The Gist - Games That Refuse To Grow Up And Why That’s OK

Jess covers off on some awesome nostalgia-inspired games that are refusing to compromise for the support of big publishers.

Discussion

48 comments
Anteares
Anteares

turn based tactical is personally my favorite type of game.  I wish a new FF tactics game would come out (like the original).  Divinity OS has done it best recently by far.  FPS like halo and COD is so tired.

Zloth2
Zloth2

I don't think the 4X genre ever "grew up."  They might have real time combat but most 4X games are turn based (or at least pause-on-space).  Of course, the only one that gets big publisher support is Civilization.

(Umm, Divinity: Original Sin isn't hard, is it?  Maybe it depends on what characters you got.)

kozzy1234
kozzy1234

Game of the year so far and best rpg in years!

Excited to try Wasteland 2 and Pillars Of Eternity final versions to! (What I have played so far of both games beta's is good).

archav3n
archav3n

Divinity Original Sins is really awesome. I'm bit worried Pillars of Eternity is not going to come close. King's Bounty is one of my favorite as well as Might & Magic as well as Heroes of Might and Magic. I find Might & Magic X pretty awesome as well as Might & Magic Heroes 6. I'm surprised Jess didn't try out Heroes 6 as Normal difficulty is quite challenging for the SP campaign.

Verityrant
Verityrant

I love challenging games, the problem I am finding with games lately is them having a poor payoff at the end, where it doesn't feel satisfying.  The nerfs to magic in DS2 for instance, made that a waste of my time on my sorcerer once I got to new game plus, it isn't fun or rewarding that I have to hit regular monsters with my strongest spells like 5 times for a kill, and bosses at that point ridiculous.   That isn't challenge, that is tedium, and it makes the PC feel like the weakest creature in the land.  I prefer when a character actually feels like a powerful character fighting powerful monsters, not an overly ambitious kitten. 

BL2, with no one but the Gunzerker having ammo regen, made my sniper Zer0 play through suck since I always felt like I was switching away from my best weapon, etc etc.  These games either begin with a poor payoff, or worse are getting one after the fact as devs come back and nerf and alter the original game into the ground.  Cut that shit out devs.  My 2 cents. 

WolfgarTheQuiet
WolfgarTheQuiet

Most of these are modern games. Where are the nostalgic cult classics that stayed away from big publishers. 

waelse1
waelse1

Jess slapped down Skyrim as being too easy?!

(Takes deep breath) NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Actually it is, unless you add mods where you have to eat, stay warm, etc.

After working all day I'm not really in the mood for a challenge so it suits me. I don't want a tough game like Dark Souls where I would die repeatedly, though hats off to those who do.

Ovirew
Ovirew

The simple fact of the matter is that a video game can be anything you want it to be, no game has to be stuck within the confines of the 'norm'.  Unfortunately, people have a difficult time realizing that, and their short attention spans and pre-conceived notions make it difficult for them to realize that.

hansbeej
hansbeej

It's nice having new games that retain some of the mechanics and difficulty of old. I enjoy old and modern game design, though lately I've found myself playing more retro titles - such as a few mentioned by Jess in the video but also Super Time Force Ultra. I'm looking forward to Pillars of Eternity for my Infinity Engine nostalgia fix. 


And to those complaining about the opinions expressed in the video: it's not like these games and ones like Skyrim can't coexist and be developed at the same time. If you don't agree with this kind of design philosophy then don't play the games - problem solved. 

hitomo
hitomo

shes drunk ...


and Larion disappoints me with every game they make, I am just not superficial enough ... because thats what old.sdcool most often stands for and hard/punishing difficulty is always a drag of content and the first form of

grind invented ...

suppaphly42
suppaphly42

well jess you were in a chatty mood today i'm sad i missed it that said i love your shows about games, for real old school gamers. games  that were hard and when you beat them it meant something.


i find a lot of games now  i will play all the way to the end and stop. the reason is if it was a game i liked it will be over. also, in most cases, i know i can finish it. but back in the day if i had not finished a game it was because i was not good enough at it yet so to beat a game was to prove to yourself that you were good enough.

 i even had a list of snes games that i had beaten it was that important to me 

Verenti
Verenti

Wait. Was there a kickstarter with Ze Frank? Why is he in a clip? (Other than Ze being awesome.)

manutdarsenal
manutdarsenal

While I agree with all her points, this video was too narrow minded IMO. In other words, it needed more games from other genres as the video is titled "Games That Refuse To Grow Up And Why That’s OK".

jb1000
jb1000

when i was playing my friend came in to my game instead of him going to my level i went to his level why cause it was impossiable to kill monsters at my level i was on normal mode for reapers of soul

Halloll
Halloll

I don't want to see Real Time Tactics games disappear, these days everyone only cares about making turn based games. guess I will never get to play a modernized X-com Apocalypse.

