yeahhh nothing can beat PC resolution.
But when you want to play on a BIG screen in the living room to get that good atmosphere. HDTV is where its at.
SHEEP.. all you do is detest and bash HD.
This topic is locked from further discussion.
[QUOTE="Trading_Zoner"]I play in HD and I only spent 25 bucks on my 20 inch CRT monitor. 360 has an adapter so you can use it on a PC monitor. ALOT of people do this. Not just me.foxhound_fox
But why should I have to pay $500 and $700 (CAD) for consoles that can play HD and then have to spend more money on a TV? What is the point in having HD on a console when it is incomparable to PC levels and yet costs nearly just as much?
I played about 5 hours of Gears of War last night on a 20" SDTV and was playing the game because it was fun, not because it looked amazing. And on the SDTV there was no jaggies.
Did I not just prove that you didn't have to?
I PLAY MY XBOX 360 ON A PC MONITOR.
/ruining all sheep arguments.
and what do you mean incomparable to PC levels?
Xbox 360 has a maximum resolution of 1920 by 1080.
I have a decent rig and I don't play games on resolutions that high.
Not always. Try playing a rhythm game or frantic SHMUP on a HDTV. It's much, much worse due to the delay.[QUOTE="springz300"]HDTV>>>>>SDTV.Hoffgod
It depends on the user really. HDTV may be better for you, but not for me.
Delay only exist on HDTVS without a game mode that are fed a 480i signal. Simply set your PS2, Gamecube, or Xbox to output the game in 480p - as a surprising number of older games support this - and the delay will be *gone*. Guitar Hero in 720p on the 360 has *zero* delay, Guitar Hero 1 on the PS2 has delay (480i only) however Guitar Hero 2 on the PS2 support 480p - no delay. You're using poor software design as an excuse to avoid HDTV? Strange. In fact, if we look at a good software designer (say, Nintendo, sheep can agree on that, right?) they had the sense to make the vast majority of the Gamecube library support 480p. Gamecube / Wii owners don't have to worry about going over to an HDTV, their old games will work fine.[QUOTE="ssbfalco"][QUOTE="springz300"]HDTV>>>>>SDTV..
Sheep get over it.
Although HDTV price>>>>SDTV price.
HDtv prices will drop continously from here on out as it is the new standard.
Trading_Zoner
Good, you used the word standard correctly, "new standard."
And PC Resoultion>>>>>>>>>HDTV resoulution
which is why I play my 360 in a Monitor.
why couldn't Wii have HD on a monitor?
360 can't output 2560 x 1600...
[QUOTE="Trading_Zoner"]I play in HD and I only spent 25 bucks on my 20 inch CRT monitor. 360 has an adapter so you can use it on a PC monitor. ALOT of people do this. Not just me.foxhound_fox
But why should I have to pay $500 and $700 (CAD) for consoles that can play HD and then have to spend more money on a TV? What is the point in having HD on a console when it is incomparable to PC levels and yet costs nearly just as much?
I played about 5 hours of Gears of War last night on a 20" SDTV and was playing the game because it was fun, not because it looked amazing. And on the SDTV there was no jaggies.
Of course if a game is fun then that is normally the main selling point. Let's not forget that having great visuals adds a lot to the game and the Wii did nothing for us in temrs of visuals.
Not always. Try playing a rhythm game or frantic SHMUP on a HDTV. It's much, much worse due to the delay.[QUOTE="springz300"]HDTV>>>>>SDTV.Hoffgod
It depends on the user really. HDTV may be better for you, but not for me.
Most games, like GHII for the 360, fix that with their own built in system.
[QUOTE="Trading_Zoner"][QUOTE="ssbfalco"][QUOTE="springz300"]HDTV>>>>>SDTV..
Sheep get over it.
Although HDTV price>>>>SDTV price.
HDtv prices will drop continously from here on out as it is the new standard.
ssbfalco
Good, you used the word standard correctly, "new standard."
And PC Resoultion>>>>>>>>>HDTV resoulution
which is why I play my 360 in a Monitor.
why couldn't Wii have HD on a monitor?
360 can't output 2560 x 1600...
no but it CAN do 1920 by 1080.
and like i said above I have a pretty nice rig (X1900 256MB 1GB RAM CORE 2 E6300) and I don't play new games on those resolutions...
Starting with your title, "all you do is destest and bash HD". i havent seen 1 person say hd sucks. we just said its not what gaming is about.
Now the sentence where you said "I've never seen any1 bash new technology". Havent you ever been in system wars? no1 is bashing hd, everyone is bashing motion sensing which is NEW TECHNOLOGY.
/thread
I dont understand you sheep.
Technology is evolving and TV is getting better picture quality.
Who DOESNT want HD?
It seems Nintendo has brainwashed your minds to think HD isTABOO or something.
