Looking at FF6 and FF12 side by side you wouldn't even know they are from the same series..

Turn based combat of one kind or another is the backbone of a classic JRPG. Seeing enemies on the screen instead of enduring random encounters is absolutely nothing new, Chrono Trigger did it very successfully while maintaining turn-based combat. This is not present in FF12.

FF12 looks and plays like a single player MMORPG....FF12 looks and plays nothing like FF6.

chefstubbies

Just so you know, FFVI is not turn-based. If you start a battle and put the controller down the monsters won't wait for you to take your turn. They'll kill you.

Anyway, the combat systems in the two games are more alike than they look on the surface. In both VI and XII you have time gauges that must fill before your characters can act. In VI you wait for the gauge to fill, then select an action, then said action is executed. In XII you (or your gambits) select an action, then wait for the gauge to fill, then said action is executed. It feels very much like a Final Fantasy-type battle system, aside from the fact that battles take place in the field and you are allowed to run around freely while they're going on.

Streets of SimCity has some catchy tunes.

[QUOTE="TleilaxuMaster"]

Gambits are not a "computer controlled battle system". They are a convenience.

It's fine if you didn't like the characters in FFXII; that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. Same with the story, though it really isn't hard to follow if you're paying even the slightest bit of attention. Hey, feel free to hate all the gameplay mechanics if you want; I don't expect to change your mind. But don't try to tell me that XII is Final Fantasy in name only. That's such an obviously false statement it makes me question whether you've even played the game at all.

chefstubbies

-I absolutely agree, gambits are a convenience...a completely unnecessary convenience which is why I feel it is so weak.

-I never claimed nor even insinuated that the story in FF12 was in any way hard to follow...I said I felt it was boring and convoluted.

-You are contradicting yourself. On one hand you give the impression that FF6 and FF12 are worlds apart (graphics, world map, bestiary, battle system), but then you turn around and say that I made a false statement in saying that FF12 does not feel at all like a Final Fantasy game.

...Which one is it:question:

-Pretty much all conveniences are unnecessary. That's kind of the point: to take something that's normally difficult or frustrating or time-consuming or otherwise not fun and make it easier. You can still do things the old way if you really want to, but why would you? Is it really that important to you to have to open up a menu and select "Attack" every time you want someone to do something?

-In that case I apologize for the misunderstanding. I'd call the story complex, interesting, and well-written, myself. But you clearly disagree, and neither of us is going to change our mind anytime soon, so I'll leave it at that.

-I see no contradiction. Updated graphics do not disqualify FFXII from being a Final Fantasy game. A detailed, interesting world does not disqualify FFXII from being a Final Fantasy game. The gambit system is new, but the underlying battle mechanics on which it's built very much have that Final Fantasy feel.

If you want to tell me what it is about FFXII that somehow makes it not a Final Fantasy, I'd like to hear it.

"I want to be a blitzball when I grow up!" -random kid, Final Fantasy X

"This guy are sick." -Aeris, Final Fantasy VII

"Beep... beep... beep... beep..." -Leonard Nimoy quoting the Sputnik I satellite, Civilization IV

I've got a few things to respond to here so please bear with me.

Yeah, and I'm quite sure the good folks from the future who have played FFXX, would think that XII is horrible and wouldn't understand how anyone could, unless they're wearing nostalgia goggles or something. ...Oh what? Fail logic.KhanhAgE

I understand perfectly well that most games don't stand the test of time. It already happened to FFVI. I'm sure it will happen at some point to FFXII. So what point are you trying to make exactly?

-So you don't like random encounters. Fair enough, neither do I.

-Gambits were implemented for people who can't walk and chew gum at the same time...a computer controlled battle system is just weak.

-You don't like FF6's world because of graphics?...

-You don't like FF6's characters just because of graphics?...

Final Fantasy 12 was utter horse crap disguised as a poor man's MMORPG...bland unlikeable characters, boring conviluded story, other than the title there is absolutely nothing Final Fantasy about 12.

chefstubbies

Gambits are not a "computer controlled battle system". They are a convenience. They let you tell your characters exactly what you want them to do without making you open a menu every time you want them to do it. If your gambits aren't working out you can tweak them or override them by issuing commands manually. Or if you really miss selecting "Attack" over and over again for some reason, you can turn gambits off entirely and pretend it's 1995. But there's no denying that you, not the computer, are in complete control the entire time.

