More developers need to take inspiration from Elden Ring, not The Last of Us

@hardwenzen: crazy right, I like a smidgen more depth and nuance to my games than pew pew shoot the exact same monsters on repeat for 12 hours.

Holy crap Mozelle is embarassing himself this thread.

I can assure you that games like WoW and League of Legends will be fondly remembered and still played even 20 years from now, while even now, GoW: Ragnarok is facing incredibe ammount of scrutiny and negativity. And not just in SW either.

And Dad of War TLOU having some of the best stories? Are you kidding me?

For good writing, please play some actual adventure games, visual novels, and games like Disco Elysium, Portal and Planescape Torment.

Yeah... as a Nordic (Swedish) person. I found that the writers of this game most likely had a very bad understanding of norse mythology, especially the dialogue that seemed out of place. I like to call it Pop Norse Mythology.

I don't mind the creative liberties taken here and there, but the prose, themes and tone are all incredibly out of place. Not to mention the missed opportunities. They had potential to use Norse Mythology to add to the cliche story they were trying to tell, yet... they turned Nokkens into goblins >_>

The dialogue in particular is so... cringe. The dialogue in general comes across as an obnoxious fanfic of Norse Mythology with Kratos being the self insert.

Monsters variety in Eternal wasn't an issue. Adding nuances to a lighting fast first person game wouldn't add much to the experience. The game has the og feel, and while 15 years ago i might've been tired of games like it, cuz we used to have a bunch of them in the 90's and 2000's, nowadays they're rare, especially non indie ones, so its hard to not appreciate something that is very different from your mainstream shooters that we're getting these days.

Don't tell me you thought that Santa Monica is trying to portray Norse Mythos as accurately as possible. No way you're this much of a🤡🤡🤡

Because its a massively successful Sony exclusive, and you have so damn much trouble finding ammunition to nitpick, you're at a point of criticizing the game for fanfic, WHICH IT IS. Its a god damn video game LMAO. Let me remind you that Kratos is a fictional character created by a Sony first party studio. Yes, you heard it, he isn't real🤡

You make me sick, Maroxad. You really do.

So you think I'm braindead and a child for playing DOOM? lol

Yeah, having lightning fast reflexes while managing all resources on Nightmare difficulty in DOOM Eternal is for braindead people and children. God of War is for men! Men likes to watch cutscenes, mostly.

Really? I think most games you listed as masterpieces sucks ass.

No, I think it's Sony fanboys. You call every Sony game with high production values a masterpiece. Kinda like how Nintendo fanboys wrongfully calls every Zelda a masterpiece, except they are way closer to being right.

@Litchie: Your taste is pathetically bad, so I am not surprised you don't like any of the award winning and genre defining masterpieces I listed.

and yes I do, doom is on the emotional level of fart jokes in south park. The Last of Us is exquisite like the Godfather or a cuban cigar.

and also no, I don't call any Sony game a masterpiece. You're a butthurt Sony hater (you and Juub) that refuse to acknowledge any of the Sony games as good, no matter how perfect (TLOU) they actually are. Its sad being that narrow minded tbh.

You don't hear me talking about Returnal, Gran Turismo, Ratchet, Spiderman, Miles Morales, Littlebigplanet, Days Gone, or even Uncharted 4 ( most GOTY winner of 2016 btw) because they are not. Not even that weebo crap PS5 exclusive that has a metacritic score of 95 (Persona 5 Royal)

The Last of US 1-2, God of War (+ Ragnarok) on the other hand, are four of the top 10 best games of the last 10 years. absolute masterpieces on the level of the Mona Lisa

I said most. But I can see you're butthurt, so it's cool.

Except children can play TLoU without any problems whatsoever, since monkeys also can, but would cry for mom if they tried DOOM Eternal. But yeah, in regular Sony fanboy fashion, you stay away from games with more gameplay than you can handle, even calls gameplay heavy games braindead so you can cope with sucking, so I'm not surprised by what you're saying.

No, I don't refuse to acknowledge good things when it comes from Sony. Returnal looks awesome, I'm getting it as soon as it hits Steam. The Demon's Souls remake looks cool. But that's about it for the PS5. You know, games that don't play themselves. I like those. The watching, walking, talking games? **** those.

