Makes me Sad how Nintendo have lost there touch

If you look back in the day, Nintendo were a strong company, had some insane and fun games...expecially in the Snes/N64 era...but since the cube they have gone down hill, IMO. When i say downhill i mean concerning games. These days its nothing more then fancy anime games/mario and a very few decent titles like metroid prime, Zelda, Mario..etc etc. What happen to all the violent games and in fun games in general???

Nintendo treat violent games like poison, They seem to rely on nothing but mario/Zelda/MP....wheres all the great 3rd party support?? and why do all the wii games seem rushed, just to add the new controls? Yes its still early...but its best to start early..and knowing there track record with the cube, it has me worried. Its like nintendo don't care or something...and as if gamers wil eat up anything they throw to them. 

Of course the wii is popular, the new controls and gameplay method introduced has that effect and usually have many buying it at the beginning and it seems fun...but seriouslly, how long will that last..if decent software isn't coming out??? I hope nintendo does something about this and not rely too much on there few good 1st party titles. I really want more games taking advantage of the controls..something i think MP3 will do, but thats one game..and why arn't devs getting better graphics out of it? 

Your thoughts??? 

When did Nintendo stop making fun games? and(or) when did fun games stop appearing on Nintendo consoles?

I don't think they've lost their touch, rather, the competition has become better. So relatively, they don't seem to be creating groudbreaking games of the previoud calibre.

I agree that 3rd party really didn't do anything in the previous generation or 2. But it's something that Nintendo seems to be doing a lot better this time round.

And, yes, Nintendo did it again, they've delayed their big titles. But i'm not all that surprised about that. As for the graphics argument (even though this has been used over and over again, it's true), devs were caught by surprise by the Wii. They didn't really have time develop great looking games. Or even Wii ground-up games, this has a lot to do with Nintendo's fault though as they gave the tools out too late. 

    Violent games =/=  fun games. They can be fun, but there is no guarantee.

    That said, Nintendo is trying to position itself as the "family system", which mean, among other things, an increased focus on games that are more tame, and easier to get into, than most violent games.

    Which is fine. It is one route for them to go, and it is a segment of the gaming population that has been left out of the console cycle for a long while, with only PCs and handhelds really having a large segment of "family friendly" titles available.

    The danger comes in if Sony and MS decide to copy Nintendo, and all three begin a more casual and "family friendly" focus, since that would hurt gaming as a medium for expression, and could cause a huge backlash in the industry. 

Well the touch they've lost is making their games challenging and deep. Everything now coming from Nintendo is made so a retard could master the basic gameplay..... yet finding and figuring out stuff can still be hard. It's like their making super simple game aimed at children that don't improve their skills (we all grew up with much harder games than what's popular now) and there's no way they could figure out everything in Metroid or Zelda. You sheep always say gameplay > graphics but Nintendo has moved to a point where even if good content is there, the gameplay is so simple and shallow it's pathetic. Same shallow gameplay simplification is happening to console shooters since Halo:CE too imo.Lazy_Boy88

    You are describing an industry-wide phenomenon. You make the core gameplay easy to pick up, but hard to master. It allows more people to play the game, while at the same time, allows the game to remain more than simplistic in the long run. Almost every game now has the same formula in that respect. It is not just Nintendo titles.

    And games, back in the day, were hard in order to A) extract many quarters from you in the arcade (and that was left in when ported to home systems) or B) add to the longevity of the title. If games are insanely hard, you will be forced to play them longer, while the developers didn't have to add much to the title to extend longevity.

When did Nintendo stop making fun games? and(or) when did fun games stop appearing on Nintendo consoles?

SailorMars

They didnt. Beleive it or not, the only people who do complain are the hardcore gamers who expect a new and fresh title around the corner every two weeks just because they beat a game in two days. Any normal person with a life can be entertained for 3 to 6 months with the same game before thinking of another. Its just hardcore nerds and nothing more. Other then that, people seem to expect amazing HQ titles within a month after launch. Especially the hypcritical Lems, who obviously forgot about theres.:roll:

I wouldn't say MP and Zelda are violent...i'm talking games like Silent hill, Resident evil, Dead rising, First person shooters...etc etc. I wouldn't know..but didn't nintendo have blood removed from Red steel or something???

