@MachetazoZ "high end" PCs arent that costly here, and its simple to pirate the games. no need to "chip up" anything either. ohh and pretty much everyone and their sister ownes a PC now days unlike the consols. in fact i can say that i dont know anyone that doesnt own a PC or have daily access too one. and im from 'the country' and on the low end of our income scale.

piracy is theft. no way around it, and the sooner we just admit it the sooner we can get back to fighting the real issue of invasive DRM. long winded nonsense and attempts to twist common sense into legal loopholes to justify something that every one knows is theft arent helping. all games are simple copys of a master code, you pay for a copy of that code, if you copy that code without paying for it your stealing it period. i once heard an argument for piracy not being theft that went something like this. "piracy isnt theft because the person who ownes the game isnt losing anything, we arent stealing the game we are simpyl making a copy of it. its like if you have a couch in your living room and i come in whith my own tools and supplys and simply copy that couch, its not theft because you still ahve your couch , i just made a copy of it" my reply too this bit of nonses was this, game companys arent selling couches, they are selling COPYS of their couches, and if you make a copy and dont pay for it you are stealing the very thing they are trying to sell. the whole games market is based on the sale of copys of a master code. selling those copys IS the market, if you get a copy and dont pay for it its theft.

@152389 your either a company shill or just really dumb if you think that DRM is about stoping piracy. you arent wrong when you say that basic DRM will deter basic piracy. a serial code and CD check will stop 12 yeaer olds from just putting a game on their and 10 of their buddys computers. im fine with that, CD checks and serial codes ive never had a problem with (well other than when i lose one that is lol) but securom and others like it, that change settings on your computer, limits installs, or require an online check. thats not their to stop the 'causal pirate' 12 year olds, thats there to force repeat sales. you cant stop serious pirates and casual pirates are allready stoped for the most part with CD checks and serial codes so what IS the poit to massive invasive DRM beyond killing a reslae market or making guys like poor zippythezip down below to buy another copy of a game when the DRM he knows nothing about causes his game to suddenly not work. and finaly there ARE games without DRM, games that sell just fine. in fact i challange you or anyone else to name me a company that makes PC games that has gone out of business, or even failed too show a profit due to piracy. if you can id kiss your ass in time square at midnight and give yuou 20 minuts to draw a crowd

@Zinro and you too MoreDreadGS i like some of what you wrote, most of what you wrote in fact. i will just say this. game companys arent wrong for wanting to protect and profit from their work. the argument that piracy isnt theft because no one is taking something away is wrong. ALL games that are sold are simple copys of a master code. if YOU copy that code and dont pay the creators than its theft. this is a blunt line that is very clear to me and i susspect most people , even the most rabid pro-piracy person if you could pin them down and tickle their feet till you got at the truth. now having said that i make another simple point. piracy IS illegal in most nations. the answer to this is to go after the PIRATS, not the customers. my biggest issue by FAR with this is that IM being punished for something im not doing. i agree 100% that people who steal games via piracy should be punished, IM NOT ONE OF THEM. what we have now with the DRM is a conflux of two different things. 1) there is a real problem with piracy. companys have a right to protect their work and get paid for it. ive no problem with this and in fact support this whole heartedly. after all ID want to be paid for MY work. the issue is here though that companys arent attacking the problem and targeting pirats they are trying to blanket everyone who wants their game with enough restrictions to make piracy impossable. it would be like the US passing a law that says everyone who ownes a gun has to spend every other weekend in jail just, in case you may or many not have at one time, now or in the future, commited a murder. the other basic idea of a society is the idea of innocent untill proven guilty, and DRM just pisses all over this concept and i think that this is were the TRUE hatred of it is coming from. all of us who buy games and ARE innocent are treated as guilty. 2) the REAL benifit of DRM to a company is lost in the thunder of charges and counter charges. DRM is not , let me repeat that its NOT about stoping piracy from a game makers point of view anymore. after all it doesnt stop it. we know this and THEY know this, what it DOES do is to stop the resale market and forces people to buy multiple copys once their 'activations' run out. id be willing to be if you could get the numbers that FORCED resales of games due to install restrictions far surpasses any loss of sales via piracy at this point. i know many many people who play PC games and dont have a clue about DRM or even why their games stoped working and just go out and buy a new copy of a game they really liked once the old one stoped. now im not an unreasonable man, i dont begrudge a company from making a profit, but when you couple together the fact that game companys are accusing innocent people of maybe, possably, commiting a crime sometime, AND screwing over innocent customers who dont have a clue what if anything to do about why their games just stoped working (due to install limits) or that their computers are now infested with spyware, indeed most times dont even know anything about DRM at all or that it even exists. than any simpathy i have for game companys who are actualy the target of real theft due to piracy is lost. given these facts, in my mind the game companys themselves become bigger criminols than any pirate, and whats worse they are screwing not a big company that is capable of defending their products and with the full support of most countrys legal systems, but game companys are screwing their customers without the deep pockets needed to gain satisfaction and as i posted in my last bit , DRM is in most cases flat out illegal according to the FTC anyhow. so we have game companys using DRM as an excuse to defend their product from theft, and the DRM itself is both illegal and an actualy excuse fro the company to steal from their CUSTOMERS in turn.

