The Witcher is the best role-playing experiance this gen.

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

It really is. The Witcher owns all.

jwsoul

No its not Fallout 3 beats the living poo out of it. In every way imaginable Fallout 3 is better, i find it surprising that people say other wise. You talk about the choices in the Witcher being in the Grey area thats far from the truth in most encounters, its actually quite blatant what your actions will result in most of the time. Honestly if you can not see how vastly superior Fallout 3 is to Witcher you need to go back and play Fallout 3 its literally a work of art. While the Witcher although excellent is limited and on tracks throughout most of the game.

Guy above me if you played on Wimpy mode known as normal no wonder you finished it in 30 hours or less.

[QUOTE="jwsoul"]

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

It really is. The Witcher owns all.

AAllxxjjnn

No its not Fallout 3 beats the living poo out of it. In every way imaginable Fallout 3 is better, i find it surprising that people say other wise. You talk about the choices in the Witcher being in the Grey area thats far from the truth in most encounters, its actually quite blatant what your actions will result in most of the time. Honestly if you can not see how vastly superior Fallout 3 is to Witcher you need to go back and play Fallout 3 its literally a work of art. While the Witcher although excellent is limited and on tracks throughout most of the game.

Guy above me if you played on Wimpy mode known as normal no wonder you finished it in 30 hours or less.

[QUOTE="AAllxxjjnn"][QUOTE="jwsoul"]

No its not Fallout 3 beats the living poo out of it. In every way imaginable Fallout 3 is better, i find it surprising that people say other wise. You talk about the choices in the Witcher being in the Grey area thats far from the truth in most encounters, its actually quite blatant what your actions will result in most of the time. Honestly if you can not see how vastly superior Fallout 3 is to Witcher you need to go back and play Fallout 3 its literally a work of art. While the Witcher although excellent is limited and on tracks throughout most of the game.

Guy above me if you played on Wimpy mode known as normal no wonder you finished it in 30 hours or less.

jwsoul

I asked you first. You're the one making the claims.

No, the best is still Fallout 3, even without the DLC.

Best RPG this gen is:

1. Fallout 3 2. The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion 3. Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess 4. Mass Effect 5. Persona 4 6. Valkyria Chronicles 7. The Witcher: Enhanced Edition 8. Fable 2 9. Tales of Vesperia 10. Disgaea 3

ihsanqueen

The only part of that list I agree with is the part where Fallout 3 is listed above Oblivion (although I probably wouldn't put any of your top 3 in my personal top 10).

In every way imaginable Fallout 3 is better, i find it surprising that people say other wise.

jwsoul

Hm...sorry, I'm trying to think of a feature that Fallout 3 does better than The Witcher, and nothing comes to mind. Care to give examples? :?
I guess Fallout 3 wins in 'exploration', but The Witcher wasn't an open-world game, so they can't really be compared in that.

[QUOTE="jwsoul"][QUOTE="AAllxxjjnn"] How is Fallout 3 a better RPG?AAllxxjjnn

I asked you first. You're the one making the claims.

Ok this is getting really annoying i have given examples above but i will do so AGAIN.

Fallout 3 is better because.

1. Your actions effect the environment and NPCs a hell of a lot more than they do in the Witcher FACT so do not argue because i have played both to death its not an opinion.

2. Greater selection of weapons including secret weapons

3. A more in depth leveling system

4. Skill actually completely and utterly effect how you can work the environment to your liking IE hacking computers or not, being particularly good with Woman, or Children, having the ability to be way more persuasive

5. Exploration

6. Sotryline/Plot is generally superb including all of the sub plots that you can manipulate

Thats some of it now enlighten me to why a game i have played 2 and until completion 2 is better than Fallout 3?

jwsoul never played The Witcher.

jwsoul never played The Witcher.

Baranga

Instead of coming in here like a little child brat why dont you actually try and counter attack my comments and tell me why you consider the Witcher better?

Oh yeah you have never played Fallout 3 have you as a matter of fact i reckon most of you here dislike Fallout 3 because it is multiplatform and the Witcher is exclusive to the PC.

[QUOTE="AAllxxjjnn"]

[QUOTE="jwsoul"] How is the WITCHER? Dont come at me with how is it the better RPG if your not going to explain why the Witcher is! Oh and i have edited my post giving some examples of why it is better and that is a fact folks you can prefer one or the other, thats fine but Fallout 3 is truly and quite blatently better. jwsoul

I asked you first. You're the one making the claims.

[QUOTE="jwsoul"][QUOTE="AAllxxjjnn"]

I asked you first. You're the one making the claims.

mr_mozilla

I actually think FO3 is better than The Witcher, but there are certain things The Witcher does much better, for e.g. the characters, there wasn't a single NPC I cared about in FO3, the characters in witcher were more fleshed out. The other is dialogue, FO3's dialogue was an improvement over Oblivion but still doesn't compete with The Witcher even if the translation is clumsy at times. 3rd would be animation which was immersion breaking in FO3. And the main campaign in FO3 was kinda short and bland tho it had its moments too. But they're very different kind of RPGs so I wouldn't spent too much time doing a pointless comparison.

Ah ha yes you have some excellent points. Actually i think you hit the nail on the head. Animation is an excellent point and general bugs in the game can ruin immersion, as for your attachment to characters hmm. Not sure what to say to that, could be due to playstlyes being evil on the game will result in your perception of NPC lives becoming of less importance because generally people within the game world will hate you so that could explain in your case why you felt a lack of attachment.

1. I felt my actions in the Witcher impacted the story to a much greater degree than in Fallout 3. The most change i saw in Fallout 3 was people avoiding me when i was bad, and bounties being put on my head. Wow so impressive. Why should i care?

2. Not really something i see as a plus when the gun play felt terrible and the VATs system made everything extremely easy. I didn't care about how my sword looked in the Witcher because i felt the combat just felt better, especially with the 3 different **** and two different swords i had to adjust to depending on what enemy i was facing. The alchemy system also added more depth to the combat.

3. I actually felt like my skills were improving with the Witcher's system, can't say the same about Fallout 3.

4. Persuading them to do what? Why would i care how persuasive i was? Its not like it really effected anything that much.

5. I'll give you that, I didn't really find Fallout's world to be that interesting.

6. The Witcher had a much better storyline to me. Fallout 3's was just utter trash.

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

It really is. The Witcher owns all.

jwsoul

No its not Fallout 3 beats the living poo out of it. In every way imaginable Fallout 3 is better, i find it surprising that people say other wise. You talk about the choices in the Witcher being in the Grey area thats far from the truth in most encounters, its actually quite blatant what your actions will result in most of the time. Honestly if you can not see how vastly superior Fallout 3 is to Witcher you need to go back and play Fallout 3 its literally a work of art. While the Witcher although excellent is limited and on tracks throughout most of the game.

