Interesting 3DS CPU Info

I found this recently

www.3dsbuzz.com/3ds-forum/nintendo-3ds-hardware-10/nintendo-3ds-cpu-processor-wth-1473/

It's people discussing the CPU inside the 3DS, one of the users manages to track down possibly the CPU and its speeds, etc based on the info iFixit found after tearing down the 3DS (you know the place that discovered the 3DS has 128MB RAM, instead of the 64MB IGN reported last year)

Basically what they found was the 3DS's CPU model number leads to a CPU with up to 4 cores, and a clock speed of (the lowest) 800Mhz to 1Ghz, among other things (like basic flash support)

Also the user goes to give a link describing the CPU later in that thread

Any thoughts? Has this been debunked? Or does no one really care to look into it further? Seems pretty legit IMO, but I'm certainly no expert. A 800Mhz-1Ghz sounds nice and all, and the fact that this CPU has up to 4 cores (likely the 3DS one has 2 cores) debunks IGN's claim last year that the 3DS had two CPUs at 266Mhz, since tear downs prove it only has one actual ARM 11 CPU, but that it may be dual core instead of Two CPUs like IGN said. (they were also mistaken when they said the 3DS would have 1.5GB internal storage, it has 2GB)

Any ideas if this is for real and what are your thoughts? Nintendo is usually tight lipped about exact specs and what not.

I found this recently

www.3dsbuzz.com/3ds-forum/nintendo-3ds-hardware-10/nintendo-3ds-cpu-processor-wth-1473/

It's people discussing the CPU inside the 3DS, one of the users manages to track down possibly the CPU and its speeds, etc based on the info iFixit found after tearing down the 3DS (you know the place that discovered the 3DS has 128MB RAM, instead of the 64MB IGN reported last year)

Basically what they found was the 3DS's CPU model number leads to a CPU with up to 4 cores, and a clock speed of (the lowest) 800Mhz to 1Ghz, among other things (like basic flash support)

Also the user goes to give a link describing the CPU later in that thread

Any thoughts? Has this been debunked? Or does no one really care to look into it further? Seems pretty legit IMO, but I'm certainly no expert. A 800Mhz-1Ghz sounds nice and all, and the fact that this CPU has up to 4 cores (likely the 3DS one has 2 cores) debunks IGN's claim last year that the 3DS had two CPUs at 266Mhz, since tear downs prove it only has one actual ARM 11 CPU, but that it may be dual core instead of Two CPUs like IGN said. (they were also mistaken when they said the 3DS would have 1.5GB internal storage, it has 2GB)

Any ideas if this is for real and what are your thoughts? Nintendo is usually tight lipped about exact specs and what not.

darth-pyschosis

800-1GHZ in a handheld? Awesome!

I'd imagine Nintendo would clock it down to the lowest speed of 800Mhz. It looks pretty legit. That explains how games like Revelations look so amazing, even in 3D. The 3DS has a solid CPU, GPU, and more RAM than even the Wii. And while I know its hardware isn't entirely on par with the Wii and original Xbox, I'd say we should expect the games to look like Wii/Xbox games in 400x240 on the 3D Screen.darth-pyschosis

I still wish that the 3DS didn't have 3D and upped resolution to 360p, 240p is atrocious.

Yeah they should have bumped the resolution a bit but given the screen size it's not too bad.

Yeah they should have bumped the resolution a bit but given the screen size it's not too bad.

Ghost120x

Yeah the 3ds has some pretty good tech behind it and it seems Capcom is the only one pushing the hardware as of late. I just played ridge racer and it could have looked better imo. I personally think the 3ds could have kept the 250 price point if it weren't for the timing, lack of AAA first/third party software, and the vita price announcement.

