Not all games need to be bloody shoot/kill anything that moves type games.
This. Last gen was completely swamped with brown, guns, shoot, kill, tits, more shooting type of games. Frankly its getting very old always seeing the same thing with slightly different mechanics or graphics. Im glad most of the frat boy dude-bro games arent on the Wii U. It doesnt need them to be great.
@Salt_The_Fries: Goldeneye? Perfect Dark? Conner? Eternal Darkness, Metroid Prime, Geist, Bayonetta 2, Devil's Third? Come on, man.
Zangeki no Reginleiv is possibly the goriest game Nintendo has but it didn't release stateside. They have made a bunch of adult games. TC be trying to troll lol
I love how these topics always act like everything that Nintendo does is aimed at kids while ignoiring franchises like Xenoblade, Fire Emblem, some of the darker Legend of Zelda games, The Last Story, and the fact that they helped fund Bayonetta 2 and are part owners of the Fatal Frame series.
Yes, Nintendo puts out tons of Mario, Kirby, and Donkey Kong games that appeal to kids. That's what built their business, and those are some of their best selling franchises. Mario sells Nintendo systems even to this day because they are not only quality games, but they are games that an entire family can enjoy. Plus, Nintendo's games tend to stand out in a market where many companies are dead-set on appealing to young adult males and trying to one up each other with the amount of blood, nudity, and cussing they can fit into the disc.
Now, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. But this is a loaded question that could apply to other companies. Why does Pixar only make computer animated movies that are aimed at families? Because they are damn good at it, and that's what built their business. I find it funny that Nintendo gets called out for making and building their consoles around family friendly games, but nobody is demanding Pixar make a movie that has sex and gore. You know why nobody is asking for that? Because people like Pixar movies the way they are. If they want blood, sex, and cussing, they have tons of other options when it comes to movies that have that stuff.
That's where Nintendo does the same thing, Mario sells their consoles and is still popular with consumers. Why? Because Microsoft quite frankly has nothing that appeals to that audience. Sony has a few franchsies, but their games that get the most promotion are often the M-rated franchises. Nintendo builds their console business around being a family-friendly company that does offbeat game.
This is a stupid question to ask. It's like asking why Disney is not putting out an animated movie with an explicit sex-scene between the princess and the main male character and tons of blood filling the screen. Because that's not what Disney movies do. But Disney does do own other franchises that are edger then what they make, generally the movies made by the studios and networks that they own.
And that's the thing with Nintendo. For ever Mario and Donkey Kong they put out, they have series Fire Emblem and Xenoblade. Fire Emblem does not have blood covering the screen and explicit sex scenes, but many of the games cover topics that are pretty mature. Fire Emblem is not aimed at children. Play any game, and the storyline and dialogue makes that very clear. All the deaths tend to happen offscreen, but Fire Emblem does not try to make things warm and fuzzy. Its a Fantasy War series, and it almost never beats around the bush about what is going on because the the wars.
You also have games like Advance Wars: Days of Ruin that quite frankly do not dance around the fact that its a game set in a world that is devastated with a war going on.
I find it funny that Wind Waker is also brought into this, but it ignores that their have been some dark Zelda games.
This is the key thing, blood does not have to be splattered all over the screen for something to be mature. Take the Dark Knight. It's considered not only a great comic book movie, but a great movie overall. It's also considered a disturbing movie despite hardly any blood or graphic violence being shown on screen.
Nintendo does family friendly games like Mario because they are the most successful games Nintendo makes. Their is a audience for those games, that's why almost all of Mario's games sell. But to simply act like all they do is kiddy cartoony games is a silly argument. They have done games with mature storylines and theme. The difference is that they don't do games that blanket the screen with gallons of blood and have nudity all over the place.
A better statement is "Why does Nintendo not make gorefests?"
So...where are those adult games you are talking about?...i mean i only see The Last of Us which it has a pretty kick ass and mature ending...aside from that i fail to see any true "adult" game in there.
How about a Mario game where Toad(s) is sick of being a fucking servant and teams up with Bowser and the koopas to bring down the monarchy? Maybe they happily vote for Bowser as their new ruler? And maybe Luigi thinks they have a point? And maybe Mario (aka the player) has to choose whether to choose his bro vs. his ho, social stability vs a more just world? (That's an intentionally absurd example, please don't take it so seriously... just an idea of some sort of conflict, choice and originality they could introduce to their game stories)
Are you for real...LMAO, that was funny as hell, and yes i read the part when you said that it was an absurd example, but just thinking about any "deep plot" with some sort of moral choices in the Super Mario universe is beyond laughable, sorry but is not unlikely...it will neve happend unless Nintendo decided they want to kill their main franchise.
The better question is why do they have to? I don't buy Nintendo games for dark twisted stories or so called complex characters, I buy them for smart design, top notch gameplay, smart/good writing, and humor.
