What makes a good FF villain?

A good villain needs to be one that you can both despise and care for.  They have to be strong and terrifying but there weakness should be clear.  But even though that weakness is clear, the way to use it against them must be seen as the greatest risk.  If the villain is ruthless, but you can understand them, then they will last.  But if they are to simplistic, then they will bore the audience.  They can be a hero gone wrong and should mirror the hero that they face off against, sharing a key amount of characteristics.  If the villain shares these key characteristics with the hero, it will make it that much harder for the hero to face them.  Because of this similarity, the hero will almost project him/herself into the villain and make it a battle not so much between two different people but between the hero and his/herself...an outward-inner struggle.  That's what I think...

Thoughts?

Don't forget that they have to look cool. Otherwise Sephiroth is just an average Final Fantasy villain.

They do have to be relevant villains. They can't be like Ultimecia from VIII, who just sort of shows up and is the villain. We don't even see her until the very end.

No one ever said sephiroth was a fanboy villian whan 7 had just came out, the only reason everyone downs seph slightly is becuase of the way 7s story has been derasticaly drawn out over these past years. In simple fact he has what it took, and it made perfe3ct sense. im not going to say hes perfect though.

I think a villian that is insane or maniacal is a slight turn down, really thin k about it. The easiest way to make a truly evil villian is to simply give him those characterists, that way u can blame the plot that he has on it. Its a cop out if i must say. True villain creation finds its greatest challange when u have to give him a motive, or feelings and a backround rather than him just being insane with power to fufil his goal of world control. a tragic hero is an excelent ex. An enemy u can understand and feel there agony as to why there are doing what there doing. Looking cool and/or wielding a awsome wepon is not salvation. This is ware i stand as far as great villians

Sidney lasserot -VS  even though he wasent the TRUE villain he remains up there as one of the best

Guildstern - VS  the main villian mellow, calm and had direction with complete sense of himself until the very end

Delita Hyral - FFT by far one of the best, its still argued that he wasent a villian, but antagonist, definetly

Lynx - CC  dont  need words for this one

If any have villians they like or dislike post, for the sake of debate

I can't say that Sephitoth was a perfect villain.  I know a lot of people love him, but that's kinda fanboyish.  He was a complete badass and I know that attracts a lot of fans.  I think above said it best. You have to care about the villain too, not just completely hate them.  I think thats what makes a good villain a great villain.WieldsTokijin

Brutality? World domination? Killing-maniac? What's your opinion?Fantasy_Gamer

Kefka=the villain you love to hate.

Sphiroth=the villain that you kind of hate but you really don't cuz he's soo damn cool

If u hate the villain it really gives you the motivation, but its also cool when you feel like: "is this guy really that bad", or "why do I have to kill him"?. Villains you can feel a tad bit of sympathy for is also cool (ex. Kuja)

Kefka=the villain you love to hate.

Sphiroth=the villain that you kind of hate but you really don't cuz he's soo damn cool

If u hate the villain it really gives you the motivation, but its also cool when you feel like: "is this guy really that bad", or "why do I have to kill him"?. Villains you can feel a tad bit of sympathy for is also cool (ex. Kuja)

chaosmakerX

[QUOTE="Fantasy_Gamer"]Brutality? World domination? Killing-maniac? What's your opinion?bluclwd

[QUOTE="bluclwd"][QUOTE="Fantasy_Gamer"]Brutality? World domination? Killing-maniac? What's your opinion?fs_metal

Sephiroth is a BAMF! Sorry...TheFrontman04

Now, I hav to agree with a lo of the points made. Villains can sometimes be harder to construct than the hero, as evil oesnt really hav many rules does it? Im gonna agree that Sephiroth was an out standing villain, a man who was good to a point, then when he discovered who he really was, a sever God Complex took over him, he wasnt insane perse, he just knew, or thought it was his destiny to destroy everything and rebuild it in Jenovas image......he was ruthless and very, very dangerous but he was smart too, he played with Cloud til th very end, because he could. That was true evil, but he eas not perfect and not to everyones tastes. In FF8 there is a lot of crossfire about the "real" villain, and IMO, and its just my IMO, Siefer was Squalls villain, but here is the twist, Squall wasnt exactly all good was he? Which made Seifer his mirror image, neither one was an extreme, but on the other side was Rinoas nemeisis and its somethin I believe whole heartedly, that her opposing point was Ultimecia; why? Because that is Rinoa in the future (I am not startin that debate here, just sharing my view. FF8 was not so simple as good VS evil, it was the love story that meant the most.....

