes.

[QUOTE="wiouds"]Have you played the game? The game is mostly cutscenes and other contrivancesc_rake

Haven't seen many cutscenes for the six hours I've put in so far. Been nothing but play since the first 30 minutes.

They mostly do the in game cut scene where you have control of the player but you can just stand there and listen to other talk. Else, you walking down hallways with things happen as you move.

because they didnt dump millions on celebrity actors for voices and endless cgi trailers and ads

This game is real sweet.

Makes their DLC policy even more offensiveBlack_Knight_00

Agreed.

[QUOTE="GodModeEnabled"]Very impressive, more developers need to follow suit and ditch worthless cutscenes and other contrivances.wiouds

Have you played the game? The game is mostly cutscenes and other contrivances

Makes their DLC policy even more offensiveBlack_Knight_00

Yeah. It's unfortunate, because the game itself is really good.

[QUOTE="wiouds"]

[QUOTE="GodModeEnabled"]Very impressive, more developers need to follow suit and ditch worthless cutscenes and other contrivances.Jacanuk

Have you played the game? The game is mostly cutscenes and other contrivances

Try a game that I already beat?

[QUOTE="c_rake"]

[QUOTE="wiouds"]Have you played the game? The game is mostly cutscenes and other contrivanceswiouds

Haven't seen many cutscenes for the six hours I've put in so far. Been nothing but play since the first 30 minutes.

They mostly do the in game cut scene where you have control of the player but you can just stand there and listen to other talk. Else, you walking down hallways with things happen as you move.

That's...not really a cutscene.

[QUOTE="wiouds"]

[QUOTE="c_rake"]

Haven't seen many cutscenes for the six hours I've put in so far. Been nothing but play since the first 30 minutes.

Blueresident87

They mostly do the in game cut scene where you have control of the player but you can just stand there and listen to other talk. Else, you walking down hallways with things happen as you move.

That's...not really a cutscene.

They are not really game play so what are they? They fit in with cut scene more than anything else.

[QUOTE="c_rake"]

[QUOTE="wiouds"]Have you played the game? The game is mostly cutscenes and other contrivanceswiouds

Haven't seen many cutscenes for the six hours I've put in so far. Been nothing but play since the first 30 minutes.

They mostly do the in game cut scene where you have control of the player but you can just stand there and listen to other talk. Else, you walking down hallways with things happen as you move.

Cool looks awesome!

This is the way to go, and it's what makes games good.

No real gamers would like to go through pointless cutscenes and QTEs.

[QUOTE="GodModeEnabled"]Very impressive, more developers need to follow suit and ditch worthless cutscenes and other contrivances.wiouds

Have you played the game? The game is mostly cutscenes and other contrivances

[QUOTE="wiouds"]

[QUOTE="c_rake"]

Haven't seen many cutscenes for the six hours I've put in so far. Been nothing but play since the first 30 minutes.

chaplainDMK

They mostly do the in game cut scene where you have control of the player but you can just stand there and listen to other talk. Else, you walking down hallways with things happen as you move.

In game or pre-rendered  are the same but for the method they are created so I call them both cut scenes.

I do not believe that in game or pre-rendered cut scene cost as much as people say they do. I belive that game play is what cost the game companies more. There is not much to Metro Last Light's game play.

[QUOTE="chaplainDMK"][QUOTE="wiouds"]

They mostly do the in game cut scene where you have control of the player but you can just stand there and listen to other talk. Else, you walking down hallways with things happen as you move.

wiouds

In game or pre-rendered  are the same but for the method they are created so I call them both cut scenes.

I do not believe that in game or pre-rendered cut scene cost as much as people say they do. I belive that game play is what cost the game companies more. There is not much to Metro Last Light's game play.

Also todays graphics suck up alot of dev time, models need to have higher and higher poly counts, more detailed textures, bumpmaps etc.. 10 years or so ago whole characters had a poly count comparable to what a single characters arm has today. 

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]Makes their DLC policy even more offensivec_rake

Yeah. It's unfortunate, because the game itself is really good.

