Sony is under investigation.

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Last_Lap

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#1 Last_Lap
Member since 2023 • 6078 Posts

Sony are trying to create a monopoly on where digital games are bought by restricting others from selling digital game codes, so games can only be bought from Sony's own marketplace. Yes people that is a monopoly.

I told people that this sort of shit would happen in the console space where the big 2 Sony & MS would try eliminate physical format for digital so they can have the only marketplace for games on their system and cut out game codes altogether. Well, this is the start, let's see where this goes.

Digital is the future you say, that future only benefits Sony & MS, and sooner or later Nintendo.

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Pedro

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#2 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 69530 Posts

So we are going to ignore the fact that digital games can be purchase outside of MS and Nintendo stores and on PC through multiple outlets? 🤔

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mrbojangles25

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#3 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58331 Posts

@Pedro said:

So we are going to ignore the fact that digital games can be purchase outside of MS and Nintendo stores and on PC through multiple outlets? 🤔

Yes, because...

@last_lap said:

...

I told people that this sort of shit would happen...

He told us, Pedro! HE TOLD US!!!!!!

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Last_Lap

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#4 Last_Lap
Member since 2023 • 6078 Posts

@Pedro: Maybe read the link before you post. That way you might not ignore the facts.

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Last_Lap

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#5 Last_Lap
Member since 2023 • 6078 Posts

@mrbojangles25: Hermits need not apply when it comes to this thread as no one is talking about PC like usual.

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adsparky

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#6 adsparky
Member since 2006 • 2567 Posts

I bought grim fandango for my ps4 years ago on humble bundle, didn't know they stopped doing that, I practically don't buy digital for the ps4 because in my country there is a tax for it and make them way more expensive than in the other platforms, weirdly enough when it comes to physical PS4 games tend to be cheaper.

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Pedro

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#7 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 69530 Posts

@last_lap said:

@Pedro: Maybe read the link before you post. That way you might not ignore the facts.

Odd, no facts were ignored except for the one that was given to you.🤷🏽‍♀️

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blaznwiipspman1

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#8  Edited By blaznwiipspman1
Member since 2007 • 16542 Posts

@last_lap: this is old news. Console manufacturers would absolutely love it if you bought their digital platform. I had ps5 digital for a few months, and seeing how terrible it was, the amount of scamming. I'd often see physical disc deals in store while the equivalent digital title was full price. I got sick of Sony bs, and on top of their garbage library, it was the last straw. I sold the ps5. Never buy digital.

Even MS trying to scam people hard with digital gamepass and digital series S that's 300 cheaper than the series X. Oh and MS also makes it much harder to actually find a series X, something that isn't an accident. They want to pigeon hole you into digital and turn us into the pc losers, ie the type that get scammed easily into buying 15 year old games like gta v and tlou1 for full price or for $30 on "sale" again and again. Or buying sloppy second ports of 5 year old games. Pc gamers are really a sad bunch, that will bend over for anything.

Console gamers need to fight this nonsense with everything they have.

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Last_Lap

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#9 Last_Lap
Member since 2023 • 6078 Posts

@Pedro: This is about a single country at present, and if allowed could set a precedence around the world where the only place to buy digital games would be on Sony/MS/Nintendo marketplaces thus creating a monopoly, you know the thing you state you hate.

Nothing to do with PC, no need to mention it.

Nowhere does it say the whole world can't buy codes, so again no need to mention that you can still buy codes elsewhere.

Glad we cleared that up. Now try again.

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Last_Lap

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#10 Last_Lap
Member since 2023 • 6078 Posts

@blaznwiipspman1: It's not old news, though. Yes, they want you to download from their marketplaces. However, they have not stopped retailers from selling digital codes until recently, at least on Sony's end.

Sony are trying to create a monopoly on where digital games are bought, and if the only place is on their marketplace, then they have created a monopoly.

But yes, they companies must be held to account to allow consumers to purchase how they like. This is dangerous, and I hope they get slapped hard over this.