i actualy have hope on this issue, after all the music industry got slaped down when they went nuts with their DRM http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2007/01/sony.shtm makes for a great read on just how the US 'government' is apt to eventualy deal with this DRM issue. especialy the part that gos "“Installations of secret software that create security risks are intrusive and unlawful,” said FTC Chairman Deborah Platt Majoras. “Consumers’ computers belong to them, and companies must adequately disclose unexpected limitations on the customary use of their products so consumers can make informed decisions regarding whether to purchase and install that content.” According to the complaint detailing the charges, Sony BMG embedded in its music CDs content protection software, also known as Digital Rights Management software, which installed itself on consumers’ computers to restrict the number of times the audio files could be copied. It also prevented the music from being played on certain portable digital devices. The music could not be transferred directly to iPods, for example. In addition to restricting the use of the CDs on computers using the Windows Operating System, the software, which was concealed from consumers, created security vulnerabilities that could allow hackers and other third parties to gain access to consumers’ computers. The FTC alleges that the installation of software without consumer consent that exposed consumers’ computers to security risks was unfair and violated federal law. In addition, the complaint alleges that hiding the software from consumers and failing to provide a means to uninstall it also were unfair practices in violation of federal law." further ive never read a EULA that says that my installs are limited (though its possable that they do now), and SECOND the FTC is basicaly flat out saying that an EULA isnt legal since you dont have access to it BEFORE you buy the product. and since most returns arent allowed once a product is opened (wich it obviously needs to be in order for you to gain access to the EULA) than its illegal.

@mazman3434 there are two issues with install limits, number 1) you paid to OWN the game not to rent it. it would be the same thing as buying a car and having Ford tell you you cant use it for more than 3 years then it will stop working. and number 2) ok you havent used more than 2 of your 3 install limit since spore came out, spors been out what? a year? less? what happens in 3 years when you have gone through 2 more computers......... ooops your SOL thats 1 more install than your 'allowed'. now 3 years from now did you save the contact information to call EAs 'support line'? did you save your proof of purchase? what do you do when, not if, but WHEN EA stops supporting spore 5 years from now? how many games do you own that you have installed more than 3 times? ive only owned 4 computers over the last 10 years but i dont actualy own a game i havent installed more than a half dozen times, and some of the older ones ive installed up to a dozen or more. hell ive installed RR tycoon and Dungeon keeper II prolly 30+ times. the ultiamate point though is you paid for the game, why the hell would you allow the company to tell you how you can use it? would you buy a DVD player that only let you watch G rated movies? would you buy a shampoo that only let you wash your hair if it was blond? would you buy a deck of cards that you could only play go-fish with? if you want to limit me to 3 installs than drop the price to $10 per game. but if you think your going to charge me full price than put ANY limits on me your dreaming.