 I agree with the person regarding competetion...but nintendo can still do alot more. Also, about the whole  "family" audience there targeting...thats good and all but what about the hardcore gamers??? Theres very few titles aimed towards them..and that doesn't seem like changing anytime soon. 

Snes and n64 seemed to have a way more variety...with shooters, fighters, racers, sports..etc etc...so many to pick from..but its so limited now, IMO. 

[QUOTE="SailorMars"]

When did Nintendo stop making fun games? and(or) when did fun games stop appearing on Nintendo consoles?

Caramel_Fantasy

They didnt. Beleive it or not, the only people who do complain are the hardcore gamers who expect a new and fresh title around the corner every two weeks just because they beat a game in two days. Any normal person with a life can be entertained for 3 to 6 months with the same game before thinking of another. Its just hardcore nerds and nothing more. Other then that, people seem to expect amazing HQ titles within a month after launch. Especially the hypcritical Lems, who obviously forgot about theres.:roll:

Great post and great sig. I agree. Back when I used to live at home, I would buy a game, beat it then return it within days. Now that I have a job, go to school and well...have a life, it's hard to complain about games as much.  Especially since I'm going to school for game design, I really appreciate developer's contribution to gaming as a whole. Nintendo does so much to push the industry forward, only "hardcore" fanboys are too blind to see their contribution.

This has always been my problem with nintendo. I cant stand Mario, Kirby etc.... yeah sure the games may be fun, but im always for something deeply involving when it comes to games, something that offers an experience (RE,MGS,FF,HALO) and the fat plumber doesn't do it for me in that sense.

The way is kind of steping away from that direction though, with games lik manhunt etc..... but im sure it will always be considfed kiddy, or as a family system (which is what its meant to be)

I wouldn't say MP and Zelda are violent...i'm talking games like Silent hill, Resident evil, Dead rising, First person shooters...etc etc. I wouldn't know..but didn't nintendo have blood removed from Red steel or something???

I agree with the person regarding competetion...but nintendo can still do alot more. Also, about the whole "family" audience there targeting...thats good and all but what about the hardcore gamers??? Theres very few titles aimed towards them..and that doesn't seem like changing anytime soon.

 

Snes and n64 seemed to have a way more variety...with shooters, fighters, racers, sports..etc etc...so many to pick from..but its so limited now, IMO.

-Maddog-

Ubisoft never put blood in Red Steel in the first place so they could get away with a T rating. Even Nintendo put blood in some of their games. The Wii is meant to be 2nd system so it sells more. Don't ask "what about hardcore gamers" because a true hardcore gamer would buy a Wii and not complain. "HARDCORE" is thrown around way too much these days.

[QUOTE="SailorMars"]

When did Nintendo stop making fun games? and(or) when did fun games stop appearing on Nintendo consoles?

Caramel_Fantasy

They didnt. Beleive it or not, the only people who do complain are the hardcore gamers who expect a new and fresh title around the corner every two weeks just because they beat a game in two days. Any normal person with a life can be entertained for 3 to 6 months with the same game before thinking of another. Its just hardcore nerds and nothing more. Other then that, people seem to expect amazing HQ titles within a month after launch. Especially the hypcritical Lems, who obviously forgot about theres.:roll:

Oh, I see. Well a single game or two, usually does last me for quite a few months. 

Cute signature by the way.

This has always been my problem with nintendo. I cant stand Mario, Kirby etc.... yeah sure the games may be fun, but im always for something deeply involving when it comes to games, something that offers an experience (RE,MGS,FF,HALO) and the fat plumber doesn't do it for me in that sense.

The way is kind of steping away from that direction though, with games lik manhunt etc..... but im sure it will always be considfed kiddy, or as a family system (which is what its meant to be)

kool_kat18

[QUOTE="Caramel_Fantasy"][QUOTE="SailorMars"]

When did Nintendo stop making fun games? and(or) when did fun games stop appearing on Nintendo consoles?

Boba_Fett_3710

They didnt. Beleive it or not, the only people who do complain are the hardcore gamers who expect a new and fresh title around the corner every two weeks just because they beat a game in two days. Any normal person with a life can be entertained for 3 to 6 months with the same game before thinking of another. Its just hardcore nerds and nothing more. Other then that, people seem to expect amazing HQ titles within a month after launch. Especially the hypcritical Lems, who obviously forgot about theres.:roll:

Great post and great sig. I agree. Back when I used to live at home, I would buy a game, beat it then return it within days. Now that I have a job, go to school and well...have a life, it's hard to complain about games as much.  Especially since I'm going to school for game design, I really appreciate developer's contribution to gaming as a whole. Nintendo does so much to push the industry forward, only "hardcore" fanboys are too blind to see their contribution.

