Are casual gamers ruining your gaming experience?

i don't think minor things like death perks or anything is (lets just call it) "casualizing" a game and i have no problem with it. However i have a problem with games dumbing down their combat systems, or adding (or removing) components to the game that drastically change the gaming experience. Look at Fable 2 and Mass Effect 2, this is an example of dumbing down in a positive way. Yes there were many less guns in mass effect 2, and the fable 2 controls were formed to button mash, BUT they stayed true to "hardcore" gamers by having hard to find/purchase upgrades in ME2 and having more complex combat deviants in fable 2 to make it more skillful (along with more experience for more skillful kills). Halo reach removing number grades is something i have a problem with, because all you have to do is play alot. but then again, is that one's definition of a hardcore gamer? The line is blurry for me, but i do feel angry at wii for several releases that don't feel like full games because they are short, easy and catered to people who've never picked up a controller.

My beef lies with the industry shifting towards pleasing the more casual gamer. I have nothing against casual gamers; however, what I do have a problem with is the fact that developers are more or less "dumbing down" (and I use that term loosely) their games to appeal to casual gamers, leaving those of us that have grown and evolved with the industry for many years, left wondering why our games no longer have the edge and challenge they once had. Then again, I understand that gaming is my hobby, but to developers it is a business and your main goal in business is revenue. They need to appeal to a wider base to bring in more revenue and I understand and respect that...I simply don't like it! :)

MsCortana

i dont get what youre trying to say. You dont like noobs?kelvin53778

[QUOTE="kelvin53778"]i dont get what youre trying to say. You dont like noobs?jad206

[QUOTE="jad206"][QUOTE="kelvin53778"]i dont get what youre trying to say. You dont like noobs?slvrraven9

i don't think minor things like death perks or anything is (lets just call it) "casualizing" a game and i have no problem with it. However i have a problem with games dumbing down their combat systems, or adding (or removing) components to the game that drastically change the gaming experience. Look at Fable 2 and Mass Effect 2, this is an example of dumbing down in a positive way. Yes there were many less guns in mass effect 2, and the fable 2 controls were formed to button mash, BUT they stayed true to "hardcore" gamers by having hard to find/purchase upgrades in ME2 and having more complex combat deviants in fable 2 to make it more skillful (along with more experience for more skillful kills). Halo reach removing number grades is something i have a problem with, because all you have to do is play alot. but then again, is that one's definition of a hardcore gamer? The line is blurry for me, but i do feel angry at wii for several releases that don't feel like full games because they are short, easy and catered to people who've never picked up a controller.

Keving7

going to have to majorly disagree there, they turned Mass Effect from an RPG to a 3PS with some RPG elements. It was oversimplified, there was no real character building challenge (like 5 stats and you could respec), and the 'new guns' didnt really feel like an upgrade. The citadel became 3 levels of nothing, exploration was negated. The game was a joke compared to its predecessor

[QUOTE="slvrraven9"][QUOTE="jad206"] Noob do ruin a lot of games though.jad206

[QUOTE="jad206"]

[QUOTE="slvrraven9"] hey everybody had a start somewhere. some just earlier than others. noobs become elites too...craigalan23

[QUOTE="craigalan23"][QUOTE="jad206"] Is that why 99% of all the games on Bad Co 2. is just my squad doing it? They just started? A few noobs is fine, but when it is a whole team who can't play it gets annoying/

chaoscougar1

[QUOTE="slvrraven9"][QUOTE="jad206"] Noob do ruin a lot of games though.jad206

I don't mind deathstreaks.. how often does that hinder your gameplay? I think it's great that games are becoming more mainstream. We're starting to see games that are catering to wider audiences and adding more to their replay value. This means bigger budgets on games, more production value, better online. Sure, some games like Gears 2 are horribly broken (you mentioned the double melee and so on) but I don't believe that's due to the mainstream success of gaming. I think that's the company that made the game messing up the game.

And since when is a casual gamer someone who is just getting into games? You're totally misinterpreting the term. A casual gamer is someone who loves video games just as much as a hardcore gamer, only casual gamers don't spend every waking moment on their systems trying to play games.A casual gamer is someone who balances their normal life with a little bit of playing in it. And it has absolutely nothing to do with skill. Casual gamer does not equal bad gamer. What you should be worried about is the family/children oriented games that are popping up especially now that Kinect is coming out. wwervin

Every waking moment...are you serious? I doubt he's the only one "misinterpreting". :roll:

[QUOTE="wwervin"]I don't mind deathstreaks.. how often does that hinder your gameplay? I think it's great that games are becoming more mainstream. We're starting to see games that are catering to wider audiences and adding more to their replay value. This means bigger budgets on games, more production value, better online. Sure, some games like Gears 2 are horribly broken (you mentioned the double melee and so on) but I don't believe that's due to the mainstream success of gaming. I think that's the company that made the game messing up the game.