Why would you be against something new and improved. You support wii right? Kind of ironic.
It's STANDARD. Live with it. Ive never seen people bash new technology. If you can't afford it just admit it.
And im pretty sure the only people who bash it simply Have never played games on one, watched a movie on one, simply can't afford one, or are just nintendo fanboys.
springz300
That was weak and uninformed.
[QUOTE="springz300"][QUOTE="VGobbsesser"]HD isn't standard.Not many people have them.tocool340
HD is standard. I dont know what country you're from.
I'm from America and not many people around here have HD T.V's...
Starting with your title, "all you do is destest and bash HD". i havent seen 1 person say hd sucks. we just said its not what gaming is about.
Now the sentence where you said "I've never seen any1 bash new technology". Havent you ever been in system wars? no1 is bashing hd, everyone is bashing motion sensing which is NEW TECHNOLOGY.
/thread
fudg__er
I think poeple bash the fact that in most games that are out for Wii, the motion controls RUIN the game.
I dont understand you sheep.
Technology is evolving and TV is getting better picture quality.
Who DOESNT want HD?
It seems Nintendo has brainwashed your minds to think HD isTABOO or something.
Why would you be against something new and improved. You support wii right? Kind of ironic.
It's STANDARD. Live with it. Ive never seen people bash new technology. If you can't afford it just admit it.
And im pretty sure the only people who bash it simply Have never played games on one, watched a movie on one, simply can't afford one, or are just nintendo fanboys.
springz300
[QUOTE="MellowMight"][QUOTE="springz300"][QUOTE="VGobbsesser"]HD isn't standard.Not many people have them.springz300
HD is standard. I dont know what country you're from.
HD is not a standard yet. And im a sheep and I have a HDTV. A verycheap one but its still HD.
HD IS standard. Go to your local electronics store. you will see a very small section for SDTV.
Unless you're not from America.
For that store and most stores, its what you will see trying to sell, but as far as HD being STANDARD(as in in homes and being used by families) its still not there yet...
You are trying to say two diff things. Stnadard as in store displays and standard as in actually in the homes is two different things. WOW...You ARE SMART!
[QUOTE="subrosian"]1. HDTV *is* the new standard, take a look at your local Best Buy, Circuit City, Target, or even Walmart. What do you see in the television aisle?
2. Cost is no excuse - I'm a poor college student and I have an HDTV, $500 for a 27" ~ 32" set is not impossible, it's the price of a Wii with 5 games, something most Nintendo fans were able to afford. 37" HDTVs start around $650 for 720p and $1000 for 1080p. Going to $1000 lets you have a 42" HDTV or a 720p projector (max screen size 100"). The picture quality difference for going progressive-scan and widescreen, even for a Wii, is huge. If you haven't played a Wii on a 100" widescreen, well, how can you say you've really played a Wii?
3. The HD-bashers are mostly coming from the Nintendo camp, and none of them are coming from people who actually *own* an HDTV. Once you have had one a few months you won't be able to go back... I know I can't, and I've started eyeing larger sets enviously.
4. There is really *no* reason to bash HD. My 27" set was $500... yet a 20.1" widescreen monitor can be had for $200 or less, and will give you 1680 x 1050 resolution, which is quite frankly fine for PS3 / 360 / PC gaming. The Wii is a bit tricker since it requires component inputs, but a 23" sceptre HD-monitor runs $250, and is perfect for Wii gaming.
5. Interlaced content (480i) is dead. CRT manufacturing is over... LCD has put it to rest due to being thinner, lighter, and supporting much higher resolutions. Quality CRTs don't exist anymore - they're big, bulky, bad for the environment (tons of lead), and expensive to ship. With JIT manufacturing the way it is, you won't see a company like Sony make another CRT. Interlacing makes content have input delays on non-CRT sets, and it destroys picture quality. An interlace signal has only 60% of the apparent resolution of a non-interlaced image. That means going from 480p to 480i with a Wii, you're losing picture quality. Nintendo worked hard to put little flourishes in games like Twilight Princess and Super Paper Mario - by running these games in 480i you're tossing away that detail. There is no reason for any gamer, Nintendo fan or otherwise, to support the continued existance of 480i sets.