Guy above me if you played on Wimpy mode known as normal no wonder you finished it in 30 hours or less.

Dragonfire why dont you inform us how lol the Witcher is better than Fallout 3? I mean really come on tell use? Anyone?

Fallout 3 is the current pinacle of RPG games and may remain so for a long time, no other game is out where your reactions to the environment and NPCs within it can affect you surroundings so much. No other RPG game allows the player to manipulate so many different parts of the environment EG, Hacking computers to get information, trigger automated turrets, control robots, start up a factory processing line. How about the FACT that you have the ability to be Good, Neutral, Evil and most if not lol all NPCs react differently to your standing within the world.

Fallout 3 you can Allie with many different factions, you can become a cannibal, slaver, Paladin of sorts, the list gose on and on.

Hell in your examples Deus Ex dominates it. Mind you this is a title from 2001....

Fallout 3 has horrible characterisation, decisions and consequences and choice - quite frankly. Its major pro, is the exploration of the environment.

Yup, this game owns.

Also, Fallout 3 is a shiet RPG with shiety writing and combat that is no less shiety than what the Witcher has to offer. The Witcher dominates it in terms of actual consequences and choice, and is only really weaker than Fallout 3 when it comes down to tediously exploring large yawn-inducing environments. Hell, I'd actually say the Witcher is more interesting to explore despite the hugely limited world because of how much more densely packed it is compared to Fallout 3's empty and unchallenging open fields of dirty grey crap. And Fallout 3's story better than The Witcher? :lol: The only thing Fallout 3 does story better than is a brick.

And in a way, the Witcher is presented far more maturely. Fallout 3, despite the "realistic" artstyle (or rather, lack of one), felt childish to me.

Hmmm, just wondering, what on earth you people did to get 48 hours on one play through... I beat the game in under 30, did pretty much all the side quests, all the sex cards ect (thats possible in 1 play though) on normal difficulty... mind boggeling, people tout it as a long game... if you play it multiple times maybe.PC360Wii

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

It really is. The Witcher owns all.

jwsoul

No its not Fallout 3 beats the living poo out of it. In every way imaginable Fallout 3 is better, i find it surprising that people say other wise. You talk about the choices in the Witcher being in the Grey area thats far from the truth in most encounters, its actually quite blatant what your actions will result in most of the time. Honestly if you can not see how vastly superior Fallout 3 is to Witcher you need to go back and play Fallout 3 its literally a work of art. While the Witcher although excellent is limited and on tracks throughout most of the game.

Guy above me if you played on Wimpy mode known as normal no wonder you finished it in 30 hours or less.

Dragonfire why dont you inform us how lol the Witcher is better than Fallout 3? I mean really come on tell use? Anyone?

Fallout 3 is the current pinacle of RPG games and may remain so for a long time, no other game is out where your reactions to the environment and NPCs within it can affect you surroundings so much. No other RPG game allows the player to manipulate so many different parts of the environment EG, Hacking computers to get information, trigger automated turrets, control robots, start up a factory processing line. How about the FACT that you have the ability to be Good, Neutral, Evil and most if not lol all NPCs react differently to your standing within the world.

Fallout 3 you can Allie with many different factions, you can become a cannibal, slaver, Paladin of sorts, the list gose on and on.

The Witcher is a great game, but just like most good PC exclusives it's overated to the moon and back. It's certainly up there with the best, but as usual you have PC gamers out right stating that it is the only real role playing game this gen, which is complete nonsense. Which reminds me of another incredibly overated RPG, Fallout, which is no where NEAR as good as people make it out to be. Yeah it's great, but no, it's not the pinacle of roleplaying games, it has some amazing flaws that people seem to conviently forget when they accuse other RPGs of exactly the same thing at the same time. It hasn't aged all that well, and I don't see any reason why I should be blown away by the atmosphere either, for a start everything looks the same and not to mention that enviroments have little detail, which in turn dosn't leave much room for an impressive atmosphere. It's dated at best . Back to the Witcher. It's more or less the same case with The Witcher. The roleplaying options are pretty good, and they took a unique approach to that, but the game it's self is pretty much linear regardless of the choices you make, save for mabye a few atlernate quests based on a few choices, and mild changes to the gameplay, something which is greatly exagerated. There arn't really many choices with real consequences anyway, mabye about 12. The game is also a technical mess in places. I've enjoyed Knights of the Old Republic 1/2 (On consoles, by the way.) more than probably all RPGs I've ever played.

I can't stand the hypocritical cynical critism PC gamers hand out though, it drives me nuts. "If it's not from before 2002, it sucks." I've gone off on a tangent though. It's just when people talk about particular games as if they are the only good ones in their genre of that generation it immediatly makes me think of PC gamers and rants about Fallout. I'll just go back to enjoying my rubish console games now.

[QUOTE="AAllxxjjnn"]

[QUOTE="jwsoul"] How is the WITCHER? Dont come at me with how is it the better RPG if your not going to explain why the Witcher is! Oh and i have edited my post giving some examples of why it is better and that is a fact folks you can prefer one or the other, thats fine but Fallout 3 is truly and quite blatently better. jwsoul

I asked you first. You're the one making the claims.

Ok this is getting really annoying i have given examples above but i will do so AGAIN.

Fallout 3 is better because.

1. Your actions effect the environment and NPCs a hell of a lot more than they do in the Witcher FACT so do not argue because i have played both to death its not an opinion.

2. Greater selection of weapons including secret weapons

3. A more in depth leveling system

4. Skill actually completely and utterly effect how you can work the environment to your liking IE hacking computers or not, being particularly good with Woman, or Children, having the ability to be way more persuasive

5. Exploration

6. Sotryline/Plot is generally superb including all of the sub plots that you can manipulate

Thats some of it now enlighten me to why a game i have played 2 and until completion 2 is better than Fallout 3?

The dialogue in the Witcher is infinitely better than Fallout 3. Fallout 3 seems like it was written by 13 year olds who think swearing is cool. None of the dialogue in Fallout 3 comes off as natural.

The raiders are the epitome of ridiculous stereotype. They hang limps up on hooks and attack you on site. They have no purpose in the world, and they never fight each other...even though they are not allied.

Combat in Fallout 3 is heavily one sided and easy because of VATS. They missed the point of the originals' turn based system. Turn based works because you take TURNS, VATS is basically a pause screen with no penalty whatsoever. Especially when you pick up the perk that allows you to regain all your action points if you kill your target. It turns the game into a gallery FPS, which is what Fallout 3 is, albeit with dialogue.