And since when is a casual gamer someone who is just getting into games? You're totally misinterpreting the term. A casual gamer is someone who loves video games just as much as a hardcore gamer, only casual gamers don't spend every waking moment on their systems trying to play games.A casual gamer is someone who balances their normal life with a little bit of playing in it. And it has absolutely nothing to do with skill. Casual gamer does not equal bad gamer. What you should be worried about is the family/children oriented games that are popping up especially now that Kinect is coming out. Blazed

Every waking moment...are you serious? I doubt he's the only one "misinterpreting". :roll:

Am i reading this correctly? Gears 3 buffs new players? Guess what game im not buying. =)wii60_3

Do I feel casual gamers are ruining our community? Most of the people who think they're hardcore are really casual. And no they don't ruin my experience. I game because it's fun. It's been my hobby since I was 3 and I'm 27 now, I don't know about YOU but I welcome the added popularity to gaming. I don't like being looked at as a nerd because I like to play games. Because I'm not that guy who is socially inept and pimple faced living in some basement. Just my perspective.

Do I feel casual gamers are ruining our community? Most of the people who think they're hardcore are really casual. And no they don't ruin my experience. I game because it's fun. It's been my hobby since I was 3 and I'm 27 now, I don't know about YOU but I welcome the added popularity to gaming. I don't like being looked at as a nerd because I like to play games. Because I'm not that guy who is socially inept and pimple faced living in some basement. Just my perspective.

blackgamer1213

I've already said that I welcomed the new players to our community, several times now. What I don't welcome is the change that I have to deal with because developers feel that in order to make sales they have to handicap gamers who have been around.

On a side note, nice stereotype.

Actually I would say the people with undeserved sense of elitism, who think themselves hardcore gamers; simply because they play Call of Duty are the problem. The so called casual game, has been around since gaming was established; if people weren't so concerned about attempting to elevate themselves based solely on taste, they would would actually know this. But their too busy running around demanding every game be the same and developers make no attempt at creativity; in the name of hardcore gaming. The people who demand that publishers pick pieces out of games, selling it as an incomplete product just to bombard you with DLC and GOTY editions. Those people are doing more damage to my gaming experience than anyone playing Wii Sports. Sepewrath

I don't care what people classify themselves as, in the end a classification system is only human. Humanity, since the beginning of time, has categorized objects, places, or things together into groups to better understand and describe them. I simply used this system to better express my opinion. I also think you'll find that more seasoned gamers constantly complain that game developers make games that are exact replicas of their previous work more than casual gamers who are new to the industry.

Also, it's not the community demanding that games are shipped out with DLC and GOTY editions, its the developers either trying to add more features to a game or trying to raise the sales of their game once it's been released for a year. If you feel cheated out of a full games simply because the developer produced additional features to a game and then decided to sell it in one complete package after a year of it's release than maybe you need to consider waiting for these deals to happen.

making games accessible to casual gamers is great for expanding the gaming community and companies to continue making the games. I like that my son and females are able to play games with me. Its enhancing my gaming experience with the ladies if ya know what I mean ;)

making games accessible to casual gamers is great for expanding the gaming community and companies to continue making the games. I like that my son and females are able to play games with me. Its enhancing my gaming experience with the ladies if ya know what I mean ;)

BLAS1AN

But why should I suffer a nerf for someone to experience "fun"? Why do I have to be held back so that others are enjoying themselves more simply because I'm better than them? I paid the same price they paid for the game? Am I not entitled to the same experience? Why does the game have to bend rules simply because you aren't good enough, or new?

[QUOTE="BLAS1AN"]

making games accessible to casual gamers is great for expanding the gaming community and companies to continue making the games. I like that my son and females are able to play games with me. Its enhancing my gaming experience with the ladies if ya know what I mean ;)

DamianAlexander

But why should I suffer a nerf for someone to experience "fun"? Why do I have to be held back so that others are enjoying themselves more simply because I'm better than them? I paid the same price they paid for the game? Am I not entitled to the same experience? Why does the game have to bend rules simply because you aren't good enough, or new?

