BDOTW ~ Stark vs. Cross ~ Wild Wild Shootout!

Coyote Stark

vs.

Cross Marian

This is a Wild Wild shootout between Stark and Cross. On starks side, we have his trusty Lilynette Gingerback. However, she will not interfere with the fight. But she is there. So we can talk about her actions on the sidelines. But she doesnt actually participate untill he uses her for his resurrection.

The rules are as usual for BDOTW. Listen to my post and stay within the bounderies of the area I say we are currently discussing. Do not try to say "he would win!" we are not voting till I say its up to vote at the end.

THANK YOU EVERYONE WHO PARTICIPATED IN KENPACHI'S RAMPAGE BDOTW! The awsome ideas and activity in the thread this time was spectacular. It spanned too many months though, so lets hope we can keep the pace we had at the end there, constantly this time. this is supposed to be Battle Discussion Of The Week, not Battle Discussion Of The Several Months lol but thats ok, I can understand, lets just try to pick up the pace right at the start this time :) I like the pace we had shortly before I put it to vote. ^_^

Anyways, have fun with the debate all! Untill I post otherwise, start with opening moves and dialog. Stark and Cross just met, and they are trapped in a pocket dimension. It has a proper world though, just no real sentient life. Mainly plants and animals. There is a portal, but only one may make it through. As such they must fight to the death.

Points awards:

1 point for participating at all.

5 points for valid arguements. repeating a valid arguement more than once will only get the point the first time. valid arguements are to be determined by hitsugaya, kisuke, or shunsui (if he wishes). Valid arguements does not mean extreamly super awsome ones. I just mean a very valid point.

10 points for making at least three of the above valid arguements. When the third one is recorded, you still get the normal 5 pts for that one, but you also get 10 points for making three. This is only done once per month per thread.

Points will be posted at the end of the thread after it is locked. Do not panic if the awards are not handed out straight away, since it takes a lil work for us to go through and spot them all. but to make things easier we'll maintain a bullitin on this first post and update it as we go. but the 10 point ones will not be monitored as we go, those will be handled after the thread is closed.

BEGIN DISCUSSION!

Well I guess I'll be the first one to make a comment or two in this thread.

First of all, Stark being an Espada has abilities that Cross doesn't have, so I think that he would probably have a semi-civil conversation with Cross first; however this most likely wouldn't go well sine the portal mentioned will only allow one person through, they would probably both get down and dirty so to speak and have a physical fight with punching and such. As this went on, to speculate a bit further, Stark would poaaibly use some kind of attack involving reiatsu like a cero or similar method of attack. Cross being who he is also has other abilities that a "normal' human doesn't have and he would likely use those as well.

For one thing. This is another Stark vs Shunsui match. However, Cross is alot smarter than Shunsui and doesn't waste time. He want to get things over with so he can move on. Move on as in hide until he needs to come out again.

So. In the beginning of the match:

Stark talks. Cross probably talk but attack afterwards to get it overwith. Finally, the serious battle will begin. Oh another thing. Stark is a guy. Cross really going kill him. He only likes women only. He doesn't like ugly things around him. No, he's not like Yumachika.

Ok, thank you both, good ice-breakers.

Now, lets start with the beginning. it sounds like they will talk, but it sounds like they will not talk for very long. so what will be the opening moves? what do you all think would be the first move made? And by who?

I could definately see Cross using Maria in an attempt to confuse Stark. However, Stark is rather intelligent , observant and a very capable analyst; therefore most likely wouldn't fall victim too easily to her, not as easily as some others would, ones that are sweet on the ladies I mean.

Well that may be true to some extent Kiki, however because Stark is so observant and sees how attacks work after fery few tries, it will be difficult to fool him in the first place. Like in the Fake Kakarua Town arc, for example, he was able to pick up on that game Shunsui was playing with the shadows/colors (read about that on bleach.wikia). So once Cross uses Maria Stark is sure to figure it out and find a way to use it against Cross. Cross may be like Aizen, but that could actually give Stark the advantage since he also knows Aizen and how he operates.

Sorry but you are incorrect again. Maria is not like Shunsui's zanpakuto. You can not get out of Maria's hold. There's no loop hole to it.

Good example is this. Cross was hiding from the Black Order for 4 years probably using Maria. Two of the noahs thought they found Cross but they didn't. Cross is the Good Aizen of D.Gray-Man. It either Stark take the pain while fighting Cross or hurry before Cross use that deadly technique.

No loop hole... well then I would suspect that Stark would put up with some pain for a while. Stark has quite the arsenal of his own and shouldn't be taken lightly by any opponent. He isn't the Primera Espada for nothing. Stark could of course use his Enhanced Hierro which would make him resistant to any kind of pain, which I can see him doing. So while there isn't a loop hole, he does have several abilities that he can use and most likely will use.

Sure Cross may have used Maria to hide from the Black Order and the Noahs as well for a period of time, but that doesn't mean this will still work against the Premira Espada, who hapens to be very perceptive of his surroundings and the things that wre going on around him, meaning he can't be deceived easily or for very long. ... imo.

