Why Does MS Charge For XBL
This topic is locked from further discussion.
It's just a testament to the xbox fanbase when MS tried to pull the same crap on PC and failed while they try it on xbox and succeeded massively.sky_rend
Its nothing to do with the xbox fanbase. If Sony had've pulled the same thing, the playstation fanbase would have payed up too. The only reason it failed on the PC is because its an open platform. There are plenty of free alternatives.
[QUOTE="sky_rend"]It's just a testament to the xbox fanbase when MS tried to pull the same crap on PC and failed while they try it on xbox and succeeded massively.Anjunaddict
Its nothing to do with the xbox fanbase. If Sony had've pulled the same thing, the playstation fanbase would have payed up too. The only reason it failed on the PC is because its an open platform. There are plenty of free alternatives.
Pretty much. XBL Gold is essentially extortion as people have no other choices if they want to do online multiplayer and since Xbox 360 titles keep dropping local multiplayer what can people do except for pay or pay full price for half of a game?
Steam is a perfect example of why XBL is a ripoff. It's a better platform than XBL and it's free.RotaryRX7as useless as it is, XBL provides services for games that no other service provides. For the most part its built in features, for example live chat, when they update the cdec this fall all the games even ones from 2005 will be improved...
[QUOTE="Anjunaddict"]
[QUOTE="sky_rend"]It's just a testament to the xbox fanbase when MS tried to pull the same crap on PC and failed while they try it on xbox and succeeded massively.Aidenfury19
Its nothing to do with the xbox fanbase. If Sony had've pulled the same thing, the playstation fanbase would have payed up too. The only reason it failed on the PC is because its an open platform. There are plenty of free alternatives.
Pretty much. XBL Gold is essentially extortion as people have no other choices if they want to do online multiplayer and since Xbox 360 titles keep dropping local multiplayer what can people do except for pay or pay full price for half of a game?
Xbox 360 is actually better for splitscreen than the competition
It's just a testament to the xbox fanbase when MS tried to pull the same crap on PC and failed while they try it on xbox and succeeded massively.sky_rendThat's crap. The PC has multiple options, the people within the Xbox live infrastructure don't have any choice.
It isn't even a fair comparison. If the only way to play multiplayer games on the PC was through XBL they'd be paying too.This isn't rocket science. The PC is an open platform with no restrictions, GFWL with the XBL business model was doomed to fail from the very beginning.
...because they can.
[QUOTE="Keiji993"]
[QUOTE="heretrix"]
Why do designers charge more for their clothes?
Why do they charge for bottled water?
Why does Sony make expensive TV sets?
Why does Apple charge what they charge for their macs?
It's business. You don't like the price you go somewhere else. You aren't always going to like what someone charges for their goods. There's no sense being immature about it.
heretrix
Business = getting ripped off?
You have to have XBL Gold to have full access for the rest of the game, which has probably the most replay value.
They need to include online on XBL Silver and its almost 2011 and every other gaming system has free online gaming.
This is your logic: "I just bought a box of pizza but i have to pay per slice" < That's proper business right?
You have the option to not deal with that BS. You can whine about getting ripped off but how is that possible if you are not buying it? The fact that there are other options available even's it all out.You have just proven you don't know a damn thing about my logic. My logic is "I don't like it I won't spend my cash on it" You can charge me 100 dollars a minute for internet access, as it is your right to charge whatever you want for your product, but i sure as hell ain't gonna buy it. But I'm not gonna cry about it either. I'll just laugh in your face and tell you to go to hell.
For example, I know lots of people who spend upwards to 80 bucks for a designer T-shirt. Are you telling me that just because there are cheaper T-shirts out there that the designer doesn't have a right to sell their shirts and that they should be cheaper because you might want one?
That's incredibly silly. Just don't buy the shirt.
Alright so you dont think they should include the rest of the game for XBL Silver?
Doesn't make alot of sense to charge for online modes while anyone else gets it for free.
Its like your paying for scholarships that everyone else around you is getting for free. Doesn't make sense now does it?