The quests were generally 'go here, kill x amount of enemies, retrieve an object and/or come back for reward'. The Witcher includes criminal investigations, faction negotiations, alchemy etc. The main quest in Fallout 3 was appauling. The story was lame and didnt really give you much reason to care about the NPC's involved (even your ****ing father). Even what the main quest in F3 surmounted to was weak. Who cares about making water clean? I'm sure most of the enemies you faced wont, and they make up half of the game world population.On the other hand the Witcher had an epic story, that was well told (in the Enhanced Edition at least, which is the only version ive played).

The exploration element in Fallout 3 is a plus, but seriously, you werent rewarded very often for it. You ended up going into regurgitated subways and maintenance tunnels, fighting ghouls (since when were the majority of ghouls crazy blood thirsty animals? oh wait, since oblivion). Even most of the Vaults were disappointing.

The game tried much to hard to be funny, thinking that the Fallout universe is all jokes and the 'bloody mess' perk. The main decision that affected Fallout 3 was megaton. If you blow it up it's gone. Even if you did this, two or three of the quests present in the town appeared in other places.

The Karma system was null and void, due to the fact you could give water to thirsty people for karma. Killed a town? Its ok, because you satisfied the thirst of 20 homeless.

Last but not least, CDProjekt understood the shortcomings of their product and released a patch that improved dialogue, gameplay and even added 2 extra stories. For free. Bethesda admitted that the ending of Fallout was a mistake, yet they are charging gamers who have already bought the game to increase the level cap and improve the ending.

I dont even understand the argument here. Fallout 3 is an average RPG at best. The Witcher is a magnificent RPG, and easily one of the best in years.

The Witcher is a great game, but just like most good PC exclusives it's overated to the moon and back. It's certainly up there with the best, but as usual you have PC gamers out right stating that it is the only real role playing game this gen, which is complete nonsense. Which reminds me of another incredibly overated RPG, Fallout, which is no where NEAR as good as people make it out to be. Yeah it's great, but no, it's not the pinacle of roleplaying games, it has some amazing flaws that people seem to conviently forget when they accuse other RPGs of exactly the same thing at the same time. It hasn't aged all that well, and I don't see any reason why I should be blown away by the atmosphere either, for a start everything looks the same and not to mention that enviroments have little detail, which in turn dosn't leave much room for an impressive atmosphere. It's dated at best . Back to the Witcher. It's more or less the same case with The Witcher. The roleplaying options are pretty good, and they took a unique approach to that, but the game it's self is pretty much linear regardless of the choices you make, save for mabye a few atlernate quests based on a few choices, and mild changes to the gameplay, something which is greatly exagerated. There arn't really many choices with real consequences anyway, mabye about 12. The game is also a technical mess in places. I've enjoyed Knights of the Old Republic 1/2 (On consoles, by the way.) more than probably all RPGs I've ever played.

I can't stand the hypocritical cynical critism PC gamers hand out though, it drives me nuts. "If it's not from before 2002, it sucks." I've gone off on a tangent though. It's just when people talk about particular games as if they are the only good ones in their genre of that generation it immediatly makes me think of PC gamers and rants about Fallout. I'll just go back to enjoying my rubish console games now.

Ek-Andy

Fallout was/is an amazingly progressive game, even by todays standards the way you effect the world, and your interaction with it is unlike any other game. Same goes with Fallout 2, which essentially expanded on the idea. There is no such thing as the greatest of X genre, however love it or hate it, its undeniable Fallout is a very important title.

Personally I only played it a few years ago, and I was admittedly astounded by how good the game was, moreso when factoring in it was released in 97'. The Witcher does indeed have linear progression in story.... however the way the story pans out, and changes is non linear, even if its fundamentally in a linear structure. The reality of most games that are story driven, is the design will always be fundamentally linear. Take it away and you will have a more sandbox role playing environment like Mount and Blade which lacks the focus on story driven core.

On the topic of consequences and decisions, compared to most role playing games, The Witcher tackles it much better than all the current crop of RPGs. Titles like Mass Effect and Fallout 3 dont really hold a candle in this respect, however they do things differently.

Anyway PC gamers are always going to be fond of these older titles, as they are benchmark role playing games of their platform, and are still playable to date, and still provide ample amounts of entertainment. Console gamers do the same about their favourite past *insert system title*, the difference is the longevity of a PC game outweighs a console one, due to the ability to playback any old title. However games like Chrono Trigger have gotten remakes, which is great to see, and services like XBL Classics are pushing older titles to the consumer - just as services like GoodOldGames on the PC make older titles available to the consumer.

However take this into account.

You dont hear PC gamers complaining about multiplat titles Morrowind or KOTOR, and titles like Oblivion, while they get hammered by certain PC gamers, it still has a huge community, and fanbase (the mods and sales alone speak volumes) as does titles like Fallout.

It really is allot less black and white as you put it in that regard.

[QUOTE="jwsoul"]

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

It really is. The Witcher owns all.

PC360Wii

No its not Fallout 3 beats the living poo out of it. In every way imaginable Fallout 3 is better, i find it surprising that people say other wise. You talk about the choices in the Witcher being in the Grey area thats far from the truth in most encounters, its actually quite blatant what your actions will result in most of the time. Honestly if you can not see how vastly superior Fallout 3 is to Witcher you need to go back and play Fallout 3 its literally a work of art. While the Witcher although excellent is limited and on tracks throughout most of the game.

Guy above me if you played on Wimpy mode known as normal no wonder you finished it in 30 hours or less.

Dragonfire why dont you inform us how lol the Witcher is better than Fallout 3? I mean really come on tell use? Anyone?

Fallout 3 is the current pinacle of RPG games and may remain so for a long time, no other game is out where your reactions to the environment and NPCs within it can affect you surroundings so much. No other RPG game allows the player to manipulate so many different parts of the environment EG, Hacking computers to get information, trigger automated turrets, control robots, start up a factory processing line. How about the FACT that you have the ability to be Good, Neutral, Evil and most if not lol all NPCs react differently to your standing within the world.

Fallout 3 you can Allie with many different factions, you can become a cannibal, slaver, Paladin of sorts, the list gose on and on.

Oh come on Fallout 3 has HUNDREDS of Grey areas not just 2 or 3 dotted over the game like the Witcher. Skrat just for your information i am quite aware of Deus Ex considering i played it on its release thanx very much.......

In a sense i can see how the Witcher story wise is much more focused and i guess in a fashion due to this it has some better Role Playing elements. None the less i still consider Fallout 3 to be vastly superior.

Honestly all i see on this thread is a bunch of Hermits touting a PC only game, its a great game i know but its not as expansive or awe inspiring as Fallout 3 or Baldurs Gate. Ek - Andy Fair play lol your comments about PC gamers is dot on mate.

