Nostos - Episode 6 up - season complete

For a minute there, I was wondering where you pulled that quote from xP. I've been away far too long.

he was happily arguing with the lot without considering the fact that doing so for too long would get all of them blown to pieces, including Hal herself, obviously.barb

Good catch. I will now utilize the benefits of partial updates and address this in the full episode. :P

Now, your predictions are well within reason and are all possible and logical directions I can take... but I'm sitting here grinning so hard because you got no idea of what's to come. And that's awesome. I think we're in for some good times, you and I.

Don't even worry about reading just yet, though. Like I said, these next few weeks ('til the end of March) are gonna whittle me down to nothing, and only after then can I resume writing. Couldn't even bring myself to buy ME3 because my workload told me to go f*** myself. Four papers + creative writing portfolio submission in three weeks--going to be pulling a few all nighters starting tomorrow night.

When I do get that update out, hopefully we'll both have more time in the summer. If anything, I feel bad for making you wait, so no pressure from me. Just swing by when you feel to be entertained and thanks again.

Out of curiosity, when is your summer vacation? My uni's great in that we essentially have three month semesters (13 hard weeks, give or take), while my friends are stuck 'til the end of May... and depending on the dates of finals, I could have almost an entire month extra. I had a five month summer last year, which was awesome, so I'm hoping for the same come exam time.

Actually, another one of my theories about what was going to happen involves the extragalactics popping in at around this time, since one of the story's main threads (repairing the Nostos) has been resolved and so it is time to move on to the next one.Barbariser

I will neither confirm nor deny anything, but I'll just say I'm kind of drawing out the events of episodes five and six so it's much more serialized than the first half of the season. Episode resolutions aren't quite as definite, and the ship definitely won't get repaired in one day. With that being said, it is my job to throw a wrench into places a wrench shouldn't go. ;)

Where I live, there's no such thing as a summer vacation. The longest vacation I can usually get doesn't last more than a fortnight, but it's made up for by the fact that I have more evenly distributed holidays. There is no way I could get a five month break on anything soon. Barbariser

Ack. I'm sorry I asked :P.

On the downside though, thanks to the condensed schedule I'm staring right in the face the crappiest couple of weeks I shall have to experience in 2012, and the countdown starts right now. See you on the other side, brother.

I'm finally back on the ball, gonna be reading this joint from start to finish.

Btw, that new title is pretty cexy, bro.

I couldn't resist coming here when I got this tweet from Jukepop calling more writers for their September release--Nostos is pretty much right up their alley. jukepopserials.com, sharpie. It's up to you!iloveflash

Flash, will they accept erotic fiction?

Massive update incoming. Google Docs giving me a little grief, but it's coming plus a few extras I'm excited to unveil.

And technology strikes again. I believe it's taken me two hours to get the links all working (GS keeps adding the https to the insert link thing). Enjoy, and I'll be starting to write Ep 6 tomorrow on notepad. Going to a wedding, so that'll be fun.

Revolution-class destroyer. She?s a heavy. A real frontline brawler, if we ever needed oneSharp

Destroyers aren't supposed to do "front-line brawling". They are light, fast vessels designed to excort bigger, more powerful ones from things like submarines (or, in this case, "stealth-ships"). Best call her a battleship or a dreadnought. Also, why would the Coalition name a warship "Revolution" if it's an oppressive fascist empire? The other two warships' names are much more appropiate.

A hit like that to unprotected head would have fractured____skull
Sharp

Your man is a criminal by all courts and must be dealt with, and the lions are waitingSharp

Stone seems to have gotten to his position more for political reasons than militarily pragmatic ones - he's clearly loyal and arrogant, both of which suit someone who is better at holding up an oppressive fascist empire than defeating other forces. Considering the apparently lavishness of his "marine corps detachment" equipment and the internal design of his warship, it's clear that the Coalition cares more to keep him and his force satisfied than militarily efficient.

He reminds me of Captain Vidal (and not just because that is in fact his name) from Pan's Labyrinth, but a bit better at disguising his complete and utter douchebaggery. Unfortunately the Brit seems to be about half the Brit cliches rolled into one person - horny Brit, rude Brit, evil Brit, posh Brit. I suppose she is unique in the sense that she combined all of those cliches at all.

There are some inconsistencies with Arturo's personality. He's willing to stand up to a very visible Coalition authority figure in favour of someone who wrecked havoc on both groups' crew - when there was a very real possibility that the Stoneys could decide to violently murder all the Nostosians on the spot for Arturo's uncooperativeness - but not willing to try and get back at the Coalition for ruining his family, when he had sovereign control of the warship and had time to plan something out?

Anyway, this is an interesting way to get the story out of the "the main characters are all going to go home and get turned into subatomic particles by aliens a few years later" trap. Tyrone has a very predictable path, though; find and get Haley. Frye similarly looks like she will basically be continuing her plan with the addition of getting revenge for Locke's death, since I don't see her having any other ultimate goals. 

Throw in India (who has been very absent in this chapter), the extragalactics, greater Coalition politics and the refugees and it looks like the story has a lot of directions to follow.

Heyo!

Destroyers aren't supposed to do "front-line brawling". They are light, fast vessels designed to excort bigger, more powerful ones from things like submarines (or, in this case, "stealth-ships"). Best call her a battleship or a dreadnought. Also, why would the Coalition name a warship "Revolution" if it's an oppressive fascist empire? The other two warships' names are much more appropiate. Barbariser

Oooh. I was always under the impression Destroyer was the step before Cruiser (this may be cribbing from Halo, though. Toro being equivalent to Keyes' earlier Iroquois). Dreadnought would make more sense I guess. As for "Revolution", your point definitely stands. :P This could be a bit of a perversion of the interpretation, but it could've gotten its name from its role in putting down revolutions (may have some connection to next ep). Could change, yeah, but you know how it goes... it was just one of those names (I hate names, I think I've mentioned) that sounded cool to say. Seems to be the bottom line lol.

Stone seems to have gotten to his position more for political reasons than militarily pragmatic ones - he's clearly loyal and arrogant, both of which suit someone who is better at holding up an oppressive fascist empire than defeating other forces. Considering the apparently lavishness of his "marine corps detachment" equipment and the internal design of his warship, it's clear that the Coalition cares more to keep him and his force satisfied than militarily efficient. Barb

There are some inconsistencies with Arturo's personality. He's willing to stand up to a very visible Coalition authority figure in favour of someone who wrecked havoc on both groups' crew - when there was a very real possibility that the Stoneys could decide to violently murder all the Nostosians on the spot for Arturo's uncooperativeness - but not willing to try and get back at the Coalition forruining his family, when he had sovereign control of the warship and had time to plan something out?Barb

When you say "get back at the Coalition", what did you have in mind? From that it sounds like Arturo should wage a war against the Imperium, but it's kind of like a head versus hand sort of deal-- Arturo is pro-Fleet, anti-Imperium. All he has left is the Fleet, and short of leading an assault on the capital colonies, Imperium seems untouchable. And it's unlikely the orders were from the "High Chancellor" [to be renamed] himself, rather someone in the administrative circles, or his people behind the scenes. PSYWAR manifests deep, and there is an ulterior motive to their actions. There is more to the story that Arturo doesn't know, and as per one of the main themes I attempted to broach in this ep, "the truth" can be fabricated. As such, Stone's and Carlisle's true objectives and motives haven't yet been revealed.

I mean, I definitely get the shift in Arturo's stance (and that's probably just the rushed writing on my part) so you're not wrong there, but I've tried to have him undergo a little change in thinking. Compared to Naeto, I tried to establish Arturo as the tactical, level-headed leader, yes, but when put up against Stone, and their discussion about prowess/leadership ability (Stone's jabs about Arturo's seemingly uncharismatic person), Arturo's little moment of courage comes out (albeit at the wrong time) and the catalyst of that is the acknowledgement of Carlisle being an Imperator. There's personal history and it has an effect on Arturo, after some of it has come out to Tyrone and whatnot. Now, it's not explained right at the moment, so I apologize for springing this and acting all righteous about it, but there will be connection between PSYWAR/Imperator/Arturo's family that I don't want to spoil (but will probably go largely unexplained until way down the line [basic outline puts that reveal in like, a hypothetical season 3] Man, that's depressing).

The feelings of isolation from the rest of his crew are supposed to be indicative of how paranoid he is of Naeto forcefully assuming command (and being more popular at it), and his attempt to reassert control over his ship (not bowing to the Imperium for personal reasons) ends in abject failure. In my outline, I have Arturo order the execution of Locke, but I have two problems with that action. One, everything discussed in this episode that I hoped would go towards his character development/backstory would have been for nought because the character has not *learned* anything, and two, the outcome of that would change up some details in my plan for episode six. I wanted the presence of Imperium to be a constant thought in Arturo's brain, their negative connection to his family is what might make him act rashly for once. It's his trapdoor trigger, if you will. West has his drugs and jungle-adventure, Sin has her continual feelings of inadequacy... Art loses his cool when the conditions are right.

That all said, I recognize what you're saying, and it's certainly valid. All the stuff above is what my interpretation of what I attempted, so I can concede that I may very well be wrong; we both know thoughts and words can be so easily lost in translation, especially if I'm at the helm :P. If I sound really defensive this time, that's because that means I have my work cut out for me. You know I love hearing speculation/analyses of my stuff, but now I wanna hone in on some of these issues because I think this may very well be the first time I've really dabbled in character psyche and I really wanted the entire ep to reflect a transformation. So knowing a little more about my intentions now, what might I need to add to have this really come through?

He reminds me of Captain Vidal (and not just because that is in fact his name) from Pan's Labyrinth, but a bit better at disguising his complete and utter douchebaggery. Unfortunately the Brit seems to be about half the Brit cliches rolled into one person - horny Brit, rude Brit, evil Brit, posh Brit. I suppose she is unique in the sense that she combined all of those cliches at all.Barb

Yeah, a lot of it was kind of telegraphed looking back on it--my apologies. I was indeed channeling Capt. Vidal, so you're right on the money on that. May have to change the name now, but it was really just another on-ramp thing like Tyrone was. As for Carlisle, I do see that lol, but keep in mind, the dinner sequence isn't to reflect their personalities (except for evil Brit, that's pretty bang-on, in chap 5). Stone's speech about the shark hunt was a something something (it's the wee hours of early morning, and I cannot for the life of me think of the term for this) about the scene at hand. A lot of the questions were geared towards studying Arturo, probing his defenses and "circling him in the water" while he seemed to be helpless, out of his usual element and the safety of his ship. Carlisle was playing along, as one might do with a wine glass, but I think she'll settle into the all-business type of Brit soon ;P.

Tyrone has a very predictable path, though; find and get Haley. Frye similarly looks like she will basically be continuing her plan with the addition of getting revenge for Locke's death, since I don't see her having any other ultimate goals.

Throw in India (who has been very absent in this chapter), the extragalactics, greater Coalition politics and the refugees and it looks like the story has a lot of directions to follow.Barb

Okay, well some of your observations are definitely interesting. Looking over my outline for ep 6, I don't know if you'll be taken by surprise or angry/let down by what's to come. I'm working out the logistics of, there's a big story reveal at the end, and for drama purposes, I'm deciding how many answers goes into this season, and what gets left for next season to tell.

As always, thanks for your help and for giving me stuff to think about. Really appreciate the time you spent slogging through all of that :), can't imagine it's one-sitting-material. IYO, was it more enjoyable to read than the last ep, or way less? Or did you totally hate it (and I really hope that's not the case lol). I can say with confidence that ep 6 more resembles ep 4's format and sense of adventure.

Oooh. I was always under the impression Destroyer was the step before Cruiser (this may be cribbing from Halo, though. Toro being equivalent to Keyes' earlier Iroquois). Dreadnought would make more sense I guess. As for "Revolution", your point definitely stands. :P This could be a bit of a perversion of the interpretation, but it could've gotten its name from its role in putting down revolutions (may have some connection to next ep). Could change, yeah, but you know how it goes... it was just one of those names (I hate names, I think I've mentioned) that sounded cool to say. Seems to be the bottom line lol.Sharpie125

I don't know how Halo does it, but "real" naval combat (at least before the aircraft carrier became dominant) doesn't work that way. Ships are classified by role, it's not "all the small dudes are weaker versions of big dudes". "Frontline brawler" warships are battleships and dreadnoughts, cruisers have a lot of different functions but are never meant to get into slugging matches with battleships and dreadnoughts (since they will die fast without causing much damage), destroyers protect the big guys (battleships in the early 1900s, aircraft carriers now) from things like submarines, .etc.