6.HD is needed - maybe if you're from a generation that still things Pong, Internet Explorer, and Windows 95 are bastions of the computing world. Nintendo had the brains to support the absolutely rockin' Opera browser, but not to slap a VGA, DVI, or HDMI port on the Wii? We know the Wii graphics card could easily have supported higher resolutions in things like the Web Browser, which would have made it a lot more functional. Browsing at 720x480? Difficult! HD isn't just for games, it's for all the little other functions to become *better* - view your photos with the same quality on screen as they would have as kodak glossies, play interactive games like Little Big Planet, and let the artist space for details, flourishes, and brush strokes. Have you seen the Forza 2 car customizer, where people can put the *box art* from Wind Waker on the hood of a car? Imagine being able to have that level of customization with a Mii. An HD screen lets you have details that SD can never have, and it makes possible a whole new era of games. Why should Mario Paint on the Wii have similar limitations to Mario Paint on SNES? Why shouldn't you be able to make artwork with it that you could print out *poster size* and be proud of?
bryehngeocef
Too much fact and logic for System Wars :P
You made a whole whack of valid points that will most likely be ignored by people.
I just wanted to add the fact that I have a 27" CRT that uses more power in standby mode than my 32" LCD HDTV does when it's on. CRT is terrible for energy costs. Not that most of these kids actually pay bills or anything...
I'm dissapointed - the only response I get to a logical post showing why HD is needed, and affordable, and it's from someone who agrees with me. Yeah, CRTs suck stupid amounts of power when they're off, though I agree, there are plenty of people on these forums who haven't paid an electric bill... I lived with some of them for a year... how is it possible for a 1000 sq ft apartment to have $350 power bills - oh you guys run the dryer three times in a row to dry a single pair of jeans, use the dishwasher twice a day, and leave your three computers on 24/7...
I'm dissapointed - the only response I get to a logical post showing why HD is needed, and affordable, and it's from someone who agrees with me. Yeah, CRTs suck stupid amounts of power when they're off, though I agree, there are plenty of people on these forums who haven't paid an electric bill... I lived with some of them for a year... how is it possible for a 1000 sq ft apartment to have $350 power bills - oh you guys run the dryer three times in a row to dry a single pair of jeans, use the dishwasher twice a day, and leave your three computers on 24/7... subrosian
I must admit that I'm guilty of leaving my computer on all the time, but I compensated by blowing a bunch of money on those new florescent light bulbs for all of my lamps.
Something else I loved about making the switch to LCD was the lack of the high pitched whine you can hear when you fire up a CRT TV. Some people can't hear it, but for those of us that can, it's grating. May as well be a dog whistle.
[QUOTE="Hoffgod"]Not always. Try playing a rhythm game or frantic SHMUP on a HDTV. It's much, much worse due to the delay.[QUOTE="springz300"]HDTV>>>>>SDTV.LTomlinson21
It depends on the user really. HDTV may be better for you, but not for me.
Most games, like GHII for the 360, fix that with their own built in system. Actually, only the more recent games do. Say I want to play Gradius V on my PS2 or R-Type III on the SNES. There's no way to account for the delay. I'm not just looking at recent games. Imagine DDR with an HDTV delay. Horrifying.What sheep has said that HD isn't needed???FireEmblem_Man
Every one of them.
[QUOTE="LTomlinson21"][QUOTE="Hoffgod"]Not always. Try playing a rhythm game or frantic SHMUP on a HDTV. It's much, much worse due to the delay.[QUOTE="springz300"]HDTV>>>>>SDTV.Hoffgod
It depends on the user really. HDTV may be better for you, but not for me.
Most games, like GHII for the 360, fix that with their own built in system. Actually, only the more recent games do. Say I want to play Gradius V on my PS2 or R-Type III on the SNES. There's no way to account for the delay. I'm not just looking at recent games. Imagine DDR with an HDTV delay. Horrifying.My LCD only has 5ms response time, but yeah, rhythm games can be tough if you can't learn to compensate. Although Boom Boom Rocket on the 360 is the only one I've tried so far.
[QUOTE="bryehngeocef"][QUOTE="subrosian"]1. HDTV *is* the new standard, take a look at your local Best Buy, Circuit City, Target, or even Walmart. What do you see in the television aisle?
2. Cost is no excuse - I'm a poor college student and I have an HDTV, $500 for a 27" ~ 32" set is not impossible, it's the price of a Wii with 5 games, something most Nintendo fans were able to afford. 37" HDTVs start around $650 for 720p and $1000 for 1080p. Going to $1000 lets you have a 42" HDTV or a 720p projector (max screen size 100"). The picture quality difference for going progressive-scan and widescreen, even for a Wii, is huge. If you haven't played a Wii on a 100" widescreen, well, how can you say you've really played a Wii?
3. The HD-bashers are mostly coming from the Nintendo camp, and none of them are coming from people who actually *own* an HDTV. Once you have had one a few months you won't be able to go back... I know I can't, and I've started eyeing larger sets enviously.
4. There is really *no* reason to bash HD. My 27" set was $500... yet a 20.1" widescreen monitor can be had for $200 or less, and will give you 1680 x 1050 resolution, which is quite frankly fine for PS3 / 360 / PC gaming. The Wii is a bit tricker since it requires component inputs, but a 23" sceptre HD-monitor runs $250, and is perfect for Wii gaming.