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Pedro

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#11 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 69530 Posts

@last_lap said:

@Pedro: This is about a single country at present, and if allowed could set a precedence around the world where the only place to buy digital games would be on Sony/MS/Nintendo marketplaces thus creating a monopoly, you know the thing you state you hate.

Nothing to do with PC, no need to mention it.

Nowhere does it say the whole world can't buy codes, so again no need to mention that you can still buy codes elsewhere.

Glad we cleared that up. Now try again.

You are participating in this strange fearmonger. Ignoring the democratization of purchasing games on PC is rather silly since it is the platform that is almost entirely digital. You also continue to ignore the fact that was given to you that MS and Nintendo allow for the purchasing of their games outside of their built in stores. MS transition from Windows Store only for PC to support for Steam.

Nothing in my comment talked about what the whole world can and cannot do. You were given the fact that both Nintendo and MS do not practice the limitations that Sony has implemented to demonstrate the foolish claim that the future of digital is the promotion of a monopoly. Are you done with this silliness?🤔

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lamprey263

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#12 lamprey263
Member since 2006 • 44570 Posts

I'm curious how this is anti-consumer or considered as such. Seems to me ones that would hurt more are any retailers that can get a cut selling them. I'd imagine as far as pricing goes it would be identical to what they sell for on digital stores on consoles themselves.

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Silentchief

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#13 Silentchief
Member since 2021 • 6888 Posts

I still buy physical 🤷

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Last_Lap

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#14 Last_Lap
Member since 2023 • 6078 Posts

@Pedro: Geez I'm not going to partake in talking to you about this. I mean you can't even comprehend what the ramifications of this action could be.

Only buying games from one store is a monopoly, for someone who supposedly hates monopolies, you don't seem to understand how they work.

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Last_Lap

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#15 Last_Lap
Member since 2023 • 6078 Posts

@lamprey263: Only having one place to buy games is a monopoly and leads to price rises and the like. With retailers, they can sell the codes a bit cheaper because they sell other items akso, the consumer can price match etc, and thus creates competion for the consumers benefit. Having multiple options is better than just one option wouldn't you agree?

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Last_Lap

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#16  Edited By Last_Lap
Member since 2023 • 6078 Posts

@silentchief: So do I, but what happens when Sony/MS kill physical, and all you're left with is buying from Sony's marketplace at their prices?

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DaVillain

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#17  Edited By DaVillain  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 56131 Posts

Kinda old news as this was reported almost a month ago but hey, here we are.

Anyway, this isn't about prices, it's about how you can't buy Sony games through digital on Amazon, GameStop, or any storefronts for that matter anymore. It's been like this for a very long time but here's the crazy part. I'm surprised it's taken this long to start investigating Sony. (Not that I expect them to do anything about it)

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Pedro

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#18 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 69530 Posts

@last_lap said:

@Pedro: Geez I'm not going to partake in talking to you about this. I mean you can't even comprehend what the ramifications of this action could be.

Only buying games from one store is a monopoly, for someone who supposedly hates monopolies, you don't seem to understand how they work.

There is no comprehension issue. Sony participating in this practice is not a monopoly. It is anti-consumer but it is not a monopoly. Knowing the difference is important. Throwing around the term monopoly has become rather common place. As others have pointed out, Sony has been doing this for some time now and yet the practice has not rolled over to MS and Nintendo despite your implication that it will. Limiting purchasing options for the consumer has been challenged in the US with the Epic and Apple lawsuit. Making an asinine claim that digital is to blame is where you stumbled. But, then again only you have the capacity to comprehend the ramifications of this action.🙃

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Howmakewood

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#19 Howmakewood
Member since 2015 • 7705 Posts

@lamprey263: there's competition on digital pricing on PC, Valve let's publishers generate steam keys for their games and sell those where ever they please, Valve makes nothing out of those sales

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Last_Lap

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#21 Last_Lap
Member since 2023 • 6078 Posts

@Pedro: If Sony gets its way and the only place to buy digital games is their marketplace, then yes it will create a monopoly. Pretty simple concept, not simple enough it seems 🤷‍♂️

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DaVillain

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#22 DaVillain  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 56131 Posts

@last_lap said:

@Pedro: If Sony gets its way and the only place to buy digital games is their marketplace, then yes it will create a monopoly. Pretty simple concept, not simple enough it seems 🤷‍♂️

That's not entirely accurate. At times, I don't need to go to Sony's storefront to buy their games digital. CDKey site do in fact sell PS5 games digital and they can cost a lot less than what Sony is offering. Not exactly what I would call an monopoly.