Mockery does sound like the Imperium's thing. It would certainly mean that they dumped got knows how much resources into a project that is basically meant to taunt any potential rebels who think about getting uppity.

When you say "get back at the Coalition", what did you have in mind? From that it sounds like Arturo should wage a war against the Imperium, but it's kind of like a head versus hand sort of deal-- Arturo is pro-Fleet, anti-Imperium. All he has left is the Fleet, and short of leading an assault on the capital colonies, Imperium seems untouchable. And it's unlikely the orders were from the "High Chancellor" [to be renamed] himself, rather someone in the administrative circles, or his people behind the scenes. PSYWAR manifests deep, and there is an ulterior motive to their actions. There is more to the story that Arturo doesn't know, and as per one of the main themes I attempted to broach in this ep, "the truth" can be fabricated. As such, Stone's and Carlisle's true objectives and motives haven't yet been revealed.Sharpie125

I certainly don't think it is a good idea for someone operating a maintenance-heavy and infrastructure-intensive warship to try and wear an interstellar empire down by force. The details of any attempted dissent are probably too complex to work out (plan to grab a whole battlefleet and join the Mergence? Rally the outskirters against the Coalition? So many options); but the Fleet acts for the Coalition and hence the Imperium, and therefore being loyal to the Fleet indirectly makes him an agent of the Imperium. Given that it seems like he has a strong sense of justice, I don't think he would be able to tolerate knowing this.

I mean, I definitely get the shift in Arturo's stance (and that's probably just the rushed writing on my part) so you're not wrong there, but I've tried to have him undergo a little change in thinking. Compared to Naeto, I tried to establish Arturo as the tactical, level-headed leader, yes, but when put up against Stone, and their discussion about prowess/leadership ability (Stone's jabs about Arturo's seemingly uncharismatic person), Arturo's little moment of courage comes out (albeit at the wrong time) and the catalyst of that is the acknowledgement of Carlisle being an Imperator. There's personal history and it has an effect on Arturo, after some of it has come out to Tyrone and whatnot. Now, it's not explained right at the moment, so I apologize for springing this and acting all righteous about it, but there will be connection between PSYWAR/Imperator/Arturo's family that I don't want to spoil (but will probably go largely unexplained until way down the line [basic outline puts that reveal in like, a hypothetical season 3] Man, that's depressing).

The feelings of isolation from the rest of his crew are supposed to be indicative of how paranoid he is of Naeto forcefully assuming command (and being more popular at it), and his attempt to reassert control over his ship (not bowing to the Imperium for personal reasons) ends in abject failure. In my outline, I have Arturo order the execution of Locke, but I have two problems with that action. One, everything discussed in this episode that I hoped would go towards his character development/backstory would have been for nought because the character has not *learned* anything, and two, the outcome of that would change up some details in my plan for episode six. I wanted the presence of Imperium to be a constant thought in Arturo's brain, their negative connection to his family is what might make him act rashly for once. It's his trapdoor trigger, if you will. West has his drugs and jungle-adventure, Sin has her continual feelings of inadequacy... Art loses his cool when the conditions are right.

That all said, I recognize what you're saying, and it's certainly valid. All the stuff above is what my interpretation of what I attempted, so I can concede that I may very well be wrong; we both know thoughts and words can be so easily lost in translation, especially if I'm at the helm :P. If I sound really defensive this time, that's because that means I have my work cut out for me. You know I love hearing speculation/analyses of my stuff, but now I wanna hone in on some of these issues because I think this may very well be the first time I've really dabbled in character psyche and I really wanted the entire ep to reflect a transformation. So knowing a little more about my intentions now, what might I need to add to have this really come through?Sharpie125

Well, I do suppose that the vast timespan difference and the complex nature of personal motives can explain his suddenly gaining some rebellious spirit. What I'm saying is that it's not very, well, rational of him. However, I was under the impression that Naeto was given command of the ship, so I don't see how Arturo can fight that threatening.

The problem is that I didn't really connect the family thing to the scene with Vidal Stone, as I had it sort of filed away under the "teaching Tyrone a lesson" part. Instead the scene looks like he's opposing the guy mostly for "moral" reasons rather than deeper personal ones. Some clarity in the way the scene is written may be needed.

Yeah, a lot of it was kind of telegraphed looking back on it--my apologies. I was indeed channeling Capt. Vidal, so you're right on the money on that. May have to change the name now, but it was really just another on-ramp thing like Tyrone was. As for Carlisle, I do see that lol, but keep in mind, the dinner sequence isn't to reflect their personalities (except for evil Brit, that's pretty bang-on, in chap 5). Stone's speech about the shark hunt was a something something (it's the wee hours of early morning, and I cannot for the life of me think of the term for this) about the scene at hand. A lot of the questions were geared towards studying Arturo, probing his defenses and "circling him in the water" while he seemed to be helpless, out of his usual element and the safety of his ship. Carlisle was playing along, as one might do with a wine glass, but I think she'll settle into the all-business type of Brit soon ;P.Sharpie125

Ahh well, so she was acting like that so that none of the Nostosians would take her seriously.

Okay, well some of your observations are definitely interesting. Looking over my outline for ep 6, I don't know if you'll be taken by surprise or angry/let down by what's to come. I'm working out the logistics of, there's a big story reveal at the end, and for drama purposes, I'm deciding how many answers goes into this season, and what gets left for next season to tell.

As always, thanks for your help and for giving me stuff to think about. Really appreciate the time you spent slogging through all of that :), can't imagine it's one-sitting-material. IYO, was it more enjoyable to read than the last ep, or way less? Or did you totally hate it (and I really hope that's not the case lol). I can say with confidence that ep 6 more resembles ep 4's format and sense of adventure.Sharpie125

You can be assured that I enjoy reading the story, since if I didn't I definitely wouldn't take the trouble to read through it. As far one-sitting material goes, it's actually pretty easy to follow through and I have plenty to time. Though I should mention that I didn't actually read this chapter in one sitting - I did a part of it, went off and had dinner, put a few hours into Victoria 2 and then came back. Unfortunately I can't compare this to how I felt reading the fourth chapter, since I don't actually remember that very well. Not only has it been months since I read it, I've had a fairly major exam that basically took up most of my capacity. 

I don't know how Halo does it, but "real" naval combat (at least before the aircraft carrier became dominant) doesn't work that way. Ships are classified by role, it's not "all the small dudes are weaker versions of big dudes". "Frontline brawler" warships are battleships and dreadnoughts, cruisers have a lot of different functions but are never meant to get into slugging matches with battleships and dreadnoughts (since they will die fast without causing much damage), destroyers protect the big guys (battleships in the early 1900s, aircraft carriers now) from things like submarines, .etc. Barbariser

Right. I'm just looking on Halo wikia now, and indeed it seems to jump from Destroyers to Cruisers and Carriers with no real in between. The description for destroyers reads that it's essentially like a heavier frigate, so that's probably more in-line with what you're talking about. But based solely on the book descriptions, it seemed like the UNSC Iroquois could take a real beating. It's kind of the thing too, where real naval combat is essentially totally overpowered and a straight engagement would be over within minutes, I think I write my space battles more like WW2 armour-slugfests definitely taking cues from Battlestar Galactica. Those ships can really take a pounding and you can really appreciate the term "heavy brawler" in that context.

Mockery does sound like the Imperium's thing. It would certainly mean that they dumped got knows how much resources into a project that is basically meant to taunt any potential rebels who think about getting uppity.Barb

Psychological warfare :P. I know my descriptions of the ship might make it come off as a resort spa or something, but I'll admit it was totally stealing from the Battlestar Pegasus' design. Very sleek interiors compared to the archaic Galactica, sporting automated glass doors and all that stuff. Aside from the implications of the name, she's still a functional warship. As it stands anyway, the Fleet is there to police the Boundary and Rim.

I certainly don't think it is a good idea for someone operating a maintenance-heavy and infrastructure-intensive warship to try and wear an interstellar empire down by force. The details of any attempted dissent are probably too complex to work out (plan to grab a whole battlefleet and join the Mergence? Rally the outskirters against the Coalition? So many options);Barb

This is one of the things I'm retconning (and there's a spoiler-worthy plot device behind this as well) but just know that it's not easy to "join the Mergence". Plus, Arturo doesn't have a lot of contacts after the "treason debacle". They may have kept it under wraps, but he's pretty short on friends. Not to mention the presence of Imperium watchdogs in political officers aboard every ship.

but the Fleet acts for the Coalition and hence the Imperium, and therefore being loyal to the Fleet indirectly makes him an agent of the Imperium. Given that it seems like he has a strong sense of justice, I don't think he would be able to tolerate knowing this.Barb

While there's definitely what I said about head versus hand, I'm reminded of the relationship between the Nazi party and the Ubootwaffe, with the German sailors allegedly being the least accountable for warcrimes. I hope what I'm remembering isn't just fiction, but I thought I read something about there was definitely more of an anti-Nazi sentiment among the Uboaters than say the Wehrmacht or Panzer divisions.

Also remember that support for Imperium is strongest in the capital colonies and sort of peters out around the Boundary worlds and is almost non-existent on the untamed Rim, which would make Stone's presence quite unusual (I know, I never got around to explicitly stating this, but it isn't a coincidence that he showed up--this'll be brought into question next ep for sure). Arturo grudgingly served his "term" on the Rim, and his visit with his daughter five years ago isn't to be taken lightly. I brushed over it pretty quickly this ep for fear that if I said any more the reveal would lose its effect, but I'm beginning to see it might be necessary to explain Arturo's change. Don't know if you'll be satisfied with that explanation lol, but essentially he's a broken man. Imperium won, and he's more useful alive than dead because there's sort of a bilateral tether between him and the person his daughter "came out [of the academy] as". I don't want to spoil, of course, but with that I think you'll be able to infer what's the dealio already. I'm thinking I might need to hurry the schedule and put some of this info in the next ep.

Well, I do suppose that the vast timespan difference and the complex nature of personal motives can explain his suddenly gaining some rebellious spirit. What I'm saying is that it's not very, well, rational of him. However, I was under the impression that Naeto wasgivencommand of the ship, so I don't see how Arturo can fight that threatening.

The problem is that I didn't really connect the family thing to the scene with Vidal Stone, as I had it sort of filed away under the "teaching Tyrone a lesson" part. Instead the scene looks like he's opposing the guy mostly for "moral" reasons rather than deeper personal ones. Some clarity in the way the scene is written may be needed.Barb

All right. That's fair. This is tied to what I said above, so I'll see if I can pencil it into the existing ep, or see if I can make it fit in the next ep (there's a flashback scene that's pretty poignant imo, but I don't know where it fits best in the grand story arc since it has ties to the end-of-season reveal that I want to shed light on at the end of next ep but at the same time don't because dramatic license? I don't make this easy, sorry). The rationality part I put some thought into last night before I went to bed and it's totally true, but sometimes characters need to be a little out-of-character to grow. If Arturo did give the order, it would be another victory in favour of Stone's dominance, and if anything the whole ep has been about little moments where Stone belittles Arturo or shows his superiority in some way. I could end the episode on that note of Arturo being just a soul being utterly crushed underneath the boot of the machine (with Stone having one last act of dominance over him)... I could do it, but it'd be bleak.

And if you look at it this way, it's one tiny, albeit irrational, step in order for Arturo to come back with a fiery vengeance that you just know is a comin'. If Arturo didn't have his little moment, would it seem more out of character when he finally did decide to stand up for himself? Granted, like I said, it was a bad time to do it then, but being surrounded by so many characters driven by emotion, Arturo would lose what little respect his crew had of him if he became, ahem, Stone's b*tch. He'll have time to reflect on his actions a little later, but it's my opinion that Arturo needed this if to show that the tide is turning, and we finally see that the spark to resist, however small, is there. While there is a bit of "moral reason" behind refusing the order, the key is the line about the lions on the sands. What is the colliseum if not a spectacle? I think Arturo would have dealt with Locke (executing him, even) but Stone being there to force it made him change his mind. It was the public display that Arturo disliked the most, and that's what Imperium is all about: altering public opinion. But like you said, I need to connect it more to his history for it to really come through. I agree with that.