luert
luert

I completly agree on making nice challenging, games, there are so few on the markets right now, but it also depends on the the type of game you like, I for one don't really like strategy turn game like, I prefer action paced ones, like dark siders 1 and 2, and I can somewhat stand dragon age style, really like the old neverwinter nights 2, and I also like warhammer, sadly I can't really like too much simple graphic game, feels too much like old school, but just well enough good looking in the graphic and very nice gameplay that's fine by me (=, I'm not a fan of tes or diablo, diablo feels too much like world of warcraft with that isometric view wich I think it's more suited for strategy games, while I'm pretty interested in the upcoming sacred 3, as for TES I don't like the fightining system, I know it has a lot of nice stuff in it, but I've seen the game developers work and watched a lot of gameplay videos, and it's not that nice really, but it's a quality game for sure, I also like mass effect 1 to 3 wich is quite good down the end, and bioshock infinite was marvelous both for gameplay and story alike, so it also comes down to tastes, but a bit of good challenge it's always welcome, this sorta reminds me of prince of persia warrior within when I was fighting the dahaka in hard or hell mode, was a real damn hard challenge to bring it down for me, also I haven't been able to complete warhammer 40k soulstorm on hard mode, tried over and over but it's too hard, still I love it (=

vadagar1
vadagar1

:D great vid


yah skyrim was not that great, now I find myself playing DOTA2 and STALKER 3 with MISERY mod installed (insanely realistic mod) and minecraft on hard difficulty ....etc

while games like diablo 3 TESO and skyrim gather dust ....

what I would love to see is a new fresh take on a TES game where its more "realistic" I know its REALLY hard to make a fantasy combat game 'realistically" but I pray every day some one will do it

overlook_217
overlook_217

It is quite hard to compete with money. It's hard to compete against the money. And let's face it, what does the market turn (no matter what the market is) is the money it generates. Divinity: Original Sin was a success on kickstarter fundraising, but it is one in a sea of ​​giants. Because every year we have new CoD, Battlefield, FIFA, Madden, NBA and others because they have games market. Just seeing the excitation of people with the announcement of a new game of these franchises.
Do not really like the experience of seeing something from my childhood to be redone or remastered, in my opinion, each game brings a unique experience, a singular thing, something that made me fight for it, and if I want to revisit these games, I try to find an emulator or other ways to play, but this rarely happens, because as I said, I've had that experience, I want something new and not the same.

youre_a_sheep
youre_a_sheep

The recent remastered versions of Ducktales and Mickey's Castle of Illusion are my favorites.  They didn't just give the games a fresh coat of paint, but re-envisioned them, keeping the challenge while doing away with anything cheap.  Just as you said Jess, they're tough but fair and beatable if you practice and have enough skill.

For many years I've been begging for a modern version of NES classic The Guardian Legend, a combination of third person Zelda style action/puzzles and space shooter.  Battletoads is also more than ready for a new game that's tough as nails, minus the memorization the original required.  And where on earth is Contra?

ginobili1
ginobili1

D:OS is an awesome game. I'm as hooked on it as I was once on Skyrim.

skycracksopen
skycracksopen

I'd love to see a remake of The Faery Tale Adventure, an Amiga classic from the 80s. 

Burmercia
Burmercia

Totally agree with the video. I would do anything for a nice remake of the classic 3(or4) playstation 1 final fantasy games. In their beautiful turn-based glory. And in terms of graphics, games like Monaco and Hotline Miami just prove that something that's fun to play > budget.

struthyfizz
struthyfizz

Though I like Jess, I think she should quit the videos about turn based rpgs and strategy games. First and foremost these are not the most exciting of genres, even less interesting too. But also she's going to alienate a lot of console and action gamers like myself... So Jess - stay hot, but get back to the fun and modern. I 've lost count how many slightly dorky subjects Jess has vidded on...

deviltaz35
deviltaz35

@WolfgarTheQuiet I was surprised Grim Dawn didn't get a mention. It is still incomplete but was in the last Steam sale and is amazing value for money.

tempertress
tempertress moderator staff

@vadagar1 Thanks! I think TES will always have to be relatively accessible now that it's so popular. It used to be tricky, now the difficulty (when you turn it up) doesn't feel like it's in context, it's just scaled up monsters. It's not a real tactically demanding sort of difficulty boost.

luert
luert

@overlook_217 yeah I agree on that one, but you should also consider a few remade games, wich is something that hasn't really happened so far, I mean the only remastered wich deserves credit is metro redux in my opinion because it's certanly a bit more than a simple remake

tempertress
tempertress moderator staff

@youre_a_sheep I love a fair challenge.

gawthy
gawthy

@struthyfizz These subjects are childhood memories. Turn based rpgs and strategy games are more about choices you make, the party you keep, when to use that spell or save it for later. Its more exciting than most modern games on the market. Hell play Final Fantasy 7 and ill assure you that game is more in depth than most games on the market today..

 I wish Jess would talk about the SNES and Sega Mega Drive games as im sure anyone in their mid 20s plus would get super excited

Ovirew
Ovirew

@struthyfizz I didn't realize it was womens' jobs to just look pretty and talk simple.  Are we goin' back to the 60's?  If so, I'm totally applying to work for Sterling-Cooper...


Btw, smart people tend to enjoy RPGs and strategy games.  I should know, I'm one of them.  Let us control the world while you just sit there and pretend you matter.

tempertress
tempertress moderator staff

@struthyfizz I think better videos are made through passion instead of just pandering to what is popular. For example there's not much use me talking about a game I'm not jazzed about for five minutes when you could hear about it from someone who's crazy about it. I intend to make videos on all sorts of things, Divinity is a big game I hadn't talked about yet.

BrunoBRS
BrunoBRS

@struthyfizz i keep trying to formulate a comment on how wrong you are on so many levels, but i can't. i mean, god, where do i even start?

vadagar1
vadagar1

@struthyfizz Whaaaaaaaaaa...!!???

boy ur crazy..... the fact that Jess likes divinity so much is that she is a TRUE game, a gamer that likes to have fun AND likes to be challenged to the maximum of her abilities 

Dark_Mits
Dark_Mits

@struthyfizz "these are not the most exciting genres"... Completely subjective. If anything, I don't think I have been lived more excitement through videogames with some plottwists in some RPGs or some very crucial decisions in turn-based boss battles.

vadagar1
vadagar1

@tempertress @vadagar1 yah and I do hate HP sponges ... just does not feel "difficult" just feels tedious (remember oblivion *shivers*)


I wish TES would go back to their roots ... but like you said they are too popular now and they cant risk "alienating" the new fans ... although dark souls do prove that even console players like challenging games

TehUndeadHorror
TehUndeadHorror

@tempertress @vadagar1 I just want a difficulty setting in every game that only scales damage up. Increasing enemy health just increases grind, but increasing damage actually alters the game to a survival experience.

Like early level Fallout 3 when you got wrecked by everything, ever. That was hella fun.

TheExxorcist
TheExxorcist

Why does nobody here like Diablo 3?

Although, I will say it's a grindfest, end game content also matters on which builds you choose for which classes.

And Torment 6 (akin to teir 6 on PC) does require use of tactics in order to survive...

I guess most people can't handle grinding endless hours to get to end game difficulty. But even the strongest of builds die often.

And for that, I like the challenge:)

Barbarian for the Win!!!

nodbgp
nodbgp

@tempertress @struthyfizz Keep it up, there's enough people pandering to what's popular for obvious, but no so pure reasons already. 

Besides, these great games do need the exposure. As someone with similar taste and who hopes that these kind of games keep coming up, thanks for that.

struthyfizz
struthyfizz

@tempertress @struthyfizz  Ok, fair point. I'm passionate about my games too, and I like diversity. Maybe I was a little hasty...maybe. I do like the Gist, don't get me wrong. But I suppose my key point, one that I a little overindulged with my typing hand, was "another video about Jess's love of rpg's and strategy games..." I'm sure we had both one of the former and the latter very little time ago.  

struthyfizz
struthyfizz

@Dark_Mits @struthyfizz  ok, ok - subjective, don't disagree. But do most people like them? Jess may like turn based rpgs and so on, they are her vids after all. But if she keeps making ones like this and the others, I don't think she will be making them much longer

deviltaz35
deviltaz35

@TheExxorcist It's not that nobody likes it . It is just that compared to Diablo 2 it is quite poor. Plus this topic was about old school mechanics and Diablo 3 is more an Arpg than an RPG. It can be fun in short bursts but it doesn't require as much strategy to win battles as something like Divinity Original Sin where you can plan out all facets of combat being turn based.

They play so differently you can't really compare the two but if you can try Divinity as the story and characters are a breath of fresh air after Diablo 3.

nodbgp
nodbgp

@struthyfizz @Dark_Mits What's most people?

She doesn't need the vast majority of the planet to watch her video, she just need that a bunch of people like it. And guess what, there's a bunch of people out there who love those kind of games, much more than you can imagine.

So I would say that her job is pretty much safe.

youre_a_sheep
youre_a_sheep

@struthyfizz @Dark_Mits  I've always hated RPG's but even I've been won over by Dragon Age Origins, Child of Light and action games with RPG elements like Dragon's Crown.  It's a genre on the verge of mainstream acceptance, provided it doesn't abandon what hooked its core audience while courting gamers like me who want strategy AND dexterity to determine our success.

xneonic
xneonic

@tempertress @struthyfizz @Dark_Mits You're the journalist. Like you commented down below, I would like you and all of the Gamespot employees to make videos that they WANT to make. So keep doin' your thing!!!