Hell I can always wait for a sale as Sony does in fact do discounts on their own storefront digital games from time to time similar to Steam Summer/Winter sales.

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KathaarianCode

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#23 KathaarianCode
Member since 2022 • 3414 Posts

Regulators should push for competing storefronts on consoles.

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Pedro

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#24  Edited By Pedro
Member since 2002 • 69530 Posts

@last_lap said:

@Pedro: If Sony gets its way and the only place to buy digital games is their marketplace, then yes it will create a monopoly. Pretty simple concept, not simple enough it seems 🤷‍♂️

That would not fall under the traditional application of a monopoly. It would simply equate to Sony being the only avenue for acquiring digital products on their platform in the same manner that the only way to develop games for their system is to pay Sony to develop for their platform. Keyword is their. Hopefully that is easy enough for even you to understand.🙃

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Pedro

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#25 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 69530 Posts

@kathaariancode said:

Regulators should push for competing storefronts on consoles.

They definitely can but note that it would also break the business of consoles in which the platform holder gets a cut from every transaction. Which may remove the incentive of being a platform holder. But, that may democratize the business as a whole.😮

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Litchie

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#26  Edited By Litchie
Member since 2003 • 34618 Posts

If Sony tries to be the only ones able to sell digital codes for their games in order to keep the prices high, just sounds like regular shitty Sony trying out new ways to be more shitty. This is far from the shittiest thing they've done or will do. Luckily, I don't give a **** about Sony or their games.

Nintendo is the only company I care about here, acually. And would they do something I don't like, I can just use my PC to circumvent it.

Happy gaming everybody. **** Sony.

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#27  Edited By loudheadphones
Member since 2023 • 1064 Posts

@last_lap said:

Sony are trying to create a monopoly on where digital games are bought by restricting others from selling digital game codes, so games can only be bought from Sony's own marketplace. Yes people that is a monopoly.

I told people that this sort of shit would happen in the console space where the big 2 Sony & MS would try eliminate physical format for digital so they can have the only marketplace for games on their system and cut out game codes altogether. Well, this is the start, let's see where this goes.

Digital is the future you say, that future only benefits Sony & MS, and sooner or later Nintendo.

You are using more than a month old info and creating a thread about it??

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lamprey263

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#28 lamprey263
Member since 2006 • 44570 Posts

@last_lap: "Only having one place to buy games is a monopoly and leads to price rises and the like. With retailers, they can sell the codes a bit cheaper because they sell other items akso, the consumer can price match etc, and thus creates competion for the consumers benefit. Having multiple options is better than just one option wouldn't you agree?"

I've never once seen a retailers sell digital codes for games for less than what the console stores sell them for. They simply sell the same games the console stores do at the exact same prices. The retailer are simply working in tandem with the console digital stores to create vouchers that the customer takes right back to their console to redeem. There's no cost benefit to the consumer for a third party selling game codes.

Price matches for physical media don't work the same way for digital items. The way physical distribution works is any adjustment to MSRP gets refunded through the distributor/publisher chain, and price matches and negotiated sales as well get refunded through the distribution/publisher chain. This requires publishers to keep money on hand for MSRP adjustments, sales, and inventory liquidation. Retailer don't eat those costs themselves when they have sales, price match, or the MSRP drops. The publishers reimburse them for all that. If say one store has a game on sale, that's negotiated with the publisher and the retailer gets reimbursed by the publisher for what they sell. And any store that price matches that other store also gets reimbursed by the same publisher, that's why lots of stores do this, they just don't eat the costs themselves. Even when inventory is liquidated, the retailer gets reimbursed for it by the publisher, publisher takes their word the retailer destroyed that inventory because it's too costly to ship back.