I'm not necessarily saying there's something wrong with the world/characters in FFVI. But the fact of the matter is that the world/characters in FFXII are so much more detailed and interesting and do a much better job of drawing me into the experience. Graphics are part of that, sure, but they aren't the only reason. As an example, the bestiary entries in FFXII add so much more to the world than anything in FFVI.

It's fine if you didn't like the characters in FFXII; that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. Same with the story, though it really isn't hard to follow if you're paying even the slightest bit of attention. Hey, feel free to hate all the gameplay mechanics if you want; I don't expect to change your mind. But don't try to tell me that XII is Final Fantasy in name only. That's such an obviously false statement it makes me question whether you've even played the game at all.

I liked XII, much more than VII,VIII, and X but it has some bad flaws..one is named Vaan.texasgoldrush

So what's wrong with Vaan? Other than the fact that he needs to put on a T-shirt, that is.

[QUOTE="TleilaxuMaster"]

Final Fantasy XII has monsters right there on the field that you can fight without a separate battle screen, or avoid altogether if you wish. Final Fantasy VI has random popup encounters every five or six steps.

Final Fantasy XII has gambits which reduce the tedium of battles. Final Fantasy VI has "press X until all the monsters are dead".

Final Fantasy XII has a huge, beautiful, detailed world to explore. Final Fantasy VI has a world map with pictures of trees and houses on it.

Final Fantasy XII has characters with voices and facial expressions and body language. Final Fantasy VI has 2D sprites who blink a lot and like to jump around.

Those are just a few of the many reasons I like XII over VI. Whether or not you want to believe them is entirely up to you.

texasgoldrush

You know, I'm really tempted to reply "newer =/= worse" or "older =/= better" and just leave it at that, but that wouldn't accomplish anything.

You're right that newer does not necessarily equal better. But in this case, it actually kind of does. Random encounters are irritating and break up the flow of the game, so not having them is a good thing. A highly detailed, beautiful world draws you in much more easily than a flat world map. Characters' voices and facial expressions and body language allow them to more effectively convey their emotions than 2D sprites, which helps make the overall experience that much more engaging.

Also newer =/= worse and older =/= better. :-P

[QUOTE="TleilaxuMaster"]

Final Fantasy XII is number one in the series, based on my experience. VI is mediocre at best. I wouldn't even put it in the top five, and I don't understand how anyone could, unless they're wearing nostalgia goggles or something.

Ragnarok1051

Final Fantasy XII has monsters right there on the field that you can fight without a separate battle screen, or avoid altogether if you wish. Final Fantasy VI has random popup encounters every five or six steps.

Final Fantasy XII has gambits which reduce the tedium of battles. Final Fantasy VI has "press X until all the monsters are dead".

Final Fantasy XII has a huge, beautiful, detailed world to explore. Final Fantasy VI has a world map with pictures of trees and houses on it.

Final Fantasy XII has characters with voices and facial expressions and body language. Final Fantasy VI has 2D sprites who blink a lot and like to jump around.

Those are just a few of the many reasons I like XII over VI. Whether or not you want to believe them is entirely up to you.

[QUOTE="TleilaxuMaster"]

Final Fantasy XII is number one in the series, based on my experience. VI is mediocre at best. I wouldn't even put it in the top five, and I don't understand how anyone could, unless they're wearing nostalgia goggles or something.

texasgoldrush

Even if I agreed that VI's story and cast of characters are better than XII's (and for the record, I don't), we're not talking about books or movies here where all you have to do is sit and read/watch. Gameplay is important. And in that area XII is clearly superior.

Final Fantasy XII is number one in the series, based on my experience. VI is mediocre at best. I wouldn't even put it in the top five, and I don't understand how anyone could, unless they're wearing nostalgia goggles or something.

[QUOTE="KhanhAgE"]Was this thread created so the FF7 fanbois could come and dump their hate on FF8? Well, I thought FF6 was better than FF7.M_1_A_M_I

And yet you left out FFIX, which is also for the same console... :?

Not that it matters to me, though. I thought FFIX was the weakest of the three PS FFs. My vote goes to FFVIII. I like the junction system.

And IMHO FFVI isn't anywhere near the best in the series.