Ahh well, so she was acting like that so that none of the Nostosians would take her seriously. Barb

I could dial it back, but yeah it was really to show the degree of difference between chap 3 and chap 5 and how much of an actor she is. She's obviously some sort of intellectual, and on top of that she is as cutthroat as they come, on par or even moreso than Stone himself. It's kind of what being an Imperator entails, which I want to explore later on. Arturo is cordial towards her at the start of the scene, then the last sentence has him realize what she is, and thus begins his "change". I can't remember right at the moment (wee hours again), but in the video comm. sequence where Arturo and Stone discuss matters, both Carlisle and Naeto are off camera but privy to the conversation, beginning the cloak-and-dagger games, so here Arturo is already suspicious.

And also, this is totally abstract but still relevant... it's a little like my homage to the first season of BSG (the nerd in me is going crazy today), but there is an episode with a dinner party where Colonel Tigh is reunited with his crazy, alcoholic wife. Where the show is known for being drab and gritty, the tone of this episode was shot extremely sitcom-like with comedic beats and stuff like that. It's like an odd experiment they tried, and so in my thing the dinner scene is almost so completely different than everything else I've written. It's over the top for sure, but I was trying my best to make her seem disarming or innocuous. She's really there just to add colour to what is pretty much one long power-play between Stone and Arturo.

You can be assured that I enjoy reading the story, since if I didn't I definitely wouldn't take the trouble to read through it. As far one-sitting material goes, it's actually pretty easy to follow through and I have plenty to time. Though I should mention that I didn't actually read this chapter in one sitting - I did a part of it, went off and had dinner, put a few hours into Victoria 2 and then came back. Unfortunately I can't compare this to how I felt reading the fourth chapter, since I don't actually remember that very well. Not only has it been months since I read it, I've had a fairly major exam that basically took up most of my capacity.Barb

This is going to sound bad, but when I had one of my lulls during writing, the only thing that actually inspired me power through some sections was if I opened my old work and read through the previous episodes. It was just hard to get through for me personally, haha. I still don't think I've done a one-sitting read through of it yet (and it shows... I've found almost a dozen little typos since reading section by section).

I apologize again for the wait. The timing just wasn't on my side this semester. I was stuck on chapters 2 and 3 for the longest time, then I finally got my sh*t together and did the rest within a long, sleepless week in June. I'm ready for the season to be over, but you know the drill, it's worse if I make promises, so all I'll say is... homestretch. It's what gets me through everything else, just the thought of knowing that I'm on ep 6 should drive me to the end.

^Haha, thanks for the suggestion. I may think about it, but given how slow I am at updating, the recommended once a month posting would be too taxing on me. Triply so, come the school year. Then there's a little concern about violating first publication rights... some publishing houses won't accept work that's been posted on another website prior to submitting the manuscript so I am a little wary of getting myself into that mess should I want to take the next step in the future. At least with Google Docs I somewhat have control.

Right. I'm just looking on Halo wikia now, and indeed it seems to jump from Destroyers to Cruisers and Carriers with no real in between. The description for destroyers reads that it's essentially like a heavier frigate, so that's probably more in-line with what you're talking about. But based solely on the book descriptions, it seemed like the UNSC Iroquois could take a real beating. It's kind of the thing too, where real naval combat is essentially totally overpowered and a straight engagement would be over within minutes, I think I write my space battles more like WW2 armour-slugfests definitely taking cues from Battlestar Galactica. Those ships can really take a pounding and you can really appreciate the term "heavy brawler" in that context.Sharpie125

Frigates themselves have served a variety of roles throughout history. The type of naval warfare I'm talking about is indeed from WW2, as modern-day sea combat is quite different due to the existence of the Aircraft Carrier. 

Psychological warfare :P. I know my descriptions of the ship might make it come off as a resort spa or something, but I'll admit it was totally stealing from the Battlestar Pegasus' design. Very sleek interiors compared to the archaic Galactica, sporting automated glass doors and all that stuff. Aside from the implications of the name, she's still a functional warship. As it stands anyway, the Fleet is there to police the Boundary and Rim.Sharpie125

Well, yes, I'm just saying that a ship that has resouces invested for the sake of looking pretty isn't going to be as efficient as one that puts all of its material into function. BSG doesn't use modern day naval terminology either, if I remember correctly (I haven't watched it for about five years).

This is one of the things I'm retconning (and there's a spoiler-worthy plot device behind this as well) but just know that it's not easy to "join the Mergence". Plus, Arturo doesn't have a lot of contacts after the "treason debacle". They may have kept it under wraps, but he's pretty short on friends. Not to mention the presence of Imperium watchdogs in political officers aboard every ship.Sharpie125

Indeed, given the kind of person he is I doubt he'd be able to hide any dissenting thought for more than a few days.

While there's definitely what I said about head versus hand, I'm reminded of the relationship between the Nazi party and the Ubootwaffe, with the German sailors allegedly being the least accountable for warcrimes. I hope what I'm remembering isn't just fiction, but I thought I read something about there was definitely more of an anti-Nazi sentiment among the Uboaters than say the Wehrmacht or Panzer divisions.Sharpie125

But their dissatisfaction with the regime did not change the fact that they killed thousands of people on its behalf and hence helped to exercise its power. 

Also remember that support for Imperium is strongest in the capital colonies and sort of peters out around the Boundary worlds and is almost non-existent on the untamed Rim, which would make Stone's presence quite unusual (I know, I never got around to explicitly stating this, but it isn't a coincidence that he showed up--this'll be brought into question next ep for sure). Arturo grudgingly served his "term" on the Rim, and his visit with his daughter five years ago isn't to be taken lightly. I brushed over it pretty quickly this ep for fear that if I said any more the reveal would lose its effect, but I'm beginning to see it might be necessary to explain Arturo's change. Don't know if you'll be satisfied with that explanation lol, but essentially he's a broken man. Imperium won, and he's more useful alive than dead because there's sort of a bilateral tether between him and the person his daughter "came out [of the academy] as". I don't want to spoil, of course, but with that I think you'll be able to infer what's the dealio already. I'm thinking I might need to hurry the schedule and put some of this info in the next ep.Sharpie125

Well, I clearly don't know enough to say much about this, so I'll just wait. 

All right. That's fair. This is tied to what I said above, so I'll see if I can pencil it into the existing ep, or see if I can make it fit in the next ep (there's a flashback scene that's pretty poignant imo, but I don't know where it fits best in the grand story arc since it has ties to the end-of-season reveal that I want to shed light on at the end of next ep but at the same time don't because dramatic license? I don't make this easy, sorry). The rationality part I put some thought into last night before I went to bed and it's totally true, but sometimes characters need to be a little out-of-character to grow. If Arturo did give the order, it would be another victory in favour of Stone's dominance, and if anything the whole ep has been about little moments where Stone belittles Arturo or shows his superiority in some way. I could end the episode on that note of Arturo being just a soul being utterly crushed underneath the boot of the machine (with Stone having one last act of dominance over him)... I could do it, but it'd be bleak.

And if you look at it this way, it's one tiny, albeit irrational, step in order for Arturo to come back with a fiery vengeance that you just know is a comin'. If Arturo didn't have his little moment, would it seem more out of character when he finally did decide to stand up for himself? Granted, like I said, it was a bad time to do it then, but being surrounded by so many characters driven by emotion, Arturo would lose what little respect his crew had of him if he became, ahem, Stone's b*tch. He'll have time to reflect on his actions a little later, but it's my opinion that Arturo needed this if to show that the tide is turning, and we finally see that the spark to resist, however small, is there. While there is a bit of "moral reason" behind refusing the order, the key is the line about the lions on the sands. What is the colliseum if not a spectacle? I think Arturo would have dealt with Locke (executing him, even) but Stone being there to force it made him change his mind. It was the public display that Arturo disliked the most, and that's what Imperium is all about: altering public opinion. But like you said, I need to connect it more to his history for it to really come through. I agree with that.Sharpie125

Well, it backfired horribly. It allowed Stone to reveal the full might of his authority and put Arturo out of the way for good with one sentence. He has effectively been crushed like a bug, if momentarily. 

I could dial it back, but yeah it was really to show the degree of difference between chap 3 and chap 5 and how much of an actor she is. She's obviously some sort of intellectual, and on top of that she is as cutthroat as they come, on par or even moreso than Stone himself. It's kind of what being an Imperator entails, which I want to explore later on. Arturo is cordial towards her at the start of the scene, then the last sentence has him realize what she is, and thus begins his "change". I can't remember right at the moment (wee hours again), but in the video comm. sequence where Arturo and Stone discuss matters, both Carlisle and Naeto are off camera but privy to the conversation, beginning the cloak-and-dagger games, so here Arturo is already suspicious.

And also, this is totally abstract but still relevant... it's a little like my homage to the first season of BSG (the nerd in me is going crazy today), but there is an episode with a dinner party where Colonel Tigh is reunited with his crazy, alcoholic wife. Where the show is known for being drab and gritty, the tone of this episode was shot extremely sitcom-like with comedic beats and stuff like that. It's like an odd experiment they tried, and so in my thing the dinner scene is almost so completely different than everything else I've written. It's over the top for sure, but I was trying my best to make her seem disarming or innocuous. She's really there just to add colour to what is pretty much one long power-play between Stone and Arturo.Sharpie125

Well, in that case I can't really level any criticism against it, although it's still not really to my taste.

This is going to sound bad, but when I had one of my lulls during writing, the only thing that actually inspired me power through some sections was if I opened my old work and read through the previous episodes. It was just hard to get through for me personally, haha. I still don't think I've done a one-sitting read through of it yet (and it shows... I've found almost a dozen little typos since reading section by section).

I apologize again for the wait. The timing just wasn't on my side this semester. I was stuck on chapters 2 and 3 for the longest time, then I finally got my sh*t together and did the rest within a long, sleepless week in June. I'm ready for the season to be over, but you know the drill, it's worse if I make promises, so all I'll say is... homestretch. It's what gets me through everything else, just the thought of knowing that I'm on ep 6 should drive me to the end.Sharpie125

I think a lot of writers feel the same way. But don't worry, you're more than half done for this "season", which automatically makes you more successful than the vast majority of attempted writers out there, including myself. Either way, there isn't much of a need to apologize for "gaps" since I've got plenty to fill out my spare time with, what with being in college, learning to drive and all.

Frigates themselves have served a variety of roles throughout history. The type of naval warfare I'm talking about is indeed from WW2, as modern-day sea combat is quite different due to the existence of the Aircraft Carrier. Barbariser

I'll admit I know next to nothing about naval combat in any era lol. My space battles so far are pretty much tank battles in space, thinking about armour penetration and whatnot.

Well, yes, I'm just saying that a ship that has resouces invested for the sake of looking pretty isn't going to be as efficient as one that puts all of its material into function. Barb

The "Beast" (Pegasus) is pretty fearsome in action. BSG battles aren't really tactically sound, but goddamn are they exciting to watch. I think that's all I have to say about that.

But their dissatisfaction with the regime did not change the fact that they killed thousands of people on its behalf and hence helped to exercise its power. Barb

To be fair, though, they were at war and it was their duty to achieve military victory, whereas the Coalition doesn't really have an enemy to commit the Fleet to, save for the occasional pirate. Arturo still adamantly believes in the noble gesture of the Fleet protecting the shipping lanes/colonies (something that will play a major part of next ep) and the Imperium really hasn't shown interest in the Rim, keeping their focus on the capital colonies. And just to throw in, aside from the "Gestapo action" bit involving Arturo's wife, due to the terrorist/extremist activity hinted at, the mass arrests were most likely seen by the people as doing them a favour, not dissimilar to the actions of Homeland Security or other outfits like that.

From Arturo's point of view, his story is going to be biased (and obviously with history on our side we jump to conclusions of moral wrongness), but when you have stuff actually happening now (fictional or not) with orgs like CIA dealing with suspected terrorists (the film Rendition comes to mind), where do the fighting men overseas factor in? Aside from oil or so on, most believe they're fighting for their country's security, to prevent any future attacks. They're as much allowing America to do its thing to guarantee its place on the world stage as the Ubootwaffe, whatever their personal reasons for being in the service are. Not that I want to completely villainize America, mind you, but nationalism is a powerful tool. I'd say Arturo falls under the archetype of "noble protector at heart" but he's not enough of a puppet to be "the good soldier". As much as he hates the Imperium, he'd still rather fight the immediate threat of pirates (nobody is crying over them, right... they're criminals and deserve to be put down, so the belief goes) and put as much space between him and the inner colonies.

