How can Square-Enix so royally screw up?

Its amazing to me how a company like Square-Enix, a junction of some of the greatest gaming companies ever can find itself in the situation it is now in. As a combo of Eidos, Square, Enix, along with smaller subsidiaries, they have experience with almost every major game console and almost every genre of game. If you asked me two years ago, I would have told you that they had developing and marketing down. I think the some of their problems can ultimatly be traced back to their development process and business model.

I read an interesting article somewhere that asked "How long does it take to make a good game?" This is a highly valid quetion. Since Final Fantasy X, development rates have become staggeringly long. Final Fantasy XII still holds the world record!! They say they are going to speed them up and I believe them, but I dont even think that iswhat their problem is. Square's biggest issue in my mind, is branching out each franshise further than where it could naturally go. Final Fantasy is one of the biggest gaming names EVER. Every game in the mains eries sells a boatload of copies in Japan, Northa America, and even Europe. Their issue is spanding far too much time and money in spin-offs and nameless RPG's.

Right now, the projects fans demand the most the following:

1) Final Fantasy VII remake (PS3)

2) Final Fantasy Versus XIII (PS3)

3) Kingdom Hearts III (PS3)

4) Final Fantasy V and VI remake (3DS/PSP/NGP)

If Square had stuck with its most profitable business model from 1997-2002, we would likely have seen all of these projects by now. Yet for some reason, Square-Enix keeps handing us what we dont want. First, it made a Final Fantasy mocie that was not even relted to the franchise. Then, althoug it did produce a decent MMO (FFXI), before anyone else is ready, they throw out Final Fantasy XIV, the worst recieved MMO in history. The Produce the Last Remnant, a time and money sink, End of Eternity, time and money sink, and finally, the give us The Compilation of Final Fantasy VII. Although I greatly enjoyed Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus was completely unnecesary!! Even Advent Children, we just didnt even really want it.

In any entertainment business, the most important lesson anyone learns is to give the audience/buyer what they want. Square-Enix is entirely capable of giving their fans everything they want yet for some reason, they dont. The question of why boggles my mind and Im curious if any of you can have an answer 4 it.

What do you think? Why is Square-Enix being unreasonable?

You have a point. There's been numerous new ips and sequels to games nobody really wanted (Kane & Lynch, Front mission evolved) but the games people really want aren't being made. Although Just Cause 2 and Batman: Arkham Asylum were nice surprises.

After the big loss they had I wouldn't be surprised if SE starts to make stuff people actually want ... They try to hard to be western and screw up fantastic franchises like Front Mission :S

some of us want Chrono Break, or a Chrono Saga of some kind. >.>Allicrombie

Or an ACTUAL sequel to Chrono Trigger, not what we got as Chrono Cross, a very disappointing game, with the exception of the soundtrack being absolutely brilliant.

I think if they remade three games, they'd be criticised for their lack of originality, lack of direction and cashing in.

I think if they remade three games, they'd be criticised for their lack of originality, lack of direction and cashing in.

LordRork

Doesn't matter what they do, for good or bad. People will continue to praise what they do, while others will criticize it. It never ends.

I would love to see new IPs from Square rather than sequels, spin offs, and remake.

I would love to see new IPs from Square rather than sequels, spin offs, and remake.

jasonharris48

That could be said for absolutely every single dev. out there.

People have been pining for remakes of VI-VIII, and while there have been a few VI remakes we have yet to hear anything about VII or VIII. Honestly I don't think it will ever happen. Completely remastering over forty hours of game, enhancing graphics, adding the voice acting people whine about not having, and re-mastering the motion capture videos would take even longer than the two and a half years the origianl games took in development. VII was so big and so expansive, that it wouldn't make sense to try to remake them completely. Also, if they make any changes, no matter how positive they are, fans will likely revolt at the concept of altering their favorite game.

[QUOTE="jasonharris48"]

I would love to see new IPs from Square rather than sequels, spin offs, and remake.

Lucianu

That could be said for absolutely every single dev. out there.