[QUOTE="erglesmergle"]Both answers above are correct. I wish I could have clicked them both. Microsoft uses the money to expand the server and provide a LOT more content then what PSN or Steam has to offer. Does STEAM have movies, Netflix, Facebook, Tweeter, FM.com, a GameRoom, Demos for every XBLA game and all the hottest new titles?. Does it do acheivements and keep track of leaderboards and stats for most of their games? PSN is getting there, but it still doesn't have the huge amount of content that XBL has. Soon, you won't even need a controller to navigate it.The poll got glitched yesterday so I made a new one. Is XBL $50 (soon to be $60) material or just a way for MS to cash in.
XanderZane
Did we ask for those features? Do we even care about those features? We get all that stuff free on the PC. Do you know how many people would rather have free online access and the other USELESS XBL features optional?
Why do designers charge more for their clothes?
Why do they charge for bottled water?
Why does Sony make expensive TV sets?
Why does Apple charge what they charge for their macs?
It's business. You don't like the price you go somewhere else. You aren't always going to like what someone charges for their goods. There's no sense being immature about it.
heretrix
Its hard to ignore this issue when Im seeing so many fellow gamers blindly being ripped off. Theres nothing immature about trying to convince others to spend their money in a smarter way. Whats immature is saying "Its business".
You have the option to not deal with that BS. You can whine about getting ripped off but how is that possible if you are not buying it? The fact that there are other options available even's it all out.[QUOTE="heretrix"]
[QUOTE="Keiji993"]
Business = getting ripped off?
You have to have XBL Gold to have full access for the rest of the game, which has probably the most replay value.
They need to include online on XBL Silver and its almost 2011 and every other gaming system has free online gaming.
This is your logic: "I just bought a box of pizza but i have to pay per slice" < That's proper business right?
Keiji993
You have just proven you don't know a damn thing about my logic. My logic is "I don't like it I won't spend my cash on it" You can charge me 100 dollars a minute for internet access, as it is your right to charge whatever you want for your product, but i sure as hell ain't gonna buy it. But I'm not gonna cry about it either. I'll just laugh in your face and tell you to go to hell.
For example, I know lots of people who spend upwards to 80 bucks for a designer T-shirt. Are you telling me that just because there are cheaper T-shirts out there that the designer doesn't have a right to sell their shirts and that they should be cheaper because you might want one?
That's incredibly silly. Just don't buy the shirt.
Alright so you dont think they should include the rest of the game for XBL Silver?
Doesn't make alot of sense to charge for online modes while anyone else gets it for free.
Its like your paying for scholarships that everyone else around you is getting for free. Doesn't make sense now does it?
You still conviently skip over important details like buying something else. Who gives a crap if you have no intention on buying it? I know I don't.I don't give a crap how much Nintendo milks their customers (hypothetical) because I don't want a Wii. So any tactics toward their customers is of no concern to me.
I've had XBL since the beginning on the original Xbox, when there was no free PSN for people to compare it to. As of today, there are still areas where PSN needs to catch up, but the improvements made to it since it's launch have made me question the value of XBL often. The price increase is another reason for me to reconsider. The fact that I've been good enough to get discount cards and lucky to score a couple of free years of membership have given the service value to me. No longer though.
I love how people come in here with this holier than thou BS argument about PSN as if it existed from day one. Sony wisely undercut MS on price, there was no way in hell they would be able to compete with XBL on a subscription level. And they STILL, even with PSN being free, aren't dominating the online console space. The only thing that I'm really annoyed off about in this whole thing is MS's stubbornness to adjust to what's happening in the market and it's going to gut their silly asses. And they freakin deserve it.
[QUOTE="heretrix"]
Why do designers charge more for their clothes?
Why do they charge for bottled water?
Why does Sony make expensive TV sets?
Why does Apple charge what they charge for their macs?
It's business. You don't like the price you go somewhere else. You aren't always going to like what someone charges for their goods. There's no sense being immature about it.
erglesmergle
Its hard to ignore this issue when Im seeing so many fellow gamers blindly being ripped off. Theres nothing immature about trying to convince others to spend their money in a smarter way. Whats immature is saying "Its business".
Who are you to determine what's "smarter" for people?[QUOTE="erglesmergle"]
[QUOTE="heretrix"]
Why do designers charge more for their clothes?
Why do they charge for bottled water?
Why does Sony make expensive TV sets?