Though Nintendo (or at least Intelligent Systems) can create interesting characters and games with dark themes when they want to.
“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”
Because we adults don't care if our games have bright colours and fun worlds or not. Seriously, the only people who have a problem with Nintendo games because they're too "childish" have a severe insecurity regarding their masculinity or maturity. If the games don't appeal to you then fine, but if you whine about them being immature and want to brotect yourself behind the muscly arms of "dark and violent games" then I'm going to assume you have some issues.
Edit: Or you're possibly 12... which seems a lot more likely
The laws of SW dictate that this thread must be made at least every two months.
By the same few people, engaged in a never ending relay of shitty, regurgitated SW topics, no less.
Next up: 'Why does Nintendo rehash the same games over and over so much?'
Damn, it is about that time isn't it?
Must mean "Nintendo should go 3rd party" and "Give me dark gritty zelda" are just around the corner.
Waiting on speak_low for that one. Dude seems to have gone in hibernation ever since Bayonetta scored a 10 though, so that one may actually be delayed this time around.
How about a Mario game where Toad(s) is sick of being a fucking servant and teams up with Bowser and the koopas to bring down the monarchy? Maybe they happily vote for Bowser as their new ruler? And maybe Luigi thinks they have a point? And maybe Mario (aka the player) has to choose whether to choose his bro vs. his ho, social stability vs a more just world? (That's an intentionally absurd example, please don't take it so seriously... just an idea of some sort of conflict, choice and originality they could introduce to their game stories)
Are you for real...LMAO, that was funny as hell, and yes i read the part when you said that it was an absurd example, but just thinking about any "deep plot" with some sort of moral choices in the Super Mario universe is beyond laughable, sorry but is not unlikely...it will neve happend unless Nintendo decided they want to kill their main franchise.
Yeah... leave that stuff for the likes of devs like Bioware or CD Projeckt Red and their RPG's. NOT Nintendo and freaking Mario games.
Waiting on speak_low for that one. Dude seems to have gone in hibernation ever since Bayonetta scored a 10 though, so that one may actually be delayed this time around.
Wonder if @speak_low is genuinely hurt, or if he's secretly playing it in his Nintendo themed basement?
Either way speak_mad, we have a schedule to keep up here, better get on it.
Waiting on speak_low for that one. Dude seems to have gone in hibernation ever since Bayonetta scored a 10 though, so that one may actually be delayed this time around.
Wonder if @speak_low is genuinely hurt, or if he's secretly playing it in his Nintendo themed basement?
Either way speak_mad, we have a schedule to keep up here, better get on it.
I suspect he'll be back soon, Nintendo release their quarterly financial results this week!
Only kids want to "Grow up and remove all immature content" ... when you are a comfortable adult.... you shouldn't mind nintendo's game themes.... infact they are quite nice.
I say it again... only kids and teens obsess over "being adult" .... childish in itself.
Nintendo's game themes certainly are nice... to point of complete mind numbing boredom. Some people enjoy complexity, darkness, conflict and emotionally mature themes, inappropriate (for multiple reasons) to a children's game.
Nothing wrong with Nintendo making family friendly games but they have never, ever moved me in the same a title like, say, Bioshock, Portal, or The Last Of Us has. And they almost certainly never will. The closest they come is when they go for pure abstract atmosphere, mainly in Metroid but somewhat in Zelda (Windwaker springs to mind). But lack of compelling characters and plot is a bit of a downer.
The uber defensive sheep aside, it is indeed one of their main flaws as a game developer, imo. The shallowness and fluffiness of nearly all their titles' stories, themes and worlds. They could really enrich their amazing gameplay if they cared about putting in some sort of effort in those areas, just a little bit of interesting or unexpected conflict.
How about a Mario game where Toad(s) is sick of being a fucking servant and teams up with Bowser and the koopas to bring down the monarchy? Maybe they happily vote for Bowser as their new ruler? And maybe Luigi thinks they have a point? And maybe Mario (aka the player) has to choose whether to choose his bro vs. his ho, social stability vs a more just world? (That's an intentionally absurd example, please don't take it so seriously... just an idea of some sort of conflict, choice and originality they could introduce to their game stories)
Using the example of 2D platformers last gen, New Super Mario Brothers Wii was one of the best one I played, mechanics wise. But I prefered the XBLA title Limbo, out roughly the same time. Mechanically it was worse, but it's dark concept and visuals made it a much more interesting, rewarding and memorable game, rather than my 50th time bouncing on Koopas and saving the Princess.
I must repeat, the gameplay was better done in Mario. But I can't remember much of it, and was pretty bored in a "Been there, done that" way with it. While Limbo was lesser in gameplay but has stuck with me to this day. The poor child, the terrifying world, the dark ending and the endless horrible deaths are completely inappropriate to children, but enriched the game for me. What a messed up but enjoyable title.