[QUOTE="DamianAlexander"]

[QUOTE="BLAS1AN"]

making games accessible to casual gamers is great for expanding the gaming community and companies to continue making the games. I like that my son and females are able to play games with me. Its enhancing my gaming experience with the ladies if ya know what I mean ;)

GFugue

But why should I suffer a nerf for someone to experience "fun"? Why do I have to be held back so that others are enjoying themselves more simply because I'm better than them? I paid the same price they paid for the game? Am I not entitled to the same experience? Why does the game have to bend rules simply because you aren't good enough, or new?

See, you're just seeing the beginning of this feature, I'm thinking of the future. What happens when games set up buffs to players simply for just not being familiar with it? Or not being good at it? And why apply this buff in a ranked gametype where I am supposed to be placed in an equal environmentto over come my opponent in order to win?

Even if this buff is so insignificant that it's laughable, it still changes the balance.

[QUOTE="DamianAlexander"]

[QUOTE="BLAS1AN"]

making games accessible to casual gamers is great for expanding the gaming community and companies to continue making the games. I like that my son and females are able to play games with me. Its enhancing my gaming experience with the ladies if ya know what I mean ;)

GFugue

But why should I suffer a nerf for someone to experience "fun"? Why do I have to be held back so that others are enjoying themselves more simply because I'm better than them? I paid the same price they paid for the game? Am I not entitled to the same experience? Why does the game have to bend rules simply because you aren't good enough, or new?

thank you. The elements there incorporating into the game are not going to turn anyone into a pro overnight. The copycat and painkill perk didnt help me dominate instantly. It helped me gradually learn the game and become better. Painkiller is not going to cause you to get a 15 kill streak.

You still have to have skills to get kills. GEARS 3 will give newbies added health and then after a while take that feature off as mention by Cliffy B. I have no problem with that

[QUOTE="GFugue"]

[QUOTE="DamianAlexander"]

But why should I suffer a nerf for someone to experience "fun"? Why do I have to be held back so that others are enjoying themselves more simply because I'm better than them? I paid the same price they paid for the game? Am I not entitled to the same experience? Why does the game have to bend rules simply because you aren't good enough, or new?

DamianAlexander

See, you're just seeing the beginning of this feature, I'm thinking of the future. What happens when games set up buffs to players simply for just not being familiar with it? Or not being good at it? And why apply this buff in a ranked gametype where I am supposed to be placed in an equal environmentto over come my opponent in order to win?

Even if this buff is so insignificant that it's laughable, it still changes the balance.

there are always going to be game types that will accommodate the hard core gamer. (Hardcore mode in MW2, arena mode in Halo reach, Realism mode LFD2, no respawn...etc)

Yes. This explains it all.

[QUOTE="DamianAlexander"]

[QUOTE="GFugue"]

I'd consider your complaint valid if I had ever played a game where I felt hindered due to that initial buff some companies give to those who just started playing the game. Usually, the benefits any said player gets are available to all players, given they achieve some sort of pre-requisite (Die four times in a row, for an example).

BLAS1AN

See, you're just seeing the beginning of this feature, I'm thinking of the future. What happens when games set up buffs to players simply for just not being familiar with it? Or not being good at it? And why apply this buff in a ranked gametype where I am supposed to be placed in an equal environmentto over come my opponent in order to win?

Even if this buff is so insignificant that it's laughable, it still changes the balance.

there are always going to be game types that will accommodate the hard core gamer. (Hardcore mode in MW2, arena mode in Halo reach, Realism mode LFD2, no respawn...etc)

That is true, but they are still placing these buffs in ranked gametypes. You're telling me that I have to steer clear of one gametype that ranks me for how well I can play the game against other players given the same options because the game now gives newcomers a buff? You're telling me that I should just stay clear of part of the game that is supposed to be a competitive gametype that rates you for how well you can overcome an opposite based on being given a balanced arena because it now gives new players an edge?

You're perfectly fine with people getting double HP and Double damage against you simply because the game developers want them to tell their friends "Hey! Look how much fun I'm having!" because the game is in favor of them winning? I guess I'm just more competitive than you? I guess I just like being given a balanced online.

If this were a RTS, you'd be completely fine with the newcomer playing the over powered race against you in a game where it would count towards your W/L ratio?

If this were a FPS, you'd be completely fine with the newcomer using a much more powerful gun that also had faster reload speeds and better accuracy with no recoil in a game where it would count towards your W/L ratio?

If this were an RPG you'd be completely fine with the newcomer being several levels higher than you with more abilities, spells, and equipment in a game where it would count towards your W/L ratio?

