Why Do You People Line Up to Apologize for Bethesda?

So I was looking at IGN (I know, I know, big mistake) and I saw this:

It's essentially some of the IGN guys debating why certain develops (Bethesda, because get real, nobody else gets a free pass for this) gets a free pass for releasing really buggy games that (in the case of Fallout 4) have game-breaking issues.

Bethesda is literally the only company that gets a free pass for this in this day and age, and yet people line up to apologize for them.

And since coming back to this forum today, I've seen a lot of this, I've seen it other places, too.

The fat guy on the left in the video is the prime example of a Bethesda apologist.

People saying, "Oh, but wait for the patches," or "Oh, it's not a big deal," or "Oh, wait 'till the mod community fixes it."

I'm sorry, but in this day and age, this immunity that Bethesda has is fucking pathetic.

Any other studio would be crucified for this.

Assassin's Creed Unity is a broken, buggy mess? "Ubisoft sucks. Kill everyone at Ubisoft Montreal!"

Never mind that that game was developed in a year by like six studios and rushed out the door.

Fallout: New Vegas is stupidly broken at launch? "**** Obsidian. Bethesda should have made this. How do you not QA test your shit?"

Nevermind that Obsidian got fucked on that publishing agreement by Bethesda.

Batman: Arkham Knight's PC version is horrendous? "**** Warner Bros. **** Rocksteady. DRIVE DOWN THEIR USER SCORE!" The game got pulled from Steam, for ****'s sake.

But if Bethesda, who has been releasing ugly, buggy, broken, badly-written games that play poorly for more than a decade does it again?

"It's fine, man. Why do you hate Bethesda? The modders will fix it. It'll get patched."

All it fucking takes is the Bethesda logo on the box and you people will throw your principles (games should work at launch, games should be complete at launch, games shouldn't need patches day 1) out the fucking window and go out of your way to apologize for a studio THAT HAS AS MUCH TIME AND MONEY AS IT WANTS TO DEVELOP VIDEO GAMES.

Think about that for a second.

"But DL," you'll say, "their games are so big and ambitious, and no one else does that."

Um... do you people live in the real world?

Metal Gear Solid V came out this year. Plays amazing. Has a huge world that you can do a ton of shit in. Runs nearly flawlessly.

Ditto for The Witcher 3, which has been made a BETTER game than when it released.

Ditto for Grand Theft Auto V. The list goes on and on and on, because pretty much every game these days is huge. And almost all of them look better, play better, and are less buggy than Bethesda's games.

And you KNOW that if any of those games I listed, or if any of the countless other open world games released in recent memory ran as badly as Fallout 4, those developers would be taken to task by critics and forum posters like there was no tomorrow.

But Bethesda? They're immune.

So, why? Why is it okay for this company to not live in 2015? Why is it okay for them to be worse than their contemporaries in nearly every fashion? Why is it okay for them, and only them, to release broken crap?

How about we hold them to the standards of the 21st century, like every other studio? Or this that too much too ask?

TL;DR Bethesda release broken trash and it's magically okay, while other developers get taken apart for it. Why is this okay? Why do people line up to apologize for broken mediocrity?

Yep. And around here, it's typically the same bros who shit on actual good games, that turn around and shill for Bethesda. Personally, I find it entertaining.

We do?

The Fallout 4 thread was full of negativity. Even after the game launched. The apologists couldnt defend the game with anything more than emotional and subjective arguments. "It's fun". Dismissing the far more objective arguments of the naysayers.

Yup, it's absolutely sickening.

@ConanTheStoner: It's hilarious, man. And it's fucking pathetic. Every studio wishes it could release beta tests for $60 and line up to have people not only praise them for it, but volunteer to fix it for them.

I don't get it either. Surprise!!!! Bethesda is also nominated for Developer of the Year, which is a joke.

Shows that you can't trust the media sometimes.

@Maroxad: Come on, man. We go back far enough that you should know this isn't directed at you.

It's a joke, man. A fucking joke. It's insulting to developers who actually took the time to make finished products.