Now, my fave villain was Kuja, he was calm, yet decidedly exotic. He was feminine yet masculine in his power. He had a plan from the moment we enters the game. One could call him a "mastermind" as he knew how to exploit not just Zidane, but EVERYONE, he plays everyone off against everyone else. He sees himself as something so special that he is above everyone, and is the epitome of Narcissism, but you cared about him because of why he wanted to destroy all that existed, I wont spoil though. Kuja was also beautiful, where most FF villains are dark or quirky, Kuja was like a white demon. He evil was masterfully done.

A few other good examples of villains are;

Kain, Legacy of Kain/ Soul Reaver series; Not quite good, not quite evil. The "Riddick" of the game world, an evil that was because it is, not because it wa forged. Kain was a Vampire, it was his nature.

 Wesker, Resident Evil series; One of the darkest and most mysterious villains we know, over the many years we have seen hi, we sill dont know what he wants, or who he works for.

 Vergil, Devil May Cry; Okay so the twin thing has been done to death, but they nailed it with Vergil, dont ya think?

 Now, I believe ANY type of villain can work, but in order for the villain to work, they have to be perfectly balanced with the hero or heroes.....they have to have a good story, feelings, they must have a motive, a style and a gimic, and they must not appear too much, but not too little, they have to bring dread to your heart, you should fear fights with them for the fear of how strong they can be.......because they should be your greatest challenge, remember how you felt before the final showdown on every FF???

Kefka=the villain you love to hate.

A villian whos only back drop on there motive is insanity is weak in purpose to say the least... im sorry but kefka did nothing for me... its as i said, sephiroth is not the greatest villian of all time, and ff 7 is not the greatest game of all time. But if u stop and look every one seems to point there finger at sepjhiroth here the majority of the time. Some people may or may not have liked seph, regardless, the only reason people like to pin him up is for the simple fact that ff 7 is over rated and they are trying to make themsleves out to apear as true ff fans by saying things like "oh seph is lame, all these dumb fan boys dont know what there talking about" or sumting similar to that, Get over it u can hate ff 7 as much as u want, and critisize it till ur blue in the face, the fact is that sephiroth was a good villian for his worth, caloling him goth or what not is reduculous. Im almost starting to belive that the fanboys are the ones who easily !@#$ talk ff7 just to give themselves back bone. U can post a lie and no one could tell, but who ever u are, if u played ff7 back when i first hit the states, u liked it at least and none of the things ur saying now most likley never occured to u

Sephiroth's badassocity overshadows his pure evilness. Yes I made up words, so does Colbert.

Sephiroth's badassocity overshadows his pure evilness. Yes I made up words, so does Colbert.

 

GoPhins123

Agreed...Sephiroth, as I said earlier, is a BAMF (to quote the great Dane Cook)!

p.s. congrats on picking up Joey Porter...sadly, as a Steelers fan, it was a sad sad day for me...

Sephiroth's badassocity overshadows his pure evilness. Yes I made up words, so does Colbert.

 

GoPhins123

[QUOTE="GoPhins123"]

Sephiroth's badassocity overshadows his pure evilness. Yes I made up words, so does Colbert.

 

fs_metal

Thats just not true Sephiroth was an out standing villain, but he was just as good as Seifer, Kuja, Seymour and now Vayne......each FF has its own merits and flaws, but to lift Seph up so high is wrong, he was good, but he just didnt out rank any other villain, they all work......

[QUOTE="fs_metal"][QUOTE="GoPhins123"]

Sephiroth's badassocity overshadows his pure evilness. Yes I made up words, so does Colbert.

 

Sonic_Wolfe

Thats just not true Sephiroth was an out standing villain, but he was just as good as Seifer, Kuja, Seymour and now Vayne......each FF has its own merits and flaws, but to lift Seph up so high is wrong, he was good, but he just didnt out rank any other villain, they all work......

Clearly I like Sephiroth, but I think that the reason people are so drawn to him is because, even though there are some villains after him which are just as good, he was the first. He was the first one that really made a mark on the series and really, when it comes to bosses, he has become an icon. He's become one of the most well-known villains of all time...TheFrontman04

Oh how wrong you are 

You said he was the first. I am telling you he wasn't.fs_metal

If not Sephiroth, who would you consider to be the first villain to really make a mark on the series?

Kefka...

But he is no better.. period.  The only reason seph is known so well is for the simple fact that 7s life has been so drawn out. His is over rated, but that is only because of all teh hype that the lesser final fantasy gaming audience portrays him. In all honesty he is an acceptable villian, like i said. Calling him a goth really doesnt say much

[QUOTE="fs_metal"]You said he was the first. I am telling you he wasn't.TheFrontman04

If not Sephiroth, who would you consider to be the first villain to really make a mark on the series?