As we might know the MCU (yes, not CPU, a slightly difference) of 3DS is probably ARM11 architecture single core unit, custom made for Nintendo purposes only. As you may looked on the mainboard, you'll see a lot of chips - Fujitsu's RAM, Toshiba's NAND flash, MEMS technology gyrosensor and accelerometer, but where the hell is PICA200? My bet is: 1048 0H CPU contains an ARM11 MCU core (maybe even Cortex type) as main processor and PICA200 GPU core as co-processor. It's a cheaper solution than 2 separate chips, becuse both of them can acces the same bus and adress RAM space without collision, share one clock (divided for both chips), and share 3DS's resources.

so the argument is a dual core 800MHz CPU in the 3DS? i find that very hard to believe. i looked at the spec and i see that they say it goes from 800MHz-1GHz. at the end of the day though look at the games. theres nothing that suggests something that could rival an XBOX1 or wii CPU. for example capcom mentioned that one of the reason why revelations will look better than mercenaries is because revelations wont have as many enemies on the screen at any time: http://www.3dsbuzz.com/resident-evil-revelations-will-blow-the-mercenaries-away-graphics-wise/ there is give and take which suggests capcom have hit a wall. less enemies but mroe detail. then theres MGS: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-mgs3-3ds-vs-playstation2 the 3DS version recieves a few upgrades but also a few cutbacks. im not saying that the 3DS is weaker than a PS2 and there are elements of " its a port and a work in progress" but if it really dose have a dual core 800MHz CPU (and 128MB of ram for that matter....i remain unconvinced on that also) then devs wouldnt be running into these problems at all. this lead me to believe that its quite a bit lower than 800MHz. i dont know if its as low as IGN make it out to be but certainly lower.osan0

[QUOTE="osan0"]so the argument is a dual core 800MHz CPU in the 3DS? i find that very hard to believe. i looked at the spec and i see that they say it goes from 800MHz-1GHz. at the end of the day though look at the games. theres nothing that suggests something that could rival an XBOX1 or wii CPU. for example capcom mentioned that one of the reason why revelations will look better than mercenaries is because revelations wont have as many enemies on the screen at any time: http://www.3dsbuzz.com/resident-evil-revelations-will-blow-the-mercenaries-away-graphics-wise/ there is give and take which suggests capcom have hit a wall. less enemies but mroe detail. then theres MGS: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-mgs3-3ds-vs-playstation2 the 3DS version recieves a few upgrades but also a few cutbacks. im not saying that the 3DS is weaker than a PS2 and there are elements of " its a port and a work in progress" but if it really dose have a dual core 800MHz CPU (and 128MB of ram for that matter....i remain unconvinced on that also) then devs wouldnt be running into these problems at all. this lead me to believe that its quite a bit lower than 800MHz. i dont know if its as low as IGN make it out to be but certainly lower.FPS1337

can't they just dismantle it and see what it is?BrunoBRS

Someone did, and it isalmost like I said, except that 1048 0H contains 2 ARM11 MCU core clocked with 268MHz each, PICA200 also clocked with 268MHz and a DSP signal processor.

3DS hardware

The mysterious thing named X1 is a crystal resonator (its basicaly a clock for the processor) with frequency of 16,756MHz used to clock the 3DS game cart.

Auxiliary Microcontroller UC CTR is most likely an I2C colision controller. It watches over the comunication via I2C (same as TWI - Two Wire Interface, I2C is a patent of Philips) and prevents a situation where more than 1 microcontroller wants to transmit. If this occures the UC CTR pops out a flag (single bit) in a transmission start sequence called header letting the most dominant device to transmit further (more dominant in I2C means a device which pops out more 0 bits in the header), and less dominant devices are shutting off with transmitting and waiting for Idle state on SDA (serial data line, Idle means logical 1 for aspecified time) to repeate their message. But this is purely my speculation on UC CTR role ;)

*I would like to point out that the internet address I placed in the link is intended for informational purposes only. My intention is not a violation of the rules of GameSpot.