5. Interlaced content (480i) is dead. CRT manufacturing is over... LCD has put it to rest due to being thinner, lighter, and supporting much higher resolutions. Quality CRTs don't exist anymore - they're big, bulky, bad for the environment (tons of lead), and expensive to ship. With JIT manufacturing the way it is, you won't see a company like Sony make another CRT. Interlacing makes content have input delays on non-CRT sets, and it destroys picture quality. An interlace signal has only 60% of the apparent resolution of a non-interlaced image. That means going from 480p to 480i with a Wii, you're losing picture quality. Nintendo worked hard to put little flourishes in games like Twilight Princess and Super Paper Mario - by running these games in 480i you're tossing away that detail. There is no reason for any gamer, Nintendo fan or otherwise, to support the continued existance of 480i sets.
6.HD is needed - maybe if you're from a generation that still things Pong, Internet Explorer, and Windows 95 are bastions of the computing world. Nintendo had the brains to support the absolutely rockin' Opera browser, but not to slap a VGA, DVI, or HDMI port on the Wii? We know the Wii graphics card could easily have supported higher resolutions in things like the Web Browser, which would have made it a lot more functional. Browsing at 720x480? Difficult! HD isn't just for games, it's for all the little other functions to become *better* - view your photos with the same quality on screen as they would have as kodak glossies, play interactive games like Little Big Planet, and let the artist space for details, flourishes, and brush strokes. Have you seen the Forza 2 car customizer, where people can put the *box art* from Wind Waker on the hood of a car? Imagine being able to have that level of customization with a Mii. An HD screen lets you have details that SD can never have, and it makes possible a whole new era of games. Why should Mario Paint on the Wii have similar limitations to Mario Paint on SNES? Why shouldn't you be able to make artwork with it that you could print out *poster size* and be proud of?
subrosian
Too much fact and logic for System Wars :P
You made a whole whack of valid points that will most likely be ignored by people.
I just wanted to add the fact that I have a 27" CRT that uses more power in standby mode than my 32" LCD HDTV does when it's on. CRT is terrible for energy costs. Not that most of these kids actually pay bills or anything...
I'm dissapointed - the only response I get to a logical post showing why HD is needed, and affordable, and it's from someone who agrees with me. Yeah, CRTs suck stupid amounts of power when they're off, though I agree, there are plenty of people on these forums who haven't paid an electric bill... I lived with some of them for a year... how is it possible for a 1000 sq ft apartment to have $350 power bills - oh you guys run the dryer three times in a row to dry a single pair of jeans, use the dishwasher twice a day, and leave your three computers on 24/7...
I was going to respond, but it would be largely ignored, and I started to feel a bit lazy at this point (and I should be working on a website I've been assigned to do...)
But I'll pick out a few random points (I know, it will seem like I'm ignoring them, but I read it all) And I know I will go off on some kind of tangent and ignore even more points than I wanted to, but whatever...
First (I did say random), It is found that the Wii's Resolution is Software limited in the SDK (according to "leaked" info from devs), so theoretically, they could unlock that in the future for certian applications, such as the web browser, however it's highly unlikley...
Also, Many want to discount 480p, but it really isn't too bad (I'm assuming that you were kinda getting at this). Certain games on Wii and GC were able to show even greater detail than you could see in 480i, but it's generally only apparant on a TV that supports that resolution well... I do have one of the early adopter CRT HDTV's and it's upscalling capabilities are excellent such that any resolution looks good on it, but if comparing a 480i input with a 480p input, the difference is dramatic...
Again, the Wii's aim is different than most think it is. It's a simple gaming machine with little exta gimmicks (browser, photo channel, miis) to distract people for a bit and make the product seem more interesting. Everyone does it. Vista, PS3, etc... Nintendo wanted from the start to make a console that would make them money despite being an experiment. Fact. And it is... I don't know if they even expected this much success with the Wii...
The Wii is an experiment for the Wiimote and motion sensing control in general, and I'd say it's a success... They were the guinea pigs for the industry, if the concept failed, the industry would know what not to try. If it succedes, the industry may see a good use for it...
Just like the DS, it was an experiment as they explicitly stated that the DS was a third tier of consoles, (Home, GB, DS), but it turned out successful and they don't seem to have any plans to continue the GB line...
They promised already that their next console will be in HD after the early success, and although it's just pure speculation on my part, it will have the same prowress as the next generation of consoles will, and that proves that even Nintendo doesn't just ignore HD. Just that they had a different battle to fight this time around.
They need to get themselves popular again so that they can actually spend more money on their next console, maybe take a loss, and guarrantee themselves a greater share of thrid party games, and gamers in general, guarranteeing a profit when all is said and done...
I dont understand you sheep.