QFT

[QUOTE="-Maddog-"]

I wouldn't say MP and Zelda are violent...i'm talking games like Silent hill, Resident evil, Dead rising, First person shooters...etc etc. I wouldn't know..but didn't nintendo have blood removed from Red steel or something???

I agree with the person regarding competetion...but nintendo can still do alot more. Also, about the whole "family" audience there targeting...thats good and all but what about the hardcore gamers??? Theres very few titles aimed towards them..and that doesn't seem like changing anytime soon.

 

Snes and n64 seemed to have a way more variety...with shooters, fighters, racers, sports..etc etc...so many to pick from..but its so limited now, IMO.

Boba_Fett_3710

Ubisoft never put blood in Red Steel in the first place so they could get away with a T rating. Even Nintendo put blood in some of their games. The Wii is meant to be 2nd system so it sells more. Don't ask "what about hardcore gamers" because a true hardcore gamer would buy a Wii and not complain. "HARDCORE" is thrown around way too much these days.

    Actually, a hardcore gamer would own more than just the Wii anyway. And if you ask me, owning a PS3 and 360 seems kinda worthless as of now, since they are so similar, yet the Wii as a second system works, since the games are vastly different and offer something that the other systems cannot do. 

[QUOTE="SailorMars"]

When did Nintendo stop making fun games? and(or) when did fun games stop appearing on Nintendo consoles?

Caramel_Fantasy

They didnt. Beleive it or not, the only people who do complain are the hardcore gamers who expect a new and fresh title around the corner every two weeks just because they beat a game in two days. Any normal person with a life can be entertained for 3 to 6 months with the same game before thinking of another. Its just hardcore nerds and nothing more. Other then that, people seem to expect amazing HQ titles within a month after launch. Especially the hypcritical Lems, who obviously forgot about theres.:roll:

Agreed, but i would still play Halo when i get back home from uni instead of mario galaxy, and i reckon Mario is MORE for hardcore gamers than Halo(im only using Halo for arguments sake) because of all the time you have to put in if you really want to complete the game properly. Hell i took Months to complete most Nintendo games.

I have no interest in making the PS3 my second console, i would like the 360 to be but they need to fix their hardware problems first, i don't have time or the patience for failing hardware. Think about this, The Wii has sold 6.5 million WITHOUT a Mario game, look at the first week sales of SPM, it was way ahead of other games.

seriously, though. dont you get tired of violent games sometimes? i look the the game you listed and there mostly mature. im a adult, and i would rather play mario, kirby, pikmin than the games you just listed. im the type that love seeing different art s.tyles, rather than lots of explosions. im not gonna say that i dont play mature games, but sometimes you have to break away from games like that, just so you dont feel as if youre playing the same type of games constantly. Rahnyc4

    There are diffrent tastes. Personally, I prefer games like GRAW and Rainbow Six (the more realistic shooters), so violence is somewhat inherent in the games I enjoy, and yet, I can also really get into and like WarioWare or Rayman. It also depends on my mood at the time.

    Sorry for changing your quote, FireFox and GS won't let me put the word s.tyle in my post! 

if i could own two systems... and enjoy them both equally... then most prob i'd buy the wii... but since this is not possible (i've got other things to do with my time)...i chose to stick with my 360... and that's bcz i like the games more than those on the wii (not referring to geow if anyone thinks i am).... it's a matter of opinion...

[QUOTE="Rahnyc4"]
seriously, though. dont you get tired of violent games sometimes? i look the the game you listed and there mostly mature. im a adult, and i would rather play mario, kirby, pikmin than the games you just listed. im the type that love seeing different art s.tyles, rather than lots of explosions. im not gonna say that i dont play mature games, but sometimes you have to break away from games like that, just so you dont feel as if youre playing the same type of games constantly. SpruceCaboose

    There are diffrent tastes. Personally, I prefer games like GRAW and Rainbow Six (the more realistic shooters), so violence is somewhat inherent in the games I enjoy, and yet, I can also really get into and like WarioWare or Rayman. It also depends on my mood at the time.