[QUOTE="FPS1337"][QUOTE="osan0"]so the argument is a dual core 800MHz CPU in the 3DS? i find that very hard to believe. i looked at the spec and i see that they say it goes from 800MHz-1GHz. at the end of the day though look at the games. theres nothing that suggests something that could rival an XBOX1 or wii CPU. for example capcom mentioned that one of the reason why revelations will look better than mercenaries is because revelations wont have as many enemies on the screen at any time: http://www.3dsbuzz.com/resident-evil-revelations-will-blow-the-mercenaries-away-graphics-wise/ there is give and take which suggests capcom have hit a wall. less enemies but mroe detail. then theres MGS: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-mgs3-3ds-vs-playstation2 the 3DS version recieves a few upgrades but also a few cutbacks. im not saying that the 3DS is weaker than a PS2 and there are elements of " its a port and a work in progress" but if it really dose have a dual core 800MHz CPU (and 128MB of ram for that matter....i remain unconvinced on that also) then devs wouldnt be running into these problems at all. this lead me to believe that its quite a bit lower than 800MHz. i dont know if its as low as IGN make it out to be but certainly lower.osan0

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"]can't they just dismantle it and see what it is?demon-zer0

Someone did, and it isalmost like I said, except that 1048 0H contains 2 ARM11 MCU core clocked with 268MHz each, PICA200 also clocked with 268MHz and a DSP signal processor.

3DS hardware

The mysterious thing named X1 is a crystal resonator (its basicaly a clock for the processor) with frequency of 16,756MHz used to clock the 3DS game cart.

Auxiliary Microcontroller UC CTR is most likely an I2C colision controller. It watches over the comunication via I2C (same as TWI - Two Wire Interface, I2C is a patent of Philips) and prevents a situation where more than 1 microcontroller wants to transmit. If this occures the UC CTR pops out a flag (single bit) in a transmission start sequence called header letting the most dominant device to transmit further (more dominant in I2C means a device which pops out more 0 bits in the header), and less dominant devices are shutting off with transmitting and waiting for Idle state on SDA (serial data line, Idle means logical 1 for aspecified time) to repeate their message. But this is purely my speculation on UC CTR role ;)

*I would like to point out that the internet address I placed in the link is intended for informational purposes only. My intention is not a violation of the rules of GameSpot.

[QUOTE="demon-zer0"]

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"]can't they just dismantle it and see what it is?FPS1337

Someone did, and it isalmost like I said, except that 1048 0H contains 2 ARM11 MCU core clocked with 268MHz each, PICA200 also clocked with 268MHz and a DSP signal processor.

3DS hardware

The mysterious thing named X1 is a crystal resonator (its basicaly a clock for the processor) with frequency of 16,756MHz used to clock the 3DS game cart.

Auxiliary Microcontroller UC CTR is most likely an I2C colision controller. It watches over the comunication via I2C (same as TWI - Two Wire Interface, I2C is a patent of Philips) and prevents a situation where more than 1 microcontroller wants to transmit. If this occures the UC CTR pops out a flag (single bit) in a transmission start sequence called header letting the most dominant device to transmit further (more dominant in I2C means a device which pops out more 0 bits in the header), and less dominant devices are shutting off with transmitting and waiting for Idle state on SDA (serial data line, Idle means logical 1 for aspecified time) to repeate their message. But this is purely my speculation on UC CTR role ;)

*I would like to point out that the internet address I placed in the link is intended for informational purposes only. My intention is not a violation of the rules of GameSpot.

Yea, a lot of it seems inaccurate enough. What really makes the CPU not 533Mhz though? 268Mhz, even dual core, is a pretty low clock speed. That's lower than the PS2/PSP. But maybe since its dual core its better, I don't know. They get the 128MB RAM thing right, but everything single teardown states that the 3DS has 2GB Flash memory inside, thus that puts this entire thing into hearsay. (I want some details already) Also, how did they get the clock speeds on the CPU? I know the ARM11 has a general clock speed between 800Mhz and 1Ghz, and that Nintendo may have underclocked it but how would they know the 268Mhz clock speed? The ARM site they link to as proof doesn't, at least it isn't obvious to me, give any info on clock speeds Also, why on earth when DMP and many other places are stating the GPU is 200Mhz, that it is 268Mhz? I don't think it makes much sense for Nintendo to put a lower speed CPU, dual core 268Mhz, but then put a GPU with an even higher clock speed than the Wii's at 268Mhz. Also, why are they the same number? That's highly coincidentally, suspicision, and unlikely. Also the link for the proof about the GPU proves only that it has between 200Mhz and 400Mhz clock speeds All in all, that source seems to have WAY too much inaccurate and non-proven information to be taken as truth. I really don't think we can believe this at all, if anyone can point me in the direction of something that actually has proof of a clock speed on the CPU/GPU I'd love to finally know what they friggin' are!darth-pyschosis