Technology is evolving and TV is getting better picture quality.
Who DOESNT want HD?
It seems Nintendo has brainwashed your minds to think HD isTABOO or something.
Why would you be against something new and improved. You support wii right? Kind of ironic.
It's STANDARD. Live with it. Ive never seen people bash new technology. If you can't afford it just admit it.
And im pretty sure the only people who bash it simply Have never played games on one, watched a movie on one, simply can't afford one, or are just nintendo fanboys.
springz300
springz300 all you do is make theards claiming sheep do this or sheep do that... Sheep never bash HD, they say its not needed or it cost to much.. Why don't you just sit down for once kid, no one wants to hear your rant.
[QUOTE="VGobbsesser"]HD isn't standard.Not many people have them.springz300
HD is standard. I dont know what country you're from.
what is your difinition by standard?[QUOTE="subrosian"][QUOTE="bryehngeocef"][QUOTE="subrosian"]1. HDTV *is* the new standard, take a look at your local Best Buy, Circuit City, Target, or even Walmart. What do you see in the television aisle?
2. Cost is no excuse - I'm a poor college student and I have an HDTV, $500 for a 27" ~ 32" set is not impossible, it's the price of a Wii with 5 games, something most Nintendo fans were able to afford. 37" HDTVs start around $650 for 720p and $1000 for 1080p. Going to $1000 lets you have a 42" HDTV or a 720p projector (max screen size 100"). The picture quality difference for going progressive-scan and widescreen, even for a Wii, is huge. If you haven't played a Wii on a 100" widescreen, well, how can you say you've really played a Wii?
3. The HD-bashers are mostly coming from the Nintendo camp, and none of them are coming from people who actually *own* an HDTV. Once you have had one a few months you won't be able to go back... I know I can't, and I've started eyeing larger sets enviously.
4. There is really *no* reason to bash HD. My 27" set was $500... yet a 20.1" widescreen monitor can be had for $200 or less, and will give you 1680 x 1050 resolution, which is quite frankly fine for PS3 / 360 / PC gaming. The Wii is a bit tricker since it requires component inputs, but a 23" sceptre HD-monitor runs $250, and is perfect for Wii gaming.
5. Interlaced content (480i) is dead. CRT manufacturing is over... LCD has put it to rest due to being thinner, lighter, and supporting much higher resolutions. Quality CRTs don't exist anymore - they're big, bulky, bad for the environment (tons of lead), and expensive to ship. With JIT manufacturing the way it is, you won't see a company like Sony make another CRT. Interlacing makes content have input delays on non-CRT sets, and it destroys picture quality. An interlace signal has only 60% of the apparent resolution of a non-interlaced image. That means going from 480p to 480i with a Wii, you're losing picture quality. Nintendo worked hard to put little flourishes in games like Twilight Princess and Super Paper Mario - by running these games in 480i you're tossing away that detail. There is no reason for any gamer, Nintendo fan or otherwise, to support the continued existance of 480i sets.
6.HD is needed - maybe if you're from a generation that still things Pong, Internet Explorer, and Windows 95 are bastions of the computing world. Nintendo had the brains to support the absolutely rockin' Opera browser, but not to slap a VGA, DVI, or HDMI port on the Wii? We know the Wii graphics card could easily have supported higher resolutions in things like the Web Browser, which would have made it a lot more functional. Browsing at 720x480? Difficult! HD isn't just for games, it's for all the little other functions to become *better* - view your photos with the same quality on screen as they would have as kodak glossies, play interactive games like Little Big Planet, and let the artist space for details, flourishes, and brush strokes. Have you seen the Forza 2 car customizer, where people can put the *box art* from Wind Waker on the hood of a car? Imagine being able to have that level of customization with a Mii. An HD screen lets you have details that SD can never have, and it makes possible a whole new era of games. Why should Mario Paint on the Wii have similar limitations to Mario Paint on SNES? Why shouldn't you be able to make artwork with it that you could print out *poster size* and be proud of?
ssbfalco
Too much fact and logic for System Wars :P
You made a whole whack of valid points that will most likely be ignored by people.
I just wanted to add the fact that I have a 27" CRT that uses more power in standby mode than my 32" LCD HDTV does when it's on. CRT is terrible for energy costs. Not that most of these kids actually pay bills or anything...
I'm dissapointed - the only response I get to a logical post showing why HD is needed, and affordable, and it's from someone who agrees with me. Yeah, CRTs suck stupid amounts of power when they're off, though I agree, there are plenty of people on these forums who haven't paid an electric bill... I lived with some of them for a year... how is it possible for a 1000 sq ft apartment to have $350 power bills - oh you guys run the dryer three times in a row to dry a single pair of jeans, use the dishwasher twice a day, and leave your three computers on 24/7...