And please, spare me with the "I don't care about my W/L ratio. I play to have fun" because nobody plays a game to lose consecutively.

[QUOTE="BLAS1AN"]

[QUOTE="DamianAlexander"]

See, you're just seeing the beginning of this feature, I'm thinking of the future. What happens when games set up buffs to players simply for just not being familiar with it? Or not being good at it? And why apply this buff in a ranked gametype where I am supposed to be placed in an equal environmentto over come my opponent in order to win?

Even if this buff is so insignificant that it's laughable, it still changes the balance.

DamianAlexander

there are always going to be game types that will accommodate the hard core gamer. (Hardcore mode in MW2, arena mode in Halo reach, Realism mode LFD2, no respawn...etc)

That is true, but they are still placing these buffs in ranked gametypes. You're telling me that I have to steer clear of one gametype that ranks me for how well I can play the game against other players given the same options because the game now gives newcomers a buff? You're telling me that I should just stay clear of part of the game that is supposed to be a competitive gametype that rates you for how well you can overcome an opposite based on being given a balanced arena because it now gives new players a the edge?

You're perfectly fine with people getting double HP and Double damage against you simply because the game developers want them to tell their friends "Hey! Look how much fun I'm having!" because the game is in favor of them winning? I guess I'm just more competitive than you? I guess I just like being given a balanced online.

If this were a RTS, you'd be completely fine with the newcomer playing the over powered race against you in a game where it would count towards your W/L ratio?

If this were a FPS, you'd be completely fine with the newcomer using a much more powerful gun that also had faster reload speeds and better accuracy with no recoil in a game where it would count towards your W/L ratio?

If this were an RPG you'd be completely fine with the newcomer being several levels higher than you with more abilities, spells, and equipment in a game where it would count towards your W/L ratio?

And please, spare me with the "I don't care about my W/L ratio. I play to have fun" because nobody plays a game to lose consecutively.

If you feel that it is a burden for you to select game types that are catered to the hard core gamer then you need to find another game. I say that because there are games out there that have no handicap for newbs.

i do play competitively and care about K/D ratio by the way but yes I do welcome games that allow more people to play and turn them into fans of the game.

making games more accessible to more gamers is fueling the industry to continue to make games for us.

with all the added benefits your mention for newcomers... at the end of the day you still have to control your character to kill the opposition.

[QUOTE="DamianAlexander"]

[QUOTE="BLAS1AN"]

there are always going to be game types that will accommodate the hard core gamer. (Hardcore mode in MW2, arena mode in Halo reach, Realism mode LFD2, no respawn...etc)

BLAS1AN

That is true, but they are still placing these buffs in ranked gametypes. You're telling me that I have to steer clear of one gametype that ranks me for how well I can play the game against other players given the same options because the game now gives newcomers a buff? You're telling me that I should just stay clear of part of the game that is supposed to be a competitive gametype that rates you for how well you can overcome an opposite based on being given a balanced arena because it now gives new players a the edge?

You're perfectly fine with people getting double HP and Double damage against you simply because the game developers want them to tell their friends "Hey! Look how much fun I'm having!" because the game is in favor of them winning? I guess I'm just more competitive than you? I guess I just like being given a balanced online.

If this were a RTS, you'd be completely fine with the newcomer playing the over powered race against you in a game where it would count towards your W/L ratio?

If this were a FPS, you'd be completely fine with the newcomer using a much more powerful gun that also had faster reload speeds and better accuracy with no recoil in a game where it would count towards your W/L ratio?

If this were an RPG you'd be completely fine with the newcomer being several levels higher than you with more abilities, spells, and equipment in a game where it would count towards your W/L ratio?

And please, spare me with the "I don't care about my W/L ratio. I play to have fun" because nobody plays a game to lose consecutively.

If you feel that it is a burden for you to select game types that are catered to the hard core gamer then you need to find another game. I say that because there are games out there that have no handicap for newbs.

i do play competitively and care about K/D ratio by the way but yes I do welcome games that allow more people to play and turn them into fans of the game.

making games more accessible to more gamers is fueling the industry to continue to make games for us.

with all the added benefits your mention for newcomers... at the end of the day you still have to control your character to kill the opposition.

I feel it's unfair to be ranked against people who have a buff above me. By definition, it's unfair. I would not care if these buffs were used in a gametype that wasn't ranked. There's a reason they invented private and social gametypes.