People are allowed to want that sort of thing from Nintendo. They are allowed to want more meaningful and conflicted stories, themes and worlds from them, rather then the same old shit of saving princesses and being the squeaky clean good guy.
Though I do admit it's very unlikely to ever happen, and they should just look elsewhere for that type of thing.
Games don't need a good story... its an option. while I'm sure it wouldn't harm... as you hinted at the end, its unlikely due to their themes... and rightfully so.
Case and Point the most played genre (MOBA) is void of any ingame story. nobody gives a flying Fook about it. same applies to nintendo's games. I was quite the opposite... Limbo came off as a pretentious reptitive mediocre game to me.... relying mainly on its presentation.
Must mean "Nintendo should go 3rd party" and "Give me dark gritty zelda" are just around the corner.
Waiting on speak_low for that one. Dude seems to have gone in hibernation ever since Bayonetta scored a 10 though, so that one may actually be delayed this time around.
@locopatho: I'm sorry, but everything you just said literally sounds like the worst possible thing that could happen to Nintendo games. I mean, I know differing opinions and everything, and you are certainly entitled to your own, but I would be severely disappointed if Nintendo decided to go that direction with their games.
Don't be sorry :P
I expect most/all Sheep to disagree with me. After all, if they were after what I was on about, they wouldn't be Sheep! The folks (including me) who want that stuff are gaming (for the most part) elsewhere.
I still think it'd be cool to see Nintendo try it though. After all, didn't everyone cream themselves for Majora's Mask, which brought in the darkness, horror, moral ambiguity, conflict, etc that I was on about? :P
thinking about any "deep plot" with some sort of moral choices in the Super Mario universe is beyond laughable AGREED!
it will neve happend AGREED AGAIN!
@MBirdy88
"Games don't need a good story... its an option. while I'm sure it wouldn't harm..."
Agreed, but a good story can improve a game that already is fun to play. Platforming is fun, it can be even better if I care about WHY I'm platforming, eg to guide a lonely little boy through the darkness and horror and death of Limbo. Shooting zombies is fun, it's more fun if I care about WHY I'm shooting them, eg to save a child who can cure a global pandemic. I don't care about what I'm doing in 2D Mario and COD Zombies, I do care about what I'm doing in Limbo and Last Of Us. And that makes a big difference to me.
"as you hinted at the end, its unlikely due to their themes... and rightfully so."
Agree with the unlikely, disagree with the "rightfully so". Majora's Mask shows how fucking epic they could make their games with more darkness, conflict and mature themes.
"Case and Point the most played genre (MOBA) is void of any ingame story. nobody gives a flying Fook about it. same applies to nintendo's games."
Sure, and as you might have guessed, I don't give a **** about that genre :P I care not what the majority thinks, just expressing my opinion. Most gamers don't care about story in their games really. It's more of a "niche" or "core" gamer thing I think, along with reviewers. Most gamers just want fun gameplay, which is obviously fine.
"I was quite the opposite... Limbo came off as a pretentious reptitive mediocre game to me.... relying mainly on its presentation."
Fair enough. Great presentation/story wouldn't save bad gameplay, but I thought it was pretty good mechanics wise, and the presentation just elevated it further. Agree to disagree, obviously!
@locopatho: I'm sorry, but everything you just said literally sounds like the worst possible thing that could happen to Nintendo games. I mean, I know differing opinions and everything, and you are certainly entitled to your own, but I would be severely disappointed if Nintendo decided to go that direction with their games.
Don't be sorry :P
I expect most/all Sheep to disagree with me. After all, if they were after what I was on about, they wouldn't be Sheep! The folks (including me) who want that stuff are gaming (for the most part) elsewhere.
I still think it'd be cool to see Nintendo try it though. After all, didn't everyone cream themselves for Majora's Mask, which brought in the darkness, horror, moral ambiguity, conflict, etc that I was on about? :P
As far as Majora's Mask (or any Nintendo games where they do tackle mature themes) goes, there are two things to remember:
a) It was still done with the traditional Nintendo whimsy, and actually would not fall under the traditional, laughable definition of mature that most video game players actually seem to hold (in spite of its thematic complexity)
b) The story came second, the gameplay came first. That's how Nintendo always does it, it focuses on the gameplay first, and that's why its gameplay is second to none in the industry. The story of Majora's Mask, as celebrated as it is, was a byproduct of Nintendo wanting to focus on some very specific set of game mechanics. Usually, Nintendo's focus on game mechanics, however, does not yield that kind of a story, it yields the kinds of minimal narratives we are used to from their games (though even there, games like post N64 Zelda titles, or Metroid, or Kid Icarus, exhibit some great narratives). Once again, if Nintendo were to do it your way, we'd never get the games we get from them.