Why does Apple charge what they charge for their macs?
It's business. You don't like the price you go somewhere else. You aren't always going to like what someone charges for their goods. There's no sense being immature about it.
heretrix
Its hard to ignore this issue when Im seeing so many fellow gamers blindly being ripped off. Theres nothing immature about trying to convince others to spend their money in a smarter way. Whats immature is saying "Its business".
Who are you to determine what's "smarter" for people?Im just a consumer who knows paying money for something free isnt smart. How about that?
You have the option to not deal with that BS. You can whine about getting ripped off but how is that possible if you are not buying it? The fact that there are other options available even's it all out.[QUOTE="heretrix"]
[QUOTE="Keiji993"]
Business = getting ripped off?
You have to have XBL Gold to have full access for the rest of the game, which has probably the most replay value.
They need to include online on XBL Silver and its almost 2011 and every other gaming system has free online gaming.
This is your logic: "I just bought a box of pizza but i have to pay per slice" < That's proper business right?
Keiji993
You have just proven you don't know a damn thing about my logic. My logic is "I don't like it I won't spend my cash on it" You can charge me 100 dollars a minute for internet access, as it is your right to charge whatever you want for your product, but i sure as hell ain't gonna buy it. But I'm not gonna cry about it either. I'll just laugh in your face and tell you to go to hell.
For example, I know lots of people who spend upwards to 80 bucks for a designer T-shirt. Are you telling me that just because there are cheaper T-shirts out there that the designer doesn't have a right to sell their shirts and that they should be cheaper because you might want one?
That's incredibly silly. Just don't buy the shirt.
Alright so you dont think they should include the rest of the game for XBL Silver?
Doesn't make alot of sense to charge for online modes while anyone else gets it for free.
Its like your paying for scholarships that everyone else around you is getting for free. Doesn't make sense now does it?
While the one paying is going to Harvard and the others aren't.Who are you to determine what's "smarter" for people?[QUOTE="heretrix"]
[QUOTE="erglesmergle"]
Its hard to ignore this issue when Im seeing so many fellow gamers blindly being ripped off. Theres nothing immature about trying to convince others to spend their money in a smarter way. Whats immature is saying "Its business".
erglesmergle
Im just a consumer who knows paying money for something free isnt smart. How about that?
XBL isn't free, and it never was. So how is anyone paying for something that was free? PSN is not XBL. They are two different things.Not knowing when to mind your business and let other people learn from their "mistakes"-Not smart.
Not realizing that what may not be of value to you may be of value to someone else-Not smart
These things show me you are not in any way an authority on what is "smart".
I completely understand people's opposition to XBL, but you cannot determine that it is dumb for someone to want to subscribe to the service because they see value in it and you don't. You aren't doing yourself any favors thinking like that. Like I said, it's immature.
Live and let live.
Both answers above are correct. I wish I could have clicked them both. Microsoft uses the money to expand the server and provide a LOT more content then what PSN or Steam has to offer. Does STEAM have movies, Netflix, Facebook, Tweeter, FM.com, a GameRoom, Demos for every XBLA game and all the hottest new titles?. Does it do acheivements and keep track of leaderboards and stats for most of their games? PSN is getting there, but it still doesn't have the huge amount of content that XBL has. Soon, you won't even need a controller to navigate it.[QUOTE="XanderZane"][QUOTE="erglesmergle"]
The poll got glitched yesterday so I made a new one. Is XBL $50 (soon to be $60) material or just a way for MS to cash in.
erglesmergle
Did we ask for those features? Do we even care about those features? We get all that stuff free on the PC. Do you know how many people would rather have free online access and the other USELESS XBL features optional?
if it had no feature than it wouldnt be a service, it would just be a app. not everything is free on the PC, and as time goes on less and less things are becoming free. Steam is a App compared to Xbox Live. the features are there because you pay for it, and more features is what people want, its why facebook and twitter are on PSN and XboxLive. stop comparing PC to consoles for Online. PC has different ways to get revenue. If I buy a Magazine why is there soo many ADs?