Funny thing is a lot of the guys in this thread dont even look at my profile or the fact that i own more PC games than the majority of them and i am playing some of the games im referring to right now.

Honestly (cough) PC gamers in here, try out Fallout 3 instead of calling it bland and boring actually try it.

I had the same opinion then i brought it on a whim and honestly the landscape is not bland and boring and all the same, YOU would know this if you had played the game.

Bah

I'm not a pc fanboy. Ive only picked up a new pc in the last few weeks. Before that I was a 360 only gamer, because I couldnt afford to have multiple systems.

EDIT - and I purchased Fallout 3 on release day, and even went as far as buying the limited edition with the little BoS figure. Because I am sad.

[QUOTE="Ek-Andy"]

The Witcher is a great game, but just like most good PC exclusives it's overated to the moon and back. It's certainly up there with the best, but as usual you have PC gamers out right stating that it is the only real role playing game this gen, which is complete nonsense. Which reminds me of another incredibly overated RPG, Fallout, which is no where NEAR as good as people make it out to be. Yeah it's great, but no, it's not the pinacle of roleplaying games, it has some amazing flaws that people seem to conviently forget when they accuse other RPGs of exactly the same thing at the same time. It hasn't aged all that well, and I don't see any reason why I should be blown away by the atmosphere either, for a start everything looks the same and not to mention that enviroments have little detail, which in turn dosn't leave much room for an impressive atmosphere. It's dated at best . Back to the Witcher. It's more or less the same case with The Witcher. The roleplaying options are pretty good, and they took a unique approach to that, but the game it's self is pretty much linear regardless of the choices you make, save for mabye a few atlernate quests based on a few choices, and mild changes to the gameplay, something which is greatly exagerated. There arn't really many choices with real consequences anyway, mabye about 12. The game is also a technical mess in places. I've enjoyed Knights of the Old Republic 1/2 (On consoles, by the way.) more than probably all RPGs I've ever played.

I can't stand the hypocritical cynical critism PC gamers hand out though, it drives me nuts. "If it's not from before 2002, it sucks." I've gone off on a tangent though. It's just when people talk about particular games as if they are the only good ones in their genre of that generation it immediatly makes me think of PC gamers and rants about Fallout. I'll just go back to enjoying my rubish console games now.

skrat_01

The Witcher does indeed have linear progression in story.... however the way the story pans out, and changes is non linear, even if its fundementally in a linear structure. The reality of most games that are story driven, is the design will always be fundementally linear. Take it away and you will have a more sandbox role playing enviroment like Mount and Blade which lacks the focus on story driven core. On the topic of consequences and decsions, compared to most role playing games, The Witcher tackles it much better than all the current crop of RPGs

. Titles like Mass Effect and Fallout 3 dont really hold a candle in this respect, however they do things differently. Anyway PC gamers are always going to be fond of these older titles, as they are benchmark role playing games of their platform, and are still playable to date, and still provide ample amounts of entertainment. Console gamers do the same about their favourite past *insert system title*, the difference is the longevity of a PC game outweighs a console one, due to the ability to playback any old title. However games like Chrono Trigger have gotten remakes, which is great to see, and services like XBL Classics are pushing older titles to the consumer - just as services like GoodOldGames on the PC make older titles available to the consumer. However take this into account. You dont hear PC gamers complaining about multiplat titles Morrowind or KOTOR, and titles like Oblivion, while they get hammered by certain PC gamers, it still has a huge community, and fanbase (the mods and sales alone speak volumes) as does titles like Fallout. It really is alot less black and white as you put it in that regard.

It's just that I'm sick of hearing about how good Fallout is, and how bad modern RPGs are more than anything. I've played better games, much better games. The Witcher is one of them. Fallout is fairly dynamic with the way it deals with Roleplaying, but at the same time the gameplay is bland. Too bland to be as good as people say it is. It's qualities are often exagerated. The plot is nothing special for a start, the dialouge is mildly amusing at best, unless you play with low intelligence, but that's one extreme. People often go on about how much freedom you get with your character creation and how important that really is in changing the gameplay. In truth if you get the Advanced Power Armour early on you can play the game anyway you want, which is completely contrary to what people tell you. The only thing which completely changes the gameplay is low intelligence, and even then all that does is create amusing dialouge and leads to less freedom. It's still entertaining and worth playing, but it's just not what I would expect from a game hailed as one of the best of its kind.

The Witcher has a dynamic story, and it's pretty good, but there are essentially only 3 routes with a couple of other options that have a milder affect on the plot which don't actually change gameplay all that much, not as much as people make out anyway. It handles roleplaying fairly well, but at the same time it's choice system isn't really any better than with Mass Effect, which we now know will affect ME2. Some things which seemed a bit inconsequential (*Spoiler* Such as the bug (Can't remember what it's called, starts with an A.) queen being eliminated or left alive *spoiler end* Can't remember the tag.)will have a greater affect later on, and even ignoring that alot of your choices already had a large impact in Mass Effect anyway. In terms of Plot it's not really as good as Mass Effect either, and it's not as well written either. It's voice acting is also inferior. The plot is not bad, but it's dervitive in many places, something that ME is also accused of (I'm not going into details because I'll spoil it, but it's been done a million times.).

I'm not saying it's Black and White either. I know people have diffrent tastes regardless of platform, but going back to before the release of Fallout 3 the amount of hate that game got was ridiculous. Every single topic filled with the same nonsense, it got to the point where no one could actually discuss the game because the foums were ruled by haters. That annoyed me alot. I also hated Morrowind, alot. That's another game I don't understand the love for. I couldn't stand it, and I'm fairly tolerant with games.

Nevermind though, it dosn't matter. Overall I just don't like the nostalgic and pessemistic attitude that alot of posters take.

1. I felt my actions in the Witcher impacted the story to a much greater degree than in Fallout 3. The most change i saw in Fallout 3 was people avoiding me when i was bad, and bounties being put on my head. Wow so impressive. Why should i care?

2. Not really something i see as a plus when the gun play felt terrible and the VATs system made everything extremely easy. I didn't care about how my sword looked in the Witcher because i felt the combat just felt better, especially with the 3 different **** and two different swords i had to adjust to depending on what enemy i was facing. The alchemy system also added more depth to the combat.

3. I actually felt like my skills were improving with the Witcher's system, can't say the same about Fallout 3.

4. Persuading them to do what? Why would i care how persuasive i was? Its not like it really effected anything that much.