People have been pining for remakes of VI-VIII, and while there have been a few VI remakes we have yet to hear anything about VII or VIII. Honestly I don't think it will ever happen. Completely remastering over forty hours of game, enhancing graphics, adding the voice acting people whine about not having, and re-mastering the motion capture videos would take even longer than the two and a half years the origianl games took in development. VII was so big and so expansive, that it wouldn't make sense to try to remake them completely. Also, if they make any changes, no matter how positive they are, fans will likely revolt at the concept of altering their favorite game.

mariomaster16

Which is why when you have these remakes, at least you have the best of both worlds. If the remake isn't satisfactory, there's the original, but if there's something missing that you like from the remake that the original doesn't have, remake's OK too. So if the fans revolt against it, then they don't have to buy it. They can just stick with the original and go with that.

[QUOTE="Lucianu"]

[QUOTE="jasonharris48"]

I would love to see new IPs from Square rather than sequels, spin offs, and remake.

jasonharris48

That could be said for absolutely every single dev. out there.

I agree with you. Kingdom Hearts 3 better come out before the world ends.

[QUOTE="LordRork"]

I think if they remade three games, they'd be criticised for their lack of originality, lack of direction and cashing in.

Metamania

Doesn't matter what they do, for good or bad. People will continue to praise what they do, while others will criticize it. It never ends.

so true, i bet if they actually made the remakes then people will find a reason to cry about them

It seam that they have not room to be allow to be something that is less than perfect.

They make a character that some do not like then they attack the game. A WRPG character that is just like that character from Square Enix and they will then defend that WRPG character as new and good.

When Square Enix is innovative and no one pay any attention as they get called not being innovative. Other company take what they did and they get praised for being innovative for coming up with a system that no one else made.

[QUOTE="Allicrombie"]some of us want Chrono Break, or a Chrono Saga of some kind. >.>Metamania

Or an ACTUAL sequel to Chrono Trigger, not what we got as Chrono Cross, a very disappointing game, with the exception of the soundtrack being absolutely brilliant.

What?! Did you just call Chrono Cross a dissapointing game? :O

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

[QUOTE="Allicrombie"]some of us want Chrono Break, or a Chrono Saga of some kind. >.>KillerJuan77

Or an ACTUAL sequel to Chrono Trigger, not what we got as Chrono Cross, a very disappointing game, with the exception of the soundtrack being absolutely brilliant.

What?! Did you just call Chrono Cross a dissapointing game? :O

Yes, you read correctly. I did call Chrono Cross a disappointing game.

I just wish they;d stop announcing and working on so many different games. It would make they're lives easier and make it so they could release other games earlier if they just slowed down a bit.

[QUOTE="KillerJuan77"]

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

Or an ACTUAL sequel to Chrono Trigger, not what we got as Chrono Cross, a very disappointing game, with the exception of the soundtrack being absolutely brilliant.

Metamania

What?! Did you just call Chrono Cross a dissapointing game? :O

Yes, you read correctly. I did call Chrono Cross a disappointing game.

i dont know what your standards are but chrono cross was an amazing game in my book

remakes i would love:

chrono cross/trigger, xenogears and ff vi/vii, with that i bet they would double their earnings

[QUOTE="mariomaster16"]

People have been pining for remakes of VI-VIII, and while there have been a few VI remakes we have yet to hear anything about VII or VIII. Honestly I don't think it will ever happen. Completely remastering over forty hours of game, enhancing graphics, adding the voice acting people whine about not having, and re-mastering the motion capture videos would take even longer than the two and a half years the origianl games took in development. VII was so big and so expansive, that it wouldn't make sense to try to remake them completely. Also, if they make any changes, no matter how positive they are, fans will likely revolt at the concept of altering their favorite game.

Metamania

Which is why when you have these remakes, at least you have the best of both worlds. If the remake isn't satisfactory, there's the original, but if there's something missing that you like from the remake that the original doesn't have, remake's OK too. So if the fans revolt against it, then they don't have to buy it. They can just stick with the original and go with that.