I was going to respond, but it would be largely ignored, and I started to feel a bit lazy at this point (and I should be working on a website I've been assigned to do...)
But I'll pick out a few random points (I know, it will seem like I'm ignoring them, but I read it all) And I know I will go off on some kind of tangent and ignore even more points than I wanted to, but whatever...
First (I did say random), It is found that the Wii's Resolution is Software limited in the SDK (according to "leaked" info from devs), so theoretically, they could unlock that in the future for certian applications, such as the web browser, however it's highly unlikley...
Also, Many want to discount 480p, but it really isn't too bad (I'm assuming that you were kinda getting at this). Certain games on Wii and GC were able to show even greater detail than you could see in 480i, but it's generally only apparant on a TV that supports that resolution well... I do have one of the early adopter CRT HDTV's and it's upscalling capabilities are excellent such that any resolution looks good on it, but if comparing a 480i input with a 480p input, the difference is dramatic...
Again, the Wii's aim is different than most think it is. It's a simple gaming machine with little exta gimmicks (browser, photo channel, miis) to distract people for a bit and make the product seem more interesting. Everyone does it. Vista, PS3, etc... Nintendo wanted from the start to make a console that would make them money despite being an experiment. Fact. And it is... I don't know if they even expected this much success with the Wii...
The Wii is an experiment for the Wiimote and motion sensing control in general, and I'd say it's a success... They were the guinea pigs for the industry, if the concept failed, the industry would know what not to try. If it succedes, the industry may see a good use for it...
Just like the DS, it was an experiment as they explicitly stated that the DS was a third tier of consoles, (Home, GB, DS), but it turned out successful and they don't seem to have any plans to continue the GB line...
They promised already that their next console will be in HD after the early success, and although it's just pure speculation on my part, it will have the same prowress as the next generation of consoles will, and that proves that even Nintendo doesn't just ignore HD. Just that they had a different battle to fight this time around.
They need to get themselves popular again so that they can actually spend more money on their next console, maybe take a loss, and guarrantee themselves a greater share of thrid party games, and gamers in general, guarranteeing a profit when all is said and done...
There's some truth to the Wii strategy you've mentioned (hopefully) but there really aren't 480p screens on the market anymore. In the early days of HDTV there were some solid widescreen CRTs on the market, especially some of the ones coming out of Sony, but these have been gone from the market for some time. To buy into 480p usually means to buy into 720p, unless you're getting a projector, which I mentioned in another post.
The gains from going to 480p are remarkable - just having clear text is a blessing. When I think that there are Wii fanboys out there who play their games in 480i using composite cables, I'm left going "umm... to bash PC, 360, or PS3 graphics at HD resolutions... you don't know what you're missing".
I've had a long-standing hatred of interlacing though, back to the PS1 days when I got into JRPGs and the text was sometimes difficult to read on my 20" Sony Trinitron.
[QUOTE="ssbfalco"][QUOTE="subrosian"][QUOTE="bryehngeocef"][QUOTE="subrosian"]1. HDTV *is* the new standard, take a look at your local Best Buy, Circuit City, Target, or even Walmart. What do you see in the television aisle?
2. Cost is no excuse - I'm a poor college student and I have an HDTV, $500 for a 27" ~ 32" set is not impossible, it's the price of a Wii with 5 games, something most Nintendo fans were able to afford. 37" HDTVs start around $650 for 720p and $1000 for 1080p. Going to $1000 lets you have a 42" HDTV or a 720p projector (max screen size 100"). The picture quality difference for going progressive-scan and widescreen, even for a Wii, is huge. If you haven't played a Wii on a 100" widescreen, well, how can you say you've really played a Wii?
3. The HD-bashers are mostly coming from the Nintendo camp, and none of them are coming from people who actually *own* an HDTV. Once you have had one a few months you won't be able to go back... I know I can't, and I've started eyeing larger sets enviously.
4. There is really *no* reason to bash HD. My 27" set was $500... yet a 20.1" widescreen monitor can be had for $200 or less, and will give you 1680 x 1050 resolution, which is quite frankly fine for PS3 / 360 / PC gaming. The Wii is a bit tricker since it requires component inputs, but a 23" sceptre HD-monitor runs $250, and is perfect for Wii gaming.
5. Interlaced content (480i) is dead. CRT manufacturing is over... LCD has put it to rest due to being thinner, lighter, and supporting much higher resolutions. Quality CRTs don't exist anymore - they're big, bulky, bad for the environment (tons of lead), and expensive to ship. With JIT manufacturing the way it is, you won't see a company like Sony make another CRT. Interlacing makes content have input delays on non-CRT sets, and it destroys picture quality. An interlace signal has only 60% of the apparent resolution of a non-interlaced image. That means going from 480p to 480i with a Wii, you're losing picture quality. Nintendo worked hard to put little flourishes in games like Twilight Princess and Super Paper Mario - by running these games in 480i you're tossing away that detail. There is no reason for any gamer, Nintendo fan or otherwise, to support the continued existance of 480i sets.