[QUOTE="TheFrontman04"]

[QUOTE="fs_metal"]You said he was the first. I am telling you he wasn't.fs_metal

If not Sephiroth, who would you consider to be the first villain to really make a mark on the series?

I still believe Kefka > Sphiroth.

Sephy is a good villain and all but he's still lacks ture uniqueness that a great villain posses. In other words, he's too predictable, from the moment you first see him its obvious he going to do something very bad in a cool, collected maner. While on the other hand Kefka is so unpredictable and wierd he just has a nautral ability to be a good villain. Kefka changed the defination of a villain in a videogame and for that he will remain the best FF villain ever.

Kefka accomplished a hell of alot more than Sephiroth, opr any opther FF villian for that matter. Sephritoh is not a good villian. I will stand by this statement till the day I diefs_metal

Since when do accomplishments characterize a villian?.... if sepheroth succeded in summoning meteor to the planet and it distroyed midgar and all the planet, whould that have made him a good villian..?

Kefka was as predictable as any 6th grade story book villian, There was not a singel point in that game were they even bothered to explain kefkas backround, why he was that way, what deeply affected him. he had no character except for his sinister laugh and craving for power through distruction. Dont get me wrong, im not saying seph is better..but at least u understood him to an extent. Kefka was no better in that sense.. People really need to jump of the "Lets hate Seph and all of ff 7 because of the fanboys'' wagon.

Serously, and im being honest, not sarcastic.. What makes seymore, kuja, or vayne any better? Defending an old final fantasy title does not make u a true ff gamer, nor does talking down upon ff 7, and defending ff 7 does not make u a fanboy either

i know seph because of fanboys and belive him to be a *****.i think vayne is a good villain thoughomega235

A good villian is deffinitely someone that you want to kill and fewl motivated to do sy by the end of the game. No one did htat better than KEfka. 

Sephiroth did just that.  There is not a finla fantasy to this date, were the main villian kills a beloved character, When Sephiroth killed aris because she was a threat to his purpose, that made me want to kill him at the end of the game, kafka was just a nuesence. I cant think of a sinlge moment in FF 12 were vayne made any sort of impact u while u were playing it. With all due respect... At least sephiroths goal wasent simple predictable craving for power like vayne or kefka, it was a more personal, self reviving goal to say the least, with an ultimate purpose of more than just simply wanting to rule over everything. Im beging to wonder if these people even thuroughly played through 7 at all.

None theless i think its safe to say that 8s villian or lack thereof was the worst by far.

Sephiroth did just that. There is not a finla fantasy to this date, were the main villian kills a beloved character, When Sephiroth killed aris because she was a threat to his purpose, that made me want to kill him at the end of the game, kafka was just a nuesence. I cant think of a sinlge moment in FF 12 were vayne made any sort of impact u while u were playing it. With all due respect... At least sephiroths goal wasent simple predictable craving for power like vayne or kefka, it was a more personal, self reviving goal to say the least, with an ultimate purpose of more than just simply wanting to rule over everything. Im beging to wonder if these people even thuroughly played through 7 at all.

None theless i think its safe to say that 8s villian or lack thereof was the worst by far.

ThreeVo

KEfka was alot more than a nuesence. He destroyed everything and killed millions of people...and took over what remained of the planet. All Sephritoh did was burn down an insignificant village and send one of his lackeys to kill Aeris. What's so great about that,? Especailly in comparison to how much Kefka accomplished?

Ill say it again.... simple masacre and mass distruction is understandable, but all to predictable, all he was about was power over the world, that is not too impresive.

Aris.. useless?.. she housed the holy elemental, the one thing that interfeared with sephs main goal.. how is that usless. She was a good character. Burning down a small village, yes he did, and it was an insignificant town as well, i know, but that was on a more personal level, it involved the main characters more closley. I understand that kefka basicaly remaped the planet with his actions, and at that time, the game did give u a depressed feel and that was a very great aspect of 6 but none the less, that was just an event, and did not focus on kekfa too much, Im just not won over by some one who just happens to be insane, i like to respect the main villian and understand his purpose, not simply hate him for distoying everything.

Obviously your more about event driven plots as i am more interested in character driven plots. Were just goin to have to leave it at that

Ill say it again.... simple masacre and mass distruction is understandable, but all to predictable, all he was about was power over the world, that is not too impresive.

Aris.. useless?.. she housed the holy elemental, the one thing that interfeared with sephs main goal.. how is that usless. She was a good character. Burning down a small village, yes he did, and it was an insignificant town as well, i know, but that was on a more personal level, it involved the main characters more closley. I understand that kefka basicaly remaped the planet with his actions, and at that time, the game did give u a depressed feel and that was a very great aspect of 6 but none the less, that was just an event, and did not focus on kekfa too much, Im just not won over by some one who just happens to be insane, i like to respect the main villian and understand his purpose, not simply hate him for distoying everything.