It's just a conundrum parallel to The Wire: you can respect the job that the police officers do at street-level, but hate the corrupt bureaucrats and the politics of the administrative system they take their orders from. In more ways than not he's similar to West, but West has spent his time in the trenches and he's the man Arturo actually aspires to be. Only problem is, West views Arturo as an extension of The Man (the result of the enlisted man/commisioned officer disconnect), when there is so much more going on above Arturo's own head and West's radical actions don't fly under his command. West ends up rocking the boat when Arturo is already precariously perched.

Well, it backfired horribly. It allowed Stone to reveal the full might of his authority and put Arturo out of the way for good with one sentence. He has effectively been crushed like a bug, if momentarily. Barb

Yeah, well, nobody's perfect lol. Everyone makes mistakes sooner or later. I had Frye mention that despite Arturo's strengths in the bridge ("smarter than the average [soldier]"), he really doesn't have a mind for politics. Just thinking about it now, subconciously channeling a little Ned Stark? Now, from my point of view, I can tell the story of how Arturo will try to get out of this mess, rather than having him brood around, trying to justify why he gave the order. In the meantime, it'll give Naeto something to do. Things need to backfire for the sake of conflict--backfiring horribly? Even better. It'll be more fun this way. :P

Well, in that case I can't really level any criticism against it, although it's still not really to my taste.Barb

No, criticize and level away. I'm not going to tell you you can't have an opinion haha. It's just what I'd attempted (and am now trying to justify). But if you didn't like it, that one's on me. Though this particular back-and-forth we have going has been a lot of fun for me, I have to say. This is where my outrageously priced tuition is going, I'm finding out. I'm either being the smartest I've ever come across as in my life, or I'm making a complete ass of myself. You decide.

I think a lot of writers feel the same way. But don't worry, you're more than half done for this "season", which automatically makes you more successful than the vast majority of attempted writers out there, including myself. Either way, there isn't much of a need to apologize for "gaps" since I've got plenty to fill out my spare time with, what with being in college, learning to drive and all.Barb

Only more than half? Next ep is the season finale, man! Saying "more than half" kind of depresses me, even moreso because the stuff I've spent great lengths visualizing doesn't even come into play until, like I'd mentioned before, hypothetical season 4. I don't know if I have it in me to write 6 fully-fledged episodes each season. It's great fun to work on, but after spending almost two years over six episodes, my goals seem so much farther away.

Anyway, what are you studying in college?

It does sound like fun, but we'll see how I feel, come August. That's when I plan on wrapping up the season and rewriting my pilot episode (as it stands, I don't think it's good enough to submit for anything). While I recognize the ebook market, I'm not in any real hurry to get out there right at this minute. Coupled with the fact my writing will more than likely mature and develop from my time in the Creative Writing program over the next couple of years, I've got options and time to release something I'll be happy with. Props to the folks getting ebook sales and so on, but for my mindset currently, though, it's the big six or nothing lol.

It really does sound intriguing, though! But Barb is doing an awesome job of beta and he's been a tremendous help. A crowd would be nice, but I'll concentrate on making it done, and coherent also. The story may even become a teleplay like I talked about once, depending on what happens in classes.

^Haha, thanks for the suggestion. I may think about it, but given how slow I am at updating, the recommended once a month posting would be too taxing on me. Triply so, come the school year. Then there's a little concern about violating first publication rights... some publishing houses won't accept work that's been posted on another website prior to submitting the manuscript so I am a little wary of getting myself into that mess should I want to take the next step in the future. At least with Google Docs I somewhat have control.

Sharpie125

It's not just first publication rights. After six months their exlusivity rights run out, but they've got unlimited non-exclusive use of the work so it'll probably be on their site permanently and not many publishers are going to want to publish something that you can read for free on the internet.

But you've just got to treat it as sending it to any other publisher really. They're publishing it and no one else is at the end of the day, and that goes for any publisher in any context.

Right, that's what has me worried. I haven't decided if I am going to publish, firstly, and if I was, they would not be my first choice to start sending queries to. Sharing it here I feel like is sharing with friends.

Well it *would* be sharing, if you'd read it!

xP

I'll admit I know next to nothing about naval combat in any era lol. My space battles so far are pretty much tank battles in space, thinking about armour penetration and whatnot.Sharpie125

Armour penetration is a big component of battleship warfare. I don't think we've actually seen a proper ship-to-ship slugfight in your story, so we can't really say what it "resembles". However, if it was like tank fighting then the first shot to make it through the armour would blow the whole ship up, so that wouldn't really be "frontline brawling", it would be more like "armoured sniping".

The "Beast" (Pegasus) is pretty fearsome in action. BSG battles aren't really tactically sound, but goddamn are they exciting to watch. I think that's all I have to say about that.Sharpie125

Well, I'll just take your word for it since I don't remember anything about BSG fights except that their tech is pretty much WW2 extrapolated into space. 

To be fair, though, they were at war and it was their duty to achieve military victory, whereas the Coalition doesn't really have an enemy to commit the Fleet to, save for the occasional pirate. Arturo still adamantly believes in the noble gesture of the Fleet protecting the shipping lanes/colonies (something that will play a major part of next ep) and the Imperium really hasn't shown interest in the Rim, keeping their focus on the capital colonies. And just to throw in, aside from the "Gestapo action" bit involving Arturo's wife, due to the terrorist/extremist activity hinted at, the mass arrests were most likely seen by the people as doing them a favour, not dissimilar to the actions of Homeland Security or other outfits like that.

From Arturo's point of view, his story is going to be biased (and obviously with history on our side we jump to conclusions of moral wrongness), but when you have stuff actually happening now (fictional or not) with orgs like CIA dealing with suspected terrorists (the film Rendition comes to mind), where do the fighting men overseas factor in? Aside from oil or so on, most believe they're fighting for their country's security, to prevent any future attacks. They're as much allowing America to do its thing to guarantee its place on the world stage as the Ubootwaffe, whatever their personal reasons for being in the service are. Not that I want to completely villainize America, mind you, but nationalism is a powerful tool. I'd say Arturo falls under the archetype of "noble protector at heart" but he's not enough of a puppet to be "the good soldier". As much as he hates the Imperium, he'd still rather fight the immediate threat of pirates (nobody is crying over them, right... they're criminals and deserve to be put down, so the belief goes) and put as much space between him and the inner colonies.

It's just a conundrum parallel to The Wire: you can respect the job that the police officers do at street-level, but hate the corrupt bureaucrats and the politics of the administrative system they take their orders from. In more ways than not he's similar to West, but West has spent his time in the trenches and he's the man Arturo actually aspires to be. Only problem is, West views Arturo as an extension of The Man (the result of the enlisted man/commisioned officer disconnect), when there is so much more going on above Arturo's own head and West's radical actions don't fly under his command. West ends up rocking the boat when Arturo is already precariously perched.Sharpie125

They may see themselves as serving the people rather than the state; but they can't really run away from the fact that the people are an integral part of the state and the resource that allows the state to exist. So long as they work to ensure that the people are satisfied with the "security" provided by the state, they also work to keep the state popular, stable and powerful, and by extension they work for the state's ability to exploit and oppress its people.

Morality is always a matter of choices made, and these men, by agreeing to adhere to the authority of the regime, had chosen to forgo one moral option (weakening and potentially destroying an "evil government") to satisfy another one - "save lives". Thing is, I would argue that in the long run, by successfully achieving the former you can actually satisfy the latter to a greater degree.

The Coalition is clearly not very good at providing security for the outer colonies - the places that most need it. One reason is that they are devoting resources that could be used for anti-pirate duties to trying to politically police their navy, not to mention that a "politically regulated" military is much less effective than one that is allowed to do its job without excessive interference.

Now, I really doubt that any of those German submariners or Arturo have actually considered these points, but that doesn't change the fact that their dissent is meaningless if they do not do anything to realize it. Then again, it could also be proof that both the Nazi military and the Coalition are pretty good at disciplining their soldiers.

Yeah, well, nobody's perfect lol. Everyone makes mistakes sooner or later. I had Frye mention that despite Arturo's strengths in the bridge ("smarter than the average [soldier]"), he really doesn't have a mind for politics. Just thinking about it now, subconciously channeling a little Ned Stark? Now, from my point of view, I can tell the story of how Arturo will try to get out of this mess, rather than having him brood around, trying to justify why he gave the order. In the meantime, it'll give Naeto something to do. Things need to backfire for the sake of conflict--backfiring horribly? Even better. It'll be more fun this way. :PSharpie125

Well, all for the sake of the story. Although I was under the impression that Naeto does not actually have any "career ambitions" and actually IS loyal to Arturo, so Stone may see his little exercise in authority backfiring on him sooner or later.

No, criticize and level away. I'm not going to tell you you can't have an opinion haha. It's just what I'd attempted (and am now trying to justify). But if you didn't like it, that one's on me. Though this particular back-and-forth we have going has been a lot of fun for me, I have to say. This is where my outrageously priced tuition is going, I'm finding out. I'm either being the smartest I've ever come across as in my life, or I'm making a complete ass of myself. You decide.Sharpie125

No, what I meant was that there isn't anything I can do to criticize it if that's what you intended, since it's pretty much entirely a matter of personal taste. I'll just say that I've seen so many Evil Brit stereotypes in space drama, from Mass Effect to Fringe to BSG to Deus Ex (basically any sci-fi not actually made by Brits) that I can't help but wonder why people around the world seem to see them all as being a bunch of intelligent but sociopathic jerks. As for the "complete ass" part, I have no idea what you're talking about and I'm not really seeing where that came from.

Only more than half? Next ep is the season finale, man! Saying "more than half" kind of depresses me, even moreso because the stuff I've spent great lengths visualizing doesn't even come into play until, like I'd mentioned before, hypothetical season 4. I don't know if I have it in me to write 6 fully-fledged episodes each season. It's great fun to work on, but after spending almost two years over six episodes, my goals seem so much farther away.

Anyway, what are you studying in college?Sharpie125

"More than half" includes "any % above 50" so naturally that includes "second last episode". My point was that that's a lot more progress than the average work, so you should be trying to keep your ball rolling. Also, always compare yourself to other writers if you wonder if you can handle writing - two years for the word equivalent of a whole novel isn't exactly sluggish even by professional standards, I think. Maybe TV series writers can get their stuff done faster than you can, but they're full professionals, have the world's greatest incentive pushing them and have the time to concentrate on their job.

I'm doing A-levels for Physics, Economics, Mathematics and Further Mathematics. If I want to go somewhere good in this economy I will want exam grades on the other of "all As" so that's why the previous exams have been taking up so much of my time - and they weren't even the real thing, just internal tests.

Armour penetration is a big component of battleship warfare. I don't think we've actually seen a proper ship-to-ship slugfight in your story, so we can't really say what it "resembles". However, if it was like tank fighting then the first shot to make it through the armour would blow the whole ship up, so that wouldn't really be "frontline brawling", it would be more like "armoured sniping".Barbariser

Not quite a spoiler, but I think I may be changing the Darkstar's "role". Armoured sniping seems pretty apt.

They may see themselves as serving the people rather than the state; but they can't really run away from the fact that the people are an integral part of the state and the resource that allows the state to exist. So long as they work to ensure that the people are satisfied with the "security" provided by the state, they also work to keep the state popular, stable and powerful, and by extension they work for the state's ability to exploit and oppress its people.

Morality is always a matter of choices made, and these men, by agreeing to adhere to the authority of the regime, had chosen to forgo one moral option (weakening and potentially destroying an "evil government") to satisfy another one - "save lives". Thing is, I would argue that in the long run, by successfully achieving the former you can actually satisfy the latter to a greater degree.Barb

I do agree with this, and I'm not denying that it's ultimately flawed, but I'm hard pressed to find any other option Arturo/similar folks have in his position, short of becoming a hermit and cutting all ties to civilization (and don't think he hasn't considered that lol. But it is related to the much-talked about visit with his daughter that we haven't explored and his role in the Darkstar program.) He could try being a revolutionary, but I don't think he'd be very good at it. After one spends a faithful twenty five years of a fifty-five year old life doing something one way (as per the ultimatum), I'd think it'd be tough to turn that around. If anything, he's definitely not a schemer and his personal failings come into factor here too; if he can barely rally his own crew, it's kind of unlikely he'd have any sort of traction with a resistance movement.