[QUOTE="wiouds"]

[QUOTE="chaplainDMK"] That's neither a cutscene, nor does it cost much. The CGI cutscenes done out of engine are what drives the budgets up because they are ultra high poly count with massive textures that take alot of time to render. Plus they need very good voice acting to really work. In-game cutscenes can use more basic voice acting and don't need to have such high quality animations or anything really. Even less if they are just talking scenes. chaplainDMK

In game or pre-rendered  are the same but for the method they are created so I call them both cut scenes.

I do not believe that in game or pre-rendered cut scene cost as much as people say they do. I belive that game play is what cost the game companies more. There is not much to Metro Last Light's game play.

Also todays graphics suck up alot of dev time, models need to have higher and higher poly counts, more detailed textures, bumpmaps etc.. 10 years or so ago whole characters had a poly count comparable to what a single characters arm has today. 

Have you ever coded a complex program?

Coding the basic of the program is easy. Making sure the program works at an acceptable level take time. I find it hard that there would be complete AI code that matches perfectly to the custom built area of you game. The time needed is increase exponentially as you add more to it.

Are you going to tell me that spend just as much time debugging a cat scene where you are standing on a elevator while others talk cost as much as a part where you are fighting a large number of AI that are coming from a number of different direction.

These are just my thoughts since neither of us can prove anything. Also, the argument that CGI cut scene are most costly because many believe it I does is a logical fallacy.  

Probably due primarily to lower wages and costs of living (including renting commercial space).

[QUOTE="chaplainDMK"]

[QUOTE="wiouds"]

In game or pre-rendered  are the same but for the method they are created so I call them both cut scenes.

I do not believe that in game or pre-rendered cut scene cost as much as people say they do. I belive that game play is what cost the game companies more. There is not much to Metro Last Light's game play.

wiouds

Also todays graphics suck up alot of dev time, models need to have higher and higher poly counts, more detailed textures, bumpmaps etc.. 10 years or so ago whole characters had a poly count comparable to what a single characters arm has today. 

Have you ever coded a complex program?

Coding the basic of the program is easy. Making sure the program works at an acceptable level take time. I find it hard that there would be complete AI code that matches perfectly to the custom built area of you game. The time needed is increase exponentially as you add more to it.

Are you going to tell me that spend just as much time debugging a cat scene where you are standing on a elevator while others talk cost as much as a part where you are fighting a large number of AI that are coming from a number of different direction.

These are just my thoughts since neither of us can prove anything. Also, the argument that CGI cut scene are most costly because many believe it I does is a logical fallacy.  

[QUOTE="wiouds"]

[QUOTE="chaplainDMK"] What in game play exactly costs much? It's all bunched under development time by the dev team. CGI pre-rendered cutscenes take a massive amount of time or are done by outside studios that cost a lot. Making the actual structure of the game costs next to nothing, it's not much different from what was being done since back in the 90s. What really costs is licenses for various engines if they are not done in-studio (game engines, physics engines, animation engines), licenses for various material (literature, music, in-game items etc.), voice acting, motion capture, advertisement, CGI trailers etc. etc.. Hell, today you have studios bringing in "fabled writers" to make stories (that end up being stupider than the ones made up by game devs). Making "game-play" is the least expensive element of a game.

Also todays graphics suck up alot of dev time, models need to have higher and higher poly counts, more detailed textures, bumpmaps etc.. 10 years or so ago whole characters had a poly count comparable to what a single characters arm has today. 

chaplainDMK

Have you ever coded a complex program?

Coding the basic of the program is easy. Making sure the program works at an acceptable level take time. I find it hard that there would be complete AI code that matches perfectly to the custom built area of you game. The time needed is increase exponentially as you add more to it.

Are you going to tell me that spend just as much time debugging a cat scene where you are standing on a elevator while others talk cost as much as a part where you are fighting a large number of AI that are coming from a number of different direction.