Who are you to determine what's "smarter" for people?[QUOTE="heretrix"]
[QUOTE="erglesmergle"]
Its hard to ignore this issue when Im seeing so many fellow gamers blindly being ripped off. Theres nothing immature about trying to convince others to spend their money in a smarter way. Whats immature is saying "Its business".
erglesmergle
Im just a consumer who knows paying money for something free isnt smart. How about that?
PC online gaming wouldnt survive without gamers paying to maintain servers and helping keep mods alive. I guess you believe that Garrys Mod should be free?
The only thing that I'm really annoyed off about in this whole thing is MS's stubbornness to adjust to what's happening in the market and it's going to gut their silly asses. And they freakin deserve it.heretrix
Amen MS is doing it all wrong. If PSN is undercutting your prices, you lower to match... not raise. They have their userbase locked in pretty good this gen.. but when next gen comes around and PSN is free, and MS is charging 60 or 70 bucks or something ridiculous... that is going to lose them ALOT of business. When this gen rolled around PS3 didnt have much to speak of in the way of online, and chargin 50 bones was perfectly acceptable. Next gen, people are gonna know to factor in online fees.
The only way i can think MS raising the price is even remotely good business sense is if they use all these xbox live revenues to SEVERELY undercut Sony on hardware prices next gen. Im talking selling a $800 console for $400 or something. Kind of like a cell phone plan where they basically give you the phone, by financing it with the service contract.
Otherwise MS is shooting itself in the foot.
The poll got glitched yesterday so I made a new one. Is XBL $50 (soon to be $60) material or just a way for MS to cash in.
erglesmergle
MS thought correctly that people would pay extra to play online with their console. Notice what happened when MS tried to cash in with PC gamers, they had to make Games For Windows Live free.
[QUOTE="erglesmergle"]
[QUOTE="heretrix"]Who are you to determine what's "smarter" for people?
gamer-adam1
Im just a consumer who knows paying money for something free isnt smart. How about that?
PC online gaming wouldnt survive without gamers paying to maintain servers and helping keep mods alive. I guess you believe that Garrys Mod should be free?
And? Hosting servers cost money. P2P doesnt. People pay for servers because they want to. And what does Garrys Mod have to do with this? I would like it to be free but Valve bought it and started charging for it. I have no problem with it costing money because the modder spent time working on it, thats why I paid for it.
XBL isn't free, and it never was. So how is anyone paying for something that was free? PSN is not XBL. They are two different things.[QUOTE="heretrix"]
[QUOTE="erglesmergle"]
Im just a consumer who knows paying money for something free isnt smart. How about that?
erglesmergle
Not knowing when to mind your business and let other people learn from their "mistakes"-Not smart.
Not realizing that what may not be of value to you may be of value to someone else-Not smart
These things show me you are not in any way an authority on what is "smart".
I completely understand people's opposition to XBL, but you cannot determine that it is dumb for someone to want to subscribe to the service because they see value in it and you don't. You aren't doing yourself any favors thinking like that. Like I said, it's immature.
Live and let live.
Are you really going to argue that people pay for XBL because they want to? Or that its a great value to some? Probably a very small minority, but most people pay for XBL because they have no choice. MS has taken away a feature (online play) that is supposed to be free and included it into a priced package of features most people dont care about. You know this. I dont know why youre even bothering to make an argument. Political correctness?
You know whats not smart? Ignoring an issue like this. If everyone just ignored this topic of paying money to play online, then other companies like Sony and Nintendo will adopt it and we'd all be screwed. And you know who we'd have to thank? People like you who say "mind your own business".
Youre a consumer. You need to come back to this side of the spectrum.
why would someone pay for a service if they didn't want to? knowing this subscription fee has been in place since the launch of the original xbox?XBL isn't free, and it never was. So how is anyone paying for something that was free? PSN is not XBL. They are two different things.[QUOTE="heretrix"]
[QUOTE="erglesmergle"]
Im just a consumer who knows paying money for something free isnt smart. How about that?
erglesmergle
Not knowing when to mind your business and let other people learn from their "mistakes"-Not smart.
Not realizing that what may not be of value to you may be of value to someone else-Not smart
These things show me you are not in any way an authority on what is "smart".
I completely understand people's opposition to XBL, but you cannot determine that it is dumb for someone to want to subscribe to the service because they see value in it and you don't. You aren't doing yourself any favors thinking like that. Like I said, it's immature.