It's interesting we keep coming back to the entity of the Imperium itself, and the "weakening" or "destroying" of it. I welcome any sort of discussion, so it's all cool, but I'm wondering if that's really a necessity, aside from the established totalitarian angle. Yes, fascism is bad, but I think you can make the connection and can almost line up Imperium with the modern/quasi-fictional-future American government (despite what I said before, about Coalition =/= America, but thinking about it now, I can't shake the thought). It's more exaggerated, but the capitalist tendencies are there, and the whole PSYWAR thing could be a commentary of the modern media machine and the public intake of information. If Fox News is any indication, the truth can be twisted to great lengths. You'll probably never hear any of the stuff you see on Liveleak on the 6 o' clock national news, and politicians/corporations are already seeking to regulate the internet (or do already, in some countries). Blatant propaganda is still around and still legal. When we talk offense, has the Imperium really done much to warrant overthrow? Has America? It's hard, man. I know I keep essentially calling Imperium Nazis, but aside from Arturo's incident, it's difficult to slap on the "evil government" tag. Maybe bloated and ineffectual, but for all we know (and I don't even know lol, I'll make it up when I get there), Arturo's wife could be totally guilty and Arturo's just a bitter cynic. The few assassination attempts on Hitler were more spurred on by the way the war was going and his increasingly poor tactical decisions, whereas the Imperium isn't quite disappearing people willy-nilly. The war-crimes on Gemini (the equivalent of stuff we know from Vietnam or things we've seen troops do in Iraq) or so on would always be covered up by PSYWAR, so how much support can the stirrings of a revolution actually get?

What comes to mind is, I don't know if you listen to the Rooster Teeth podcast (probably not your thing) but they brought up the issue of the many street-level cameras all over London, how they could use them to implicate someone in a crime. The Brit, Gavin, tells them he doesn't mind the cameras because if he hasn't done anything wrong, he's got nothing to worry about. The American co-hosts say to him, once you start thinking like that, you're screwed. What I took away from that conversation is, if people start getting arrested, you have people like Gavin who would be convinced that those people have committed a crime, that they are automatically guilty all because they believe so much in "the system". That it can do no wrong. It's just interesting to me that if something were to escalate hypothetically, how long would it take people to realize that there is a totalitarian government at the helm of the nation? I mean, Germany and Italy knew what they were signing up for, and fascism did help them pull out of the depression and rise to power, but isn't this a common theme in dystopian future sci-fi? People aside from the protagonists who don't know how screwed up their lives are? :P Even now we have people decrying North America (or the Western world, even) as a police state.

The Coalition is clearly not very good at providing security for the outer colonies - the places that most need it. One reason is that they are devoting resources that could be used for anti-pirate duties to trying to politically police their navy, not to mention that a "politically regulated" military is much less effective than one that is allowed to do its job without excessive interference.

Now, I really doubt that any of those German submariners or Arturo have actually considered these points, but that doesn't change the fact that their dissent is meaningless if they do not do anything to realize it. Then again, it could also be proof that both the Nazi military and the Coalition are pretty good at disciplining their soldiers.Barb

Again, that is The Wire to an absolute tee. If you haven't watched it, I highly recommend it. It's just the way it is: bad guys need to get caught, but there's a ridiculous amount of red tape and obstacles in people just looking to climb the ranks and provide "dope on the table" for the newspapers and get a promotion. Just corruption from the police chiefs/deputy commanders, and the newspaper guys, right up to the mayor's office and the senators. And the way the Wire ends, it's essentially like David Simon (the creator/producer) is saying that good people go bad, the bad stay bad; these are the people in charge, and nothing ever changes. Each police victory is eventually hollow and there's nothing they can do about it. Sorry I'm mentioning it a lot lol, but it was on again tonight and I ended up just sitting there and watching the entire episode. Great stuff.

Well, all for the sake of the story. Although I was under the impression that Naeto does not actually have any "career ambitions" and actually IS loyal to Arturo, so Stone may see his little exercise in authority backfiring on him sooner or later.Barb

His character is probably my biggest regret/oversight, is that I know I promised character development, but I think Naeto may be getting left out in the cold this season. I have a map of an arc I want to try, but it doesn't really fit with these events just the way I ended up getting it all down. May happen later, though. Originally I planned for him and Doctor Simone to be actually loyal to Stone, or just more supportive of Imperium/Coalition than West or Arturo (maybe Naeto did lose a loved one in the protests/bombings?) to see perspectives from all sides in the divide, but yeah that probably won't be happening just due to constraints and plotting difficulties.

Oh, it'll backfire on Stone, but it's a matter of how and when.

No, what I meant was that there isn't anything I can do to criticize it if that's what you intended, since it's pretty much entirely a matter of personal taste. I'll just say that I've seen so many Evil Brit stereotypes in space drama, from Mass Effect to Fringe to BSG to Deus Ex (basically any sci-fi not actually made by Brits) that I can't help but wonder why people around the world seem to see them all as being a bunch of intelligent but sociopathic jerks. As for the "complete ass" part, I have no idea what you're talking about and I'm not really seeing where that came from.Barb

Just a joke :P. Can't help but feel like I'm full of hot air with every post, just hoping my points are actually relevant and contribute to discussion in some way. This is probably the most in-depth conversation I've had in, well, ever. I'll mention again how much I'm enjoying this, but I'll always have a niggling feeling that I'm embarassing myself and talking about stuff I know nothing about.

I think Carlisle doesn't have to be British (save for the one line about roots), and it wasn't really the statement I wanted to make lol (truth be told the decision was due to a later scene I'm going to write, and there's a strange connection to a British-made property so I thought it'd be fitting. Along the lines of McAvon being Scottish just cause I thought it was an in-joke that notable space ship engineers seemed to be Scottish) but I think she could easily be American/whatever passes for regular-accented. Something I kind of do like about "writing Brit" is just the speech pattern, I think. It makes for a more interesting flow. It's lilting (I do read my stuff out loud) and the sarcasm just sounds so much better in the accent. I can assure you the Evil Brit thing definitely wasn't my intention lol. It's the same with Tyrone's "Southern-twang" Rim-world speech. It's not that I think he is uneducated or a hick, but there's kind of a world-weariness behind his words that I love to hit. Whenever I have that up against the regular "colonial officer" (Arturo/Naeto/Locke) it seems to spice up the dialogue so much more. I think some of my favourite conversations are between Tyrone and India or anybody from the Rim. And just to throw in, West, his marines, and Sin seem to have a more clipped CJ Cherryh-esque sci-fi speech and that's cool to try out in its own right.

"More than half" includes "any % above 50" so naturally that includes "second last episode". My point was that that's a lot more progress than the average work, so you should be trying to keep your ball rolling. Also, always compare yourself to other writers if you wonder if you can handle writing - two years for the word equivalent of a whole novel isn't exactly sluggish even by professional standards, I think. Maybe TV series writers can get their stuff done faster than you can, but they're full professionals, have the world's greatest incentive pushing them and have the time to concentrate on their job.Barb

Haha, yeah I know. I just like the sound of "almost done" compared to "more than half" :P. When I finally do finish, I believe I'll be about 10k shy of A Game of Thrones' wordcount and that's the thought that keeps me truckin'.

I'm doing A-levels for Physics, Economics, Mathematics and Further Mathematics. If I want to go somewhere good in this economy I will want exam grades on the other of "all As" so that's why the previous exams have been taking up so much of my time - and they weren't even the real thing, just internal tests.Barb

It's good you have good studying habits. It's still my bane, even to this day. I can go into an English exam having read effectively half a novel (every even chapter, no joke) and pull off a strong essay based on my ability to BS and analyze the crap out of certain scenes, but give me actual facts and textbook material, and I'm in big trouble :P. You're versed in all the subjects I am godawful at as well, so props. Nearly failed physics and math in high school, might even say they're the reason why I decided to really push in English and writing when it came down to it.

Well it *would* be sharing, if you'd read it!

xP

Sharpie125

^I can do that, like I did 1.01 with a table of contents. What would you say is a manageable "chunk" for you?

Scene-by sounds pretty all right, if you're okay with me just labelling it on the TOC Part 2.1/2.2... etc. It's easier for the later eps since the format is more defined, 6 parts + epilogue with 3-4 scenes per part that are 900-2000 words each with some variations. I'll give 1.01 a shot and see if you're satisfied with the way it's laid out.

It's an eyesore, but it's here. Some whole parts without the # were one scene and/or short already. If I recall, I thought you were done "Night 2" when you left off. I just remember we had discussion about that :P. In the long run though, there's not actually too much info in the first episode that isn't brought up mission brief-style in the other eps. I might even suggest forgoing the pilot just to get to the better stuff lol. Let me know what you think.

Well tell me if it actually helps. It's like 80% dialogue, so I was under the assumption people would be able to blow right through it.

I do agree with this, and I'm not denying that it's ultimately flawed, but I'm hard pressed to find any other option Arturo/similar folks have in his position, short of becoming a hermit and cutting all ties to civilization (and don't think he hasn't considered that lol. But it is related to the much-talked about visit with his daughter that we haven't explored and his role in the Darkstar program.) He could try being a revolutionary, but I don't think he'd be very good at it. After one spends a faithful twenty five years of a fifty-five year old life doing something one way (as per the ultimatum), I'd think it'd be tough to turn that around. If anything, he's definitely not a schemer and his personal failings come into factor here too; if he can barely rally his own crew, it's kind of unlikely he'd have any sort of traction with a resistance movement.Sharpie125

Didn't say that he would have to try putting himself into a position of high leadership. Then again, I suppose the difficulty of joining a rebel movement (since you have written him as a guy who wouldn't be able to start his own) would be dependent on whether or not they are easy to find. I haven't even heard of any large rebel movements in the story, so it seems that there aren't any that are extensive enough for people to join after a bit of searching.

It's interesting we keep coming back to the entity of the Imperium itself, and the "weakening" or "destroying" of it. I welcome any sort of discussion, so it's all cool, but I'm wondering if that's really a necessity, aside from the established totalitarian angle. Yes, fascism is bad, but I think you can make the connection and can almost line up Imperium with the modern/quasi-fictional-future American government (despite what I said before, about Coalition =/= America, but thinking about it now, I can't shake the thought). It's more exaggerated, but the capitalist tendencies are there, and the whole PSYWAR thing could be a commentary of the modern media machine and the public intake of information. If Fox News is any indication, the truth can be twisted to great lengths. You'll probably never hear any of the stuff you see on Liveleak on the 6 o' clock national news, and politicians/corporations are already seeking to regulate the internet (or do already, in some countries). Blatant propaganda is still around and still legal. When we talk offense, has the Imperium really done much to warrant overthrow? Has America? It's hard, man. I know I keep essentially calling Imperium Nazis, but aside from Arturo's incident, it's difficult to slap on the "evil government" tag. Maybe bloated and ineffectual, but for all we know (and I don't even know lol, I'll make it up when I get there), Arturo's wife could be totally guilty and Arturo's just a bitter cynic. The few assassination attempts on Hitler were more spurred on by the way the war was going and his increasingly poor tactical decisions, whereas the Imperium isn't quite disappearing people willy-nilly. The war-crimes on Gemini (the equivalent of stuff we know from Vietnam or things we've seen troops do in Iraq) or so on would always be covered up by PSYWAR, so how much support can the stirrings of a revolution actually get?Sharpie125

There are some rather striking differences between the Coalies and the U.S. The U.S. does not employ "political officers" to regulate military command (it would make the U.S. military very inefficient if this was the case) and I don't think it's possible for commanders to simply grab sub-commanders and force them into their employ, nor can you execute captives without a military tribunal finding the captive guilty of treason or something worthy of capitalpubishment.

Also, war crimes against Vietnam/Iraq can't be compared to war crimes on Gemini, since, unlike Gemini, Vietnam and Iraq are not part of the United States, so the U.S. government doesn't really suffer internally by treating them too badly. Even then, people also kicked up massive s*hitstorms about the U.S. military in Vietnam and actually managed to get the U.S. pulled out of that place before their objectives could be completed.  