I don't mean to be pessimistic, but, the generation(s) that really want to see a FF VII remake tend to get upset over, what they see as masterpieces, get "ruined," that is, changed. And while it would sell well, SE would be treading thin ice the entire time, in order to please enough people to make a reasonable profit and retain fans.

Square's greatest weakness has always been its greatest strength. Square stretches itself in developing new games, under different genres and if you ask me has succeeded in making great games in almost every area they try to tackle. But this is also the reason why they fail, they don't have console sales to back on in order to take such a loss like Nintendo or Microsoft can... so we are stuck with the same old thing Square is famous for doing... making games/etc regardless of whether or not it is financially sound.

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

[QUOTE="mariomaster16"]

People have been pining for remakes of VI-VIII, and while there have been a few VI remakes we have yet to hear anything about VII or VIII. Honestly I don't think it will ever happen. Completely remastering over forty hours of game, enhancing graphics, adding the voice acting people whine about not having, and re-mastering the motion capture videos would take even longer than the two and a half years the origianl games took in development. VII was so big and so expansive, that it wouldn't make sense to try to remake them completely. Also, if they make any changes, no matter how positive they are, fans will likely revolt at the concept of altering their favorite game.

mariomaster16

Which is why when you have these remakes, at least you have the best of both worlds. If the remake isn't satisfactory, there's the original, but if there's something missing that you like from the remake that the original doesn't have, remake's OK too. So if the fans revolt against it, then they don't have to buy it. They can just stick with the original and go with that.

I don't mean to be pessimistic, but, the generation(s) that really want to see a FF VII remake tend to get upset over, what they see as masterpieces, get "ruined," that is, changed. And while it would sell well, SE would be treading thin ice the entire time, in order to please enough people to make a reasonable profit and retain fans.

I think they should make more original IPs. Just go ahead and release KH III because all the KH spinoffs are unnecessary for example like KH Recoded was not necessary. And how about putting the next main DQ game on the PS3 instead of Wii, that would make more sense. Of course I want to see FF VS XIII at E3.

Square Enix is either going to make good games or its not. They need to roll out Final Fantasy Versus XIII and Final Fantasy XIII-2 before the end of 2012. After this, they should assign part of the Final Fantasy XIII team to remake Final Fantasy VII while the rest consider how to make a good FInal Fantasy XV. Also, why have they not released every psone title they have on PSN? Final Fantasy VII on PSone Classics was the PSN best selling game ever!! They need to roll out the classic FF's (name V and VI) along with some of their Dragon Quest games. If they wanted easy money, they should release Final Fantasy III on PSP

I think they should make more original IPs. Just go ahead and release KH III because all the KH spinoffs are unnecessary for example like KH Recoded was not necessary. And how about putting the next main DQ game on the PS3 instead of Wii, that would make more sense. Of course I want to see FF VS XIII at E3.

HaloPimp978

Dragon Quest and Nintendo have had a very long relationship. Even though there were a few on PS2, Nintendo has seen the most DQ titles. It makes sense to continue the tradition, plus after all the recent DS games, every DQ game from 1-9 has been made on a Nintendo system. Putting the next, big installment on Wii will probably be more benificial for all those involved. It will be a new installment from SE, and it will be one of the Wii's final great games.

It's very typical really - when a company gets to be a certain size, they stop listening to the customer and start listening to a bunch of professional business managers who have no real interest in or connection to the products being sold. They'd run a ball bearing factory or a restaurant chain exactly the same way that they run a video game publishing firm.

[QUOTE="HaloPimp978"]

I think they should make more original IPs. Just go ahead and release KH III because all the KH spinoffs are unnecessary for example like KH Recoded was not necessary. And how about putting the next main DQ game on the PS3 instead of Wii, that would make more sense. Of course I want to see FF VS XIII at E3.

mariomaster16

Dragon Quest and Nintendo have had a very long relationship. Even though there were a few on PS2, Nintendo has seen the most DQ titles. It makes sense to continue the tradition, plus after all the recent DS games, every DQ game from 1-9 has been made on a Nintendo system. Putting the next, big installment on Wii will probably be more benificial for all those involved. It will be a new installment from SE, and it will be one of the Wii's final great games.