Would cross use the illusions right away or would he wait?daorack

It depends on the situation. Cross is kinda like Shunsui. (the cheapness to kill Stark or get Aizen in the shadow games) However, Cross have more skills than the other generals. So it depends on how strong Stark is.

Skills as in something that the Black Order doesn't like. For example, in bleach. Ichigo's hollow or vizard power. Cross Marian holds two innocenes and knows forbidden magic.

Hmm, that's a tough one to say Dao, it all depends on if Cross wants to hide from Stark. To me that would indicate fear of facing Stark, but who's to say for sure, after all right now we're just speculating on what they would do after talking for a short time...

Ok, well, lets not forget lily, whats she doing through all this? I bet she's being short tempered :P

would cross agrivate her?

Ok, well, lets not forget lily, whats she doing through all this? I bet she's being short tempered :P

would cross agrivate her?

daorack

No. I think Cross would try to hit on her.

In all seriousness, I wouldn't put it pass Cross to try to hit on her ... however Lily wouldn't take that too well I'm sure, since she is the other half of Stark, she is pretty powerful herself and would more than likely be really pissed off. And I don't think Stark would take the too well either.

EDIT: (I editied this post and removed some questionable wording that I totally didn't think about when I wrote it the first time)

(bella, not sure if that was actually against TOS or not, but it might be best to watch the lingo just incase XD)

but I do agree, she wouldnt take too well to that. I wonder how long it would take her to get so rialed up that Stark had to make her settle down O_o

(Oh gosh I totally wasn't even thinking about that... sorry about that, I should fix it asap)

I bet it would take Stark a very long time to get Lily settled down... and that would be a huge distraction as well. That could give Cross some advantage in this as well...which might have been his plan from the start, to create a distraction for Stark.

Cross can created alot of distractions. Do not forget that Cross can control Akumas.

Indeed he can and those distractions can probably be an issue with Stark for a short time, then once he understands what Cross is doing he won't fall for it again, but rather be able to attack Cross back say with Ceros for example. Stark is very observant and can't be tricked for long. Cross has the use of Maria to try to "blind" him to reality to some extent, as well as the Carte Gard move which is a kind of mind control, however Stark is very strong in every aspect from what I've seen, even though he doesn't really care about other's, Lily not included since she is his other half. As far as the Akumas are concerned, well I think that Stark could make very short work of them...if by some chance Cross was able to get one into ther realm they are in during this situation. Remember only 1 can get through the "portal" and you know that Lily and Stark will join again eventually, thus only making 1 person.

Akuma in their realm?

HA! Cross already did. If he mod one Akuma, he probably mod more in his past. Cross has them ready on his command. I see this match as even in the beginning. Even if Stark goes resureccion.

ok, how long would this go on before stark got fed up and used lily to make his guns?

NOTE: THIS IS A WILD WILD SHOOTOUT SO I EXPECT THE SHOOTING/GUNFIGHT PART TO LAST A WHILE, REGARDLESS OF THEIR USUAL PERSONALITIES.

This is defiantly a good question Dao, just how long would Stark wait before he joined with Lily to make his guns... I'm not sure just how long he would wait. But I do know this, once he did reach that point it would be all out war between Cross and him. Stark would most likely continue the shootout until he beat Cross... just how long that would take is anybody's guess...

I'm sure that the rest of the people taking part in this discussion will have much to say about this...

Especially you skfm2...

I dont know much about cross, so this is where kisuke comes in.

kisuke, how long do you think it'd take for cross to start fighting seriously and push this to the next stage?

I dont know much about cross, so this is where kisuke comes in.

kisuke, how long do you think it'd take for cross to start fighting seriously and push this to the next stage?

daorack

Hmmmm I guess Cross get serious when Stark get serious. I view both Cross matches in D. Gray-Man. I have to say. Cross only act serious once.

ok, so stark would prolly take a while of messing around before he finally got bored of the match and wanted to progress it to the next stage.

how long would this take? what would he do untill then? what would cross do? what do you think would happen exactly to trigger the transition?

and last but not least, whats lily doing? XD

I have to say this. Stark to me isn't the 1st Espada type. If this was a Cross vs Barrigan, then it would be epic and not slow match.

Cross knows Stark is a threat. However, if Stark doesn't do anything, Cross going find a chick and never come back until next week or even later (4 years or more). Lily to me will not do anything. Cross going toy with her and leave. Cross doesn't have time to sit around. Good example is Episode 96 of D.Gray-Man. Cross was trying to leave after the Noah Ark Arc.

yes, but for sake of the thread, lets say he does not leave.

so the battle continues.

Ok. Second side of the story or the alt side of the story. I have to say we duck for cover or make sure our limbs are not cut off by Stark. :lol:

If Lily jumps in, I think Cross use Maria on her so she be hidden. Cross did the same thing with Allen and his group in the Noah Ark Arc.

well, in this case, lily doesnt actually participate as in fight, she's there, think of her the way she was in stark vs. shunsui, except there's no ukitake to anger her XD

so she's just there so he can get his guns later XD

but good point kisuke, if she did jump in, she'd get one of his abilities used on her

at this point, would they be forced to draw their guns?