You speak of mature gaming, but really, outside of maybe Bioshock and The Last of Us, I can't think of any AAA game that's actually mature or thematically enough to be a satisfying experience, like you said in your post. I mean, what, Assassin's Creed? Halo? Gears of War? Uncharted? They have laughable narrative content, and because they even lack the minimalism of Nintendo's stories because of their attempts to tell an epic story dammit, they even lack the interpretative quality of Nintendo's stories. So sure, call Nintendo out on it if you want to, but at least be consistent and don't pretend like Sony, Microsoft, or literally anybody else in the AAA space does good stories, you'd have to go all the way to Japan or to indie games to actually find video games with thematic complexity.
Finally, my response was generally directed towards the Mario example in your post.
As far as Majora's Mask (or any Nintendo games where they do tackle mature themes) goes, there are two things to remember:
a) It was still done with the traditional Nintendo whimsy, and actually would not fall under the traditional, laughable definition of mature that most video game players actually seem to hold (in spite of its thematic complexity)
I'm not using the "silly" or "childish" meaning of mature though. I mean, genuinely interesting, complex, dark, morally ambiguous, makes you think kind of games. I'm not talking boobs n' blood "mature". Majora's Mask is definitely a mature game, at least to you and me.
b) The story came second, the gameplay came first. That's how Nintendo always does it, it focuses on the gameplay first, and that's why its gameplay is second to none in the industry. The story of Majora's Mask, as celebrated as it is, was a byproduct of Nintendo wanting to focus on some very specific set of game mechanics. Usually, Nintendo's focus on game mechanics, however, does not yield that kind of a story, it yields the kinds of minimal narratives we are used to from their games (though even there, games like post N64 Zelda titles, or Metroid, or Kid Icarus, exhibit some great narratives). Once again, if Nintendo were to do it your way, we'd never get the games we get from them.
Gameplay first is a wonderful thing, and I wouldn't change that at all. I vehemently disagree that that precludes any effort in stories, themes and atmosphere though. You CAN have both, albeit it's not very common. And having both, is better than just having one. Zelda gameplay with the story of Majora > just Zelda gameplay with a boring generic story.
You speak of mature gaming, but really, outside of maybe Bioshock and The Last of Us, I can't think of any AAA game that's actually mature or thematically enough to be a satisfying experience, like you said in your post.
I mentioned those two, yep. Also Portal, and it's sequel now that I think of it. I'd also throw in some Bioware games, the Deus Ex games, the Arkham games, Half Life 2, the Fallout series (yes, even the Bethesda ones!), Rockstar games at times. Team Ico. Metal Gear Solid, when it's not being insane/silly. Some indie games, like Limbo, Braid, Bastion. I'm not saying it's hugely common or easy to do. Just that it's pretty fucking awesome when it does work out. And that it's ok to want a game like that from Nintendo.
I mean, what, Assassin's Creed? Halo? Gears of War? Uncharted? They have laughable narrative content, and because they even lack the minimalism of Nintendo's stories because of their attempts to tell an epic story dammit, they even lack the interpretative quality of Nintendo's stories. So sure, call Nintendo out on it if you want to, but at least be consistent and don't pretend like Sony, Microsoft, or literally anybody else in the AAA space does good stories, you'd have to go all the way to Japan or to indie games to actually find video games with thematic complexity.
I didn't mention any of those games though, nor did I praise Sony or MS. So I'm not sure why you're going off on a rant :) I prefer when games at least try though. Say, Far Cry 2 which at least referenced blood diamonds and Western mercenaries ruining the lands of Africa. I'm not saying it's a great game or a great story. But just trying to have even a little bit of complexity and moral ambiguity to my actions made it more interesting and stand out more than, say, any of the Tom Clancy, Call Of Duty or Medal Of Honour games. They all blur together. But Far Cry 2, with worse gameplay than any of them, stands out more in my mind as an experience. I felt like an asshole, slaughtering my way around Africa and stealing their wealth. I actually LIKE that they made me feel that way. It was new and different.
Finally, my response was generally directed towards the Mario example in your post.
Which I clearly labelled as intentionally absurd. Just an example of what COULD be done. Obviously more appropriate in their more believable games like Zelda, Metroid, Fire Emblem, etc.
Ya know, if it counts for anything, the first porn site I ever visited was called Zelda.
There I was at my dads office some time in the 90s. My dad was all like "welcome my son... welcome to the machine". Basically said look son this is the internet, look up whatever the **** you want I'll be back in a few.
Of course boobs were the first thing to cross my mind, but I decided to go with the 2nd thought and look up video game stuff instead so I look up Zelda... still got boobs anyways so I guess I won.
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