I've been hearing complaints about Nintendo franchises being simplified on the Wii, that is something I can't believe, because I own both Galaxy and Corruption and I havent finished both of them, same goes for Phantom Hourglass on the DS, so Im just going crazy, how can people say the games are easier when I can't even finish them.

I own 6 Wii games ( Smooth Moves, Brawl, Corruption, Galaxy, Secret Rings, NMH ), I finished all the games except Corruption and Galaxy, I'll have to admit Sunshine is harder than Galaxy and the first MP is harder than corruption, but still both of them are hard games.

so that's probably a stupid problem, but I don't know, I mean I can't be THAT bad of a gamer, I started gaming in 1998 and in 2002 I dedicated most of my money to gaming. I'm gonna delete my save file for Phantom Hourglass and I'll start all over again, and I'll play both Galaxy and Corruption soon.

I AM gonna finish both of them hopefully.

Dymond7

I think I'll have to clarify a bit then..

I don't have any problem with Corruption or Brawl. i haven't played Galaxy yet, so I can't say. However, these are my arguments:

New Mario Bros. (DS) was easier in my opinion than most side-scrolling Mario games, i.e: Mario Land 1 & 2, Mario Bros. 2 & 3, Mario Bros. the Lost Levels., as well as Super Mario World. And to be perfectly honest, I think that at my present age (19 yrs) I picked up and played these games, I would still find them more challenging than the New Mario Bros. on DS. This to me is a source of great frustration and I simply do not see why Nintendo has to be apologetic with the level designs of its newer games.

I'm going back to Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask versus. Twilight Princess to state my case on console Zeldas. I thought the first two, regardless of my age when I first played them, would still present a greater challenge today than Twilight Princess.

Finally, I still think Phantom Hourglass' difficulty curve was completely 'skewed'. For a long time, it starts out really easy with almost kiddie-dungeons, with easy to beat ennemies -- simply because of that d****d touch control-- then gets harder much too late in the game. But stylus control isn't supposed compromise challenging gameplay, at least not in my book. If it does, let them take it out. Let little boys and girls who like controlling their players like dolls use the stylus. The only game in which I thought the stylus really work were the Metroid series. Can you imagine all future handheld Zeldas controlled by styluses?

My opinion is this: aside from Metroid, Nintendo is taking both the Mario and Zelda series and slightly skewing their difficulty so that they can sell to unsuspecting hardcore gamers, and also start appealing to younger gamers because in this societal age, games are supposed to be apologetic with youngsters. In the 1990's they weren't in any way whatsoever, and Mario games weren't perceived as 'family' games -- they were perceived as MARIO games, with all their charm and challenge -- and an 8 yr old. would (rightly) have to wait years before completing it.

I cannot believe how close this poll is :lol:.stkr

i wonder what these numbers say about nintendo fans. i mean it just goes to show how heterogeneous/split people's reactions are to nintendo's key franchises..

it also means that nintendo has nothing to lose if it kept releasing its games the way it does now (slightly easier, slightly simpler) or whether it made them more difficult.

what are the stakes at hand?

[QUOTE="g_moujaes_2000"][QUOTE="alexh_99"]

Since last E3 four games for the hardcore gamers have come out.

Metroid prime

Super mario galaxy

SSBB

Mario kart.

If four 1st party hardcore games a year dont satisfy (sp?) you then i guess your just to greedy.

This year at E3 they will anounce games for later on this year. Dont worry about it, they had four great games last year and now since they are realesed everyone thinks that is all they had. obviously they have something else up their sleeves for the rest of this year and early next year.

If you dont trust nintendo i guess you should not own a wii

alexh_99

Im sorry, but with all due respect, what is this b***s*** you're giving us?

we're not supposed to bow down to Nintendo or any other company for any reason whatsoever.

Nintendo should want and NEED each and every one of their customers' money. If most people are complaining, who are you to tell us not to own their products? As EASILY as the Wii got popular, it will fall without the support of their hardcore fanbase. And that way you won't see a Mario or Zelda game ever be released again.

I'm tired of the b***s*** that some Nintendo fans are giving others. If YOU trust Nintendo, keep it to yourselves and stop talking to us about what to do. Don't come to threads like this and waste space. We want to complain because we want to be heard. If we get mixed opinions by a minority of hardcore fans who just come here to show their unconditional and blind support, then just stay away. Companies are like animals. If you don't discipline them, they take advantage of you, Nintendo or not Nintendo.

Over and above, this is a serious issue. As many fans have pointed out on this thread Nintendo hasin fact been oversimplifying their games. And you know what? I'm gonna create a new thread to show you. If I'm mistaken about it, then fans like me will shut up and you will have your say. But until then, don't go around telling people not to own Wii's because we're not satisfied. If we're not satisfied, Nintendo Co. goes down with the people that once helped them start their success: the long-term fans.

And I challenge anyone who tells me that the Wii can solely rely on a majority of casual/family gamers to pull through.