    Sorry for changing your quote, FireFox and GS won't let me put the word s.tyle in my post! 

[QUOTE="Caramel_Fantasy"][QUOTE="SailorMars"]

When did Nintendo stop making fun games? and(or) when did fun games stop appearing on Nintendo consoles?

kool_kat18

They didnt. Beleive it or not, the only people who do complain are the hardcore gamers who expect a new and fresh title around the corner every two weeks just because they beat a game in two days. Any normal person with a life can be entertained for 3 to 6 months with the same game before thinking of another. Its just hardcore nerds and nothing more. Other then that, people seem to expect amazing HQ titles within a month after launch. Especially the hypcritical Lems, who obviously forgot about theres.:roll:

Agreed, but i would still play Halo when i get back home from uni instead of mario galaxy, and i reckon Mario is MORE for hardcore gamers than Halo(im only using Halo for arguments sake) because of all the time you have to put in if you really want to complete the game properly. Hell i took Months to complete most Nintendo games.

Nintendo isn't known for their half-assed or buggy games. It all comes down to what kind of games you like though. I like games like Mario, Metroid, Kirby and the like while others might not. At least Nintendo tries to do different things with gaming. Without N's influence, I think all we would be seeing are sandbox games and mindless, plotless shooters. 

[QUOTE="kool_kat18"]

This has always been my problem with nintendo. I cant stand Mario, Kirby etc.... yeah sure the games may be fun, but im always for something deeply involving when it comes to games, something that offers an experience (RE,MGS,FF,HALO) and the fat plumber doesn't do it for me in that sense.

The way is kind of steping away from that direction though, with games lik manhunt etc..... but im sure it will always be considfed kiddy, or as a family system (which is what its meant to be)

Rahnyc4

Agreed on that one, and i do look for relief somwhere else eventually, but im in colege and i have to make a choice, i cant afford multiple systems. Dont get me wrong i really like some nintendo games, mario kart and pokemon especially, but given a choice i would rather go for the games i have listed and the consoles that support them. I might buy a ds for a different expereince.

Two words: Resident Evil.

Banging on about old points is totally not cool. We've heard this argument a million times before, but let me put it this way, is any developer from back then as good now? SEGA? SE? Very few are.

Haha, is this the new excuse?

"lamo Wii lmao", then, "nobody'll buy a gimmick controller!!!", then, "it's teh price point!!", then, "itz just a fad, guyz, right...?", and now, "Nintendo aren't what they used to be".

Let me translate that last one.  "Nintendo aren't what they used to be" can roughly be translated into "Nintendo aren' getting their asses handed to them with developers jumping ship on a monthly basis anymore, and that bothers me because I think gaming can only survive on games that appeal solely to people like me who frequent message boards."

I have no interest in making the PS3 my second console, i would like the 360 to be but they need to fix their hardware problems first, i don't have time or the patience for failing hardware. Think about this, The Wii has sold 6.5 million WITHOUT a Mario game, look at the first week sales of SPM, it was way ahead of other games.

Nintendo_Man

I agree here, but what I see is that Nintendo wants to try to sell consoles without there big name franchises!!! Although they are taking these steps little by little, they want there third party games to sell to keep support in the long run without there games being overshadowed by Mario, Metroid, and Zelda!!!

If you look back in the day, Nintendo were a strong company, had some insane and fun games...expecially in the Snes/N64 era...but since the cube they have gone down hill, IMO. When i say downhill i mean concerning games. These days its nothing more then fancy anime games/mario and a very few decent titles like metroid prime, Zelda, Mario..etc etc. What happen to all the violent games and in fun games in general??? -Maddog-

Oh, I don't know. Maybe the entire RE series on the GC wasn't violent?

Nintendo treat violent games like poison, They seem to rely on nothing but mario/Zelda/MP....wheres all the great 3rd party support?? and why do all the wii games seem rushed, just to add the new controls? Yes its still early...but its best to start early..and knowing there track record with the cube, it has me worried. Its like nintendo don't care or something...and as if gamers wil eat up anything they throw to them. 

-Maddog-

Hmm, at least they rely on quality franchises. and if gamers "eat up" anything thrown at them, that would be the gamers fault, not Nintendo's.