one thing is really striking me as funy here. this whole feature is being presented in a 2 'side' way. there arent just 2 'sides' to this there are 3. its not about JUST game companys and the hackers, its most importiant about the consumers, where is OUR voice in this feature? without US it wouldnt matter one bit what these other two sides think or do. i dont know about you but im getting damed tired of being ignored by BOTH sides. articles like this one are all over the place, and almost allways have comments sections, people arent shy about posting our opinions and its DIRECT feedback without the need for marketing or focus groups. you cant put 10 people in a room and ask them slanted questions and post only their opinions you like and tout this as what the 'public' thinks. read these frikin comments sections and you can KNOW what we REALLY think. i suppose the trouble with this is that the truth is simple, the consumers hate it ......... period. its not an issue of 'sides' there is no 'ballance' to be had. consumers are getting the shaft with DRM. even this article is basicaly a half whit saying that 'steam' is the way to go .............. no, its not. listen to us. we dont want to rent our games. i want the game code on a disk that is easy to transfer, that i will have forever (or as long as the disk lasts) and can use at any time i like in any way i like with any computer i can get to run it if i PAY for it. nothing else is reasonable or acceptable. i might eventualy be forced to live with it, just as game companys will eventualy be fored to shut down because no one will pay full retail price for a rented game. you want me to use your DRM like securom or steam without a backlash? then knock the price down to $20 for a new copy to reflect the fact we are renting a game instead of owning it. we got suckered into paying these high prices for new games becuse of the 'value' we got by OWNING them and the long term usage we got out of them. if you want to remove that value by tying us to a limited install program or to some form of DL purchase than the price should reflect the changed value of the product. we get less value if we have to rent the game so it should cost us MUCH less. as it is now its like asking someone to RENT a house for the same price that they would pay if they wanted to buy it. it makes no frikken sense and i dont care WHO is interviewd that says otherwise. im tired of hearing about the 'publishers rights' waht about the consumers right? you subtact value by DRM and you expect us too pay the same price? ignorance.

i dont see that steam or any other system like it is any better than securom. if the company goes under you lose the ability to play the game you paid for. when steam starts sending me out a play disk so 2 or 3 years from now when its out of business, or sold out to a bigger company, or skynet go's online and nukes humanity id still have the DISK to play on my jury rigged gate-way special ......... then id say that its a fine alternative, till then its just another way to rent a game for full retail price. it seems alot of the steam cheerleaders here arent getting one of the real issues with DRM that limits how you can play YOUR game you BOUGHT.

too the EA flunky that said "We’re willing to evolve our policy to accommodate our consumers. But we’re hoping that everyone understands that DRM policy is essential to the economic structure we use to fund our games and as well as to the rights of people who create them. Without the ability to protect our work from piracy, developers across the entire game industry will eventually stop investing time and money in PC titles" i say this. good riddance, because it wont be ALL developers across the ENTIRE industry that do it, it will just be the big business, cash is king, lets milk every last cent we can out of our punters before they rebel companys that go. what will be left are companys that want to make games, companys whome the IMPORTIANT things are good games first, second, third, forth and allways. not only are your 'the sky is falling' comments obsurd in their own right, and nothing more than an excuse to continue to gouge your customers under the guise of 'protecting your work', even if they prove to be true and we DO lose those big companys that have turned game making into an industry and are more forcused on profit statments, quarterly reports, and the bottom line than on making good games i can see this as any kind of a loss at all. *waves* see ya, dont let the door hit you on the way out.

taking a moment to actualy think about this issue it amazes me at how many people really miss the point to DRM. its not about the pirates. certianly we all can see this. the publishers and games companys that use DRM arent totaly stupid. we here dont have some 'inside' understanding that they just dont lack. they know as well as WE do that DRM schemes wont stop pirates so i ask you why do they still use it? its obvious as hell to me. what gain does install limits offer a company when a pirate will crack the game and have NO limits? it will force those people who BUY games and dont pirate to buy another copy. honest people wouldnt even know there was such a thing as piracy in the first place and even if they DID know they wouldnt know how to do it. so an install limit DRM scheme = more sales ......... period. this is self evident, i can almost see a companys like EAs core of managment having a meeting talking about this very point, it would go something like this. #1 "mornin bob, our R&D guys have an idea that will up our sales 20% and we dont have to do a thing' #2 'really? how does it work?' #1 " its a set of software we stealth install along with the game that will limit users to 3 installs of the game, when those run out they will need to buy another copy. the BEST part is even if those stealth install are eventualy cought we can just cry that we are trying to stop pirats to justify it, in the mean while we have their cash" #2 *evil laugh* 'ok sounds great how soon can we start doing it?" THIS is the real reason you should be pissed at the DRM scheme if your an honest buyer. its nothing more than a flat out cash grab and customer milking scheme that is trying to fly under the cover of 'stoping pirats'. when in truth it would be like seeing an extra $50 charge a month on your bank statment that is for the 'stop the tides fund'.