Live and let live.
Are you really going to argue that people pay for XBL because they want to? Or that its a great value to some? Probably a very small minority, but most people pay for XBL because they have no choice. MS has taken away a feature (online play) that is supposed to be free and included it into a priced package of features most people dont care about. You know this. I dont know why youre even bothering to make an argument. Political correctness?
You know whats not smart? Ignoring an issue like this. If everyone just ignored this topic of paying money to play online, then other companies like Sony and Nintendo will adopt it and we'd all be screwed. And you know who we'd have to thank? People like you who say "mind your own business".
Youre a consumer. You need to come back to this side of the spectrum.
Where in the hell did I say people wanted to pay for a subscription fee? BUT- They would not pay for something they thought had no value to them. If they did then THAT would be stupid. The XBL fee is no secret. Most people know going in one day one that they need a sub for XBL gold. When that decision is made there is a conscious decision that whatever they are paying for the sub has value to them. They aren't forced into it.Your complete lack of understanding what is a pretty simple concept again proves you have no business determining what is smart.
I think it's because people will pay. The subscription fee when XBL was first introduced was probably needed just to get things up and running, but I doubt it's really needed much any more. This is just my guess though (not really educated either since I don't know the costs of maintaining the Service so my guess could be completely off).
[QUOTE="erglesmergle"][QUOTE="heretrix"] XBL isn't free, and it never was. So how is anyone paying for something that was free? PSN is not XBL. They are two different things.
Not knowing when to mind your business and let other people learn from their "mistakes"-Not smart.
Not realizing that what may not be of value to you may be of value to someone else-Not smart
These things show me you are not in any way an authority on what is "smart".
I completely understand people's opposition to XBL, but you cannot determine that it is dumb for someone to want to subscribe to the service because they see value in it and you don't. You aren't doing yourself any favors thinking like that. Like I said, it's immature.
Live and let live.
clone01
Are you really going to argue that people pay for XBL because they want to? Or that its a great value to some? Probably a very small minority, but most people pay for XBL because they have no choice. MS has taken away a feature (online play) that is supposed to be free and included it into a priced package of features most people dont care about. You know this. I dont know why youre even bothering to make an argument. Political correctness?
You know whats not smart? Ignoring an issue like this. If everyone just ignored this topic of paying money to play online, then other companies like Sony and Nintendo will adopt it and we'd all be screwed. And you know who we'd have to thank? People like you who say "mind your own business".
Youre a consumer. You need to come back to this side of the spectrum.
why would someone pay for a service if they didn't want to? knowing this subscription fee has been in place since the launch of the original xbox?Because the PS3 had a late and bad launch. The early 360 owners didnt have the other free online alternative. Everyones friend and their dog had a 360 so the later 360 owners just bit the bullet and got the 360 so they could play with everyone else. Thats a logical explanation for why people would pay money to play their games online when no other system requires it.
Want me to create a poll to prove my point? "Would you pay for XBL if online play was already free?" If XBL was such a great deal, then PSN+/PSN ratio should look quite different than it does now. And any success of PSN+ is likely due to the freebies that Sony has thrown in like free monthly games. If XBL is such a great deal, then why hasnt the majority of the whatever million PS3 owners purchased a PSN+ membership?
Steam is a perfect example of why XBL is a ripoff. It's a better platform than XBL and it's free.RotaryRX7it is not a better platform as it doesn't support video chat or party chats, voice chat is sub par, ect, but I will agree that it is the answer to why Microsoft should go free. The ironic thing is, steam was what Xbox Live spawned from seeing as valve pitched the idea to Microsoft and they declined it only to integrate an enhanced version of what was pitched.
no not really...this isn't food or water we are talking about. its a luxury item. i know plenty of people (many of them my ps3 friends) that waited for sony because they refused to pay the live fee.[QUOTE="clone01"]Because the PS3 had a late and bad launch. The early 360 owners didnt have the other free online alternative. Everyones friend and their dog had a 360 so the later 360 owners just bit the bullet and got the 360 so they could play with everyone else. Thats a logical explanation for why people would pay money to play their games online when no other system requires it.