These are just my thoughts since neither of us can prove anything. Also, the argument that CGI cut scene are most costly because many believe it I does is a logical fallacy.  

Sure some of the basic ideals are mostly the same but there are a huge amount that have been changed. As I said the basic part of coding is easy, but getting everything to work the way you want it to that is hard. The basic ideals of what make a good movie have not change in an even longer time but does not make movie cheaper to make.

It not just program but level design and staging and level progresses also take time.

I find it hard to believe that large part of the a game developed budget is to those things.  I am sure the reduce amount of game play added to that lower cost.

I can see that. Many of the level are just you walking down hallways with little worry about what the player can do there.

wiouds

So is every other linear, paint by numbers shooter that costs 10 times as much to make. 

The style of game is not the reason it was cheap to make.

[QUOTE="c_rake"]

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]Makes their DLC policy even more offensiveBlack_Knight_00

Yeah. It's unfortunate, because the game itself is really good.

Do keep in mind, it wasn't  their  policy. 4A had nothing to do with making Ranger Mode DLC. That was THQ's decision, which was made under pressure from retailers, who always want games to have pre-order incentives, because it's the retailers who really win when people preorder en masse. After THQ went bankrupt, and Deep Silver bought the rights,  they  even tried to get out of that, and make Ranger Mode standard, but they were legally obligated to uphold the promises that THQ had made to retailers.

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"][QUOTE="c_rake"]

Yeah. It's unfortunate, because the game itself is really good.

the_bi99man

Do keep in mind, it wasn't  their  policy. 4A had nothing to do with making Ranger Mode DLC. That was THQ's decision, which was made under pressure from retailers, who always want games to have pre-order incentives, because it's the retailers who really win when people preorder en masse. After THQ went bankrupt, and Deep Silver bought the rights,  they  even tried to get out of that, and make Ranger Mode standard, but they were legally obligated to uphold the promises that THQ had made to retailers.

After all, the final consumer doesn't care about our conditions. And this is right. We need no indulgence.Prohkorov

so selling a million would actually be a good thing? lol hope they do good, the game looks really awesome

[QUOTE="wiouds"]

I can see that. Many of the level are just you walking down hallways with little worry about what the player can do there.

the_bi99man

So is every other linear, paint by numbers shooter that costs 10 times as much to make. 

The style of game is not the reason it was cheap to make.

The more you limit the players the less you need to worry about. There is a large amount of just stand or walking a narrow path around without your gun. I would say it outnumber the true game play moments. For those parts, you do not need to worry about programming, level design or staging from a game play point of view.

Most current games are no where as linear as or standered as many sterotyped them to be.

[QUOTE="Blueresident87"]

[QUOTE="wiouds"]

They mostly do the in game cut scene where you have control of the player but you can just stand there and listen to other talk. Else, you walking down hallways with things happen as you move.

wiouds

That's...not really a cutscene.

They are not really game play so what are they? They fit in with cut scene more than anything else.

Yeah, that's most likely as you say. Still, I believe the only way we have to combat such malpractices is to "vote with our wallets," as they say. The only way a company will ever back down on a business strategy is when that strategy is making them lose money.Black_Knight_00

I philosophically agree, but the real tragedy here is that the company bent on such malpractices is gone and those who are left and had nothing to do with it are paying the price.

Anyway, fascinating story. We really need to hear more of these developer exposition stories.

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]Yeah, that's most likely as you say. Still, I believe the only way we have to combat such malpractices is to "vote with our wallets," as they say. The only way a company will ever back down on a business strategy is when that strategy is making them lose money.UpInFlames

I philosophically agree, but the real tragedy here is that the company bent on such malpractices is gone and those who are left and had nothing to do with it are paying the price.

Anyway, fascinating story. We really need to hear more of these developer exposition stories.

Good to hear such a good game can be produced on such a budget though the working conditions are unfortunate. Anyone else really impressed with the AI? I've had some of the best, most tense firefights in this game than I've had in any other in quite a while. They're exhilirating. MirkoS77

I found them to be basic and not the the fire fights not that good.