I'm not doing it this time- in the past I have been willing to let a lot of issues with Bethesda games slide, because they were, frankly, the only ones who bothered doing what they were doing, and they were also very good at it. I would take a buggy game if it was as good as Skyrim was.

Unfortunately for Bethesda, Skyrim's success has spawned a whole host of other developers trying to join the brigade- and now we have a whole lot of other games on the market attempting to do the same thing, one of which is actually better than anything Bethesda has ever done. So I'm sorry to all Bethesda apologists, but when CD Projekt RED (a far smaller developer) released The Witcher 3 earlier this year, a game that looked better, had a bigger world, and somehow launched with less bugs (not to mention all the non technical aspects of the game, such as quests, writing, and world building, which far exceed whatever Bethesda can do), you know Bethesda has a problem, and that problem is complacency.

I don't begrudge Bethesda their success, and I would rather Skyrim and Fallout be the model for the industry than Call of Duty or Assassin's Creed, but I can categorically say that they are no longer the top game in town- they have been completely outclassed.

If they weren't so damn fun, i'd probably happily pass them by because of the bugs. I have no idea why they get a free pass for them, as well as using some of the most outdated shit i've seen outside of small indie devs.

I'm sorry, i'll be a fair grump.

All games this year are buggi trash, no matter if it's for hours or seconds.

i don't

Every Nintendo game this year runs flawlessly, as always. So does MGSV. So does Legacy of the Void. Tomb Raider runs extremely well. I can keep going, man.

Look Bethesda is alright ok, they're the friend who draws a lot but isn't really good at it and you don't want to hurt their feelings.

Now Playing: PC- TW3, F A L O U T 4 the masterpiece of our century. PS4- Nothing. PC - GTX970 Strix, 2500k@4.4, 8gb ripjaws.

Uh huh.

Taking things with a grain of salt. Context. Strengths > weaknesses. Etc, etc...

That's why Bethesda gets a "free" pass.

A grand undertaking like Fallout 4, The Witcher 3, MGS V will have some bugs because of the sheer scope of the game. Conversely, a borderline-rail shooter like CoD should have no bugs because their game is short and linear. Basically, games like Fallout 4 are like a really fancy piece of machinery; it needs love, attention, and a bit of patience when it doesn't work right but when it does work, it is beautiful and worth any effort to get working

CoD (and other buggy, overhyped messes of games) is like a greased rock; dumb, stationary, simple, but every time you try to interact with it, it slips from your hand and lands on your foot, breaking your toes. Not worth it.

Also, Bethesda has a good history of supporting their games; I know any bugs I encounter will likely be fixed within a month or two, followed by mods! BEAUTIFUL MODS!

Oh. My. God.

He's seen the light. Finally, he's seen the light.

@mrbojangles25: Except here's the thing- even in terms of vast games, Bethesda has been outdone. The Witcher 3 and Metal Gear Solid V both launched earlier this year, both have bigger worlds, both look better, both perform better, both are simply put better games, thanks to the quality of their gameplay, writing, storytelling, voice acting, dialog, quests, and so on, and both launched with far less bugs.

What excuse does Bethesda have?

Surprisingly, I have yet to encounter a bug in Fallout 4 17 hours into it. I also have not encountered any game breaking or frustrating bugs in any Bethesda game... only amusing ones.

I'm not one to complain about bugs in general though, the only game that the bugs ever really bothered me was Unity and that's just because I kept getting stuck in buildings while climbing which was super frustrating.

Just saying, that gamers in general havent accepted this game very well. The poor reputation on /v/, NMA (Fallout Fansite), here on gamespot, NeoGAF and the poor user scores would indicate that this game hasnt been as well received as say... previous entries.

Seems like its mostly reviewers who are singing high praises. And as for the sales, at this point, I honestly feel like Bethesda games are like the Spiderman Movies. Quality be damned, people will flock to htem anyways.

PREACH, CHAZ, PREACH.

I've never understood it myself. It's a Bethesda game. We know it will be loaded with bugs when it is launched. I don't get why people would feel somehow things have changed. this time around.

Also welcome back Dark.