Want me to create a poll to prove my point? "Would you pay for XBL if online play was already free?" If XBL was such a great deal, then PSN+/PSN ratio should look quite different than it does now. And any success of PSN+ is likely due to the freebies that Sony has thrown in like free monthly games. If XBL is such a great deal, then why hasnt the majority of the whatever million PS3 owners purchased a PSN+ membership?
erglesmergle
if it had no feature than it wouldnt be a service, it would just be a app. not everything is free on the PC, and as time goes on less and less things are becoming free. Steam is a App compared to Xbox Live. the features are there because you pay for it, and more features is what people want, its why facebook and twitter are on PSN and XboxLive. stop comparing PC to consoles for Online. PC has different ways to get revenue. If I buy a Magazine why is there soo many ADs?
gamer-adam1
Steam is a service even if it does not offer Last.fm, Netflix or anything else that was suggested. There are so many options available for the PC for finding games, I can think of at least 5 ways to find gamers to play online and not one of them require a subscription to. The only payment I make to play online is for my connection to my ISP. I don't have to pay to play GR online (the only game I do play online right now, but that will change when a game I am waiting for is released), I can host the server myself if needed.
If I want to enjoy anything you mentioned, I would use them on my PC instead of a console with a TV. Heck, I have no need for a console as I have 3 DVD players (OK, one is actually a DVD recorder, but it still plays DVDs). I have 3 different 5.1 speaker systems connected to everything (2 TVs and my PC). Why would I listen to music over the TV through a console? Why would anyone want to?
The true irony about this is console gamers all say the same thing, a console is for playing games, well guess what, when you start using Facebook, Twitter, Netflix or any of the other programs previously listed, it is no longer just for games but a multiuse platform. It's just a closed mulituse platform that you do not have any control over as to what programs are usable, you are stuck with what the manufacturer decides them to be.
[QUOTE="erglesmergle"]
[QUOTE="heretrix"] XBL isn't free, and it never was. So how is anyone paying for something that was free? PSN is not XBL. They are two different things.
Not knowing when to mind your business and let other people learn from their "mistakes"-Not smart.
Not realizing that what may not be of value to you may be of value to someone else-Not smart
These things show me you are not in any way an authority on what is "smart".
I completely understand people's opposition to XBL, but you cannot determine that it is dumb for someone to want to subscribe to the service because they see value in it and you don't. You aren't doing yourself any favors thinking like that. Like I said, it's immature.
Live and let live.
heretrix
Are you really going to argue that people pay for XBL because they want to? Or that its a great value to some? Probably a very small minority, but most people pay for XBL because they have no choice. MS has taken away a feature (online play) that is supposed to be free and included it into a priced package of features most people dont care about. You know this. I dont know why youre even bothering to make an argument. Political correctness?
You know whats not smart? Ignoring an issue like this. If everyone just ignored this topic of paying money to play online, then other companies like Sony and Nintendo will adopt it and we'd all be screwed. And you know who we'd have to thank? People like you who say "mind your own business".
Youre a consumer. You need to come back to this side of the spectrum.
Where in the hell did I say people wanted to pay for a subscription fee? BUT- They would not pay for something they thought had no value to them. If they did then THAT would be stupid. The XBL fee is no secret. Most people know going in one day one that they need a sub for XBL gold. When that decision is made there is a conscious decision that whatever they are paying for the sub has value to them. They aren't forced into it.Your complete lack of understanding what is a pretty simple concept again proves you have no business determining what is smart.
when i bought my xbox back in 2006 i had no plans to use it online. All my online gaming i did on my PC. I bought it for local play, and console exclusives (like i did for all consoles beforehand). I was talked into buying a gold subscription by a friend down the line. Since then ive been hooked on console gaming.
Next gen when the PS4 offers a competitive and free online service at launch... im gonna be factoring that 60+ bucks a year into the equation real hard when deciding which console to buy. Realize this is the first gen alot of console gamers have ever played a console game online, and the first gen when online modes are actually considered a must by devs.
The first couple years i have a feeling alot of 360 owners didnt even give online play a 2nd thought when planning their purchase.
