Switch's Unforeseen Advantage?

Something @AzatiS said in the other thread got me thinking about whether or not Switch has an advantage that we're not really thinking about. This is what my response was going to be:

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@AzatiS said:

@FireEmblem_Man: ll.

Because Switch as home console will have to directly compete with PRO / Scorpio and when developers will start seriously pushing PRO/SCORPIO hardware in 2019 and beyond ... Switch wont even be able to think to compete and then what ? Missing 95% of 3rd parties again ? End up secondary platform again ? 3 years lifespan before go in life support ? You get the idea ?

Nope

Q: Will PS4 Pro have separate or exclusive games?

There will not be any PS4 Pro-exclusive games. Because PS4 Pro and the standard PS4 are members of the same family, both systems will be fully compatible with all past, present, and future PS4 titles, including PlayStation VR. All PS4 games are PS4 Pro games, and vice-versa.

And nope

We said we're not going to have console-exclusive games for Project Scorpio. It's one ecosystem--whether you have an Xbox One S or Project Scorpio, we don't want anyone to be left behind

If the games can't run on the Vanilla PS4 and Xbox One, then they won't get created. This is the biggest advantage that Nintendo has. It won't have to up the ante on power until at the earliest 2019-2020, unless Microsoft and Sony want to burn the customers who just purchased their PS4 Pro or Scorpio with PS5's and Xbox Two's.

As long as it comes close to Xbox One performance, something that still remains to be seen of course, there will be no game that Nintendo can't get. This is all dependent of course on whether or not Switch can achieve Xbox One levels of power."

Then I started to wonder:

One fact that we are forgetting is that the Switch seems very modular in nature as well. In 2020, what is to stop Nintendo from releasing a new dock for the switch with a way more powerful GPU to keep up in the "arms race" performance-wise?

Couldn't they just market "a new dock with 10 teraflops of powah" and make the Switch the most powerful console on the market? You wouldn't need a new Switch console, you just buy the dock, for say, $100-$150 and presto the Switch becomes a beast when docked.

Am I totally off base? Just some thoughts?

The jury is still out power wise, but if it's close enough (reaching here) with docking, or a future docking option (which wouldn't be to far fetch considering consoles are made with similar architecture) then sure why not.

However I think Nintendo biggest strength will still be first party Co op. These days if you want to play with friends, you need a separate TV, separate console, mic, ect, ect.

I think you got the ideal. Nintendo could upgrade the screen like they did with the 3DS to n3DS. Im not worried about power, the X1 Chip is pretty powerful and Nvidia said this one is more advanced.

So that puts us right around Xbox and PS4 in power. And games should be close too. But the Switch will have to sell good first in order for third party to come.

Right now only third party is 3DS and Wii U put together. Its got the same companies on board with a couple new ones.

Yeah but if they're trying to market it as a primarily home console, which could just be PR speak, the forget the portable, just improve the power through a dock.

Nintendo with the most powerful console on the market?

LOL

I think it's folly to believe this system would be comparable to the PS4 and X1.

Seems like a fair assumption. Not that it'll convince the naysayers on this board; for most of them, nothing Nintendo does will ever win them over. They like to have a whipping boy, and Nintendo plays the part well for them.

@sHaDyCuBe321: that's all fine and dandy but eventually PS4 Pro and Scorpio will become the low end model console and Sony and MS will push a new higher end model. Regluar PS4 and Xbox One/s will be phased out and force people to go pro or Scorpio or leap frog them to the next system. IMO this will be the norm going forward every 3 years or so.

If that Tegra processor is based on the Pascal architecture, and they don't charge too much...well can you imagine?

For a while it seemed like publishers weren't gonna drop last gen (PS3/360) but now even the new Battlefield and COD are launching soley for current gen consoles and PC.

If the attachment rates for PS4 pro and Xbone are really high, what's to stop them from dropping older hardware ?

@Pedro: Why? These consoles are over 3 years old by now.

Maybe, i see what your saying now, release a supplemental dock. Thatd be pretty smart.

Remember that Nintendo isn't trying to compete with Pro/Scorpio, they are doing there own thing as they always do, always has, always will be and the reveal video shows that they are going for something new and innovating. All in all, as long as Switch is able to port 3rd party games easily without any compromise, then that's good enough for me.

Also this was already known both Sony/MS won't make there upgrade consoles have exclusive, the games will be play both upgrade console and regular current-gen consoles.

Because the system is simply too small to achieve the performance of these two systems. Not only that, it has to be affordable.

It's going to be an interesting next few years regardless of what happens. And honestly, it's pretty much safe to say at this point that traditional console gaming is now dead and buried. With Nintendo going with the hybrid and MS/Sony doing incremental upgrades and all of them supporting post-release updates/patches and online connectivity, the days of "plug-n-play" are gone for good.

Which, for someone who grew up in it's heyday, and enjoyed console gaming equally alongside PC gaming, is a massive disappointment.

@Pedro: Nvidia stated their new chips are more affordable, more effienct, and more powerful. I mean come on, were talking about the company that just released a card more efficient, more powerful, and half the price of the $1K Titan.

If you want to believe that the Switch has the power of the PS4 or Xbox One in such a small form factor then knock yourself out. But be prepared to be disappointed.

@Pedro: No one said it is, i stated its close. The X1 Chip thats available today is pretty darn close. Nintendo fans dont care about power, we want games. And if we have to compromise by buying more power, then so be it.

Lets go with the facts, the Switch appears to be more powerful than the Wii U. The X1 chip is way more powerful than the Wii U. And remember this thing is a handheld also.

Sounds pretty impressive to me. I just worry about battery life since n3DS XL is 3-5 hours. But o well, i can live with it.

I can agree with this but I am hoping the Xbox Scorpio and PS4 Pro stabilizes this arms race because of diminishing returns.

nintendo just announced they left the console market, it is a 3ds sucessor not a new console, the could create a dock for the 3ds as well, its like to plu a tablet to hdmi port on tv and playing with a x360 controller on it, x1 is weak and is a cross gen console but switch is not close to it

ps4 x1 are dead, this christmas ps4 will sell half of what ps3 sold in the end of 2013, as everyone will be moving to the pro / scorpio in less than 2 years it will be announced that developers are free to ignore ps4/x1

@foxhound_fox: Switch will still be plug and play. One of Switchs listed partners is a plug and play streaming device. They state they specialize in instant demos and games were you dont have to download them.

Its not much, but its something.

@sHaDyCuBe321: i appreciate your defense brotha!

No, its not close. If Nintendo fans want games then the power of the system matters. If third parties cannot easily port their PS4 and X1 games to the system its going to be abandon. This system is a mobile device and not a home console. To expect performance of a home console it would need different hardware but its sporting all mobile parts. As a home console this system would deliver on the same level as the WiiU from what has been shown. Is it possible I could be wrong about the systems performance and third parties jumping ship because they now have to make games for a mobile device akin to a phone/tablet? Yes. But I highly doubt that will be the case.

Thats a plus.

@Pedro: Mobile tablet devices are almost as powerful as consoles now. Nvidia is evidence to this. Its like stating PS4 isnt close to PC. Who cares, its close enough.

We have no third party jumping ship yet. We have the same third party Nintendo always has except now we got From Software and Bethesda. Neither which require much power.

The most powerful game we saw was NBA2K17. A CPU heavy game. Nintendo cant afford to get EVERYTHING. The have a ton of support as it is. If it sells good, they might get a few more.

Since Gen 8 started I've had this feeling that it would be the last real console generation. Time will tell if Switch/Pro/Scorpio will be considered Gen 9 or not, but I don't think there's much of a future for dedicated consoles beyond this.

All I can hope for now is that each device released is kept afloat with quality games.

No they are not almost as powerful as consoles. You think the PS4 and Xbox One would be the size they currently at if it they could have been made with smaller, cost effective and efficient parts? Nope. These systems would have a reduction in both size and power consumption. Sony and MS reduced the sizes of their console with their latest iteration and now you are trying to tell me that Nintendo and Nvidia are capable of packing comparable performance in less than 1/3 of the same space and power? And lets not forget that its also rumored to be $299 at release. I think such an assertion is rather silly.

Its also funny your mentioned to game developers who are known to have performance issues for their games and then followed that mentioning that they didn't require much power. Keep in mind that Skyrim is a last gen game. The game that was demoed religiously throughout the reveal was a last gen game.

There will still be updates, there will still be online connection issues. It will never be "plug in cart, push power on, start playing" again.

@Pedro: And you know this how? I don't expect it to beat the PS4/X1 but it wouldn't surprise me if it did. The new Tegra X1 GPU is based on the Pascal architecture which has a much higher performance/watt than the GCN 1st/2nd Gen the X1/PS4 GPU's are based on. Wouldn't be extremely difficult to make a small console exceed their performance while maintaining a reasonable price. The problem really lies in the tablet and its battery life.

Im saying yes, the new Google Pixel X1 Tablet has graphics very close to Xbox One and PS4. Were not talking AMD, were talking Nvidia, the worlds leader in graphics.

I was talking about Fallout and Dark Souls. Not exactly your most impressive graphical games. And you dont know if thats old Skyrim, thats most likely the new 1080p Skyrim. Heck, Wii U could have played Skyrim as its more graphical advanced than 360 and PS3.

As far as battery length goes, Nintendo claim it will last 4 hours of straight use but I wouldn't really worry about that, I'm pretty sure Nintendo will make a USB power plug but only time will tell.

@davillain-: That would be awesome. n3DS XL is 3-5hr battery life.

@iandizion713: That's what Nintendo is trying to do since they know battery life is also going to play a huge part in Switch, 4 hours is fine for me and I hardly ever run out of juice on my 3DS anyways.

And Nintendo can follow that norm by releasing incrementally stronger docks every 3 years.

Burning 40-50 million Vanilla PS4 users might. Let's also not forget that casuals will see a $300 Slim, versus a $400 console in the Pro this holiday season. $100 can seem like a lot for a mom who's not interested in future-proofing her 12 year old's system. So by the time Nintendo releases this more powerful dock (let's say 3 years from now) the amount of Pro/Scorpio users won't be enough to to have developers completely abandon the original userbase.

Pro won't sell 60 million units in 3 years, and Scorpio won't sell 30 million in 2 years. They'll vanilla userbases to make any money back given the costs and manpower necessary for true AAA games.

Some sources, that have provided legit information, have stated otherwise. People want to be selective with the info they use. This is where the 3hr battery life thing came from. If you want to believe 3 hr battery life, you have to also believe that the dock has extra processing people. People can't pick and choose what they want to believe.

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Why would anybody even consider the Switch even at this point for AAA western third party games unless they're absolutely dying to play those on the go? I already got a vanilla XB1 and PS4, and I'd probably play my AAA multiplatforms there first before getting them on the Switch.

Japanese developers I'd imagine will be all over it, after all it's the successor to the 3DS and there's no Vita on the market, they're gonna get many more games coming to Switch on that alone, and it's going to be one system for Nintendo now, no more splitting development between two devices equally, they can now double their output on one device assuming development time hasn't increased even more.

I see Nintendo gaming devices more as a supplemental gaming experience, this is no different. It doesn't matter than Pro and Scorpio are coming, you won't be able to play many of the games the Switch will get on either of those, especially Nintendo's signature first party games.

@sHaDyCuBe321: Everyone gets burned after a while. Wether you own older console hardware, or wether you own older PC hardware.

Leaving people with older tech behind is nothing new.

Also, it seems like all the game bundles are coming with the slim model, so yeah I get that the slim looks like a way better deal. Personally I'm interested in a pro, but as of yet no game bundles :(

No you are not off base , you have a point there.

Thats why i said ill do my full analysis on official , full reveal so we know all details. Even if i was speaking from a marketing standpoint i still beleive that if Nintendo tries to market Switch as home console then automatically its head 2 head comparison with PRO/ SCORPIO will make it feel subpar of a console which then PRICE will be a deciding factor value speaking .

Will it be cheap ? Will it be as pricey as a PS4 or more ? Will offer 3rd parties in the fashion other home consoles do or not ?

There are so many questions need to be answered actually.

We gonna know soon enough . Good points there though , different docks with extra power will be epic.

Good points.

Anyone expecting the Switch to be as powerful as PS4/Xbone is setting themselves up for selfownage and failure. It will be underpowered to maintain its small form factor and portability.

A dock upgrade will render the gimmick of the Switch moot because the increase in power will only be present while tethered to the dock. Keeping up in the hardware arms race would require an upgrade to both components.

Assuming the Switch has the power to at least run ports from the other two it will be fine. Of course if MS and Sony go back on their word and make Scorpio/Pro only games anyways than this whole argument means nothing.

@sHaDyCuBe321: I would also like to bring this up

Still a lot of Questions of the capabilities of the Switch and we're not sure if Nintendo will go with this in the future, but it is a great idea.

The Switch is not going to have the raw numbers but the results can certainly come within shouting distance. When you factor in the relatively low res 720p screen it's report to have and the fact that's almost guaranteed to have a better CPU (not to say it will be beast Jaguar is just utter trash) then it's not hard to imagine the Switch getting ports that are comparable to it's counterparts.

If the Switch can run laps around the WiiU, I'll be ok with that... AS LONG AS the damn thing isn't $400.

Hey now , i didnt attack you in the first place. Is how i personally see things and we discussed some problems that might occur if Nintendo market SWITCH as a home console . Told you ill let you know what i think with in depth analysis when it gets a full reveal ( my opinion again ). You didnt need a defender in the first place !

Yo! There might be too many Switch threads.

@GameboyTroy: Cant help it, the suspense is killing us.

I think anyone saying they are going to just upgrade the dock is delusional. That will never happen.

Because they didn't show everything about the Switch.