That is why physical sells cheaper than digital, because lingering physical copies are a cost liability and publishers don't want their own digital sales undermining their financial liabilities created by lingering inventory. They won't or shouldn't price match a digital code for same price as say the cost of a physical copy, they won't be reimbursed by the publisher for doing so. There's also isn't going to be any digital price matching of other digital retailers because, again, all they do is create vouchers for what's available on PSN for the exact same price as it's available on PSN.

On the other hand, the argument against this is probably best argued from the position of retailers. They can likely get a cut of the codes they do sell, but the retailers being prohibited from selling them will have a harm on their ability to conduct business. But it won't make a lick of difference to the consumer price on that end. And given the shifting balance these days with the market in general, with digital dominating physical sales, it really hurts gaming retailers to be left out of selling digital codes.

There's a separate issue also, less from the retailers selling codes, but with publishers. I have read that publishers sometimes fight with the platforms to have their digital prices reduced, and/or put their games on sale. From what I recall, the platform holders sometimes don't want some games from other publishers interfering with the sales of some newly released games they're trying to preserve sales momentum for, and are stubborn about allowing for sales and MSRP price drops. If true, that is an issue that relates to games prices, and it does come down to decisions made by the platform. Generally though, I don't think it's the publisher who keeps prices artificially high. Naturally, the market saturation will compel price drops on its own. So there is something to be said about the platforms keeping the game prices high, but it has nothing to do with the ability for third party retailers to sell codes.

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Last_Lap

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#29 Last_Lap
Member since 2023 • 6078 Posts

@loudheadphones: Yeah, because if we waited for cows to criticise Sony we would waiting forever. And your only post it to criticse me that the info is a month old, thanks for proving my point.

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Last_Lap

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#30 Last_Lap
Member since 2023 • 6078 Posts

@lamprey263: I'm not American, son I don't know how things work over there, but codes do get reduced in price over here.

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lamprey263

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#31 lamprey263
Member since 2006 • 44570 Posts

@howmakewood: "there's competition on digital pricing on PC, Valve let's publishers generate steam keys for their games and sell those where ever they please, Valve makes nothing out of those sales"

That's nice. But that's hardly an excuse for any console platform holders to allow publishers to do the same. No major regulator is going to hold a console platform to such a standard.

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MysticalDonut

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#32  Edited By MysticalDonut
Member since 2021 • 2504 Posts

Digital sucks. Digital only consoles suck. GamePass, PS Plus Premium, all game subscription services suck. Don't vote away your rights with your wallet- always buy physical unless you absolutely cannot. The only valid reasons to be playing a digital copy of a game is 1.) there was no physical release and 2.) the game is 90% off or something as compared to the physical copy.

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deactivated-660c2894dc19c

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#33 deactivated-660c2894dc19c
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@lamprey263 said:

@howmakewood: "there's competition on digital pricing on PC, Valve let's publishers generate steam keys for their games and sell those where ever they please, Valve makes nothing out of those sales"

That's nice. But that's hardly an excuse for any console platform holders to allow publishers to do the same. No major regulator is going to hold a console platform to such a standard.

The EU may

It should be pointed that this DMA doesn't apply to consoles. Yet. The EU is more worried about Apple and Google right now, but at some point, if noice gets big enough, they may start looking into consoles as well.

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uninspiredcup

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#34 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 58996 Posts

This could change everything.

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loudheadphones

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#35  Edited By loudheadphones
Member since 2023 • 1064 Posts
@last_lap said:

@loudheadphones: Yeah, because if we waited for cows to criticise Sony we would waiting forever. And your only post it to criticse me that the info is a month old, thanks for proving my point.

Lol. I proved only that Xbox peeps really needs some desperate negative news about Sony after weeks and weeks of destructive bad news for Xbox.

Also,. Mind you that in Romania not only Sony has digital market, but Nintendo and MS too.

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Pedro

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#36 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 69530 Posts

@Icarian said:

The EU may

It should be pointed that this DMA doesn't apply to consoles. Yet. The EU is more worried about Apple and Google right now, but at some point, if noice gets big enough, they may start looking into consoles as well.