The one game that I've had extensive time with in the DQ series was DQVIII and I enjoyed it a lot. But if you wanted to get anywhere, you had to grind a lot, so it sucked that you had to sit there, for a good couple of hours, and fight until you got the right levels that you needed before fighting that one boss that gave you trouble. I think, for most of the DQ games, that would be the case - LOTS AND LOTS of grinding. :lol:

some of us want Chrono Break, or a Chrono Saga of some kind. >.>Allicrombie

It's very typical really - when a company gets to be a certain size, they stop listening to the customer and start listening to a bunch of professional business managers who have no real interest in or connection to the products being sold. They'd run a ball bearing factory or a restaurant chain exactly the same way that they run a video game publishing firm.

Jackc8

I find they listen too much to other. A group complain about FF games not changing enough so they change it to FF12 then a group complain about that. They want to make games that as many will like as they can and try to listen them.

They used to pop out new and innovative projects aswell, i miss vagrant story... I'm curious wether it's the fusion from back than that diminished the quality of the games. They screwed up alot of games after FFX.rastotm

nah the games are still good, i think people got used to very high standards back then, i mean: FF VII, xenogears, chrono cross, vagrant story, and many excellent games came out in what, 2 years? i was surprised so many good games from the same dev in so short time

I would love to see new IPs from Square

jasonharris48

They tried, they really, really tried. Unfortunately, all of them were ******* terrible.

[QUOTE="mariomaster16"]

[QUOTE="HaloPimp978"]

I think they should make more original IPs. Just go ahead and release KH III because all the KH spinoffs are unnecessary for example like KH Recoded was not necessary. And how about putting the next main DQ game on the PS3 instead of Wii, that would make more sense. Of course I want to see FF VS XIII at E3.

Metamania

Dragon Quest and Nintendo have had a very long relationship. Even though there were a few on PS2, Nintendo has seen the most DQ titles. It makes sense to continue the tradition, plus after all the recent DS games, every DQ game from 1-9 has been made on a Nintendo system. Putting the next, big installment on Wii will probably be more benificial for all those involved. It will be a new installment from SE, and it will be one of the Wii's final great games.

The one game that I've had extensive time with in the DQ series was DQVIII and I enjoyed it a lot. But if you wanted to get anywhere, you had to grind a lot, so it sucked that you had to sit there, for a good couple of hours, and fight until you got the right levels that you needed before fighting that one boss that gave you trouble. I think, for most of the DQ games, that would be the case - LOTS AND LOTS of grinding. :lol:

Yeah, that's been a staple of DQ games since the third or fourth game, lots of grinding. Though there is some payoff. IN DQ III, you gain better spells if you fight enemies that are, almost, too strong for you. And if you get high enough level you can get some really awesome abilities, and since enemies are leveled, the last boss is still hard, but you have some sweet looking attacks to kill him with. I think the same is true of most the games after that.

[QUOTE="KillerJuan77"]

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

Or an ACTUAL sequel to Chrono Trigger, not what we got as Chrono Cross, a very disappointing game, with the exception of the soundtrack being absolutely brilliant.

Metamania

What?! Did you just call Chrono Cross a dissapointing game? :O

Yes, you read correctly. I did call Chrono Cross a disappointing game.

[QUOTE="Metamania"][QUOTE="KillerJuan77"]What?! Did you just call Chrono Cross a dissapointing game? :OOilers99

[QUOTE="Oilers99"][QUOTE="Metamania"]Yes, you read correctly. I did call Chrono Cross a disappointing game.QuistisTrepe_

[QUOTE="Oilers99"][QUOTE="Metamania"]Yes, you read correctly. I did call Chrono Cross a disappointing game.QuistisTrepe_

i wonder why its got so many great scores everywhere by reviewers and gamers alike.