6.HD is needed - maybe if you're from a generation that still things Pong, Internet Explorer, and Windows 95 are bastions of the computing world. Nintendo had the brains to support the absolutely rockin' Opera browser, but not to slap a VGA, DVI, or HDMI port on the Wii? We know the Wii graphics card could easily have supported higher resolutions in things like the Web Browser, which would have made it a lot more functional. Browsing at 720x480? Difficult! HD isn't just for games, it's for all the little other functions to become *better* - view your photos with the same quality on screen as they would have as kodak glossies, play interactive games like Little Big Planet, and let the artist space for details, flourishes, and brush strokes. Have you seen the Forza 2 car customizer, where people can put the *box art* from Wind Waker on the hood of a car? Imagine being able to have that level of customization with a Mii. An HD screen lets you have details that SD can never have, and it makes possible a whole new era of games. Why should Mario Paint on the Wii have similar limitations to Mario Paint on SNES? Why shouldn't you be able to make artwork with it that you could print out *poster size* and be proud of?
subrosian
Too much fact and logic for System Wars :P
You made a whole whack of valid points that will most likely be ignored by people.
I just wanted to add the fact that I have a 27" CRT that uses more power in standby mode than my 32" LCD HDTV does when it's on. CRT is terrible for energy costs. Not that most of these kids actually pay bills or anything...
I'm dissapointed - the only response I get to a logical post showing why HD is needed, and affordable, and it's from someone who agrees with me. Yeah, CRTs suck stupid amounts of power when they're off, though I agree, there are plenty of people on these forums who haven't paid an electric bill... I lived with some of them for a year... how is it possible for a 1000 sq ft apartment to have $350 power bills - oh you guys run the dryer three times in a row to dry a single pair of jeans, use the dishwasher twice a day, and leave your three computers on 24/7...
I was going to respond, but it would be largely ignored, and I started to feel a bit lazy at this point (and I should be working on a website I've been assigned to do...)
But I'll pick out a few random points (I know, it will seem like I'm ignoring them, but I read it all) And I know I will go off on some kind of tangent and ignore even more points than I wanted to, but whatever...
First (I did say random), It is found that the Wii's Resolution is Software limited in the SDK (according to "leaked" info from devs), so theoretically, they could unlock that in the future for certian applications, such as the web browser, however it's highly unlikley...
Also, Many want to discount 480p, but it really isn't too bad (I'm assuming that you were kinda getting at this). Certain games on Wii and GC were able to show even greater detail than you could see in 480i, but it's generally only apparant on a TV that supports that resolution well... I do have one of the early adopter CRT HDTV's and it's upscalling capabilities are excellent such that any resolution looks good on it, but if comparing a 480i input with a 480p input, the difference is dramatic...
Again, the Wii's aim is different than most think it is. It's a simple gaming machine with little exta gimmicks (browser, photo channel, miis) to distract people for a bit and make the product seem more interesting. Everyone does it. Vista, PS3, etc... Nintendo wanted from the start to make a console that would make them money despite being an experiment. Fact. And it is... I don't know if they even expected this much success with the Wii...
The Wii is an experiment for the Wiimote and motion sensing control in general, and I'd say it's a success... They were the guinea pigs for the industry, if the concept failed, the industry would know what not to try. If it succedes, the industry may see a good use for it...
Just like the DS, it was an experiment as they explicitly stated that the DS was a third tier of consoles, (Home, GB, DS), but it turned out successful and they don't seem to have any plans to continue the GB line...
They promised already that their next console will be in HD after the early success, and although it's just pure speculation on my part, it will have the same prowress as the next generation of consoles will, and that proves that even Nintendo doesn't just ignore HD. Just that they had a different battle to fight this time around.
They need to get themselves popular again so that they can actually spend more money on their next console, maybe take a loss, and guarrantee themselves a greater share of thrid party games, and gamers in general, guarranteeing a profit when all is said and done...
There's some truth to the Wii strategy you've mentioned (hopefully) but there really aren't 480p screens on the market anymore. In the early days of HDTV there were some solid widescreen CRTs on the market, especially some of the ones coming out of Sony, but these have been gone from the market for some time. To buy into 480p usually means to buy into 720p, unless you're getting a projector, which I mentioned in another post.
The gains from going to 480p are remarkable - just having clear text is a blessing. When I think that there are Wii fanboys out there who play their games in 480i using composite cables, I'm left going "umm... to bash PC, 360, or PS3 graphics at HD resolutions... you don't know what you're missing".