Interesting article.

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#37 Randy_Lahey
Member since 2022 • 1803 Posts

@last_lap:

nice topic OP. I guess since MS is on trial for anti-competitive behaviour you needed to dig deep to find something for SonyToo. Lmao

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Pedro

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#38 Pedro
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KathaarianCode

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#39 KathaarianCode
Member since 2022 • 3414 Posts

They should throw Sony in jail!

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#41 lebanese_boy
Member since 2003 • 18036 Posts

@Pedro said:

They definitely can but note that it would also break the business of consoles in which the platform holder gets a cut from every transaction. Which may remove the incentive of being a platform holder. But, that may democratize the business as a whole.😮

I think an ideal scenario (as a first step) would be that MS/Sony/Nintendo stay in control of their stores on their platforms but that third-parties would all be free to sell codes wherever they want at the price they want without any cuts to the platform holders as long as its outside the platforms' "main stores".

This could potentially result in lower prices for consumers and help pave the way for a true "democratization" of the business.

I believe we're already seeing something similar on PC, although I'm not sure if Valve gets any cuts for codes sold outside of Steam.

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Nonstop-Madness

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#42  Edited By Nonstop-Madness
Member since 2008 • 12304 Posts

Good. It's honestly annoying that you have to buy PSN credits as opposed to a digital code of a game.

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#43 R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 46326 Posts

@kathaariancode said:

They should throw Sony in jail!

And then Susan Sarandon will come in and try and get Sony out.

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Last_Lap

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#44 Last_Lap
Member since 2023 • 6078 Posts

@mysticaldonut: I agree 100% but digital folks are too far gone to realise this.

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Last_Lap

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#45  Edited By Last_Lap
Member since 2023 • 6078 Posts

@randy_lahey: So you're against MS being anti-competitive (I did lump them in here with Sony) but if Sony is trying to create a monopoly on where games are sold on its platform you don't care.

Don't come at me because you're incapable of shitting on your mother/father in Sony for its own anti-competitive practises.

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Last_Lap

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#46 Last_Lap
Member since 2023 • 6078 Posts

@loudheadphones: Are you really that clueless?

Yes MS & Nintendo have digital store fronts, but Sony is the only one (at present) stopping retailers from selling digital game codes, thus forcing people to their store front in hopes of cresting a monopoly one day on where games on its platform are sold.

Heck I don't even know why I'm bothering with you because you think Starfield is an exclusive 🤦‍♂️

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Last_Lap

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#47  Edited By Last_Lap
Member since 2023 • 6078 Posts

@Pedro: If you can only buy games from Sony's marketplace for Sony's console, then yes that would make it a monopoly for Sony.

It's pretty simple to understand, but for some reason you can't seem to 🤷‍♂️

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ENI232

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#48 ENI232
Member since 2020 • 1007 Posts

If the future of video games is streaming/digital only I probably would never buy a console ever again to play a video game on. I would probably buy older consoles and games to entertain myself with. Video games will turn into a joke if that happens.

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Pedro

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#49 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 69530 Posts
@last_lap said:

@Pedro: If you can only buy games from Sony's marketplace for Sony's console, then yes that would make it a monopoly for Sony.

It's pretty simple to understand, but for some reason you can't seem to 🤷‍♂️

That is the nature of console gaming. The platform holder exclusively controls access to the platform. Whether it is digital or physical. You can only make games that are authorized by Sony, you can only play games that are authorized by Sony and you can only buy games for the system that are authorized by Sony. Replace Sony with Xbox, Nintendo, Apple and Google. Marketplaces which are under the full control of the platform holder are not classified as monopoly. Please feel free to provide a definition recognized by law, that deems this practice as a monopoly. Note that this issue is being contested as anti-competitive in the courts but not under the clause of a monopoly.

It's pretty simple to understand, but for some reason you can't seem to 🤷‍♂️

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Last_Lap

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#50  Edited By Last_Lap
Member since 2023 • 6078 Posts

@Pedro: We're done here Pedro as I'm not going to post the same thing over & over in the hope you figure it out.