Obviously they mistaken with the NAND Flash capacity, because it's 2GB - info

If the GPU can be clocked from 200 to 400MHz, than 268MHz is quite accurate

Same speed of GPU and MCU provides no time collision - 2 devices works with the same clock, so there is no slower and no faster one, eventually 2 devices can comunicate with eachother without time delay (no faster device means no waiting for the slower one)

ARM11 as a complete MCU, with it's port I/O registers, internal RAM, Flash and EEPROM, Timer/Counter units, Watchdog, Interrupt driver, and other communication units like USART, SPI, I2C, CAN (maybe LIN) - of course should be clocked 800 - 1000MHz, but realize this:

1048 0H contains only MCU's core, so the stuff listet with red is MCU's periphery which are probably shared between both of the MCU's so there was no need to clock it to 1GHz, and lower speed means more stable performance and higher immunity to interferences with lowered chanse of mistake and lower power consumption.

Furthermore every single resource in 3DS is shared - 128MB RAM is shared between MCU core 1, MCU core 2, and GPU's video buffer, same goes for communication protocols, timers, interrupts, buffers, etc. So different clocks would really hinder. Besides, if the 3 MCU's are clocked with the same resonator, this means their operations are phase-correct ans synchronus.

Indicator of processor performance is not the clock speed, but the computing power, so if you do not need to clock MCU with fast clocks, you usually does not.

The only argument of which you speak is that this specification does not make sense to you. And ironically the info given on this disassembly is the most acurate of all for now.

Nintendo doesn't release specs on their devices,because they believe that it's not about how powerful a machine is, but how rewarding and fun the experience of using it is. You remember the DS? It was not a very powerful system, but many people loved it.

[QUOTE="darth-pyschosis"]Yea, a lot of it seems inaccurate enough. What really makes the CPU not 533Mhz though? 268Mhz, even dual core, is a pretty low clock speed. That's lower than the PS2/PSP. But maybe since its dual core its better, I don't know. They get the 128MB RAM thing right, but everything single teardown states that the 3DS has 2GB Flash memory inside, thus that puts this entire thing into hearsay. (I want some details already) Also, how did they get the clock speeds on the CPU? I know the ARM11 has a general clock speed between 800Mhz and 1Ghz, and that Nintendo may have underclocked it but how would they know the 268Mhz clock speed? The ARM site they link to as proof doesn't, at least it isn't obvious to me, give any info on clock speeds Also, why on earth when DMP and many other places are stating the GPU is 200Mhz, that it is 268Mhz? I don't think it makes much sense for Nintendo to put a lower speed CPU, dual core 268Mhz, but then put a GPU with an even higher clock speed than the Wii's at 268Mhz. Also, why are they the same number? That's highly coincidentally, suspicision, and unlikely. Also the link for the proof about the GPU proves only that it has between 200Mhz and 400Mhz clock speeds All in all, that source seems to have WAY too much inaccurate and non-proven information to be taken as truth. I really don't think we can believe this at all, if anyone can point me in the direction of something that actually has proof of a clock speed on the CPU/GPU I'd love to finally know what they friggin' are!demon-zer0

Obviously they mistaken with the NAND Flash capacity, because it's 2GB - info

If the GPU can be clocked from 200 to 400MHz, than 268MHz is quite accurate

Same speed of GPU and MCU provides no time collision - 2 devices works with the same clock, so there is no slower and no faster one, eventually 2 devices can comunicate with eachother without time delay (no faster device means no waiting for the slower one)

ARM11 as a complete MCU, with it's port I/O registers, internal RAM, Flash and EEPROM, Timer/Counter units, Watchdog, Interrupt driver, and other communication units like USART, SPI, I2C, CAN (maybe LIN) - of course should be clocked 800 - 1000MHz, but realize this:

1048 0H contains only MCU's core, so the stuff listet with red is MCU's periphery which are probably shared between both of the MCU's so there was no need to clock it to 1GHz, and lower speed means more stable performance and higher immunity to interferences with lowered chanse of mistake and lower power consumption.