I've had a long-standing hatred of interlacing though, back to the PS1 days when I got into JRPGs and the text was sometimes difficult to read on my 20" Sony Trinitron.
I actually picked up a 20" native 480p LCD not too long ago for $150 CAD. I specifically bought it for Wii, but ended hooking up my old GameCube to it in my bedroom.
Anyways, I found a huge difference just jumping from 480i to 480p.
When I got my 720p/1080i set (mainly for my 360), I found Wii games/menu got more blurry than I'd like because of the TV's native resolution, but GameCube games still looked a million times better than on my CRT. Not sure how to explain that one, but it's true.
I will admit, the way we have the setup now, The CRT HD I have is in the living room, but we don't have a great sound system in there at all (just... *shudder* default TV speakers), but in the basement, where we have this early HD projector (DVI... ugh) and older 42" rear projection TV, and the 7.1 surround sound system is where I have the Wii now, and I'm fine with it for now, (though it will recieve an upgrade once TV's near that size reach a reasonable price...).
Forutantly, the rear projection TVs don't have as much of a problem with interlacing as other TVs due to the projection aspect helping things, along with some Sony image enhancement tech back in the day...
Along with that... I don't think there were very many who really bashed PC, 360 and PS3 graphics as much as they said they weren't really necessary... Which is true for some people and not for others...
Me personally? If the game's fun enough, I'll play, crappy resolution, low graphics settings, whatever... It's nice to have, yes, and I'd prefer to play it at higher resolution and detail settings, but as of now, it's not an absolute requirement to me...
IF the controls are done right in certain games such that it improves the gameplay (so far, only Rayman...), I'm sure I'd pick the Wii version over the more powerful console version... Although for Guitar Hero III I'd pick the cheapest, as... well, you spend little time actually looking at the game than you do hitting the right buttons..
I actually picked up a 20" native 480p LCD not too long ago for $150 CAD. I specifically bought it for Wii, but ended hooking up my old GameCube to it in my bedroom.
Anyways, I found a huge difference just jumping from 480i to 480p.
When I got my 720p/1080i set (mainly for my 360), I found Wii games/menu got more blurry than I'd like because of the TV's native resolution, but GameCube games still looked a million times better than on my CRT. Not sure how to explain that one, but it's true.
bryehngeocef
Deflicker... The Deflicker is probably being overused in the Wii games then... Here, try this...
Hook up the Wii to that TV again, component cables and all... Pop in smash meele. Play with it as it is for a bit, and compare it when you turn the deflicker (cheap AA method) off in one of the smash option menus... Also try it on the cube and compare...
It was a feature designed to improve 480i interlaced displays on CRTs however... Which is why GC games all appeared AA'd but they weren't... Except for Rogue Squadron games which used proper AA...
It's possible that they're using proper AA in Smash Brawl based on those screenshots, and in either case, I'd hope so... As Smash will likley continue to be a tournement level game (EVO and others) it better display well...
If HD is standard like TC says, then shouldn't we start calling it SDTV?Darthmatt
LOL.
First I have an HD TV, I also have a Wii... OMG the paradox will rip the the space time continum and destroy everything as we know it...
That or HD is nice, but not nessicary for the enjoyment of games... ...
1. Not too many people have HDTV's.
2. Not Standard and NO America doesnt say whats Standard or not.
3. Not many channels support HDTV.
4. Why sheep would bash HDTV if Nintendo said their next console would be HDTV capable.
5. It is expensive
What is the definition of standard to this thread. I see people referring towards to many different things.Blackbond
I believe the TC is confused with two types...the standard of what people have and the standard of what stores have in stock to sale to the public...
In either case, he insusts that standard(in homes) is now here. But its not...As someone else said, and I did read it in soem articles about hd dvd players, that hd tvs are not the norm yet. Not close...Too many peopel have regular tvs that do just fine, or have projections and havent had the money to buy a 1400 or 2000 or even 8000 dollar 1080p tv yet..(depending on the size of the screen and the brand name)
So, the topic creator is confusing the standard of what people have by arguing that 'all the stores sell nothing but HD tvs now'. which is two diff things...
He's lost...and hopeless.
[QUOTE="Darthmatt"]If HD is standard like TC says, then shouldn't we start calling it SDTV?GundamGuy0
LOL.
First I have an HD TV, I also have a Wii... OMG the paradox will rip the the space time continum and destroy everything as we know it...
That or HD is nice, but not nessicary for the enjoyment of games... ...
Yeah, I mean we only had basic tvs for 20 some years and played games and enjoed the heck out of them, so we dont NEED them liek the TC thinks we do. A standard tv today(like a flatscreen, not HD) can display nice graphics, esp if you have component hookups for it, but even then, you dont need those to enjoy the game....Ocarina of Time or Virtua fighter anyone?
But you are right. HD is not necessary.
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