The thing is, though, I think you'll find that there are plenty of people out there who would definitely try to replace a U.S. government that pulled off evil sh*t like making people vanish and wrecking families. This is possible through the electoral process, so you don't really get violent movements to accomplish these goals in the U.S., but I'm pretty sure that the Coalition makes that quite impossible. So, when all other options are ineffective, force is the only way to achieve change.

What comes to mind is, I don't know if you listen to the Rooster Teeth podcast (probably not your thing) but they brought up the issue of the many street-level cameras all over London, how they could use them to implicate someone in a crime. The Brit, Gavin, tells them he doesn't mind the cameras because if he hasn't done anything wrong, he's got nothing to worry about. The American co-hosts say to him, once you start thinking like that, you're screwed. What I took away from that conversation is, if people start getting arrested, you have people like Gavin who would be convinced that those people have committed a crime, that they are automatically guilty all because they believe so much in "the system". That it can do no wrong. It's just interesting to me that if something were to escalate hypothetically, how long would it take people to realize that there is a totalitarian government at the helm of the nation? I mean, Germany and Italy knew what they were signing up for, and fascism did help them pull out of the depression and rise to power, but isn't this a common theme in dystopian future sci-fi? People aside from the protagonists who don't know how screwed up their lives are? :P Even now we have people decrying North America (or the Western world, even) as a police state.Sharpie125

Indeed, although they're far off the mark as evidenced by the fact that you can dissent politically in most Western nations and not be arrested, whereas this is a pretty big risk where I live and in many other Asian countries that aren't Japan, Taiwan or Korea. Either way, I would still argue that the ability for the government to fabricate crimes is something that it should not be allowed to do, and if it refuses to retract this power then you have to make it do so.

The Brit may think that way now, he's probably never going to change his view because he seems to view anything the government does as being correct anyway. But what about all the other people who are going to have their friends and loved ones vanish merely for differences of opinion? If they find that they're in danger of having the same happening to them and have no systemic way to change that, then they're going to have to work outside the system.

Again, that is The Wire to an absolute tee. If you haven't watched it, I highly recommend it. It's just the way it is: bad guys need to get caught, but there's a ridiculous amount of red tape and obstacles in people just looking to climb the ranks and provide "dope on the table" for the newspapers and get a promotion. Just corruption from the police chiefs/deputy commanders, and the newspaper guys, right up to the mayor's office and the senators. And the way the Wire ends, it's essentially like David Simon (the creator/producer) is saying that good people go bad, the bad stay bad; these are the people in charge, and nothing ever changes. Each police victory is eventually hollow and there's nothing they can do about it. Sorry I'm mentioning it a lot lol, but it was on again tonight and I ended up just sitting there and watching the entire episode. Great stuff.Sharpie125

I haven't watched it - but it's pretty clear that that system is dysfunctional and doesn't do what it's supposed to do. Hit it a little harder and it will cave in like a deck of cards. 

Just a joke :P. Can't help but feel like I'm full of hot air with every post, just hoping my points are actually relevant and contribute to discussion in some way. This is probably the most in-depth conversation I've had in, well, ever. I'll mention again how much I'm enjoying this, but I'll always have a niggling feeling that I'm embarassing myself and talking about stuff I know nothing about.Sharpie125

I wouldn't really worry about it, since I don't get the impression that you are particularly ignorant about what you're talking about. 

I make lol (truth be told the decision was due to a later scene I'm going to write, and there's a strange connection to a British-made property so I thought it'd be fitting. Along the lines of McAvon being Scottish just cause I thought it was an in-joke that notable space ship engineers seemed to be Scottish) but I think she could easily be American/whatever passes for regular-accented. Something I kind of do like about "writing Brit" is just the speech pattern, I think. It makes for a more interesting flow. It's lilting (I do read my stuff out loud) and the sarcasm just sounds so much better in the accent. I can assure you the Evil Brit thing definitely wasn't my intention lol. It's the same with Tyrone's "Southern-twang" Rim-world speech. It's not that I think he is uneducated or a hick, but there's kind of a world-weariness behind his words that I love to hit. Whenever I have that up against the regular "colonial officer" (Arturo/Naeto/Locke) it seems to spice up the dialogue so much more. I think some of my favourite conversations are between Tyrone and India or anybody from the Rim. And just to throw in, West, his marines, and Sin seem to have a more clipped CJ Cherryh-esque sci-fi speech and that's cool to try out in its own right.Sharpie125

Well, I don't think it's made the story worse, but it is a cliche. Your reasons for having an Evil Brit tend to be similar to other (American) media reasons for having Evil Brits - the fact that to a lot of people, Brit accents are really good at making people sound evil. 

Haha, yeah I know. I just like the sound of "almost done" compared to "more than half" :P. When I finally do finish, I believe I'll be about 10k shy of A Game of Thrones' wordcount and that's the thought that keeps me truckin'.Sharpie125

Well, that is quite impressive considering that GoT is one of the larger books I've read. Seven hundred pages of small text.

It's good you have good studying habits. It's still my bane, even to this day. I can go into an English exam having read effectively half a novel (every even chapter, no joke) and pull off a strong essay based on my ability to BS and analyze the crap out of certain scenes, but give me actual facts and textbook material, and I'm in big trouble :P. You're versed in all the subjects I am godawful at as well, so props. Nearly failed physics and math in high school, might even say they're the reason why I decided to really push in English and writing when it came down to it.Sharpie125

My studying habits are much worse than the average dude around here. I can spend up to 90% of my studying time doing something else in quite a few cases, and I usually devote a lot less studying time than they do. The advantage I have is that my English is much better than the average here and I can process information a lot faster (and, I'd say, deeper) than they can, so I can keep up with the best of my college mates in most non-art subjects while doing relatively little work.

Well, at least you can say you're part of that club of (Asian people who didn't get As in Math) 8). But seriously, it's a good thing that you've decided to pursue a career involving something you like doing and can do without straining too hard to do it. Just hope that it can give you good financial security, though, I don't know how lucrative bookwriting is nowadays for entering writers.

Didn't say that he would have to try putting himself into a position of high leadership. Then again, I suppose the difficulty of joining a rebel movement (since you have written him as a guy who wouldn't be able to start his own) would be dependent on whether or not they are easy to find. I haven't even heard of any large rebel movements in the story, so it seems that there aren't any that are extensive enough for people to join after a bit of searching.Barbariser

I was going to put something down, then I realized how fast-approaching spoiler territory we were getting, so I think we'll leave this thought up in the air for a while longer.

There are some rather striking differences between the Coalies and the U.S. The U.S. does not employ "political officers" to regulate military command (it would make the U.S. military very inefficient if this was the case) and I don't think it's possible for commanders to simply grab sub-commanders and force them into their employ, nor can you execute captives without a military tribunal finding the captive guilty of treason or something worthy of capitalpubishment.Barb

Oh yeah :P. I suppose this is where the extremes come out. But the geriatric four-star general/CIA director have played prominent villains before and when you have portrayals of intelligence organizations like you do in Homeland (the Showtime program) or, again, Rendition, it's hard to imagine what the CIA isn't capable of.

Also, war crimes against Vietnam/Iraq can't be compared to war crimes on Gemini, since, unlike Gemini, Vietnam and Iraq are not part of the United States, so the U.S. government doesn't really suffer internally by treating them too badly. Even then, people also kicked up massive s*hitstorms about the U.S. military in Vietnam and actually managed to get the U.S. pulled out of that place before their objectives could be completed. Barb

I was attempting to make Gemini seem like that, but now I'm realizing I might have contradicted myself between eps 4 and 5 lol; West's constant references to the liberal media resulting in the harsh criticism and resulting pull-out from Gemini, it being a "black mark" in history--yet Imperium used it to renew the sense of nationalism in the capital colonies. The loss/turning point of the war could maybe be the precedent that spurred PSYWAR censorship into overdrive over the next almost-decade...? I'll give it some more thought and play with the timeline.

Regarding, internal effects, I might even say Coalition foreign policy mirrors that of Rome. They are expansive to a point, but usually put in local chieftains as rulers over provinciae with governors standing by. This way, if there is conflict, it doesn't require constant Roman resources, and the locals fight it out themselves. That's kind of what I envisioned the Boundary, with Coalition being very hands-off regarding regulations, only providing the barebones Fleet for, what you said, poor security. Gemini would be different, in that the Crown "loyalists" were on the verge of being overthrown and all ties to Gemini's resources would be lost. I don't think it's quite a stretch for people all the way over in the capital colonies to view Gemini, or any of the more "exotic" Boundary/Rim worlds as completely different nations/peoples than they are, despite many being settlers. But now we're getting into sociology and ethnic relations, and boy was that a fun three months, first semester :P.

The Brit may think that way now, he's probably never going to change his view because he seems to view anything the government does as being correct anyway. But what about all the other people who are going to have their friends and loved ones vanish merely for differences of opinion? If they find that they're in danger of having the same happening to them and have no systemic way to change that, then they're going to have to work outside the system.Barb

Right. I guess that would definitely make cause for a resistance group to emerge in the context of this story. But I don't know. Given how easy it is to defame someone even now (there was a story on OT a few weeks ago about the kid who was recently found innocent of rape charges, after he spent something like six years in prison?) PSYWAR has a lot working in its favour. I think the world I've established almost seems like a callback to the Cold War, the age of paranoia and unease and delusion. With McCarthyism projected tenfold with no end in sight; how people were willing to give up their neighbours/co-workers as Communists or even having ties to slightly left-wing socialists. People didn't exactly form groups to fight the charges, rather, faded away in exile just about.Arturo essentially got blacklisted.

I haven't watched it - but it's pretty clear that that system is dysfunctional and doesn't do what it's supposed to do. Hit it a little harder and it will cave in like a deck of cards. Barb

Yup. If the show has taught me anything, it's don't go to Baltimore.

Well, I don't think it's made the story worse, but it is a cliche. Your reasons for having an Evil Brit tend to be similar to other (American) media reasons for having Evil Brits - the fact that to a lot of people, Brit accents are really good at making people sound evil. Barb

Fair enough haha. Like I said, she could very well be converted into an American-accented lady and I don't think it would have much bearing on her character in the long run, either way.

My studying habits are much worse than the average dude around here. I can spend up to 90% of my studying time doing something else in quite a few cases, and I usually devote a lot less studying time than they do. The advantage I have is that my English is much better than the average here and I can process information a lot faster (and, I'd say, deeper) than they can, so I can keep up with the best of my college mates in most non-art subjects while doing relatively little work.Barb

Yeah dude, your English is fantastic. Do you speak it on a daily basis, or do you focus on writing more? I ask, at the risk of sounding totally ignorant, but I've had ESL students who didn't know the word "feeling" or "thigh" in English. It's tough trying to explain what a "feeling" is to someone.

Well, at least you can say you're part of that club of (Asian people who didn't get As in Math) 8). Barb

Oh, you.

But seriously, it's a good thing that you've decided to pursue a career involving something you like doing and can do without straining too hard to do it. Just hope that it can give you good financial security, though, I don't know how lucrative bookwriting is nowadays for entering writers.Barb

I may be screwed lol, especially for straight up book writing. My sister is doing her MFA (non fiction) in NY and she keeps asking me to come out there and intern for either a publishing house or something like HBO. She's either going to be a professor or work as an editor in publishing, so that observation is pretty spot on: book writing is just not sustainable unless you really make it, Rowling or Meyer-style, but the chances are you're going to need a primary source of income. I was browsing Costco a week back and saw a nice hardcover book, and the plot synopsis made it seem like The Hunger Games, I thought, publishers jumping on that train. On the author flap, it said she had graduated from her university's Creative Writing program and that this was her debut novel. So, I have to say, that gives me hope, man.

Oh yeah :P. I suppose this is where the extremes come out. But the geriatric four-star general/CIA director have played prominent villains before and when you have portrayals of intelligence organizations like you do in Homeland (the Showtime program) or, again, Rendition, it's hard to imagine what the CIA isn't capable of.Sharpie125

Fiction and imagination have little bearing on reality. 