Bethesda lives in a vacuum sealed chamber.

really that's the only explanation for their antiquated storytelling and gameplay. They simply don't play other better games and instead only gather inspiration from their own previous work.

Nah bro, this is more a case of Bethesda finally having some competition, and said competition doing Bethesda's shit better than Bethesda does. Who knows what my reaction to Skyrim (which I do however maintain is a far better designed and made game than Fallout 4 is) would have been, had a similar product as great as Witcher 3 existed back then? It did not, and Skyrim was the only game that gave me what it did.

Now that other studios are hitting the strengths Bethesda games typically hit, without imbibing their weaknesses in the process, Bethesda has no choice. They must step their game up to earn my attention.

Of course, on the other hand, their games sell 12 million day one even without them getting noticeably better (and, in the case of Fallout 4, getting worse), so I guess they really don't have any reason to.

I was fooling, why are you so defensive?

because some people love some games so much they don't care about anything else. It's really that simple.

But why has it taken like 15 years for us to get to this point?

Like, this was unacceptable in 2008.

There's nothing wrong with loving whatever game you choose to love, the question here is not one of taste, but of consistency. Why do these people who love Bethesda games so much turn around and criticize Assassin's Creed, Halo, Obsidian's stuff, or really, any other major game with a buggy launch, so readily at the drop of the hat? Why the double standards? Why is Bethesda accorded this immunity, this special protection?

Yeah, it's crazy. The shilling gamers don't really bug me though. What does bug me are the review scores. And not in some "waaahhhh, they scored it higher that I think it deserves!!!" kind of way. I don't give a shit about that aspect. It's just that if these reviewers would actually knock the scores down to reality a bit, Bethesda might actually feel compelled to improve as it would potentially cut into their bottom line.

I want to enjoy Bethesda games because they do have some cool shit here and there. But they'll never improve if they get showered with praise and sales with every turd they drop. I mean shit, why would they? Why put in the extra work if a free pass is pretty much guaranteed?

FALSE.

In 180 hours of play, I ran into a single sound bug that lasted almost two minutes! Terribly incomplete mess of a game I tell ya.

lol

@Ant_17: Not defensive. Just stating facts.

They get a pass because the sheer amount of content their open worlds have and all the randomness that creates. That's why I don't expect a bug free game but I guess there are some bugs in recent games that probably should have been fixed before launch.

WILL THE ONES WHO CALL BETHESDA GETTING FREE PASSES PLEASE POINT OUT ALL THE PROBLEMS BETHESDA GAMES HAVE AND NOT BITCH ABOUT HOW PEOPLE DON'T COMPLAIN ABOUT THE GAME?

Seriously at least with Assassin's Creed, Batman, Witcher, etc We have people that lay waste to the dev's glitches and give them hell.

NONE OF THESE CLOWNS point out Fallout 4's beefs making me believe there's actually NO BEEF with the game. As in everyone is PERFECTLY FINE with the Game as is.

With Fallout New Vegas most people tore open Obsidian a new one to the point they almost died.

With Fallout 4. Perfectly fine, I found no Game Breaking Glitches or Frame Dips or anything particularly wrong with the game as reported by everyone.

BUT CLEARLY there's something WRONG with the game. So how about instead of posting random IGN no bodies, how about posting Videos of some HORRIBLE bug or Game Save Glitches going wrong or Posting Forum Posts about how UNOPTIMIZED the game is.

What? No one is reporting how Bad the Game is Performing? You mean people are playing the Game without Issues???

Minecraft does the same thing, and it has less bugs to boot.

Content? The Witcher and MGSV did the same thing, and they launched with far less bugs (no bugs, in MGSV's case, if I am given to understand things correctly).

This excuse held true in 2011 when Skyrim launched. It does not hold true today. The game has changed, others are doing games of this size and ambition with alarming regularity, and they are doing them better.

I don't give anybody a free pass. I will buy the game when it is fixed down the road and for a much cheaper price. Until then, it is not worth my time or money.