No, I don't hear you talking about Returnal. I don't hear you talking about anything good, really.

@Mozelleple112: even 10 mintues in Doom and Doom Eternal has more gameplay than entire GOW and uncharted and last of us 2 lol.

I played GOW 2018. trash, one of the worst game of all time. played uncharted 4. ended it. its a movie with occassional gameplay.

@hardwenzen:

I don't mind the creative liberties taken here and there, but the prose, themes and tone are all incredibly out of place. Not to mention the missed opportunities. They had potential to use Norse Mythology to add to the cliche story they were trying to tell, yet... they turned Nokkens into goblins >_>

Nah, you are the one who likes MGS4 (which is the worst MGS game) and TLOU2 (which is one of the most hated games in the past 10 years. All while propping up mediocre hollywood stories that have been a done better countless times before.

Doom has a reasonably high skill ceiling, especially for a single player game. It takes skill to master, and the depth and high adrenaline of the gameplay makes it one of the best single player games to have come out in the past decade. But this is for you know... people who like video games for gameplay, not mediocre hollywood wannabes. Seriously, give the Visual Novel genre a try, try Stein's Gate if you seriously play video games for story, maybe @Jag85 can recommend you more good VNs. Honestly, if you find the storytelling of TLOU and Dad of War impressive, you really need to read some novels, watch some cinema and play games with ACTUAL narratives.

Edit: Mona Lisa is collossally overrated, and the only reason it became famous in the first place was because it was stolen. I am not sure this is the comparison you want to be making.

@Maroxad: Yeah, I feel second-hand embarrassment for him. Those claims are so outlandish and stupid I refuse to believe he isn’t trolling.

@Juub1990: Oh look its the dumbass who thinks Bayonetta, Forza and doom are masterpieces. Probably Genshin Impact as welll.

@Maroxad: yes it is I who like MGS4, one of the consensus greatest games of all time, and TLOU2, one of the consensus greatest games of all time and the most awarded game in history.

Also I tried Disco Elysium, finished it. terrible game. no where near TLOU or MGS4 in story or narrative, and it has literally zero gameplay, as opposed to MGS4, MGS4, TLOU, TLOU2 etc that have 10/10 gameplay next to its 10/10 story & narrative.

MGS4 was only good in the first 2 acts. Act 3 was a tailing mission (and we all hate those), Act 4 had nothing but robots, and was more annoying than fun, Act 5 had dull level design for the stealth section and is when the writing had truly jumped the shark, and became a parody of itself.

And TLOU2 does not have the general consensus of being one of the best games of all time iether. The game was EXTREMELY divisive, and opinions on the game remain mixed, at best today.

All in all, games should aspire to move away from the Cinematic Model. Unless you are one of those who desire Video Games to be poor imitations of Hollywood movies. With some middling gameplay inbetween.

Doom Eternal is still fondly talked about years after release. Meanwhile when TLOU2 is talked about it is done in mostly a middling light. Widely regarded as mediocre.

Why bother replying to him? The dude is a complete troll.

@Maroxad: Doom Eternal released the same year as TLOU2 and didn't win jack shit. TLOU2 took home the GOTY and loads of other awards like best game direction and best narrative (which is among the best of any game). I remember people on this forum being butthurt about Mick Gordon not winning best music. boohoo.

And no one talks about Doom Eternal. Absolutely no one. TLOU2 gets brought up in every single thread of every gaming forum.

and TLOU2 is the most awarded game in history. it has 300+ GOTY awards.

and TLOU2 is one of consensus greatest most well made and greatest games of all time, but a lot of cuckolds hate the game because of political reasons and what happened to joel. Take away the cucks and literally 100% of the opinions of TLOU2 is that it is one of the best games ever made.

@Maroxad: and talking about MGS4.. the game that got 10/10 on Gamespot (and GOTY) and 10/10 on IGN, and everywhere else that matters.

MGS4 probably has the best ending of any video game. on TLOU1 comes close.

Yeah, there is no need to respond to him. I just thought it was ridicilous how he attacked your tastes for liking videogames for actually being games.