So your saying a company that gives us four great games in less than 1 year are not trust worthy? You think that soon they will just say " suckas we are not making anymore games and we got all of your money"!!!..... No thats not going to happen.

Most people (like you) are complaining because nintendo does not have any games that are announced yet. Well they are saving it up for E3 to surprise us big time.

Also about wasting space, i just told the TC that he is greedy because a 1st party to realese 4 major games in one year is amazing. in fact you are the one wasting space saying that nintendo is an animal.

"good nintendo sit, now roll over. Who's a good nintendo? you are! Yes you are"

Over simplifying games. hmm lets see.

Metroid prime = you fail
Mario Galaxy (all the stars) = you fail
LOZ: TP = You fail
Brawl and MK are suppose to be easy games that people can just pick up and play = you fail agian.

some games they want to appeal to both casual and hardcore gamers, others they don't.

Again like i said before if you dont trust nintendo i guess you shouldnt own a wii

who ever said they were 'great'?

alot of people thought they weren't all that. especially MK/LoZ:TP.

And Zelda alone accounts for ALOT.

no matter what anyone has to say about "games getting easier with time and experience/and age".. (which I somewhat agree with) -- I still go back to Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask versus Twilight Princess gameplay to state my case.

i don't think gaming experience would have made any difference whatsoever. Whether I play OoT now or whether I played it 7 years ago, I still think that it would present significantly more challenge and exploration depth than Twilight Princess.

I read somewhere someone posting on threads that Hyrule of TP was a very 'vast' and pretty looking Hyrule, but also very 'empty' at the same time. Same goes to the level design of Kakariko Village. In OoT, it was simply more 'complexe' more concentrated in terms of exploration than Kakariko of TP, even though the latter had arguably more breadth.

If I gave myself the time, I could think of other level designs in TP that are more 'simplified' or shallower than past Zelda games.

i wanted to say mainly that Kart 64 had more depth and *difficulty* than Double Dash because I had only tried the Wii version.

i just think that, although there were little to no unlockables in 64 (i think), it had more lasting appeal, or at least seemed like it did. again, compared to more recent kart experiences, not just exclusively the wii version.

Not that age matters, but I'm quite a bit older than you. When I was a kid I was beating Super Mario Bros at will. The only hard part of the whole game is beating Koopa, but if you get to him with a big man you can run right through him. I might agree that Super Mario World has more hard levels, but that's the only one IMO. Chrono Trigger is the same. Spend time getting the Lode Sword at the festival and the game isn't that hard. Both those things I named are "gimmicks". What about Warp Zones? My thought is that those games seemed harder in the past because you were younger. Now you are older and have experience playing that style it seems to easy. They all seem the same difficulty to me, I've just gotten older and much better at gaming.

Maybe if they had different difficulty levels there wouldn't be a problem. That's not an outrageous request. I could agree with that being a beneficial addition.

I see your point -- it's completely valid and may be completely true as well..

But does that mean that Nintendo has to make the Zelda experience what it is today? I don't see how the experience of Twilight Princess versus Majora's Mask or Ocarina would 'help' Nintendo in any way, mainly because games like Ocarina have always been more like A Link to the Past in terms of difficulty than Twilight Princess is to LttP.

Or is this also a misperception?

Oh, and I am also certainly thinking about GameBoy games/Gameboy Color games as well.

I owned many I considered difficult -- among familiar ones: Link's Awakening, Pokemon Red, the Oracle series, Super Mario Land 1 & 2 for the gameboy... none of these games were considered easy at the time (I was around 10- 12) neither are they so simple to complete now, im fairly certain.

I really see your point about how Nintendo has always been family-oriented -- because ive also given it some thought, thinking "hey, im 19 now, but was a 4 yr old back then as well"..

However, I don't remember the first Super Mario Bros. being as easy as what they're doing now.. neither the Super NES Zelda: A Link to the Past; neither the Final Fantasies, neither Chrono Trigger.. I remember buying those games, I remember having many of them and finishing these games till later in my teens, but I don't remember them being 'easy' or gimmicky.. I just don't.

What do you have to say about this?

i feel like mario kart wii looks and feels much more childish. childish, no other word for it. (coming from a 19 yr old, i dnt know how old u are).

take two levels.. Toad's Raceway from N64 and .. that Daisy track from Wii. (sidenote: havent bought, but played/tried/seen pics from the Wii version)

in terms of gameplay.. the N64 track (toads raceway) seems far more unapologetic in terms of your control/driving skills. this is not a real driving game, but the charm of the n64 toad track was that it looked like it wanted to be realistic but not to the point that it was realism, hence it being humorous or charming.

back to controls. the wii kart controls are sluggish and too simple with wiimote, when, even with the wiimote they shudnt have felt simple. furthermore, ive been hearing people complain about Wii kart being too based on items/random factor than actual control skills

et voila.

[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"]Go complete the "Luigi's purple coins" mission in super mario galaxy and tell me that mario platformers have been dumbed down. I dare you.-Sphere-

lol