@LegatoSkyheart said:

WILL THE ONES WHO CALL BETHESDA GETTING FREE PASSES PLEASE POINT OUT ALL THE PROBLEMS BETHESDA GAMES HAVE AND NOT BITCH ABOUT HOW PEOPLE DON'T COMPLAIN ABOUT THE GAME?

Seriously at least with Assassin's Creed, Batman, Witcher, etc We have people that lay waste to the dev's glitches and give them hell.

NONE OF THESE CLOWNS point out Fallout 4's beefs making me believe there's actually NO BEEF with the game. As in everyone is PERFECTLY FINE with the Game as is.

With Fallout New Vegas most people tore open Obsidian a new one to the point they almost died.

With Fallout 4. Perfectly fine, I found no Game Breaking Glitches or Frame Dips or anything particularly wrong with the game as reported by everyone.

BUT CLEARLY there's something WRONG with the game. So how about instead of posting random IGN no bodies, how about posting Videos of some HORRIBLE bug or Game Save Glitches going wrong or Posting Forum Posts about how UNOPTIMIZED the game is.

What? No one is reporting how Bad the Game is Performing? You mean people are playing the Game without Issues???

I had to load a previous save because I got stuck on a table before you get the power armor for the deathclaw fight.

I also had to deal with cut off dialogue quite a bit, every so often people just stop talking yet their mouth is moving.

The issue isn't entirely with bugs here however, the gameplay simply hasn't evolved, the storytelling is trash and the new simplified conversation system is a complete joke.

To be fair to Charizard. He is still pretty much exclusively a console gamer. How could he have known?

Bethesda has been outclassed by smaller, more talented devs for years now. Difference now, is that this difference in quality is even appereant to console gamers, with titles like Witcher 3 cropping up on consoles.

Blizzard Entertainment managed to release a open world RPG back in 2004, that no Bethesda game has ever been able to even scratch, in terms of quality. Even now, 11 years later. Even now, Bethesda's game,

• Has less content
• Lower quality of content
• Worse technology
• More bugs
• Less balance
• Less Replay Value
• Worse writing
• Less Interesting world

than Blizzard's 2004 Open World RPG.

@LegatoSkyheart said:

WILL THE ONES WHO CALL BETHESDA GETTING FREE PASSES PLEASE POINT OUT ALL THE PROBLEMS BETHESDA GAMES HAVE AND NOT BITCH ABOUT HOW PEOPLE DON'T COMPLAIN ABOUT THE GAME?

Seriously at least with Assassin's Creed, Batman, Witcher, etc We have people that lay waste to the dev's glitches and give them hell.

NONE OF THESE CLOWNS point out Fallout 4's beefs making me believe there's actually NO BEEF with the game. As in everyone is PERFECTLY FINE with the Game as is.

With Fallout New Vegas most people tore open Obsidian a new one to the point they almost died.

With Fallout 4. Perfectly fine, I found no Game Breaking Glitches or Frame Dips or anything particularly wrong with the game as reported by everyone.

BUT CLEARLY there's something WRONG with the game. So how about instead of posting random IGN no bodies, how about posting Videos of some HORRIBLE bug or Game Save Glitches going wrong or Posting Forum Posts about how UNOPTIMIZED the game is.

What? No one is reporting how Bad the Game is Performing? You mean people are playing the Game without Issues???

Okay, I can do this, but fair warning, my issues aren't just to do with bugs and shit, they rip the entire thing a new one.

Here we go:

• The writing is terrible, it's positively juvenile. I'm not asking for Witcher/Persona level of writing here, just give me something that doesn't remind me of an essay I wrote in fourth grade
• The quests are banal and trite with no variation
• The leveling system has been simplified and streamlined beyond recognition, at this point, Call of Duty's leveling system might have more nuance than Fallout's
• The story is shit. Everything is rushed, there is no development, and no gravity attached to anything that is happening in the game
• The combat is terrible. I cannot believe this is getting a free pass, but it has no business being as bad as it is. No, using VATS does not help
• The game looks like utter shit. It's like a slightly uprezzed PS3 game, and the lack of textures, the terrible animations, and the framerate drops are maddening
• The game's performance is inexcusable, especially given how bad the game looks
• The game has so many bugs- stutters, long loading times, lack of voice synching, characters disappearing without warning, save file bugs, and more
• The dialog is trash
• The voice acting is trash
• The dialog system, while good in theory, trivializes itself by presenting four barely different choices each time around

There is only one thing I will give Fallout 4 credit for, and that is its great crafting system. That's it. In every other way, it is thoroughly average. Not bad, just average.