[QUOTE="RotaryRX7"]Steam is a perfect example of why XBL is a ripoff. It's a better platform than XBL and it's free.gamer620it is not a better platform as it doesn't support video chat or party chats, voice chat is sub par, ect, but I will agree that it is the answer to why Microsoft should go free. The ironic thing is, steam was what Xbox Live spawned from seeing as valve pitched the idea to Microsoft and they declined it only to integrate an enhanced version of what was pitched.
Steam might not have video chat, but other software does. Beside, when I am playing games, I don't want to be interrupted with people chatting with me with video chat at the least.
Because they know people will pay and they can get away with the increasing the price. Why stop there? Keep upping it Microsoft. Experiment. For the record I and many others pay not because we want to but because we quite simply have to, to get anything worth while out of this console. XBOX360 is mediocre as an offline gaming console.
[QUOTE="erglesmergle"]
[QUOTE="heretrix"] XBL isn't free, and it never was. So how is anyone paying for something that was free? PSN is not XBL. They are two different things.
Not knowing when to mind your business and let other people learn from their "mistakes"-Not smart.
Not realizing that what may not be of value to you may be of value to someone else-Not smart
These things show me you are not in any way an authority on what is "smart".
I completely understand people's opposition to XBL, but you cannot determine that it is dumb for someone to want to subscribe to the service because they see value in it and you don't. You aren't doing yourself any favors thinking like that. Like I said, it's immature.
Live and let live.
heretrix
Are you really going to argue that people pay for XBL because they want to? Or that its a great value to some? Probably a very small minority, but most people pay for XBL because they have no choice. MS has taken away a feature (online play) that is supposed to be free and included it into a priced package of features most people dont care about. You know this. I dont know why youre even bothering to make an argument. Political correctness?
You know whats not smart? Ignoring an issue like this. If everyone just ignored this topic of paying money to play online, then other companies like Sony and Nintendo will adopt it and we'd all be screwed. And you know who we'd have to thank? People like you who say "mind your own business".
Youre a consumer. You need to come back to this side of the spectrum.
Where in the hell did I say people wanted to pay for a subscription fee? BUT- They would not pay for something they thought had no value to them. If they did then THAT would be stupid. The XBL fee is no secret. Most people know going in one day one that they need a sub for XBL gold. When that decision is made there is a conscious decision that whatever they are paying for the sub has value to them. They aren't forced into it.Your complete lack of understanding what is a pretty simple concept again proves you have no business determining what is smart.
You just said it. People wont pay for something unless it has value. They pay for XBL because they see value in it, in other words, they want to pay for it. Its commonly accepted that most 360 owners have a 360 because their friends had one. They only made that conscious decision to go that route because they wanted to play online with their friends, not to access Facebook, Twitter, Netflix on their TV.
No matter what you think of it, IT IS SMART. As long as they get more money, they win.
Because XBL is a service and Microsoft can charge for it if they want to, and people consider the service/expirience good enough to spend the money.
And if they consider its a ripoff they just don't spend it. At least thats what I think.
pary chat alone is worth the money for me. heck, i've played demon's souls online with a friend using party chat.I can pretty much guarentee barely anyone would purchase Xbox Live Gold if online play was apart of Xbox Live Silver. Thats pretty much all anyone ever cared for out of xbox live. The rest is just candy floss.
Dahaka-UK
[QUOTE="gamer-adam1"]
[QUOTE="erglesmergle"]
Im just a consumer who knows paying money for something free isnt smart. How about that?
erglesmergle
PC online gaming wouldnt survive without gamers paying to maintain servers and helping keep mods alive. I guess you believe that Garrys Mod should be free?
And? Hosting servers cost money. P2P doesnt. People pay for servers because they want to. And what does Garrys Mod have to do with this? I would like it to be free but Valve bought it and started charging for it. I have no problem with it costing money because the modder spent time working on it, thats why I paid for it.
everything on Live goes through a Live server, there are games that are not P2P. All your information is kept on a server. Garry Mod is a MOD, which is bragged about being something free, so I think it should be free because there are other mods that are free. So you are fine with buying Garry's Mod because someone put effort into it, but when a company puts ALOT of effort into something, than they shoudlnt charge? lets ignore all the people that worked on xbox live. MS didnt just slap together a online service, like Sony did.
