[QUOTE="Kiuk"]

Grief? So you do rather let someone commit a crime first so they could feel that grief you talk about of?. Have you committed a crime? How do you know of this grief? You talk as if everyone is gonna feels the same way about things they do, therefore that point of view is wrong in some many ways.

GabuEx

How does one become rehabilitated when that person does not give a damn about what he did? Grief is the first step to rehabilitation, and given that the premise of this thread supposes that people have been completely rehabilitated, that would be impossible without the creation of a feeling of grief for what the person did.

[QUOTE="Kiuk"]

And you know this how? Common sense, even when children we are educated out of fear, our parents tell us what's right or wrong and let us know that there'll be punishment if we do wrong, so most likely we don't do it if the punishment is severe enough in our eyes. Same principle applies, if you didn't give people consequences of their actions they would just go and do it. That's why when you know something can go wrong, you think twice about doing it.By removing long sentences you pretty much take away all the "bad things that could happen if i do that".

GabuEx

You deny that intense, inescapable grief at something you have done and which you cannot change is worse than sitting in a jail cell?

[QUOTE="Kiuk"]

You didn't get me . Im talking about everybody else, if other people knew that anyone could get away with something just once, they would do it no questions asked. And you would see a massive load of crimes like never before, one time only but crimes nevertheless. Fear is our most powerful asset to keep people at bay, and by letting something like that just slip, more people would do the same knowing that there would be no real consequences.

GabuEx

And you know this how?

Intense, inescapable grief at the thought of something you did is a far worse punishment for something than just having to sit in a jail cell.

I'm kind of appalled at all the let the criminal go supporters here. Or perhaps I'm misreading some posts.

What about the victim of the crime? In this case a rape victim.

The rapist should just be cured and released? He still raped someone. There should ABSOLUTELY be punishment. Curing them of their "sickness" isn't punishment.

Remorse is great, but they can be remorseful in a jail cell for a year or two. While paying for the victim's medical bills and any other psychological treatment.

airshocker

If this person was 100% rehabilitated and incredibly remorseful, what would be the purpose of that punishment? Payment for the victim's medical bills and any other treatment I would be fine with; like I said, that would part of making amends. But I don't exactly see what purpose locking the person up in a jail cell would serve.

And you know this how? Common sense, even when children we are educated out of fear, our parents tell us what's right or wrong and let us know that there'll be punishment if we do wrong, so most likely we don't do it if the punishment is severe enough in our eyes. Same principle applies, if you didn't give people consequences of their actions they would just go and do it. That's why when you know something can go wrong, you think twice about doing it.By removing long sentences you pretty much take away all the "bad things that could happen if i do that".

[QUOTE="Kiuk"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

I'm getting the sense, in reading through thiis thread, that people don't understand what a mental exercise is. :P If the proposed initial premise is that this person is guaranteed to be 100% rehabilitated, a proper response is not to deny the possibility of that premise. That's missing the whole point; the point is to examine whether you believe the purpose of punishment in prison should be for rehabilitation or just for the sake of the punishment itself.

At any rate, I recall already having this conversation, and my position remains unchanged: if the person is known 100% to be rehabilitated, then there is no further purpose to punishment. (Of course, in real life it's impossible to know 100% that the person is rehabilitated, but, again, that is completely not the point.)

GabuEx

If someone who committed a terrible crime was truly rehabilitated so that they no longer wanted to ever do it again, I cannot imagine how that would come about without the person feeling intense remorse for their crime. People who commit a crime and then don't give a **** about it generally are not the sort who would never do it again.

I'm getting the sense, in reading through thiis thread, that people don't understand what a mental exercise is. :P If the proposed initial premise is that this person is guaranteed to be 100% rehabilitated, a proper response is not to deny the possibility of that premise. That's missing the whole point; the point is to examine whether you believe the purpose of punishment in prison should be for rehabilitation or just for the sake of the punishment itself.

At any rate, I recall already having this conversation, and my position remains unchanged: if the person is known 100% to be rehabilitated, then there is no further purpose to punishment. (Of course, in real life it's impossible to know 100% that the person is rehabilitated, but, again, that is completely not the point.)

GabuEx

You guys are missing the point, whether it works or not its not up to debate, we're after the moral issues that come with this only.Would it be okay to let him go just like that because he cannot commit the same crime anymore. And i stand by my point, if you let people walk away just like that more people will follow because they know there'll be no real punishment , they'll be like " hey i can rape someone and nothing will happen this will surely be an experience of a lifetime" That's i believe it would be pointless since more replicas would follow

[QUOTE="Kiuk"]

No offense but this makes no sense. If there was a treatment for everyone who committed rape and they could walk away unpunished , then you would see lots of kids saying "hey I can rape someone and get away with it. awesome lets do it" This would just increase the number of rape victims.

Prison exists for a good reason, to incite fear in other possible criminals. In life that's how our parents raised us, through fear, knowing you could get punished stopped you from doing many things in the past, this applies to everyone.

BiancaDK

Yes values do matter but just like everything they're not absolute. Even the person with the best values in the world can go wrong when put in the worst case scenario. So fear is still the most valuable asset to keep people in line, and it has worked out somehow so far.

No offense but this makes no sense. If there was a treatment for everyone who committed rape and they could walk away unpunished , then you would see lots of kids saying "hey I can rape someone and get away with it. awesome lets do it" This would just increase the number of rape victims.

Prison exists for a good reason, to incite fear in other possible criminals. In life that's how our parents raised us, through fear, knowing you could get punished stopped you from doing many things in the past, this applies to everyone.