It is interesting in a sense, the games he brings up. Notice how both TLOU2 and GoW:R seem to be dealing with... middling reputations? Could we be seeing diminishing returns on the cinematic style. Not just here either. Look at what Sony games do well on PC. Uncharted 4 came with a whimper, not a bang. No ammount of GOTY awards didnt change the fact that people just didnt care for UC4.

Could it be fatigue of the more hollywood game model?

GOWR definitely has a lesser fan reception than the 2018 game and a lot of complaints revolve around the overly mushy and Hollywood storytelling with all these hugs, kisses, and cries. Kratos at times is barely recognizable.

TLOU2 was definitely polarizing and those who love harping about all those GOTY awards also ignore the middling fan reception. Additionally, the sales also plummeted after the first week. It sold 4.5M in the first weekend alone but then 18 months later was only at 10M. 10M is a strong number no matter how you look at it, but that decline was dramatic. The game was initially outselling Ghost of Tsushima 3:1 but after 2 years, they were nearly neck-and-neck.

I'm a fan of GOW 2018 and just started another playthrough last week and realized how much better-paced it is than Ragnarok. Not just the storytelling but even the levels. Ragnarok goes absolutely HAM with the puzzles to the point that it slows down progressing through a level to a snail's pace. Coupled with the overuse of dialogue and cutscenes, this makes for an incredibly slow game that has barely moved after 10 hours.

I hope people wizen up to this Hollywood-style crap. Actors are more and more interested in games because they get to act more and this is not a good thing.

Yeah, from what I can gather, people seem to prefer 2018. Whereas in Ragnarok the writers shoehorned in a story, that was not a good fit for the characters.

I think one of the best testaments to a game's strength is how well it holds up years to come. TLOU2 sold well due to hype, but as negative word of mouth kicked in, it ended up being outpaced by less glamourous, but ultimately more entertaining titles. And despite what some people say it is not due to politics either. Mount and Blade Warband had a humble launch, but the series ended up selling 7 million copies and that was before Bannerlord. Word of mouth for the game was exceptional.

I hope so too. This hollywood style crap is getting old, and I hope these kind of games go the way of the Gen 5 collectathon, I am seeing similar signs of genre fatigue. So we will see what happens.

One thing I have observed with a lot of these games, is that the stories of them are at their best when they are mostly just sticking to the formula established by superior writers and filmmakers. As soon as they implement their own ideas, the writing gets overwhelmingly panned. And that is a huge problem, when at their best, they are a shadow of a superior product. There are clear issues.

I've been hating on ND games since3 suffering through UC2, I'd say the perfect balance for narrative games that I've seen is Spiderman, Insomniac nailed it with the perfect amount of narrative, giving out story in the earpiece while I'm webbing through the city and beating up bad guys. I tried GOW18 for the first time recently and was greeted by a 10 minute walking sequence to start the game. Why?

The start is the longest part where you don't do much. My older brother had the same reaction as yours.

Spider-Man does indeed let you play within like 30 seconds of starting the game.

The argumentation in this thread is interesting if not odd. It’s basically come down to people pitting games against each other such as Doom Eternal vs Uncharted 4 or Metal Gear Solid 4 vs Disco Elysium, as if any of those games mentioned are “bad” games.

All of those examples above have good gameplay. Some just rely more on narrative than others. In the case of Disco Elysium, which I am playing for the first time currently, the narrative is a strong point that enhances the overall experience.

For Uncharted 4 and Metal Gear 4, the narrative aspects don’t enhance the gameplay experience at all, but the cutscenes provided eye candy on their respective consoles at the time. And the story in those games don’t necessarily detract from the gameplay either, though cinematic walking can break immersion a little.

Then you have gamer’s games like Doom, which I prefer over others. These are games where gameplay is clearly king, and narrative somewhat an afterthought. That’s not to take away from how engrossing a game like Disco Elysium or Stanley Parable can be, but games that rely primarily on narrative structure to provide a gaming experience rarely turn out to be excellent games. I say this as someone with little experience in narrative based genres such as JRPGS and point and click adventures, two genres that have plenty of great experiences, I’m sure.

Likewise, even though “movie games” can have their annoyances, good gameplay can bail them out and salvage the experience.