5. I'll give you that, I didn't really find Fallout's world to be that interesting.

6. The Witcher had a much better storyline to me. Fallout 3's was just utter trash.

AAllxxjjnn

It's just that I'm sick of hearing about how good Fallout is, and how bad modern RPGs are more than anything. I've played better games, much better games. The Witcher is one of them. Fallout is fairly dynamic with the way it deals with Roleplaying, but at the same time the gameplay is bland. Too bland to be as good as people say it is. It's qualities are often exagerated. The plot is nothing special for a start, the dialouge is mildly amusing at best, unless you play with low intelligence, but that's one extreme. People often go on about how much freedom you get with your character creation and how important that really is in changing the gameplay. In truth if you get the Advanced Power Armour early on you can play the game anyway you want, which is completely contrary to what people tell you. The only thing which completely changes the gameplay is low intelligence, and even then all that does is create amusing dialouge and leads to less freedom. It's still entertaining and worth playing, but it's just not what I would expect from a game hailed as one of the best of its kind.

The Witcher has a dynamic story, and it's pretty good, but there are essentially only 3 routes with a couple of other options that have a milder affect on the plot which don't actually change gameplay all that much, not as much as people make out anyway. It handles roleplaying fairly well, but at the same time it's choice system isn't really any better than with Mass Effect, which we now know will affect ME2. Some things which seemed a bit inconsequential (*Spoiler* Such as the bug (Can't remember what it's called, starts with an A.) queen being eliminated or left alive *spoiler end* Can't remember the tag.)will have a greater affect later on, and even ignoring that alot of your choices already had a large impact in Mass Effect anyway. In terms of Plot it's not really as good as Mass Effect either, and it's not as well written either. It's voice acting is also inferior. The plot is not bad, but it's dervitive in many places, something that ME is also accused of (I'm not going into details because I'll spoil it, but it's been done a million times.).

I'm not saying it's Black and White either. I know people have diffrent tastes regardless of platform, but going back to before the release of Fallout 3 the amount of hate that game got was ridiculous. Every single topic filled with the same nonsense, it got to the point where no one could actually discuss the game because the foums were ruled by haters. That annoyed me alot. I also hated Morrowind, alot. That's another game I don't understand the love for. I couldn't stand it, and I'm fairly tolerant with games.

Nevermind though, it dosn't matter. Overall I just don't like the nostalgic and pessemistic attitude that alot of posters take.

Ek-Andy

While I cant comment completely on ME, as I am towards the end of the game, but haven't finished it - but I did complete the bit in the spoiler, but The Witcher does similar things, revisiting choices in the past that modify the future timeline. However what I can say is that in ME I really haven't felt the gravity of my actions like I have in The Witcher. However I like both games equally, for different reasons. Bioware really does seem to be wanting to nail interactive story telling - blurring lines (one thing I love about the game) - more than the impact of decision and consequence however - in a purer role playing sense - stuff the like the combat system really does back that up ... Though as far as using previous saves as an extension of your story from the first game to the second, you can argue what Bioware is doing now with Mass Effect is already just an extension of Baldur's Gate 1 to 2. However again, its in a pretty different design context.

Honestly the hate towards Fallout 3 isn't surprising. Fallout is a much loved IP, and still retains a large fanbase for the original series... whats even more surprising is that the original series still sells well at retail, which I suppose is testament to this.
It'll happen with any much loved IP, however having Bethesda, post Oblivion with an IP like Fallout, really was a cocktail for heated fan anger.

But well, that's what people do. Its all just difference of opinion, however some people are more vocal than others, and when there are more people who share a similar opinion, its going to be far more pronounced.

Personally I can see merits in the arguments against Fallout 3, however at the same time I believe in factoring in what makes FO3 such a good game, let alone successful one. Which really boils down to me hating certain conflicting aspects of FO3, and loving others. In the end I cant say the game sucks, or is amazing, let alone in between - its certainly does good does outweigh bad.

Anyway, nostaligia and pessimistic views of recent titles comes hand in hand, I think everyone can be guilty of it in some respects, though yeah, some more than others.

Overall I just don't like the nostalgic and pessemistic attitude that alot of posters take.Ek-Andy

-Wall of tears-

jwsoul

How unarrogant of you to assume that PC gamers "don't know that Fallout 3 is more ambitious than blahblah" and then just say that they "disagree because Fallout 3 is on consoles". :roll:

I haven't played Fallout 1 or 2. I have played Fallout 3, and it's a broad but shallow pool. Pretty much 90% of the entire frakking RPG-stats list has a negligible impact on the game, with the only real ones of value being hacking, repair, dialouge and lockpicking, since VATS and your asinine health bar makes combat improvement unnecessary. Grey areas are meaningless and lack any real consequences, especially compared to the Witcher where it has a significant impact on how and where the story arcs. For me, the horrid writing made Fallout 3 feel unnatural and unimmersive, and its characters were ALL STUPID.

So, yeah, for me the game did not draw me in. My choices were meaningless since there was always once obviously beneficial way, with no real grey areas to speak of where you choose between two things of equal value, which is ingrained in The Witcher's storyline. The combat was boring because it held no challenge - even the Witcher required me to pay attention. Fallout 3? VATS, VATS, AP-boost drugs, VATS, VATS, and more VATS.

Thing is, that's not what I imagine in an RPG. In an RPG, I don't care for being able to explore vast amounts of meaningless crap. I don't care for having a huge world surrounding me, filled with 90% identical locations, like Fallout 3's repertoire of greyish brown filler. All I want is that my input actually has a major effect on the game, both impacting me negatively and positively with every single choice. Fallout 3 didn't offer that. Pro-moral decisions held no meaning because all you had to do was give some random hobo bottles of "clean" water, and you'd make up for killing innocents. Most of your stats are useless, so it's just a matter of pumping all that XP you earned into the ones which do matter - which isn't many. And even then, level progression in general meant little because they kept some part of that retarded "enemies level up with you" system.

The Witcher, despite being far more limited in exploration and character customization (with the only real difference between the two games being that you can't change your appearance in the Witcher), is lightyears ahead when it comes down to choice, morality, writing and more engaging when it came down to combat. It's still not the best RPG I've ever played, but it's still orders of magnitude better than Fallout 3.

[QUOTE="Ek-Andy"] Overall I just don't like the nostalgic and pessemistic attitude that alot of posters take.naval

Sarcastic and pesemsitic, exactly what I mean. I don't care if you prefer Fallout over Fallout 3, or whatever. The point was that Fallout isn't as good as people say it is, and the reason people think it's so great, and get really defensive about as you prove yourself, is because of nostalgia.

No, the best is still Fallout 3, even without the DLC.

Best RPG this gen is:

1. Fallout 3

2. The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

3. Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess

4. Mass Effect

5. Persona 4

6. Valkyria Chronicles

7. The Witcher: Enhanced Edition

8. Fable 2

9. Tales of Vesperia

10. Disgaea 3

ihsanqueen

[QUOTE="naval"][QUOTE="Ek-Andy"] Overall I just don't like the nostalgic and pessemistic attitude that alot of posters take.Ek-Andy

Sarcastic and pesemsitic, exactly what I mean. I don't care if you prefer Fallout over Fallout 3, or whatever. The point was that Fallout isn't as good as people say it is, and the reason people think it's so great, and get really defensive about as you prove yourself, is because of nostalgia.

[QUOTE="naval"][QUOTE="Ek-Andy"] Overall I just don't like the nostalgic and pessemistic attitude that alot of posters take.Ek-Andy

Sarcastic and pesemsitic, exactly what I mean. I don't care if you prefer Fallout over Fallout 3, or whatever. The point was that Fallout isn't as good as people say it is, and the reason people think it's so great, and get really defensive about as you prove yourself, is because of nostalgia.

Circular logic is circular. :lol:

[QUOTE="Ek-Andy"]

[QUOTE="naval"] ah ... so anone prefers the orignal fallouts over the fallout which has not story , no dialogues worth hearing, no characters, mindless combat, they are nostalgic :lol: good onealiblabla2007

Sarcastic and pesemsitic, exactly what I mean. I don't care if you prefer Fallout over Fallout 3, or whatever. The point was that Fallout isn't as good as people say it is, and the reason people think it's so great, and get really defensive about as you prove yourself, is because of nostalgia.

Circular logic is circular. :lol:

That dosn't even make sense. I'm not sure if you were just trying to annoy me, but you have. He didn't present me an argument to respond to, what the hell do you want me to say?

[QUOTE="Ek-Andy"]

[QUOTE="naval"] ah ... so anone prefers the orignal fallouts over the fallout which has not story , no dialogues worth hearing, no characters, mindless combat, they are nostalgic :lol: good onenaval

Sarcastic and pesemsitic, exactly what I mean. I don't care if you prefer Fallout over Fallout 3, or whatever. The point was that Fallout isn't as good as people say it is, and the reason people think it's so great, and get really defensive about as you prove yourself, is because of nostalgia.

If your not being sarcastic then stop using sarcastic smiley faces. I'm presenting a point and basing an argument around that, that's not being defensive. Throwing flamebait in response to that IS. Now stop wasting my time and annoying me unless you want to actually justify your own points.

I stopped playing it after act 3.Don't know why but I just can't get back into it.

[QUOTE="aliblabla2007"]

[QUOTE="Ek-Andy"]

Sarcastic and pesemsitic, exactly what I mean. I don't care if you prefer Fallout over Fallout 3, or whatever. The point was that Fallout isn't as good as people say it is, and the reason people think it's so great, and get really defensive about as you prove yourself, is because of nostalgia.

Ek-Andy

Circular logic is circular. :lol:

That dosn't even make sense. I'm not sure if you were just trying to annoy me, but you have. He didn't present me an argument to respond to, what the hell do you want me to say?

Let me get this straight:

Your bolded line sums up your entire argument: You say that Fallout is overrated and that it's overrated because of nostalgia. Then, whenever a hermit tries to disagreeing, you say that he's merely nostalgic and is again overrating Fallout because it's oh so different from your almighty gaming "fact". You're using a point that hermits are nostalgic to support the overration argument and you're using the overration argument to support the nostalgia argument. Of course, anyone can tell you that this is logic's equivalent of epic fail.

Understand now? :roll:

No, the best is still Fallout 3, even without the DLC.

Best RPG this gen is:

1. Fallout 3

2. The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

3. Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess

4. Mass Effect

5. Persona 4

6. Valkyria Chronicles

7. The Witcher: Enhanced Edition

8. Fable 2

9. Tales of Vesperia

10. Disgaea 3

ihsanqueen

I'm in chapter 2 rigth now and yes the game is awesome I'm loving playing it. It's a shame that the console version was put on the shelf, i was waiting for the ps3 version, but the game was canceled for the consoles then i decided to play it on my pc and is certainly a great game i hope they do a sequel

played the first few minutes...didnt like the combat.

[QUOTE="Ek-Andy"]

[QUOTE="aliblabla2007"]

Circular logic is circular. :lol:

aliblabla2007

That dosn't even make sense. I'm not sure if you were just trying to annoy me, but you have. He didn't present me an argument to respond to, what the hell do you want me to say?

Let me get this straight:

Your bolded line sums up your entire argument: You say that Fallout is overrated and that it's overrated because of nostalgia. Then, whenever a hermit tries to disagreeing, you say that he's merely nostalgic and is again overrating Fallout because it's oh so different from your almighty gaming "fact". You're using a point that hermits are nostalgic to support the overration argument and you're using the overration argument to support the nostalgia argument. Of course, anyone can tell you that this is logic's equivalent of epic fail.

Understand now? :roll:

I provided my reasons earlier, did you just miss the last two large posts I made? It's got nothing to do with circular logic, it was a summary of my argument in response to his response, you want to read the rest scorl back a few pages. I'm expressing my opinion, am I not allowed to do that anymore because it's slightly contraversial? And I love the way you attempt to blatantly offend me for no other reason than you can, and can't be bothered to put up a sensible argument against mine that isn't pure flamebait. Understand why you have annoyed me now? What was that you were saying about "epic fail"?

[QUOTE="aliblabla2007"]

[QUOTE="Ek-Andy"]

That dosn't even make sense. I'm not sure if you were just trying to annoy me, but you have. He didn't present me an argument to respond to, what the hell do you want me to say?

Ek-Andy

Let me get this straight:

Your bolded line sums up your entire argument: You say that Fallout is overrated and that it's overrated because of nostalgia. Then, whenever a hermit tries to disagreeing, you say that he's merely nostalgic and is again overrating Fallout because it's oh so different from your almighty gaming "fact". You're using a point that hermits are nostalgic to support the overration argument and you're using the overration argument to support the nostalgia argument. Of course, anyone can tell you that this is logic's equivalent of epic fail.

Understand now? :roll:

I provided my reasons earlier, did you just miss the last two large posts I made? It's got nothing to do with circular logic, it was a summary of my argument in response to his response, you want to read the rest scorl back a few pages. I'm expressing my opinion, am I not allowed to do that anymore because it's slightly contraversial? And I love the way you attempt to blatantly offend me for no other reason than you can, and can't be bothered to put up a sensible argument against mine that isn't pure flamebait. Understand why you have annoyed me now? What was that you were saying about "epic fail"?

Did you miss the large post I made earlier arguing Witchers case against Fallout 3?

[QUOTE="Ek-Andy"]

[QUOTE="aliblabla2007"]

Let me get this straight:

Your bolded line sums up your entire argument: You say that Fallout is overrated and that it's overrated because of nostalgia. Then, whenever a hermit tries to disagreeing, you say that he's merely nostalgic and is again overrating Fallout because it's oh so different from your almighty gaming "fact". You're using a point that hermits are nostalgic to support the overration argument and you're using the overration argument to support the nostalgia argument. Of course, anyone can tell you that this is logic's equivalent of epic fail.

Understand now? :roll:

dommeus

I provided my reasons earlier, did you just miss the last two large posts I made? It's got nothing to do with circular logic, it was a summary of my argument in response to his response, you want to read the rest scorl back a few pages. I'm expressing my opinion, am I not allowed to do that anymore because it's slightly contraversial? And I love the way you attempt to blatantly offend me for no other reason than you can, and can't be bothered to put up a sensible argument against mine that isn't pure flamebait. Understand why you have annoyed me now? What was that you were saying about "epic fail"?

Did you miss the large post I made earlier arguing Witchers case against Fallout 3?

No I read it, but I didn't feel I had to respond because we were pretty much at the point where it was agree to disagree. I would have responded, but it would look a bit messy. I've said every I felt I needed to at that point. Though I wasn't actually nessecarily arguing for Fallout 3, just preconcieved hate for games in general. I really should have though, so I apolgise for that.

Regardless I don't like it when people use insults in place of arguments, and I hate when people argue with sarcasm. Though I'm not referring to you.

[QUOTE="naval"]

[QUOTE="Ek-Andy"]

Sarcastic and pesemsitic, exactly what I mean. I don't care if you prefer Fallout over Fallout 3, or whatever. The point was that Fallout isn't as good as people say it is, and the reason people think it's so great, and get really defensive about as you prove yourself, is because of nostalgia.

Ek-Andy

If your not being sarcastic then stop using sarcastic smiley faces. I'm presenting a point and basing an argument around that, that's not being defensive. Throwing flamebait in response to that IS. Now stop wasting my time and annoying me unless you want to actually justify your own points.

[QUOTE="Ek-Andy"]

[QUOTE="naval"] sarcastic and pessimistic lol, more like looking beyond the shiny graphics and blowing up stuff. And I yeah I am getting defensive, as it is me who is writing 30 lines of wall of texts one after another :roll: oh wait ...and it was me who is getting annoyed by other people's opinion ...oh wait once more :roll:

naval

If your not being sarcastic then stop using sarcastic smiley faces. I'm presenting a point and basing an argument around that, that's not being defensive. Throwing flamebait in response to that IS. Now stop wasting my time and annoying me unless you want to actually justify your own points.

So rolling your eyes isn't sarcasm then? Right. You didn't provide examples as to why it wouldn't be a case of nostalgia, you spewed hate about Fallout 3 and then declined to back that up. It was nothing more than hate, no other reason, no justification. If it's got a bad story EXPLAIN why it has a bad story, and then explain what made the original story better. Besides you seem to have missed the point where I stated it had nothing to do with Fallout 3. If you go on to ANY forum expecting to be able to discuss a game, and you get back is pessmestic nonsense with no one actually being able to discuss the game because of it, then would you not be annoyed? So why shoudn't I be annoyed that I have to see hate for the title everywhere I go with nothing to really back that, and with no one being able to discuss anything else because of that?

"....more like looking beyond the shiny graphics and blowing up stuff."

Want me to explain why that's flamebait? Because it's clearly insulting my intelligence, how can you not see that? Are you suggesting I am a shallow person? Are you then going to suggest I shouldn't be annoyed at you out right offending me? I find it amazing that people don't realising they are posting flamebait. That's an opinion nested in an insult. That's not how your porperly discuss anything.

[QUOTE="PC360Wii"][QUOTE="jwsoul"]

No its not Fallout 3 beats the living poo out of it. In every way imaginable Fallout 3 is better, i find it surprising that people say other wise. You talk about the choices in the Witcher being in the Grey area thats far from the truth in most encounters, its actually quite blatant what your actions will result in most of the time. Honestly if you can not see how vastly superior Fallout 3 is to Witcher you need to go back and play Fallout 3 its literally a work of art. While the Witcher although excellent is limited and on tracks throughout most of the game.

Guy above me if you played on Wimpy mode known as normal no wonder you finished it in 30 hours or less.

Dragonfire why dont you inform us how lol the Witcher is better than Fallout 3? I mean really come on tell use? Anyone?

Fallout 3 is the current pinacle of RPG games and may remain so for a long time, no other game is out where your reactions to the environment and NPCs within it can affect you surroundings so much. No other RPG game allows the player to manipulate so many different parts of the environment EG, Hacking computers to get information, trigger automated turrets, control robots, start up a factory processing line. How about the FACT that you have the ability to be Good, Neutral, Evil and most if not lol all NPCs react differently to your standing within the world.

Fallout 3 you can Allie with many different factions, you can become a cannibal, slaver, Paladin of sorts, the list gose on and on.

jwsoul

Oh come on Fallout 3 has HUNDREDS of Grey areas not just 2 or 3 dotted over the game like the Witcher. Skrat just for your information i am quite aware of Deus Ex considering i played it on its release thanx very much.......

In a sense i can see how the Witcher story wise is much more focused and i guess in a fashion due to this it has some better Role Playing elements. None the less i still consider Fallout 3 to be vastly superior.

Honestly all i see on this thread is a bunch of Hermits touting a PC only game, its a great game i know but its not as expansive or awe inspiring as Fallout 3 or Baldurs Gate. Ek - Andy Fair play lol your comments about PC gamers is dot on mate.

Funny thing is a lot of the guys in this thread dont even look at my profile or the fact that i own more PC games than the majority of them and i am playing some of the games im referring to right now.

Honestly (cough) PC gamers in here, try out Fallout 3 instead of calling it bland and boring actually try it.

I had the same opinion then i brought it on a whim and honestly the landscape is not bland and boring and all the same, YOU would know this if you had played the game.

Bah

So rolling your eyes isn't sarcasm then? Right. You didn't provide examples as to why it wouldn't be a case of nostalgia, you spewed hate about Fallout 3 and then declined to back that up. It was nothing more than hate, no other reason, no justification. If it's got a bad story EXPLAIN why it has a bad story, and then explain what made the original story better. Besides you seem to have missed the point where I stated it had nothing to do with Fallout 3.Ek-Andy

rolling eyes is sarcastic but I didn't use any in the first post, check it out. So, anything else ?
Please do I really need to specify how story was bad ? All there was in that game was going from here to there and in the end a attack and finally purifying the water. I would not even call it a story. If you feel it's depeer than that please clarify .

The point was how people just like fallouts because of nostalgia and i just used fallout 3 as an example how it's better than that. Surely that point was not difficult to understand ?

If you go on to ANY forum expecting to be able to discuss a game, and you get back is pessmestic nonsense with no one actually being able to discuss the game because of it, then would you not be annoyed? So why shoudn't I be annoyed that I have to see hate for the title everywhere I go with nothing to really back that, and with no one being able to discuss anything else because of that?Ek-Andy

Well people do point out the flaws but you just ignore that, so feel free to get annoyed because ignore stuff.

"....more like looking beyond the shiny graphics and blowing up stuff."Want me to explain why that's flamebait? Because it's clearly insulting my intelligence, how can you not see that? Are you suggesting I am a shallow person? Are you then going to suggest I shouldn't be annoyed at you out right offending me? I find it amazing that people don't realising they are posting flamebait. That's an opinion nested in an insult. That's not how your porperly discuss anything.Ek-Andy

Yeah, its true that its the best.

But in my book Mass Effect is rather close.. Might be because I skipped those retarded sidemissions, know a lot of people getting so annoyed by those that they ended up hating the game. Wish it lasted for more then 7 hours though..

[QUOTE="Ek-Andy"]

rolling eyes is sarcastic but I didn't use any in the first post, check it out. So, anything else ?
Please do I really need to specify how story was bad ? All there was in that game was going from here to there and in the end a attack and finally purifying the water. I would not even call it a story. If you feel it's depeer than that please clarify .

The point was how people just like fallouts because of nostalgia and i just used fallout 3 as an example how it's better than that. Surely that point was not difficult to understand ?

[QUOTE="Ek-Andy"]
If you go on to ANY forum expecting to be able to discuss a game, and you get back is pessmestic nonsense with no one actually being able to discuss the game because of it, then would you not be annoyed? So why shoudn't I be annoyed that I have to see hate for the title everywhere I go with nothing to really back that, and with no one being able to discuss anything else because of that?naval

Well people do point out the flaws but you just ignore that, so feel free to get annoyed because ignore stuff.

"....more like looking beyond the shiny graphics and blowing up stuff."Want me to explain why that's flamebait? Because it's clearly insulting my intelligence, how can you not see that? Are you suggesting I am a shallow person? Are you then going to suggest I shouldn't be annoyed at you out right offending me? I find it amazing that people don't realising they are posting flamebait. That's an opinion nested in an insult. That's not how your porperly discuss anything.Ek-Andy

I see what is good in them, and I see what is bad in them. People often forget about the bad of the past so they can moan about the present. That's called nostalgia, and it's my theory that they love for Fallout is largely based on that. Nostalgia is just glorified pesemism for the present and future. The game has problems, and it's starting to show it's age. Games have came along and bested it, like KoTOR. Alot of games may not be quite as deep as Fallout, but at the end of the day there are a few that are more fun. I'm not even saying Fallout 3 is better, I'm just saying it's good. There is a fair bit to Fallout 3, for a start there is a large and varied world to explore. There are enjoyable side quests. There are a great selection of weapons, and combat can be enteraing (Incidently combat in Fallout is plain outdated. It's not fun anymore, and I doubt it was fun to begin with. Fallout 3 trumps the originals there.) if you chose to make it so. The humour falls flat alot of the time, but the atmosphere is far more impresive than in the original. And if you knew you were not going to like Fallout 3 why did you buy it? The key to enjoying Fallout 3 is to look at it as an action adventure title rather than an RPG, because that is essentially what it is. You could complain about it not being a true sequel, but that is a ridiculous argument because it's 9 years to late for anyone to make it one. It's just a fun game on it's own rights. The story is nothing special, infact it's bad, but story isn't a strong point for the Fallout series (No, it really isn't.) annyway.

Also even if you didn't intend to offend anyone with that comment, it was actually offensive because of the meaning behind what is being said as "seeing beyond". To say that you see beyond something that someone else has not is to suggest they are shallow. That's essentially what that phrase means.

"Well people do point out the flaws but you just ignore that, so feel free to get annoyed because ignore stuff."

It's not about just pointing out flaws, it's about ONLY pointing out flaws. You refused to accept that anything was good about the game, and that's pesimism.

Finally that's what I mean by justify. I know the story is bad, but you still have to justify what you're saying if you want to support an argument. Just saying "The combat was bad." is not enough to prove a point. Explain what was so bad about. Your justification for the story being bad wasn't very good though. Here's why the story was bad:

The game has intresting introduction, but really the whole story goes down hill from here. Basically the plot was never focused. SPOILERS The first section of the story simply covers you finding your dad, which is a fairly good framing story for the remainder of the game, but unfrotunately you find him rather quickly, and after that it goes off on a complete tangent about purifying water, which wasn't all that great. The game tried to force an emotional reaction out of the player with the Father son connection, but the writers failed to establish this and the end result was all emotional impact was lost when they attempted it. The main problem with the plot was that it was very generic and unoriginal, and badly told. The ending was awful, bland, unoriginal and unsatisfying.

That is justification.

I see what is good in them, and I see what is bad in them. People often forget about the bad of the past so they can moan about the present. That's called nostalgia, and it's my theory that they love for Fallout is largely based on that. Nostalgia is just glorified pesemism for the present and future. The game has problems, and it's starting to show it's age. Games have came along and bested it, like KoTOR. Alot of games may not be quite as deep as Fallout, but at the end of the day there are a few that are more fun. I'm not even saying Fallout 3 is better, I'm just saying it's good.Ek-Andy

There is a fair bit to Fallout 3, for a start there is a large and varied world to explore. There are enjoyable side quests. There are a great selection of weapons, and combat can be enteraing (Incidently combat in Fallout is plain outdated. It's not fun anymore, and I doubt it was fun to begin with. Fallout 3 trumps the originals there.) if you chose to make it so. The humour falls flat alot of the time, but the atmosphere is far more impresive than in the original. And if you knew you were not going to like Fallout 3 why did you buy it? The key to enjoying Fallout 3 is to look at it as an action adventure title rather than an RPG, because that is essentially what it is. You could complain about it not being a true sequel, but that is a ridiculous argument because it's 9 years to late for anyone to make it one. It's just a fun game on it's own rights. The story is nothing special, infact it's bad, but story isn't a strong point for the Fallout series (No, it really isn't.) annyway.Ek-Andy

Also even if you didn't intend to offend anyone with that comment, it was actually offensive because of the meaning behind what is being said as "seeing beyond". To say that you see beyond something that someone else has not is to suggest they are shallow. That's essentially what that phrase means.Ek-Andy