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

[QUOTE="KillerJuan77"]

What?! Did you just call Chrono Cross a dissapointing game? :O

Oilers99

Yes, you read correctly. I did call Chrono Cross a disappointing game.

When I played Chrono Cross, it was unfortunately not what I had in mind. In fact, what I was had in mind was them sticking to the same script. Nothing needed to be changed, because Chrono Trigger was perfect the way it is. It had an awesome battle system, the difficulty ramps up as it gets harder and harder, the cast of characters and story worked brilliantly with each other, the music was flawless, and there was an insane amount of replay value! My time with Chrono Cross killed it for me. I got myself at least halfway through the game before I completely lost interest...the battle system wasn't great, I wasn't happy with the characters (I remember you could have up to more than 100 characters in the game and only a few were ever important to the game...most of them were very unncesssary!), and the world itself felt completely different. Yes, I know, a sequel is suppoesd to be a different game and all, but not what I had in mind for Chrono Cross. The only great thing about Chrono Cross was the amazing soundtrack, I'll give them that. But Chrono Cross was not a satisfying gaming experience for me.

[QUOTE="Oilers99"][QUOTE="Metamania"]

Yes, you read correctly. I did call Chrono Cross a disappointing game.

Metamania

When I played Chrono Cross, it was unfortunately not what I had in mind. In fact, what I was had in mind was them sticking to the same script. Nothing needed to be changed, because Chrono Trigger was perfect the way it is. It had an awesome battle system, the difficulty ramps up as it gets harder and harder, the cast of characters and story worked brilliantly with each other, the music was flawless, and there was an insane amount of replay value! My time with Chrono Cross killed it for me. I got myself at least halfway through the game before I completely lost interest...the battle system wasn't great, I wasn't happy with the characters (I remember you could have up to more than 100 characters in the game and only a few were ever important to the game...most of them were very unncesssary!), and the world itself felt completely different. Yes, I know, a sequel is suppoesd to be a different game and all, but not what I had in mind for Chrono Cross. The only great thing about Chrono Cross was the amazing soundtrack, I'll give them that. But Chrono Cross was not a satisfying gaming experience for me.

I still haven't played Chrono Cross. I loved the first game so much I was kind of afraid it would ruin it for me. I've heard some really mixed reviews. People either love it, or hate it; I haven't seen much in between.

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

[QUOTE="Oilers99"] Disappointing in that it actually had gameplay, as opposed to its predecessor?mariomaster16

When I played Chrono Cross, it was unfortunately not what I had in mind. In fact, what I was had in mind was them sticking to the same script. Nothing needed to be changed, because Chrono Trigger was perfect the way it is. It had an awesome battle system, the difficulty ramps up as it gets harder and harder, the cast of characters and story worked brilliantly with each other, the music was flawless, and there was an insane amount of replay value! My time with Chrono Cross killed it for me. I got myself at least halfway through the game before I completely lost interest...the battle system wasn't great, I wasn't happy with the characters (I remember you could have up to more than 100 characters in the game and only a few were ever important to the game...most of them were very unncesssary!), and the world itself felt completely different. Yes, I know, a sequel is suppoesd to be a different game and all, but not what I had in mind for Chrono Cross. The only great thing about Chrono Cross was the amazing soundtrack, I'll give them that. But Chrono Cross was not a satisfying gaming experience for me.

I still haven't played Chrono Cross. I loved the first game so much I was kind of afraid it would ruin it for me. I've heard some really mixed reviews. People either love it, or hate it; I haven't seen much in between.

Well, the majority of critics loved it and the majority of fans that I've spoken to or read posts on various forums all claim that Chrono Cross is awesome. So I guess I'm in the minority for not liking it as much. And yeah, people do love or hate Chrono Cross, but it really depends on who you ask about it.