My problem with Bethesda games is that they are RPGs without role-playing mechanics. Sure, you get the dialogue, false choices, and stat system that come with most RPGs, but the games are so action-y that only a couple of the stats really end up mattering. To top it all off, they create enormous worlds that can be completed at the user's will, which necessitates things like enemy level scaling and missions that can't be designed around your abilities, because the developer has no idea at what point in the game you are going to do the mission. It's an incredibly watered down experience in the end that is a ton of fun for a few hours, but not really worth completing.

There is nothing to apologize for. The game looks, runs and plays great for me.

@LegatoSkyheart said:

WILL THE ONES WHO CALL BETHESDA GETTING FREE PASSES PLEASE POINT OUT ALL THE PROBLEMS BETHESDA GAMES HAVE AND NOT BITCH ABOUT HOW PEOPLE DON'T COMPLAIN ABOUT THE GAME?

Seriously at least with Assassin's Creed, Batman, Witcher, etc We have people that lay waste to the dev's glitches and give them hell.

NONE OF THESE CLOWNS point out Fallout 4's beefs making me believe there's actually NO BEEF with the game. As in everyone is PERFECTLY FINE with the Game as is.

With Fallout New Vegas most people tore open Obsidian a new one to the point they almost died.

With Fallout 4. Perfectly fine, I found no Game Breaking Glitches or Frame Dips or anything particularly wrong with the game as reported by everyone.

BUT CLEARLY there's something WRONG with the game. So how about instead of posting random IGN no bodies, how about posting Videos of some HORRIBLE bug or Game Save Glitches going wrong or Posting Forum Posts about how UNOPTIMIZED the game is.

What? No one is reporting how Bad the Game is Performing? You mean people are playing the Game without Issues???

Such anger, young Skywalker.

The problems? I mean, aside from Dogmeat randomly flying into the air, people getting stuck in the environment, the gamebreaking bugs where people get stuck in elevators and terminals, the fact that it looks like moldy ass warmed over, has shit writing, that the sales dud carried his clipboard like a shield from Skyrim, etc?

Because when freedom of speech is impaired, stupidity thrives.

Seriously, back then, legimate criticism of Bethesda's games was sometimes dismissed and moderated as trolling in some places of the internet. Now that Bethesda games are freely scrutinized. Bethesda pretty much lost their free pass. The truth can no longer be silenced.

@coasterguy65: Thanks, man. Good to be back.

I REALLY wish you were the OP than the actual OP cause I can accept this criticism.

But the only thing I will defend is Bethesda Games and Story? LOL you never play these games for the Story. It's the Side Quests you play it for and the World which sadly from what I've seen isn't exactly something you'd praise Fallout 4 for. Although that's just from first impressions on MY book. Have yet to actually play the game.

Other than that okay with your post.

The game looks great? I am sorry, what? You're the people who gladly called Halo 5 out on its apparently poor graphics, but Fallout 4 looks great?

Lol, okay

I mean, I did address some of that (bad writing, looks ugly, buggy), but that wasn't the point of the thread. You can find the problems with a simple Google search.

Also, hai Legato. Good to see you again.

Is cool man. But I just see more Bitching about how people defend the game than People actually Posting the Legit Problems of this game and I'm sick of it.

Like Make people who don't have the game more aware of the Legit Garbage the Game has than just Complain that no one is doing it. That fixes no problems.

Good to see ya DarkLink.

I mean, Blizzard is one of the all-time greats, man. Comparing them to Bethesda is just unfair to Bethesda.

But yeah, they were outclassed years ago.

There's a terrorist attack on Paris and you cucks are arguing about a shitty fucking game.