Furthermore every single resource in 3DS is shared - 128MB RAM is shared between MCU core 1, MCU core 2, and GPU's video buffer, same goes for communication protocols, timers, interrupts, buffers, etc. So different clocks would really hinder. Besides, if the 3 MCU's are clocked with the same resonator, this means their operations are phase-correct ans synchronus.

Indicator of processor performance is not the clock speed, but the computing power, so if you do not need to clock MCU with fast clocks, you usually does not.

The only argument of which you speak is that this specification does not make sense to you. And ironically the info given on this disassembly is the most acurate of all for now.

Nintendo doesn't release specs on their devices,because they believe that it's not about how powerful a machine is, but how rewarding and fun the experience of using it is. You remember the DS? It was not a very powerful system, but many people loved it.

Yea, a lot of it seems inaccurate enough. What really makes the CPU not 533Mhz though? 268Mhz, even dual core, is a pretty low clock speed. That's lower than the PS2/PSP. But maybe since its dual core its better, I don't know. They get the 128MB RAM thing right, but everything single teardown states that the 3DS has 2GB Flash memory inside, thus that puts this entire thing into hearsay. (I want some details already) Also, how did they get the clock speeds on the CPU? I know the ARM11 has a general clock speed between 800Mhz and 1Ghz, and that Nintendo may have underclocked it but how would they know the 268Mhz clock speed? The ARM site they link to as proof doesn't, at least it isn't obvious to me, give any info on clock speeds Also, why on earth when DMP and many other places are stating the GPU is 200Mhz, that it is 268Mhz? I don't think it makes much sense for Nintendo to put a lower speed CPU, dual core 268Mhz, but then put a GPU with an even higher clock speed than the Wii's at 268Mhz. Also, why are they the same number? That's highly coincidentally, suspicision, and unlikely. Also the link for the proof about the GPU proves only that it has between 200Mhz and 400Mhz clock speeds All in all, that source seems to have WAY too much inaccurate and non-proven information to be taken as truth. I really don't think we can believe this at all, if anyone can point me in the direction of something that actually has proof of a clock speed on the CPU/GPU I'd love to finally know what they friggin' are!darth-pyschosis

Obviously they mistaken with the NAND Flash capacity, because it's 2GB - info

If the GPU can be clocked from 200 to 400MHz, than 268MHz is quite accurate

Same speed of GPU and MCU provides no time collision - 2 devices works with the same clock, so there is no slower and no faster one, eventually 2 devices can comunicate with eachother without time delay (no faster device means no waiting for the slower one)

ARM11 as a complete MCU, with it's port I/O registers, internal RAM, Flash and EEPROM, Timer/Counter units, Watchdog, Interrupt driver, and other communication units like USART, SPI, I2C, CAN (maybe LIN) - of course should be clocked 800 - 1000MHz, but realize this:

1048 0H contains only MCU's core, so the stuff listet with red is MCU's periphery which are probably shared between both of the MCU's so there was no need to clock it to 1GHz, and lower speed means more stable performance and higher immunity to interferences with lowered chanse of mistake and lower power consumption.

Furthermore every single resource in 3DS is shared - 128MB RAM is shared between MCU core 1, MCU core 2, and GPU's video buffer, same goes for communication protocols, timers, interrupts, buffers, etc. So different clocks would really hinder. Besides, if the 3 MCU's are clocked with the same resonator, this means their operations are phase-correct ans synchronus.

Indicator of processor performance is not the clock speed, but the computing power, so if you do not need to clock MCU with fast clocks, you usually does not.

The only argument of which you speak is that this specification does not make sense to you. And ironically the info given on this disassembly is the most acurate of all for now.

Nintendo doesn't release specs on their devices,because they believe that it's not about how powerful a machine is, but how rewarding and fun the experience of using it is. You remember the DS? It was not a very powerful system, but many people loved it.