[QUOTE="QuistisTrepe_"]

[QUOTE="Oilers99"]

Disappointing in that it actually had gameplay, as opposed to its predecessor?Krelian-co

i wonder why its got so many great scores everywhere by reviewers and gamers alike.

Just read the review here at Gamespot. That is the kind of garbage I'd expect to read on some fanboy's blog, not a professional game review.

Square's current business model from what I can tell is to pour all their money into a pair of games at any given time, and pay for that by milking the fans with spinoffs and remakes, all of which require a fraction of the cost.

They are a business, after all, so I won't bash them for cutting corners to make a buck. I only wish they'd look beyond Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts as IPs to milk. They have an extensive backlog of original IPs, many of which are sitting on the shelf catching dust. Why not go back and compile them for rereleases? I applaud them for giving us the better part of their PSX library through PSN, but there's still a few of the games missing on the store. I cannot imagine ports in this manner cost them too much to release.

As for the other games, they don't have to go the extra mile all the time with all out remakes (as they did with the SaGa series on DS, a series which I lament will never see our shores). Collect a few of their SNES gems and put them all into a single cart with updated translations ala Chrono Trigger. I'm certain they would see some sales.

Then again, I'm no businessman. Just a gamer wishing upon a corporate giant for sweet scraps from yesteryear.

[QUOTE="Krelian-co"]

[QUOTE="QuistisTrepe_"]

CC had gameplay all right. Incoherent and shoddy gameplay with a plot to match.

QuistisTrepe_

i wonder why its got so many great scores everywhere by reviewers and gamers alike.

Just read the review here at Gamespot. That is the kind of garbage I'd expect to read on some fanboy's blog, not a professional game review.

nothing wrong with it, the reviwer enjoyed a game you dont like, get over it, when most of the people like it and it has a 9.3 user score from 7.400 player reviews, its because its a success, as much as you dont like it.

[QUOTE="jasonharris48"]

I would love to see new IPs from Square

They tried, they really, really tried. Unfortunately, all of them were ******* terrible.

[QUOTE="Oilers99"][QUOTE="Metamania"]

Yes, you read correctly. I did call Chrono Cross a disappointing game.

When I played Chrono Cross, it was unfortunately not what I had in mind. In fact, what I was had in mind was them sticking to the same script. Nothing needed to be changed, because Chrono Trigger was perfect the way it is. It had an awesome battle system, the difficulty ramps up as it gets harder and harder, the cast of characters and story worked brilliantly with each other, the music was flawless, and there was an insane amount of replay value! My time with Chrono Cross killed it for me. I got myself at least halfway through the game before I completely lost interest...the battle system wasn't great, I wasn't happy with the characters (I remember you could have up to more than 100 characters in the game and only a few were ever important to the game...most of them were very unncesssary!), and the world itself felt completely different. Yes, I know, a sequel is suppoesd to be a different game and all, but not what I had in mind for Chrono Cross. The only great thing about Chrono Cross was the amazing soundtrack, I'll give them that. But Chrono Cross was not a satisfying gaming experience for me.

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

[QUOTE="Oilers99"] Disappointing in that it actually had gameplay, as opposed to its predecessor?D3dr0_0

When I played Chrono Cross, it was unfortunately not what I had in mind. In fact, what I was had in mind was them sticking to the same script. Nothing needed to be changed, because Chrono Trigger was perfect the way it is. It had an awesome battle system, the difficulty ramps up as it gets harder and harder, the cast of characters and story worked brilliantly with each other, the music was flawless, and there was an insane amount of replay value! My time with Chrono Cross killed it for me. I got myself at least halfway through the game before I completely lost interest...the battle system wasn't great, I wasn't happy with the characters (I remember you could have up to more than 100 characters in the game and only a few were ever important to the game...most of them were very unncesssary!), and the world itself felt completely different. Yes, I know, a sequel is suppoesd to be a different game and all, but not what I had in mind for Chrono Cross. The only great thing about Chrono Cross was the amazing soundtrack, I'll give them that. But Chrono Cross was not a satisfying gaming experience for me.