Original Arrow of Sin

&

Judgement: Purge Level

Those are two are the known powerful techniques of Judgement. They are probably more but Cross is MIA in the manga.

The tough part of Judgement is the bullets PERIOD! They are like bullets that never die unless they hit their targets.

Is there a limit to the size of Starrk's pack? dancingbeatle

nah he got over 100 out.. I'm pretty sure..

so the wolves wouldnt last long before it turned into the wild wild shootout we'v been gearing up for :P

how would the transition happen between the wolves and stark finally switching to a shootout with guns? :O

i think the wolves would last about 5 minutes with all the exploding.

once the last wolf is destroyed stark would pull out his guns and sonido over to cross and firing at point blank rannge

*reading all the past posts since my last one on the 16th*

Well it seems to me that you all think that Maria will have a chance of beating Stark and his HUGE wolf pack... I'm not rulling that out, however I do think that Cross will be injured fairly badly by them, there by lowering his strength/power.  Yes I know he has the Carte Garde and the other healing ability, however I seriously doubt that he would use those unless there is no other alternative.  Like if he was on death's doorstep, to hide for a while, etc. 

Stark wouldn't likely give Cross a chance to hide and just start shooting with his guns relentlessly, once his wolf pack was totally gone. He isn't one to just up and give-up.   Cross's Judgement  is definatley powerful, but I also think that Stark would possible be able to dodge those bullets because of his sonido ability, also he could use ceros to destroy them...the ceros would be like a target for them essentially.  There is always a weakness and knowing how Stark can figure out things rather quiclky when it comes to the opponent he is fighting, it woudn't take long at all for him to counter the bullets of Judgement. 

As far as Lilly is concerned, I doubt very much that Cross would waste his time using Maria to hide her, not with all the other things going on and as I just stated, Stark is a quick study of his opponents, he would likely deal Maria some damaging blows, even though she is technically a corpse already, that doesn't mean she can't be dispatched.  What would Cross do without her, would he ba able to withstand Stark's attacks?  I wonder ...

wow, some really good points in that post O_O

I dont know much about cross. So again this is PURELY speculation. But what if cross got badly wounded by the wolfpack? Would he be able to keep up in an all out shootout while wounded? Again this is purely speculation, not saying he WOULD be wounded.

Now, on the flipside. If he was NOT wounded, would stark be able to keep up with him?

and what if stark cant destroy any of Cross's things? What if stark got wounded?

Or they both got wounded?

Speculate.

wow, some really good points in that post O_O

I dont know much about cross. So again this is PURELY speculation. But what if cross got badly wounded by the wolfpack? Would he be able to keep up in an all out shootout while wounded? Again this is purely speculation, not saying he WOULD be wounded. daorack

Now, on the flipside. If he was NOT wounded, would stark be able to keep up with him? daorack

Well again, I think that Stark could keep up with Cross, as I stated in my previous post, he is a fast study of his opponents attacks./moves/etc and this gives him the advantage. I don't know if Cross is this way at all, as far as picking up on his opponents attacks/moves... Stark is very good at sonidos and this would also be an advantage, as far as stamina goes, well I'm not at all certain at this point since they've been going at it with physical attacks for so long. Determination plays a HUGE role in this battle.

and what if stark cant destroy any of Cross's things? What if stark got wounded? daorack

Or they both got wounded?

Speculate. daorack

Well let's see.. if they both were hurt, then it would seem to be a matter of who would had the most determination and wanted to get back the most. I don't see either one of them giving up easily in a situation like that, it would definately be a battle to the death in this case without a doubt.

How's that for speculating :P lol

You can not destroy what's already .... dead. Maria is dead if you notice. Cross is keep her active because of forbidden magic. sfkm2

what is maria exactly?daorack

A dead corpse control by Cross' forbidden magic. Maria is a human but her innocene is what Cross is using. Like I said. I worry about Maria, Judgement, and that forbidden Magic that Cross have up his sleeve.sfkm2

Well Kisuke, I'm well aware that Maria is already dead and that Cross manipulates her through her innoscence; I would like to point out that even a corpse can be destroyed and therefore would no longer be under the control of Cross. Maria may not be "alive" in the sense of living by her own means, and just being forced to serve Cross with this forbidden magic he knows/has. When I said "destroyed" I didn't mean "killing" her, but literally destroying the corpse putting it out of existance completely. In thus doing so Cross would be at a huge disadvantage because it's through Maria that he gets most of his strength like Judgment and his other abilities such as Carte Garde for example.

Stark on the other hand, has Lilynette who is actually a part of himself, which is completely different from Cross. Lilynette isn't a corpse being controlled by Stark, although they both work together as a team, her becoming his guns. If by chance she was taken out by Cross... and I don't mean on a date either lol ... then Stark wouldn't have his guns to fight with. However that doesn't necessarily mean that Stark would be on the short end of the stick in the battle. As has already been noted several times, he is a quick study of his opponents and therefore a formidible enemy not to be taken lightly.