Regarding, internal effects, I might even say Coalition foreign policy mirrors that of Rome. They are expansive to a point, but usually put in local chieftains as rulers over provinciae with governors standing by. This way, if there is conflict, it doesn't require constant Roman resources, and the locals fight it out themselves. That's kind of what I envisioned the Boundary, with Coalition being very hands-off regarding regulations, only providing the barebones Fleet for, what you said, poor security. Gemini would be different, in that the Crown "loyalists" were on the verge of being overthrown and all ties to Gemini's resources would be lost. I don't think it's quite a stretch for people all the way over in the capital colonies to view Gemini, or any of the more "exotic" Boundary/Rim worlds as completely different nations/peoples than they are, despite many being settlers. But now we're getting into sociology and ethnic relations, and boy was that a fun three months, first semester :P.Sharpie125

Well, the name "Coalition" implies that the nation in question is actually a bunch of completely different states allying together for mutual benefit. However, I don't know how old this civilization is, so I don't know if it is supposed to be very politically similar to its original incarnation. 

Right. I guess that would definitely make cause for a resistance group to emerge in the context of this story. But I don't know. Given how easy it is to defame someone even now (there was a story on OT a few weeks ago about the kid who was recently found innocent of rape charges, after he spent something like six years in prison?) PSYWAR has a lot working in its favour. I think the world I've established almost seems like a callback to the Cold War, the age of paranoia and unease and delusion. With McCarthyism projected tenfold with no end in sight; how people were willing to give up their neighbours/co-workers as Communists or even having ties to slightly left-wing socialists. People didn't exactly form groups to fight the charges, rather, faded away in exile just about.Arturo essentially got blacklisted.Sharpie125

If I am thinking of the same story, the kid pleaded guilty after his lawyer told him to do so to get a reduced punishment. We don't actually know if the court would have convicted the guy or not. However, the Coalition does not appear to have many external threats to "focus on" - it would not have the political leeway that the U.S. had when faced with the Soviet Union. The only other enemy (Mergence) is relatively inactive and hasn't really done much, if anything, to threaten the core populatin of the Coals. 

Yeah dude, your English is fantastic. Do you speak it on a daily basis, or do you focus on writing more? I ask, at the risk of sounding totally ignorant, but I've had ESL students who didn't know the word "feeling" or "thigh" in English. It's tough trying to explain what a "feeling" is to someone.Sharpie125

I hardly write nowadays, and the only essays I've been doing recently are in economics - not very artsy, I can tell you that. I've been a primary English speaker since I was a toddler, which has unfortunately resulted in me being very bad at speaking the actual native language of the country I'm in right now. I've never tried to teach anyone a language - I don't like teaching people in general, let alone teaching people how to communicate with me. 

I may be screwed lol, especially for straight up book writing. My sister is doing her MFA (non fiction) in NY and she keeps asking me to come out there and intern for either a publishing house or something like HBO. She's either going to be a professor or work as an editor in publishing, so that observation is pretty spot on: book writing is just not sustainable unless you really make it, Rowling or Meyer-style, but the chances are you're going to need a primary source of income. I was browsing Costco a week back and saw a nice hardcover book, and the plot synopsis made it seem like The Hunger Games, I thought, publishers jumping on that train. On the author flap, it said she had graduated from her university's Creative Writing program and that this was her debut novel. So, I have to say, that gives me hope, man.Sharpie125

Given what I know of the literature industry (bleh), she probably got a lot of experience writing for journals/magazines/newspapers/.etc before getting to that "debut novel" of hers. I have a hard time seeing her as being particularly creative if she ripped off a book that was in itself a ripoff of another book. As you have already noted, publishers prefer to invest in things that they are confident in, and it's hard to be confident in a blank slate. I would recommend taking your sister up in that offer, as having that kind of experience would definitely push you ahead of the competition, and the state of our economy makes that sort of thing even more urgent. 

Well, the name "Coalition" implies that the nation in question is actually a bunch of completely different states allying together for mutual benefit. However, I don't know how old this civilization is, so I don't know if it is supposed to be very politically similar to its original incarnation. Barb

Definitely a little different. Coalition is just my synonym search for "Alliance" and we all know how those bodies end up, especially in sci fi. You're going to have forceful national--or in this case--colonial assimilation. I'll go more in-depth on this next episode.

If I am thinking of the same story, the kid pleaded guilty after his lawyer told him to do so to get a reduced punishment. We don't actually know if the court would have convicted the guy or not. However, the Coalition does not appear to have many external threats to "focus on" - it would not have the political leeway that the U.S. had when faced with the Soviet Union. The only other enemy (Mergence) is relatively inactive and hasn't really done much, if anything, to threaten the core populatin of the Coals. Barb

Yeah that public defender really screwed him over. Did she really think he wasn't innocent, based on the accusation of like one girl? At any rate, that really scares me.

Now, I won't comment too much on this next part, but just know that *this* is why I love these post-episode conversations. The points you brought up throughout this entire back and forth will come into play in the next episode if I plug it in right, so thanks very much for fueling the creative machine.

I hardly write nowadays, and the only essays I've been doing recently are in economics - not very artsy, I can tell you that. I've been a primary English speaker since I was a toddler, which has unfortunately resulted in me being very bad at speaking the actual native language of the country I'm in right now. I've never tried to teach anyone a language - I don't like teaching people in general, let alone teaching people how to communicate with me. Barb

Teaching is all right if you're in lecture-mode lol. I tutor some middle school kids and one's pretty awesome. During a lesson, I talked about Bella Swann being a blank-slate character and wish-fulfillment device (if I recall, I think you mentioned it once, and it came up against in another discussion I had), he took that and made a speech around it (like, legitimately criticizing Twilight/Hunger Games, how they're damaging today's youth, fun stuff like that lol) and got a standing ovation from his class. When people talk about the joys of teaching, I don't think it gets much better than that :P.

For language though, I hear you. If I tutor ESL kids, I'm counting on the hope that they have knowledge of basic communication, no way am I starting from scratch. That's on me, though. I took Japanese for four years in high school, I can only tell you probably three coherent sentences. Learned French from elementary to high school, and I know even less of that.

Given what I know of the literature industry (bleh), she probably got a lot of experience writing for journals/magazines/newspapers/.etc before getting to that "debut novel" of hers. I have a hard time seeing her as being particularly creative if she ripped off a book that was in itself a ripoff of another book. As you have already noted, publishers prefer to invest in things that they are confident in, and it's hard to be confident in a blank slate. I would recommend taking your sister up in that offer, as having that kind of experience would definitely push you ahead of the competition, and the state of our economy makes that sort of thing even more urgent.Barb

Yeah. Though I dread going to NY (much too crowded for my tastes) chances are I'm probably going to have to go either there or LA in the end. But it really is all about connections. I'm hoping my BFA Creative Writing program will help me get my foot in the door at least.

The story seems to have come flash-itis since I last read it. Too many descriptive words and not enough straightforwardness! Let's help clean it up.

Coins tumbled onto the surface of the table, tossed one at a time.

Coins tumbled onto the table one at a time.

In the hushed silence, each hit the liquor-soaked wood with deafening thuds while the room spun at a dizzy, break-neck pace.

I think you're trying to create the image looking around the table from the POV of the coins, right? In that case:

...each hit/tinkled/clinked onto the liquor-soaked wood, dancing to the attention of a circle of specters/spinning on their sides so those gathered round could see its faces/etc..The chill of deep space subsided to a stifling/heavy heat; beads of sweat rolled down shiny brows and Captain Sin Jackson hoped tears would soon follow.

This whole condensing thing is insanely fun. You should practice it a little!

Glad for the length of this thing! 'Tis readable now!

The story seems to have come flash-itis since I last read it. Too many descriptive words and not enough straightforwardness! Let's help clean it up.iloveflash

Haha, hasn't changed by my hand. I assure you. I'm planning to go back once I finish up ep 6, so if you've got the time, it'd definitely be a help to see areas in need of attention. Thanks man.

I think you're trying to create the image looking around the table from the POV of the coins, right? In that case:ILF

Well, it was actually supposed to be camera movement, heh. Long dizzy circle panning shot or whatever. Doesn't really translate in novel form, I guess. I do like your interpretation, though.

I should probably stress again, though, the pilot ep is pretty rough by my standards lol. I recommend giving it a skip to get to the better eps :P

That's admirable. I wish you the best of luck :P.

endeavour complete.

I need to do whats best for the colony, Lyle said. Independence aint a new notion, and if our neighbours leading the way, why dont we slide in behind em? Hard to feel the arm of Coalie law this far out, anyhow.

Because one or two colonial planets can't defeat the cumulative military might of a whole empire that can clearly project its power that far out? Ideals don't matter here, there is no way that they'll be able to stop the Coals from coming in with a giant fleet and turning both worlds into burning wastelands for attempting a war of secession. This man is very dumb and would probably deserve to get violently disintegrated by an orbital bombardment for trying that. 

Hed successfully navigated through the asteroid field, avoiding all of the hidden EM traps and mines that Tyrones experienced eyes could pick out

If it is possible for a guy in a ship to see these things in the darkness of space, then it's not really much of an accomplishment to successfully avoid them, I would say. Then again, navigating asteroid belts is not going to be inherently dangerous, since the mean distance between asteroids is likely to be dozens if not hundreds of kilometres. 

He knew he couldnt let the lieutenant walk in still dressed like a Coalition marinewell, he could, but there was every chance he wouldnt be walking back out again and Tyrone still needed him for the time beingso he directed him to Indias armoire

Either India is a huge woman or West is a tiny man. I can't imagine an average size man in my country actually wearing the same clothes as the average woman, and I'm pretty sure that men and women of Asian descent are much closer in relative size than whites. 

Cairo had been built during the days when it took three times the size of an average crew to run the vessel

Awkward sentence. Better to express it as "the average crew it took to run a vessel was three times larger". 

I have no doubt. Drake met him at the hatch and offered his hand. Arturo took it, and Drake pulled him in close. Arturo could smell the Scotch on his breath as Drake said in a low voice, The next time you want to pay me a visit, keep your watchdogs at home. They arent welcome aboard my ship of war.

This commander is exceptionally lucky that he didn't say this stuff to someone like Stone. Also, his logic about the fleet distribution is very shaky; if most pirate activity occurs outside the capital colonies, then by military logic counter-pirate forces must be concentrated outside the capital colonies. This does not necessarily have to invite a pirate attack on the capital colonies since that would mean going after well-developed targets far away from their bases of operation. 

Im not, West managed to gasp. He held up a hand, and Tyrone pulled him to his feet. The bullet had embedded itself in the front of Wests ballistic vest, knocking the wind out of him. He was otherwise unscathed, apart from the bruises hed be feeling later. The lockbox, however, was dented from the impressive hit it took from the arm.

Would have been obvious if there was no blood. 

Mortan glanced down a hallway, a quizzical look on his facewhich soon turned to a scowl. Tyrone could tell he didnt like it when his people snuck off on their own. He said, Walk soft. Dont know what else is rigged to blow. Tyrone followed Mortan as he moved cautiously. There was still the outlying possibility that it was all one elaborate ploy, that Aron had led them into a trap. Considering what Tyrone knew about the man, which was to say not much at all, his imagination wasnt a total betrayal of his thoughtsMortan knew it too. In the hallway, Mortan paused by the open door and put a finger to his lips.

Unfortunately the fact that we know the future completely kills any suspense here. 

Were not looking at a single dissenting colony anymore. This is a full-blown revolution. As soon as Arturo uttered the words, he knew what the outcome would be. With the revelation of Delphia having gained allies in the majority of the Nova colonies, he had just admitted that theyd lost the battle and the war. We cant stay here, Arturo finished.

These planets must be extremely heavily industrialized if they were able to put out enough of a fleet in a relatively short period to make the entire Coalition incapable of subduing them. 

Negatory! I can get closer, Actual! Nine hundred metres! Six fifty! I am closing

That is some really short ranged weaponry. 

Glad we werent caught inside it when it hit. 

Interesting way to respond to the fact that they would have all died if it wasn't for an extremely specific set of circumstances. 

Theres a catch, though, Mortan said. Not one of these ships is outfitted with FTL drives. The journey will be long, going to Virginia Sector. Five years, I think. But sooner, if we manage to get our hands on FTL drives somehow.

Unless VS is extremely nearby and the ships travelling at a significant fraction of light speed, they're going to take a whole generation to get anywhere.

Jins good eye bulged and he growled, I will take over his Dynasty. I have been nothing but loyal. Chengs legacy will live onhis will be carried out by my hand, or anothers. He took a step forward menacingly, and said, I will bring down on you the entire weight of the Dynasty like nothing youve ever seen before. I will hunt you down and Cheng will be avenged. So run and

This is getting a little into Cheesy Asian Villain territory. Almost like Kai Leng in Mass Effect 3, and trust me, you don't want your villain to resemble Kai Leng. 