I welcome games to become open towards anybody, I do not welcome unfair tactics to get a game to sell better by giving others an unfair advantage over me. Why should I be nerfed so a newcomer can have more fun and buy more games? Why should I be held back so that others can strive in a competitive sport where the playing field is supposed to be completely balanced?

Using these unfair tactics to promote sales should never be welcomed by us.

nahw, there fun, easy to kill, funny to listen to and easy to trick them, eg. yes you press Y for parachute, Presses Y, nothing happens, AHAHAHAHAHJA!

[QUOTE="BLAS1AN"]

[QUOTE="DamianAlexander"]

That is true, but they are still placing these buffs in ranked gametypes. You're telling me that I have to steer clear of one gametype that ranks me for how well I can play the game against other players given the same options because the game now gives newcomers a buff? You're telling me that I should just stay clear of part of the game that is supposed to be a competitive gametype that rates you for how well you can overcome an opposite based on being given a balanced arena because it now gives new players a the edge?

You're perfectly fine with people getting double HP and Double damage against you simply because the game developers want them to tell their friends "Hey! Look how much fun I'm having!" because the game is in favor of them winning? I guess I'm just more competitive than you? I guess I just like being given a balanced online.

If this were a RTS, you'd be completely fine with the newcomer playing the over powered race against you in a game where it would count towards your W/L ratio?

If this were a FPS, you'd be completely fine with the newcomer using a much more powerful gun that also had faster reload speeds and better accuracy with no recoil in a game where it would count towards your W/L ratio?

If this were an RPG you'd be completely fine with the newcomer being several levels higher than you with more abilities, spells, and equipment in a game where it would count towards your W/L ratio?

And please, spare me with the "I don't care about my W/L ratio. I play to have fun" because nobody plays a game to lose consecutively.

DamianAlexander

If you feel that it is a burden for you to select game types that are catered to the hard core gamer then you need to find another game. I say that because there are games out there that have no handicap for newbs.

i do play competitively and care about K/D ratio by the way but yes I do welcome games that allow more people to play and turn them into fans of the game.

making games more accessible to more gamers is fueling the industry to continue to make games for us.

with all the added benefits your mention for newcomers... at the end of the day you still have to control your character to kill the opposition.

I feel it's unfair to be ranked against people who have a buff above me. By definition, it's unfair. I would not care if these buffs were used in a gametype that wasn't ranked. There's a reason they invented private and social gametypes.

I welcome games to become open towards anybody, I do not welcome unfair tactics to get a game to sell better by giving others an unfair advantage over me. Why should I be nerfed so a newcomer can have more fun and buy more games? Why should I be held back so that others can strive in a competitive sport where the playing field is supposed to be completely balanced?

Using these unfair tactics to promote sales should never be welcomed by us.

If you dont want to play hard core game types or any game with perks for newbs then here ya go

FPS: Operation Flashpoint, Armed Assault, Red Orchestra, Insurgency, America's Army, Arma 2

No, thats just consoles lols

casual gamers are the future of gaming, there is nothing we can do about that. I mean look at the wii.

But hardcore games will never die. But yes casual gamers are ruining my gaming experience.

i get sick of designers incorperating casual gamer buffs or power ups so that noobs who suck at games can play the game. There are other ways of balancing a game without literally screwing my experience. like matchmaking so that they gauge skill depending on level or stats. like halo 3.

I hate games for noobs for example MW2. I hate that game. The first one was awesome but the second one completely ruined multiplayer with insane killstreak power ups so that noobs can get a chance to win.

If you want to play a game online then get good.

[QUOTE="Blazed"]

[QUOTE="wwervin"]I don't mind deathstreaks.. how often does that hinder your gameplay? I think it's great that games are becoming more mainstream. We're starting to see games that are catering to wider audiences and adding more to their replay value. This means bigger budgets on games, more production value, better online. Sure, some games like Gears 2 are horribly broken (you mentioned the double melee and so on) but I don't believe that's due to the mainstream success of gaming. I think that's the company that made the game messing up the game.

And since when is a casual gamer someone who is just getting into games? You're totally misinterpreting the term. A casual gamer is someone who loves video games just as much as a hardcore gamer, only casual gamers don't spend every waking moment on their systems trying to play games.A casual gamer is someone who balances their normal life with a little bit of playing in it. And it has absolutely nothing to do with skill. Casual gamer does not equal bad gamer. What you should be worried about is the family/children oriented games that are popping up especially now that Kinect is coming out. wwervin

Every waking moment...are you serious? I doubt he's the only one "misinterpreting". :roll: