GS News - GTAV PS3 vs. PS4 Graphics; Do YouTubers Owe Game Devs Money?

Fez creator Phil Fish says YouTubers are committing piracy, Microsoft say millions more Xbox 360s will be sold, and promised PS4 features are coming!

Discussion

219 comments
mynameisunique
mynameisunique

First of all: Phil Fish is a psychopath. 

Also: his "game" is only the platform of the experience. The gamers are the ones creating the content with it. 

Following his logic any video made with software like adobe premiere or after effects should also reimburse adobe when the said video would profit the "content creators"...

The guy's a millionaire now & still bitter. No one should listen to a sad man like him.

Ragnagoth
Ragnagoth

Plus, the movie comparison is invalid, since the purpose of a movie is being watched and a game is meant to be played. So the piracy issue is utter bull.

Ragnagoth
Ragnagoth

Ok, so according to Phil Fish's reasoning, if you buy a hammer and you use that hammer to work and make some money, you owe the hammer production company money.
I guess I can understand the logic in that... NOT!!! This guy is just spewing nonsense now.

SingletreeAve
SingletreeAve

How lame do you have to be to watch video game footage on the internet?  Oh wait..

rickphoenixxx
rickphoenixxx

Yeah Phil because people REALLY wanna watch the Fez movie. Prick. Now TLOU is a youtube movie worth watching! Best flick of 2013 easily. I do feel bad I didn't buy a ticket tho, I mean it did so poorly they are bringing it out again this year! In an unrelated story, GTA5.

scarred_fox
scarred_fox

you aussies are the ones with accents; we speaks normals XD

LucentWolf
LucentWolf

Wow, usually GS News only gets like 60ish comments. This is nuts.

Bread_or_Decide
Bread_or_Decide

Anyone remember Napster and that whole debate? I fee like the game industry is headed in that direction. This debate is only going to get worse.

Tranula
Tranula

Fish just keeps digging himself a hole.  If he were a "true" artist, he would want his work spread as much as possible for all to use and see.  He is going the way of every other sell out and just cares about the moola!  EA anyone?  anyone?  Look at the music world.  So many underground bands actually want you to download there work off the net.  They want you to hear they're art.  This guy wants more money.


sandwichdoctor
sandwichdoctor

People who watch Let's Plays can still have a reason to buy a dev's game. It's very different from streaming a movie, where there's no reason to buy it afterwards. That said, Youtubers are using Game footage sure, but it's not the only thing that a (good) Let's player posts on youtube. If its good, they'll have humor and / or personality that keeps people watching. For example, I watch Let's Plays and Machinimas from wowcrendor regardless of what he plays, because I think he's HILARIOUS! Also, I like Gamespot, but I'll just say, How would they make any views if their "Top 10 Skyrim mods of the Week" didn't actually show the mod, because Bethesda hypothetically forced them to hand over money for their ad revenue and stop using Skyrim footage. Also, don't get me wrong, there are some Let's Players who might make money with little effort; I can see a developer's frustration, but most youtubers NEED the money they make from ad revenue, since its their JOB. And Speaking of ads, a lot of videos for video games are basically advertisements for a dev's games. Ok, my rant's over lol

Run_2_the_Hills
Run_2_the_Hills

i hope no one post up this game on youtube anymore cause that's how i heard about it.

natanmir
natanmir

but GTA 5 pc version not out yet! dammit!

gamer_guy777
gamer_guy777

The same people insulting Fish would be extremely furious if someone took their YouTube video; reposted and banked of it. Piracy is piracy. I can assure you the moment "YOUR" product is used, reproduced, or exploited in any way against your best interest you'd take legal action. I agree if you buy a product it is yours but things like movies; if you can see it free on youtube why pay? Now if you are the one making a living of said movie? Games ... Well it is different, however a short review or teaser is fine, even a how-to, but a full on gameplay? Really? Not illegal? How so? There are people who worked their *** off to make said product to make money not so that Mr/Mrs. YouTuber can ruin their revenue. Done right is different, done right is advertisement. But many of these videos aren't done in the publishers best interest. Defend it and you are defending not having rights protecting your product your image your privacy etc. these same laws you are against are the laws that keep you and your hard earned money safe. Food For Thought

Bread_or_Decide
Bread_or_Decide

Sigh...you know, I love gaming but I hate the gaming community. 

Bread_or_Decide
Bread_or_Decide

The answer is simple: youtube should not allow monetization of video game footage. You can post it but you can't make money off it. Done.


This does not include reviews or previews btw. But actual gameplay footage especially of the entire game should NOT be allowed to be monetized. Period. Problem solved. 


Gamers get their walk throughs and devs don't have their intellectual property used without their permission to make money.


Go on a stage and sing a kanye west song at a concert people paid tickets for. I guarantee you'll hear from his lawyers the  next day. Guaranteed. 

jayjay444
jayjay444

Okay I can understand it when they stream an entire game but when they show parts of the game on how to kill a certain boss on Dark souls for example, then this logic goes right out the window. Youtubers are basically advertising your game and sometimes hype it up even more making you guys lots and lots of £££$$$ what part of that is so hard to understand. 

barrybarryk
barrybarryk

@Bread_or_Decide especially when the only people commenting on it are YouTube personalities who mysteriously forget all about the explicit legal obligation to obtain permission any time they comment on it and just perpetuate a misleading narrative suggesting the law doesn't cover video games.

Ganimolio
Ganimolio

@Tranula I think the notion that a "true" artist does not want to be compensated for their work is false.  True, many bands use free music as a way to reach new audiences, but ultimately they need money to continue to make music.  If the product has value, which it does, then the creator should be compensated for it.

Ganimolio
Ganimolio

@sandwichdoctor I agree that YouTubers need money and that it is their job, but they are making money from someone else's work and the original creator is entitled to compensation for that.  I don't see why both parties can't take their share.  It works for music and other video formats and it should work for games as well.

Ganimolio
Ganimolio

@gamer_guy777 There is a difference between piracy and copyright infringement.  We are talking about compensating developers, the creators of the original content, an amount based on money that is made from a derivative work, not piracy.  I think Fish's choice of wording with the use of the term "Piracy" was inappropriate.

cmooney91
cmooney91

@gamer_guy777 It's simple. Get permission and you avoid these kinds of things. Many developers have been more than happy to give us permission on our channel. And these range from small studios to the big ones. As long as you don't alter their IP, they don't care. They even give us permission to monetize. Phil Fish is just an a******.

Ganimolio
Ganimolio

@Bread_or_Decide The thing is,  YouTube doesn't WANT this to happen.  They want people to create content so that other people come to the site.  They can lure people to create content by giving them incentive.  The incentive is that if they make good, popular videos, they get money.  The system works fine.  The problem is that in the case of game streaming, the game developers, ie. the creators of the original work, aren't getting compensated.  Musicians, movies, and TV show creators are being compensated through this system, so the argument is that game developers should be too.

Bread_or_Decide
Bread_or_Decide

@jayjay444 So post the video. But don't allow ad revenue from it. Simple.  The player shouldn't make money just because he can beat a boss in a game. 


Anyone want to pay me for reading all of Atlas Shrugged? 

barrybarryk
barrybarryk

@jayjay444 The part were the developers never contracted them to do it or gave them permission to publicly broadcast the game for commercial benefit.  That part.

Tranula
Tranula

@Ganimolio @Tranula  its just sort of funny when im sure most ppl looked at fez on youtube to know if they want to buy it.  To me, it would do him more good than bad, this just making him look greedy or un appreciative.

cmooney91
cmooney91

@Ganimolio @gamer_guy777 Is it really Copyright Infringement if you have permission? No. It's simple as that. Problem is most of these Let's Play channels don't even bother asking, they just do it and hope for the best, that's no way to run a business.

jayjay444
jayjay444

@barrybarryk @jayjay444 Once you buy a game your buying the right to play it so why not? if you have the right to resell your game then why not have the right to show it to people, your logic makes no sense what so ever. Thats like me buying a game and playing it in front of my mate and never actually plays the game but he isn't aloud to watch me play it because he doesn't have permission? yeah right mate jog on once I buy the game I can do what ever I want with it other than pirate it. 

Ganimolio
Ganimolio

@Tranula @Ganimolio I'll agree with you that I think his approach did more harm than good, especially when he already has so many detractors.  I'm also not arguing that YouTube videos of his game aren't valuable nor that the creator of the video shouldn't be compensated, I'm saying if someone is using someone else's creation to make money, the original creator deserves a share.

barrybarryk
barrybarryk

@cmooney91 If you have permission it's fine, it's just lots and lots of YouTubers seem to think that step is optional.

Bread_or_Decide
Bread_or_Decide

@cmooney91 @Ganimolio @gamer_guy777 Gaming is the latest and thus least regulated art form. They need to figure all this out someday. The entitled will always think they have a claim to everything. It's up to the regulators to shut them up and shut them down.



Ganimolio
Ganimolio

@cmooney91 @Ganimolio @gamer_guy777 Yes, I agree, if you get permission then you are golden.  If money is involved, I bet that a lot of these agreements do involve the developer getting a cut.  And you're right, most of these channels don't get permission, which is the problem.

barrybarryk
barrybarryk

@jayjay444 Read the license, you have the right to play it but public broadcasting and commercial use is explicitly forbidden under the license.  Just like music, movies and TV Shows.  And yes the law applies to video games too.

Tranula
Tranula

@Ganimolio @Tranula  Yeah, I totally agree.  If ppl are making money, he deserves to get some revenue from that.  I am sorry, I think I misinterperated the video.  But if fans are posting there experiences in the game online with full video segments, I would take that as a form of flattery.  I just think this guy is sort of a crybaby. 

cmooney91
cmooney91

@barrybarryk @cmooney91 Agreed. My youtube channel is a branch of my business, so I make sure to take every step to protect myself and my partners. Better to send an email and get a yes or no than to risk everything on it.

jayjay444
jayjay444

@barrybarryk @jayjay444 You should read it again no game iv'e read the terms and conditions for have "broadcasting and commercial use is explicitly forbidden", show me proof because iv'e yet to see it. 

Ganimolio
Ganimolio

@Tranula @Ganimolio Fish definitely doesn't do himself any favours with his off-fhte-cuff remarks.  They aren't very well thought out either.  Calling it piracy isn't right and comparing it to movies wasn't very accurate either.


Anyway, yeah, if someone were to make a video about a game I made I would be flattered too.  Of course, if they made $20,000 from it and didn't give me any, I would be angry.

barrybarryk
barrybarryk

@jayjay444 Then you don't read so well.  The first disc I pulled out of my collection has printed right on the disc "Unauthorised copying, reproduction, rental, public performance or broadcast of this game is a violation of applicable laws"

Ofcourse you could also just google copyright law and within 5 minutes you'd know all this, or even just view YouTubes own rules regarding using copyrighted materials in your videos.

jayjay444
jayjay444

@Bread_or_Decide @barrybarryk @jayjay444 All my games are saying is making illegal copies of this "disk "is illegal thats it, I can't be bothered reading 15 minutes of copy right when copy right is different in certain countries. 

Bread_or_Decide
Bread_or_Decide

@jayjay444 Oh...you can't be bothered. I'm sure that will hold up in court. Your honor I could not have been bothered to read the law. 

jayjay444
jayjay444

@Bread_or_Decide @jayjay444 @barrybarryk Theres laws to say you can't make money of the game but their making their money of the ads NOT the game, so until youtube make a new copyright system or the law is changed they will continue to make money of them and frankly I don't care if they do or don't, developers are getting more and more greedy and you defending them makes me laugh. 

jayjay444
jayjay444

@Bread_or_Decide @jayjay444 According to what i'm reading in 3 games manuals about copyright, I can't make illegal copies of the disk it says nothing about broadcasting so wheres that link i'm still waiting on to say I cant broadcast videos of games?

Bread_or_Decide
Bread_or_Decide

@jayjay444 @Bread_or_Decide @barrybarryk They are making money off the ads because of the game.


You..really have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Sorry it's true. Those greedy developers are making the games that you play all day long so treat them however you want but when they're gone you'll  know it was you who killed them. 

Tranula
Tranula

@jayjay444 @Bread_or_Decide  YES!!!  you are right.  It's just Fish.  He really is something special.  You should watch the documentary Indie.  He just cant handle pressure and damn near crumbles.  The guy has no back bone.

jayjay444
jayjay444

@Bread_or_Decide The ads aren't the game, you can make money of the ads for anything on youtube not just games, is games special? is games the only thing you can't make a bit of cash from because developers are that greedy and want all the money? Oh look that guys making money from that ad while playing our game we want that money!, lol yeah keep defending them what developer do you work for by the way?

jayjay444
jayjay444

@Bread_or_Decide @jayjay444 Fair enough but the developers don't care because in the long run they make more money of the youtubers advertising the games for them, and by the way that's only US law. 

jayjay444
jayjay444

@Tranula I feel sorry for the guy but he brought it all on him self and after hearing this today I can't stand him any more, it's about time he grew some balls. 

Bread_or_Decide
Bread_or_Decide

@jayjay444 @Bread_or_Decide I don't work for any developers. I do write books and I can only imagine if anyone wanted my book for free or if they made money off my words without my permission I'd tell them where they can go stick their heads.


Let me make this simple for you...cause I don't know if you're getting it. You get paid off the ads placed in front of your video. If all the content belongs to you then its your money to make. If the CONTENT belongs to someone else then you are infringing on copyright laws. Play a song owned by someone else. Play a movie. Post a photograph you don't own and you are breaking the law.


So if you're playing a video game from beginning to end you are making ad revenue off their copyrighted content. 


I hope you don't ever create any art cause then you might dare to understand why this is BS. 



jayjay444
jayjay444

@Bread_or_Decide @jayjay444 Reading books and movies are totally different from a game, a game is something you must play to experience it so showing it on Youtube is nothing like actually having it on your system. So developers think showing a game of is actually going to hurt sales? The only way people can experience games is playing them i.e buying them, reading books on youtube is piracy, watching movies etc. Games are different and don't get the fuss over showing a game lol this industry is a joke. 

jayjay444
jayjay444

@Bread_or_Decide @jayjay444 Yes hence the reason why developers don't care about their content being shown, they won't acknowledge this but maybe they will at some point. 

jayjay444
jayjay444

@Bread_or_Decide @jayjay444 I'm the most relaxed person there probably is playing games but I draw the line when developers get greedy like this "Fish" guy here. You would have a great laugh with me playing games but you'll never find that out will you. 

jayjay444
jayjay444

@Bread_or_Decide @jayjay444 If your a Woman then okay? lmao, if not then no but i'm just making a point i'm not one of these kids that hurl abuse on online games, I like a laugh and to have fun, I only play games with people aged 20+ because I can't stand listening to some of the people in this gaming industry and that is worse than developers being greedy.