The bridge hadnt been in this condition since Nostos first made the jump from the Oassi.

Only typo I could spot in a very long document. Bravo.

Anyway, I spent way too much time reading this (3 hours or thereabouts) and it's 2 am in the morning, so I'm pretty much mentally dead. Anyway, since Stone is undoubtedly a scorched corpse now, West and co aren't as badly off as they could be. Still, that's still a cliffhanger ending to the season. :evil:

This man is very dumb and would probably deserve to get violently disintegrated by an orbital bombardment for trying that.Barb

He's the equivalent of a blue-collar foreman for a reason. :P I'll have to re-read, but I'm not sure if Lyle was ever stoutly opposed to Coalition assistance--he just wanted everyone else to hear Sarkin say it from his own mouth and get some of these issues out in the open.

Then again, navigating asteroid belts isnot going to be inherently dangerous, since the mean distance between asteroids is likely to be dozens if not hundreds of kilometres.Barb

Yes, yes. I remembered your words when I was writing, heh. Chalk it up to space opera, I think, unless there's something I can use to disguise a gangster hideout...

Either India is a huge woman or West is a tiny man. I can't imagine an average size man in my country actually wearing the same clothes as the average woman, and I'm pretty sure that men and women of Asian descent are much closer in relative size than whites.Barb

For whatever reason I imagine India to be really tall... and West to be on the shorter/smaller side. But yeah, there's no logic there. The lulz of cross dressing, is all.

This commander is exceptionally lucky that he didn't say this stuff to someone like Stone.Barb

I think Drake had Arturo figured upon meeting him in person. Plus, something's definitely working out for him-- he comes back twelve years later to command a Darkstar, after all :P. Drake don't scare easy and he's got some friends in very high places. This won't be the last we see of him (in terms of flashbacks).

Also, his logic about the fleet distribution is very shaky; if most pirate activity occurs outside the capital colonies, then by military logic counter-pirate forces must be concentrated outside the capital colonies. This does not necessarily have to invite a pirate attack on the capital colonies since that would mean going after well-developed targets far away from their bases of operation.Barb

You're probably 100% correct lol. I have no idea what I wrote (from July/early August) but I remember thinking that his point was essentially a sociological one, rather than a tactical one. Something about infrastructure and Keynesian economics. :P I'll give it some more thought when I get back home tonight.

Unfortunately the fact that we know the future completely kills any suspense here. Barb

Yeah, it's kind of hard to really draw things out in a flashback. I was just trying to play up the revelation of Wendal and Aron's relation (which to my knowledge, is a new development). I think the things I like most about flashbacks are just to show the origin/change in characters. I realized while writing that there is a pretty staunch student/mentor motif throughout the story and all of their origin stories essentially have something to do with that relationship and how it ends; Arturo/Drake, West/Sergeant Bell (he ****s over his mentor), India/Roderic, Tyrone/Mortan, Aden/Sin (she ****s her student, literally xP).

Only typo I could spot in a very long document. Bravo.Barb

After reading over the document in sections every now and then, I've picked out at least 7+ typoes or missing words. Funnily enough, I didn't catch that one ^ lol.

Anyway, I spent way too much time reading this (3 hours or thereabouts) and it's 2 am in the morning, so I'm pretty much mentally dead.Barb

As always, thank you very much for your time. I'll hold that I definitely wouldn't have completed this thing without your readership, and I know for a fact it definitely wouldn't have had the political undertones (or overtones) it does now if I didn't have your critique to draw inspiration from. So here's to you, man. You've helped in shaping the story a lot. Hopefully I'll see you when season 2 comes around--I continually look forward to your input.

He's the equivalent of a blue-collar foreman for a reason. :P I'll have to re-read, but I'm not sure if Lyle was ever stoutly opposed to Coalition assistance--he just wanted everyone else to hear Sarkin say it from his own mouth and get some of these issues out in the open.Sharpie125

Still, it wouldn't be hard to figure out that the Coalition can put way more force into an area than any one planet, even an industrial planet. Anyway he probably got burned to death in the firestorm later.

Yes, yes. I remembered your words when I was writing, heh. Chalk it up to space opera, I think, unless there's something I can use to disguise a gangster hideout...Sharpie125

Chances are, if the hideout is stuck in an asteroid belt then it's not going to get found unless there are people actively combing the asteroids. Given that the hideout must be regularly supplied and visited by its members, this implies that there isn't any real authority present in the area to notice the ships moving around. Whatever the case, an asteroid gang hideout that is properly placed and located would not be in any need of "disguises.

For whatever reason I imagine India to be really tall... and West to be on the shorter/smaller side. But yeah, there's no logic there. The lulz of cross dressing, is all.Sharpie125

It's not exactly unheard off for women to get to 5'10 or men to fall below 5'7". However, it would probably be advisable for someone in the story to make a passing mention of it, like maybe Tyrone could tell West "wow, ain't we lucky that you got the rough build of a lady" or something. 

I think Drake had Arturo figured upon meeting him in person. Plus, something's definitely working out for him-- he comes back twelve years later to command a Darkstar, after all :P. Drake don't scare easy and he's got some friends in very high places. This won't be the last we see of him (in terms of flashbacks).Sharpie125

Ahh, I kind of forgot that he was actually a character in the opening chapter who got on the wrong end of a supergun. 

You're probably 100% correct lol. I have no idea what I wrote (from July/early August) but I remember thinking that his point was essentially a sociological one, rather than a tactical one. Something about infrastructure and Keynesian economics. :P I'll give it some more thought when I get back home tonight.Sharpie125

I'm an economics student and I couldn't really how he was trying to get across his point. 

Yeah, it's kind of hard to really draw things out in a flashback. I was just trying to play up the revelation of Wendal and Aron's relation (which to my knowledge, is a new development). I think the things I like most about flashbacks are just to show the origin/change in characters. I realized while writing that there is a pretty staunch student/mentor motif throughout the story and all of their origin stories essentially have something to do with that relationship and how it ends; Arturo/Drake, West/Sergeant Bell (he ****s over his mentor), India/Roderic, Tyrone/Mortan, Aden/Sin (she ****s her student, literally xP).Sharpie125

I have no idea how you managed to unintentionally create a theme that stretches across like half of the main cast.

As always, thank you very much for your time. I'll hold that I definitely wouldn't have completed this thing without your readership, and I know for a fact it definitely wouldn't have had the political undertones (or overtones) it does now if I didn't have your critique to draw inspiration from. So here's to you, man. You've helped in shaping the story a lot. Hopefully I'll see you when season 2 comes around--I continually look forward to your input.

Sharpie125

You're welcome. Unfortunately you can't be guaranteed that my advice will always be good (all you can say for sure is that it has shaped this thing to be more in line with my personal tastes), but I hope that my contributions have added some depth and interest to the story. 

Still, it wouldn't be hard to figure out that the Coalition can put way more force into an area than any one planet, even an industrial planet. Anyway he probably got burned to death in the firestorm later. Barbariser

Here's my reason behind this, and it's nonsensical I know... Britain had the most powerful navy (and by extension was empowered by its Redcoats on the ground), so how did a bunch of rebels manage to rally support and gain independence? They of course didn't have orbital bombardments, so it puts a gaping hole in that analogy... but if we look at Rado Point from a modern perspective, people are appropriately skeptical of Fleet's abilities--rather, its capability to commit an atrocity. There is still the free press (or the illusion of it) on the capital colonies criticizing military action, and at least to me, it's unthinkable that they would firebomb their own people and their own territory at this point. The key here is twelve years ago, before the events of Gemini and Imperium's heyday. Coalition has not been revealed as evilly totalitarian just yet, simply imperialistic and expansionist. (FYI I retconned Coalition history a bit, leaving it a bit more open and less Nazi...)

Sarkin insists that Rado Point is a vital part of Fleet presence in terms of resources, so the people believe they have a bargaining chip of some sort. Arturo believes the colony deserves protection, as does Drake (though these two are doing it more for moral reasons, rather than fully tactical). Sarkin's point is rendered moot, however, if Fleet decides to cut all contact and support with the Nova colonies. Which does happen. There are Fleet ships close to the area, but do not join in the battle out of choice, or by Imperium order. This is I think a case of underestimation, as there is the ever present doubt that Fleet will turn on its own settlers and Lyle wants to drive a hard bargain. He thinks a little dissent is the equivalent of a worker's strike, but he is of course painfully mistaken, and subsequently annihilated. Anyone has to admit the step Fleet takes is on the extreme side, which again hasn't been evidenced in Coalition history up to that point. It's like a game of intergalactic chicken. But with the destruction of Rado Point, it establishes a precedent of Fleet's not so heroic reputation and leads to the outcome of the Gemini conflict where it's heavily implied that they firebombed the jungles after they pulled out as well.

And it's interesting that they choose clusterbombs rather than nuclear bombs. They want the land arable after the fires die out--not Chernobyl. But this is still frowned down upon by people, giving me reason to think that even if Fleet congregated on the Nova colonies, the more outspoken revolutionaries would see it at a chance at the mic on the galactic stage instead of the beginnings of a massacre. I'd think they have reason to believe Fleet wouldn't immediately start bombing them, but no, Nine Seven delivers a pre-emptive strike and things spiral out of control.

It's not exactly unheard off for women to get to 5'10 or men to fall below 5'7". However, it would probably be advisable for someone in the story to make a passing mention of it, like maybe Tyrone could tell West "wow, ain't we lucky that you got the rough build of a lady" or something. Barb

Heh, yeah that'll probably work. I kind of envisioned that India's leather jacket was too small for West, so he had to cover it up with a shawl/bedsheet. On my campus, I should note, there are many, many girls who are taller than some of my friends at over 6 feet >_>.

Ahh, I kind of forgot that he was actually a character in the opening chapter who got on the wrong end of a supergun. Barb

He might be the only reason I brought back Mortan as well. I was going to retcon Mortan from the pilot (just make him an unnamed man at the end of the battle), but then I needed someone to fill the role and thought he might be the perfect person. He kind of allowed me to give reason for the first space battle as well as the mercenary infiltration in the second episode... it's a little bit cheating lol. But in terms of how much is too much, did the reveal that he was India's biological father work? That came out of nowhere for me, and I decided to just run with it.

I'm an economics student and I couldn't really how he was trying to get across his point.Barb

Now I'm curious about what I was trying to say haha. I'll look over my notes, and see if I can drum up a worthy explanation. We did a section on Ireland last year, noting the cycle that the north is poor because they don't build infrastructure leading to the north; yet they don't build infrastructure BECAUSE it is poor and doesn't factor into capitalist sentimentalities. I'll see if I can find mention of Keynes and get back to you.

There's a few references to the Rim almost being like the capital colonies' (Britain's) Ireland... Sin's abusive father essentially being a potato farmer, off the top of my head :P.

I have no idea how you managed to unintentionally create a theme that stretches across like half of the main cast.Barb

I swear, I really didn't see it until I was just about finished chapter 6 of this episode (the latter half, just about). I was, however, reading a lot of Timothy Zahn's Star Wars novels, and after I thought about Luke/Obi-Wan, it kind of clicked for me. Maybe it's my equivalent of Quentin Tarantino's foot fetish :P

You're welcome. Unfortunately you can't be guaranteed that my advice will always be good (all you can say for sure is that it has shaped this thing to be more in line with my personal tastes), but I hope that my contributions have added some depth and interest to the story.

Barb

It was fun to think about. Less so to slave away and get frustrated at lol, but brainstorming was great. I'm glad it could be filled up with something, because my barebones plot was pretty flimsy by itself. I kind of like the politically driven history of the world, but on the flipside of that, with so much time spent on that, I'm a little worried about the change of direction that's to come. More fantasy, less grit... I think if I kept up the tone and use of flashbacks, the entire story could be told within Coalition space with Imperium being the main antagonists and appearances from other races a la Babylon 5, but the change of scenery could do everyone some good. I'm personally excited to start crafting new worlds, but I might need some time to gather inspiration. I think I might do releases chapter by chapter and see how that works out...

So, in terms of plot, I guess, did things click into place for this episode? The whole chapter 6 I resolved a few arcs, but I know I have a few threads I still need to wrap up, and I am kind of struggling with them, but do you have any issues with the last act+Mergence reveal/change?