[QUOTE="gamer-adam1"]
if it had no feature than it wouldnt be a service, it would just be a app. not everything is free on the PC, and as time goes on less and less things are becoming free. Steam is a App compared to Xbox Live. the features are there because you pay for it, and more features is what people want, its why facebook and twitter are on PSN and XboxLive. stop comparing PC to consoles for Online. PC has different ways to get revenue. If I buy a Magazine why is there soo many ADs?
WhiteKnight77
Steam is a service even if it does not offer Last.fm, Netflix or anything else that was suggested. There are so many options available for the PC for finding games, I can think of at least 5 ways to find gamers to play online and not one of them require a subscription to. The only payment I make to play online is for my connection to my ISP. I don't have to pay to play GR online (the only game I do play online right now, but that will change when a game I am waiting for is released), I can host the server myself if needed.
If I want to enjoy anything you mentioned, I would use them on my PC instead of a console with a TV. Heck, I have no need for a console as I have 3 DVD players (OK, one is actually a DVD recorder, but it still plays DVDs). I have 3 different 5.1 speaker systems connected to everything (2 TVs and my PC). Why would I listen to music over the TV through a console? Why would anyone want to?
The true irony about this is console gamers all say the same thing, a console is for playing games, well guess what, when you start using Facebook, Twitter, Netflix or any of the other programs previously listed, it is no longer just for games but a multiuse platform. It's just a closed mulituse platform that you do not have any control over as to what programs are usable, you are stuck with what the manufacturer decides them to be.
Steam is not the same kind of service as Xbox Live. they don't need to charge for online gaming because people are paying for the servers. and Xbox Live has had dedicated servers, MS just doesnt enforce it.
Its a known fact that today, people want devices that do more than 1 thing, the people want "apps" so MS gives it to them. not everyone has there PC right next to there TV, whats wrong with listening to music over a home theatre system? the music doesnt go through your tv.
Console was made for playing games, BUT as I said before people want more options, its why Bluray players in the states can have Netflix on it, and tvs have Apps. Last gen it would be true that consoles were for playing games, and now they are more than that, and its just going to change more, will it all be free probably not
Because they can and they know people will pay for it.
Not at all I am saying a business model that is smart is something that has evolved from something so dated and cumbersome. [QUOTE="The_RedLion"] Not it does not. Two business moves can be smart. One being smarter does not stop the other from being smart, too. The argument of "it's not smart because I think Valve's smarter" is way too forced to be valid.You can call it smart as much as you like, I wont be convinced such it is; everything I know points otherwise. As I said, Valve's model is smart, Microsoft's certainly isn't. Considering and have been out of touch in numerous instances it is unsurprising really.Are you saying smart = honest successful business model? Because honest does not always equal smart.
erglesmergle
[QUOTE="sky_rend"]It's just a testament to the xbox fanbase when MS tried to pull the same crap on PC and failed while they try it on xbox and succeeded massively.Anjunaddict
Its nothing to do with the xbox fanbase. If Sony had've pulled the same thing, the playstation fanbase would have payed up too. The only reason it failed on the PC is because its an open platform. There are plenty of free alternatives.
Isn't that something you factor in when you're buying a console/PC? Guess why I went with a PC instead.
Its a bit of both
[QUOTE="Anjunaddict"][QUOTE="sky_rend"]It's just a testament to the xbox fanbase when MS tried to pull the same crap on PC and failed while they try it on xbox and succeeded massively.sky_rend
Its nothing to do with the xbox fanbase. If Sony had've pulled the same thing, the playstation fanbase would have payed up too. The only reason it failed on the PC is because its an open platform. There are plenty of free alternatives.
Isn't that something you factor in when you're buying a console/PC? Guess why I went with a PC instead.Yeah exactly.
Isn't that something you factor in when you're buying a console/PC? Guess why I went with a PC instead.[QUOTE="sky_rend"][QUOTE="Anjunaddict"]
Its nothing to do with the xbox fanbase. If Sony had've pulled the same thing, the playstation fanbase would have payed up too. The only reason it failed on the PC is because its an open platform. There are plenty of free alternatives.
Anjunaddict
Yeah exactly.
what no its not, not at all, PC is NOT in compentition with Consoles, that only happens on System wars.
Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment