Spector vs Levine vs Molyneux

Warren Spector, best known for System Shock 1, Deus Ex, Thief: The Dark Project, some Wing Commander games Crusader: No Remorse, and some Ultima games, including pioneering true 3D FPS spin-off, Underworld.

vs

Ken Levine best known for System Shock 2 and BioShock trilogy, a protege of Spector.

vs Peter Molyneux best known for pioneering the God strategy genre with Populous, and then he had other successful strategy titles like Powermonger, Syndicate, Theme Park - and finally - Dungeon Keeper, but then he also created highly successful and breakthrough Magic Carpet, and then Black & White and Fable games.

Who would get your vote?

Personally I'd probably go for Spector, but on the other hand you cannot deny Molyneux's CV isn't impressive regardless of what you might have thought about him in the last decade.

hmm lets go see.. Molyneux a liar, fraud and some one who is basically ignored by the industry now.. And really only was some one of merit back in the 90s with games like Populous and Dungeon Keeper..

Ken Levine.. A guy who developed a great game like System Shock 2.. Than returned to go develop the mediocre fps series known as Bioshock which has gotten worse with each iteration and basically falling exactly into line with the typical AAA dev pattern..

I think Spector would win by default..

This might be an unpopular choice now, but... Peter Molyneux.

100% agreed.

Molyneux because he's actually involved in designing his games. Those other dudes (especially that hack Spector) are just figureheads.

real answer is Will Wright

Specter just because DX.

After Molyneux's behavior and treatment within his game Godus, he is the worse of the bunch..

This is like a who's who of who went on to be a bigger hack.

Ken Levine

Honestly, none

Will Wright.

He's in another tier, I'd put him with Sid Meier.

Well considering my love of Bioshock, probably Levine.

@Salt_The_Fries: Right, damn, I forgot Meier. Undoubtedly one of the few true geniuses and visionaries of the industry

I'll say Spector, given that I love his pioneering of emergent gameplay.

Then again, Spector completely snubbed be at a gaming event I went to, so screw him! :p

I actually agree. He's the most profound of the choices.

DX > most shit u like

Levine.

Old Molyneux > Spector > Levine > Modern Molyneux.

Despite all his shenanigans, I have only very recently lost respect for Molyneux. He simply had a godly amount of achievements from over a decade ago, and only people who started gaming in the last decade could easily dismiss Molyneux's name.

Warren Spector by far.

Have played two games by Levine and they were both excellent. Have no interest in playing any of the games made by the other two. So Levine wins.

Vote for what? Comptroller?

Molyneux > Levine > Spector

Spector designed only Deus Ex and Epic Mickey 1-2. Deus Ex is godtier, but just one game simply isn't enough to compete. all the other games you've named he had very little involvment and there are other people who, unlike Spector, were actually were responsible for bringing them to life.

How are people even putting Molyneux in the list to begin with? This isn't praising the others, but you guys must have forgotten Moly has done.. Not only has he out right lied and exaggerated the Fable series (getting worse with each iteration).. The cherry on the top of this shit sundae is the whole Godus fiasco which he more or less abandoned before getting released from kickstarter.. And basically took back all the promises he made for the game.. Say what you want about the other two, nothing comes to the asshatery to what Molyneux has done.

Warren Spector was also behind games like Ultima Underworld, Wing Commander, and System Shock. Much of what Levine has done was building on the groundwork of Spector, so I don't see why Levine should be ranked above Spector.

Why? Simple. Spector wasn't behind any of the games you've just named

Simple. He was completely and utterly incredible in 80s and 90s. And still managed to be decent in the first half of 00s. He's turned crap in recent years, but not enough to wipe out the incredible things he did before. There's a reason why after he left Bullfrog everybody was dying to hire him, Nintendo included.

Not sure what you mean. Spector is credited as the producer of those games.

Exactly producer, the directors were in charge of shaping the game and the creative direction of the game. Guys like Doug Church and Richard Garriot were the directors for System Shock 1 and Ultima Underworld. Wing Commander was Chris Roberts.

Levine actually was lead writer and designer on System Shock 2, the writer and lead for Freedom Force, and the Bioshock games 1 and Infinite are entirely on him. Spector wasn't really "the guy" on any of his projects until like Werner mentioned: Deus Ex, and the 2 epic mickey games.

Yes. Producer. They all had different lead designers and project leads. Spector was just producer. Helping with communication with publisher, keeping the money and milestones in check and ocassionally giving advice. He wasn't in those studios day by day. He was an employee of Origin at the time, which was in Austin, while Looking Glass was located in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Even for games that were produced at Origin he had little involvment in actual design of those games and it's not like he's shy to admit it.

All those games had very strong project leads behind them. Dough Church, Chris Roberts, Tony Zurovec, which actually camed up with the ideas, lead the whole team and designed the core game.

Are there people out there who still find it within themselves to respect Peter? That poor fellow is a bit of an outcast now, isn't he? His meltdown hasn't extended to the twitterverse yet, but there's still time...

What do all three have in common?

They all stumbled recently.

They will end up like Richard Garriot, someone who made an influential game or series, but can't put it together anymore.

Poor Peter, can't catch a break these days. lol

Garriot isn't that bad. He didn't make a bad game like Molyneux has been for last couple years and Shroud of Avatar is shaping up pretty nicely. Unlike Peter it seems Garrior knows how to make something his fans expect.

It's a damn shame really what Molyneux is pulling off these days. I had such high hopes for Godus :(

Ummmm. Ultima IX?

That game was horrible, and I don't blame EA, I blame Garriot and the infighting that Origin had.

Ultima IX is actually awesome. Of course, to be awesome it needs not just all the official patches, but unofficial patch made by ex-Origin dev and then fan made patches for story, gameplay and economy :D

Still...Ultima IX, while buggy, unfinished and terribly unoptimized, still had a core of a great game. You just had to swim through a lot of crap to get there.

Meanwhile Godus is just a hollow husk, without any fun or soul.

See I am not neccesarily saying he deserves scorn for the overall quality of his recent games.. He deserves scorn for his handling of them.. His early access Godus game is a nightmare of false promises and what appears to be the fact that the company has completely abandoned it, after people have given him money based on the product he pitched.. If you go to the Steam forums of Godus, basically it is the consensus that the game is abandoned and the majority of backers are pissed..

Overall I would likely say Molyneux at the top, he has been in charge, or helped with some incredibly iconic games, and one of the dev studios that has produced some truely iconic games. He is off the bent now sadly, I don't know if he has lost his touch, or does not have the actual coding knowlage for modern games, but his ideas are good none the less, they just fizzle out. Godus however was unforgivable.

FOllowing him, I might pick Levine for the writing and ideas of his games, although each game he made after SS2 has seemed to be a downgrade, I kind of fear that we will see it Again. But I hope to be proven wrong.

Spector? Spector worked on some of my favorite games of all time, in some capacity, so hard to state his influence, but he did create one of my favorite games, for that I commend him, but outside of Deus Ex, I simply don't know what he did in the other games. If he had more hands on then I think, then he is higher then Levine without a doubt. He did sadly make the Epic Mickey games. Yeah those were none too good. He does have the best design philosophy of any of the above.