Obviously your more about event driven plots as i am more interested in character driven plots. Were just goin to have to leave it at that

ThreeVo

All of Kefka and Ghestal's actions in the past had an effect on Terra and her past. 

They did give a reason for Kefka's insanity. Much like Sephritoh, who is nowhere near the nutjob that Kefka was, it was a result of being experimented on. The details surrounding it are different, but hte principal is the same. Eitehr way., Kefka did alot more things to piss the player off and make him opr her want to slaughter him by the end of the game than Sephritoh did. That is what ti takes to be a good villian. The end result? Sephritoh comes across as a wanna be and a mommas boy. A pathetic stereytype of a goth. Kefka comes across as an evil son of a b*tch who really knows how to get the player worked up, which means Kefka is the better villian 

to me a great villain is someone that controls an amazing deal of power, while at the same time being either Dark or cool, but never insane. WhiteFlame-XIII

 SPOILERS ALERT

I think what all of you are saying is very true; Kefka was a villain worthy of much pain recieving as the game went on, his laugh, his notorious disregard for everything and anything, and who could forget his poisoning everyone? I certainly wanted him dead, but thats all he achieved with me. I did not dread his appearances quite like any other villain, but thats not to say he was not good, Kefka represented complete Chaos, he was Anarchy, which in retrospect to the Hero, which IMO was Terra, balanced Hero/Villain out well, Terra was so lost, yet her path was ordained, she represented pure Order. Now thats the point Im hitting on, you are all banging on about what makes a good villain, ya wanna kno what makes a good villain? A GOOD HERO! One cannot exist without the other, Sephiroth was goooooood, very good. But without Cloud he would hav jes been another emo-leather-goth Pyscho, they matched and one complimented the other, Sephs MO didnt matter, what mattered was that it was congruent with Clouds MO, same with Kefka/Terra, Seifer/Squall, Zidane/Kuja, Tidus/Seymour, Yuna/Shuyin and now Vaan/Vayne, each pairing was achieved through balanced MOs, if no one minds Ill point it out to make my point.

FFVII - Cloud knew nothing of who he was, he lived a lie to protect himself from reality, Seph on the other knew too much, became entranced by his own greatness and felt he needed everyone to fall to their knees in death to recognize his power, perfect dramatic balance.

 FFVII - Squall was not your typical hero, he was annoying, uncharming, cheeky and most of all dull. Squall didnt want power, ot be a hero and he didnt kno who he felt, yet he was the hero, Seifer on the other hand was too charming, too interesting in a dramatical sense and he knew exactly what he wanted, he just didnt kno how to get it properly, Seifer and Squall paced each other well, hence they would never have been chosen to be the central roles.

FFXI - Zidane was lacklustre, funny and lighthearted, he didnt take much seriously and rarely brooded, he followed his instincts for most of the game, and it worked as Kuja was planned, theatrical and had made every one of his and everyones else steps match to his dark yet uplifting tune, he wanted nothing more than to watch everyone die by his hand because he thought so highly of himself, yet Zidane was the opposite so much so he sacraficed himself to save the villain, would Kuja have done that? No.

FFX - Yuna, Yuna was the mirror split Tidus from Seymour one wanted to love her, the other wanted her to love him and each spent their time trying to show their own version of love, and thats what made Seymour so scary, his MO was Love, he loved things so much he wanted to kill everything to release Spira from its pain, freaky huh? Tidus jes wanted to save it, but to relfect Seymour, he DID have his own selfish reasons didnt he?

FFX-2 - Yuna wanted the truth and her love back, simply Shuyin wanted the same but he went about it the most selfish way he could, which is in essence what evil is. Yuna was selfless as always.

FFXII - Vaan was not interested in love, he wanted Justice and freedom, which was the complete ooposite from what Vayne wanted, Vayne wanted complete domination, and was a hairs length away from it - Luke VS Palpatine the age old Randomality VERSUS Power.....

 Now my point with all of this long winded text is what makes a good villain??? The Hero and the balance between the two. I hope someone agrees.

[QUOTE="WhiteFlame-XIII"]to me a great villain is someone that controls an amazing deal of power, while at the same time being either Dark or cool, but never insane. fs_metal

well I mean I wish villains were like that... Because when their insane, it looks like they're losing face and they end up using their own arrogance to become weak enough to lose. Which is why I tend to dislike Main Bad guys. Or even bad guys in the series at all. square does a good job at making the main characters the cool ones. (ex. Vincent Valentine, Squall, Auron, Balthier, or even Shadow from FFVI)