Of course the wii is popular, the new controls and gameplay method introduced has that effect and usually have many buying it at the beginning and it seems fun...but seriouslly, how long will that last..if decent software isn't coming out??? I hope nintendo does something about this and not rely too much on there few good 1st party titles. I really want more games taking advantage of the controls..something i think MP3 will do, but thats one game..and why arn't devs getting better graphics out of it? 

-Maddog-

Why don't you wait a little longer than 6 months?

Your thoughts??? 

-Maddog-

This topic is bunk.

I wouldn't say MP and Zelda are violent...i'm talking games like Silent hill, Resident evil, Dead rising, First person shooters...etc etc. I wouldn't know..but didn't nintendo have blood removed from Red steel or something???

I agree with the person regarding competetion...but nintendo can still do alot more. Also, about the whole "family" audience there targeting...thats good and all but what about the hardcore gamers??? Theres very few titles aimed towards them..and that doesn't seem like changing anytime soon.

 

Snes and n64 seemed to have a way more variety...with shooters, fighters, racers, sports..etc etc...so many to pick from..but its so limited now, IMO.

-Maddog-

Actually in Red Steel and CoD3, there are blood splatters when you score a nice head shot:) 

And i think there are more families than Hardcore gamers....so your point falls flat on it's face...

The industry is changing my friends...Gaming is no longer a hobby for Hermits, but is now growing more widespread everyday....hell even my Dad loves Wii sports, and he's been playing Space Invaders for the past 20 years. 

[QUOTE="SailorMars"]

When did Nintendo stop making fun games? and(or) when did fun games stop appearing on Nintendo consoles?

Caramel_Fantasy

They didnt. Beleive it or not, the only people who do complain are the hardcore gamers who expect a new and fresh title around the corner every two weeks just because they beat a game in two days. Any normal person with a life can be entertained for 3 to 6 months with the same game before thinking of another. Its just hardcore nerds and nothing more. Other then that, people seem to expect amazing HQ titles within a month after launch. Especially the hypcritical Lems, who obviously forgot about theres.:roll:

AAAAAAAAAhhh!!!!!!! My brain is melting from this intelligent post!!!!! NEED DUMB FANBOY POST TO LIVE!!!!

This is a great post BTW!!!! ;)

Also, why do you think a game has to contain violence to be fun? How old are you?

It makes me sad how gamers have lost THEIR touch.

:cry:-Maddog-

That's all I can read there.

Their last great game was OoT and mario64. Metroid prime was also a good game but not on those levels. They do rely to much on mario. He's done for and going the way of sonic. People won't buy a console for him like they did the N64 yet they keep putting him in everything they can think of.elcoholic

Going the way of Sonic? How is that SMG has far better previews than any other game, then?

1UP.com It serves as one of the best examples of what the Wii and its controller are capable of.

Gamespy.com In all honesty, it's the controls of the Wii that make SMG work so well.

IGN.com If you have any fear about whether or not Super Mario Galaxy is a gimmick, or the experience is fun with the Wii remote, lay them to rest. Nintendo's latest update to its clasic franchise is, in a word, intoxicating. The control system is intuitively learned.

Gamespot.com With its intuitive control, sharp visuals, and, of course, the Mario name, Super Mario Galaxy is definitely going to be a game to watch for.

I think they've gone downhill mainly because of their new-found market strategy to deploy innovative, new ideas... Which can sometimes be a good thing, as we've seen with the DS and the Wii, but can definitely be a very, very bad idea with the Power Glove and Virtual Boy.  Also, most of their games are not very mature, so the current market turns more to the PS3 and 360.Killer_Wuggles

Then if your definition of downhill is the success of the Wii and DS, sure it is going downhill.

As for the mature content, it's there: Metroid, Zelda, No More Heroes, Final Fantasy, Manhunt, Godfather, Red Steel, Disaster, Hammer...

If you look back in the day, Nintendo were a strong company, had some insane and fun games...expecially in the Snes/N64 era...but since the cube they have gone down hill, IMO. When i say downhill i mean concerning games. These days its nothing more then fancy anime games/mario and a very few decent titles like metroid prime, Zelda, Mario..etc etc. What happen to all the violent games and in fun games in general???-Maddog-

Nintendo treat violent games like poison, They seem to rely on nothing but mario/Zelda/MP....wheres all the great 3rd party support?? and why do all the wii games seem rushed, just to add the new controls? Yes its still early...but its best to start early..and knowing there track record with the cube, it has me worried. Its like nintendo don't care or something...and as if gamers wil eat up anything they throw to them.-Maddog-

No, Hiroshi Yamauchi treated violent games like poison, Satoru Iwata on the other hand is now attempting to regain all these "lost" titles from the NES/SNES era. The Wii games seem rushed because they are. Nintendo released the Wii information in May of 2006 at E3. This gave developers 6 months to make games for launch. Most games take 18 months to make. Many did not even receive actual Wii dev kits because they were still being manufactured until a couple months ago.

The track record of the Cube is affecting how you view the Wii? The Wii has opened up an entirely new market just like the Playstation did back in 1994. They do care, they care greatly about regaining all the lost third parties who left because of a waining fanbase. Now that they are offering sales, the third parties are jumping back on board.

Of course the wii is popular, the new controls and gameplay method introduced has that effect and usually have many buying it at the beginning and it seems fun...but seriouslly, how long will that last..if decent software isn't coming out??? I hope nintendo does something about this and not rely too much on there few good 1st party titles. I really want more games taking advantage of the controls..something i think MP3 will do, but thats one game..and why arn't devs getting better graphics out of it?

Your thoughts???

-Maddog-

Again, you got to love the whole "Nintendo treats violent games like poison" theory. the problem with the GC is it lacked third-party all together. It just so happens that many violent games are third-party. When people make these ridiculous claims, they somehow forget about RE, Eternal Darkness, True Crime, MoH, MK, etc. All these games were on the GC.

[QUOTE="Killer_Wuggles"]I think they've gone downhill mainly because of their new-found market strategy to deploy innovative, new ideas... Which can sometimes be a good thing, as we've seen with the DS and the Wii, but can definitely be a very, very bad idea with the Power Glove and Virtual Boy. Also, most of their games are not very mature, so the current market turns more to the PS3 and 360.Wintry_Flutist

Then if your definition of downhill is the success of the Wii and DS, sure it is going downhill.

As for the mature content, it's there: Metroid, Zelda, No More Heroes, Final Fantasy, Manhunt, Godfather, Red Steel, Disaster, Hammer...

Yeah, okay, I made a slight typo.  Sue me.

And I do like Nintendo games the most, I'm not hating or anything, but most consumers prefer nitty-gritty action games with tons of gore compared to Mario or Zelda. 

Yeah, okay, I made a slight typo. Sue me.

And I do like Nintendo games the most, I'm not hating or anything, but most consumers prefer nitty-gritty action games with tons of gore compared to Mario or Zelda.

Killer_Wuggles

I wouldn't say MP and Zelda are violent...i'm talking games like Silent hill, Resident evil, Dead rising, First person shooters...etc etc. I wouldn't know..but didn't nintendo have blood removed from Red steel or something???

I agree with the person regarding competetion...but nintendo can still do alot more. Also, about the whole "family" audience there targeting...thats good and all but what about the hardcore gamers??? Theres very few titles aimed towards them..and that doesn't seem like changing anytime soon.

 

Snes and n64 seemed to have a way more variety...with shooters, fighters, racers, sports..etc etc...so many to pick from..but its so limited now, IMO.

-Maddog-

And what exactly is it you want Nintendo to do? Only cater to hardcore gamers? Who make up barely any percentage of the gaming population? Nintendo are a business, and their aim is to make money. Contrary to popular belief, it is not a crime for a business to make money. This route that they're going, targeting mainly non-gamers and casuals, while serving hardcore gamers on the side, has potential to make them far more money then they ever would have had they stuck with the route they wentfor the GC. This is not a "betrayal" or a "backstab", it's business, live with it. They have no obligation to serve pretentious "real" gamers first and foremost, especially when,despite their philosophies on palying games, spend more time complaining about every move made by game companies in the industry.

[QUOTE="Killer_Wuggles"]Yeah, okay, I made a slight typo. Sue me.

And I do like Nintendo games the most, I'm not hating or anything, but most consumers prefer nitty-gritty action games with tons of gore compared to Mario or Zelda.

foxhound_fox

That's funny, because everyone I've talked to at school or elsewhere prefers Grand Theft Auto and Gears of War over Mario and Zelda.