Is weak third party support the biggest flaw with the Wii U?

Let's say that the Wii U got all the same multiplats as the XB1/PS4, would that really make a difference in the long run in terms of overall sales? I just think that the average core gamer just doesn't take Nintendo home consoles seriously anymore. They just look at it as a cheaper more family friendly alternative. A lot of gamers these are interested in competitive online multiplayer and Nintendo hasn't really done much to make their console the place to be for competitive gaming. Their online infrastructure seems aimed towards a younger more casual audience.

In my opinion Nintendo has an image problem when it comes to how core gamers perceive them. Everyone who isn't a die hard Nintendo fan just thinks they're a joke and a shadow of their former glory. So, in the end is Nintendo just going to cater to the 15 million or so die hard Nintendo fans? Is 15 million people enough to keep pumping out new consoles every 5-6 yrs? I just think all this weak third party support is the least of Nintendo's issues.

I think the lack of 3rd party directly relates to how they are percieved. My more casual gamer friends don't really care about it's power vs. the PS4 or Xbone (HD graphics and functional online hide the power gap much better than the Wii ever did), but they do laugh when they see it doesn't even get Fifa or COD, never mind Titanfall, Destiny, Diablo III, Dragon Age III, Batman, etc.

System Wars pretends multiplats "don't count" but in the real world that's what everyone is getting excited for and playing the majority of the time. I got WiiU as a complementary system purely for 1st party games but unless you are big Nintendo nut you don't even need it for that. My buddies enjoy a few rounds of Mario Kart all right, but they think it's pretty nuts I bought the system for just a couple of Ninty games a year.

If Nintendo actually wants to compete against Xbox and PS, they need to bulk out their game library and get the 3rd party devs aboard. But I think they just aren't bothered.

**** no. Biggest flaw is the industry itself along with the general gamer. Just look around the forum. It defies logic the things people say to one another. Wiiu is really the only console worth owning yet people somehow hold some grudge against the thing. When I was a kid and I saw a game, regardless of system, I'd think "wow I'd really like to play that." It was more about the game than any kind of branding. Most 3rd party games are crap anyways.

Yes it is.Wii U will slowly fade away as a party/family console. It's not gonna compete with PS4 and Xbox One.

Third party support makes huge difference . This is the era of multiplatforms , where more and more games are going multiplatform . Wii U could've been a unique platform with all those games + Unique first party games . Fanboys may brag about their "Console Exclusives" but at the end of the day , they play multiplats more than their exclusives . Imagine MGS V , Batman , The Elder Scrolls , Dragon Age and other big third party exclusives , along with Nintendo first party on one system . Who wouldn't want that .?

Most of the people can't make Wii U their primary gaming platform because it lacks third party support , so they pick it up for its exclusives and play on it when they are not gaming on their main platform , while others don't pick it at all because they only want to own one system (or two but they choose another platform as their secondary gaming machine) . It's sad really , since Nintendo is the only company that understands the difference between console and PC gaming . M$ and Sony are just trying to make their consoles , PCs with custom OS and now they are slowly trying to turn them into streaming devices .

There are very few games on Xbox and PS that were originated on consoles and are extremely famous . Most big titles that people brag about these days like GTA , COD , Battlefield , The Elder Scrolls , Witcher , Deus Ex and so on, were all originated from PC . Games like Uncharted , TLOU , GOW etc are famous and good games but they are nowhere near as famous as those PC franchises. Nintendo on other hand has a lot of iconic first party games (Who doesn't know about Mario or Zelda) . All Wii U is missing is third party support .

yup. exactly. Well said.

It's a big problem for Wii U. If I'm a 13 year old kid, I want to play the most popular games with my friends like Call of Duty and Madden. Am I really going to ostracize myself by getting a Wii U? Also, I don't even think the Wii U's current library is that great. Super Mario 3D World, Tropical Freeze, Mario Kart 8 - they are good games, but they're not the "must have" games you gotta buy the system for.

Nah, much like MS started this gen. N just emphasized the wrong message at the wrong time but unlike MS, N hasn't really taken much action to turn things around.

So is Nintendo's future for home consoles just going to be catering towards those 15 million or so die hard Nintendo fans? Is that really enough to sustain a home console business?

If there's an image problem with the hardcore, they shouldn't bother fixing it.

They seem so invested in the concept that "My console of choice will eventually have more good games" ... but then people who like multiplats and only ahve one machine are right... a PS4 has more GOOD games than a Wii U ... HOWEVER ... all of those games are on 2-4 other systems.

As a PC gamer.... every other device is crap in comparison for multiplats, and consoles are losing more and more of those "console only multiplats" again this generation.

The Wii U .... is diffidently the best "companion system" to go with one other main multiplatform machine. and its games actually focus on gameplay, unlike Sony's first party.... which wanna shove me down pretty corridors with crap gameplay.

• The name is a problem, the mass market still doesn't really have a clue as to what it exactly is.
• The tablet controller doesn't have the same simplicity appeal as the wiimote
• The tablet feature hasn't been integrated as brilliantly into gameplay as the wiimote was
• Multiplats are non-existent, yet if they did exist, they'd still be better on the PS4 and X1
• There's also absolutely a lack of 3rd party Wii-u exclusives
• Because while the 1st party exclusives are great, there are just too few of them to carry this console.
• Online gaming isn't executed as well as it is on PS4 and X1
• Digital only is a problem because of the non-existent HD
• While being a great step up from the Wii, the Wii-U is still lacking from a technological perspective.

And that's my personal opinion as a PC/PS4/Wii-U owner.

I like the Wii-U but I'm really glad I have a PS4 as well, which I play way more frequently.

A "serious core gamer"? You mean a teenager who views the term "adult" as a term of approval who cannot enjoy games that might appear to be "kiddie" because it might ruin their reputation amongst their peers.

The lack of third party support is the only flaw of the Wii U platform with talking about. It has a serviceable online (which isn't far off the other two couples these days with DDOS attacks and everything) and amazing first party games that define strong gameplay.

Games have reached that movie-goer crowd of an in-and-out payment method, for the most part. Been using the N64 alot recently. All gameplay. Goldeneye not only holds up but is more enjoyable that most games of today. That risk/reward needs to come back to games.

Indeed.... thing is I find Sony the worst offender of ALL systems.

Microsoft ... at least does online gaming well in its first party games... and funnily enough they are gameplay focused (Halo, Forza, killer instinct ect).

Nintendo ... I don't need to explain.

PC .... most of its most popular games are so gameplay/competitive focused.... cinematic gaming has NEVER been the systems MAIN objective, just a massive plus... console gamers can't see to realise that though.

Sony.... Infamous? BLEH, Killzone LOL , Resistance LOL, LBP ... turned out nowhere near mario quality. All Stars LOL. Uncharted/TLOU pretty games with outdated TPS gameplay..... OH BUT THOSE AWARDS... The Order... SIGH ZZzzzzz

Only Bloodborne stands out because of its gameplay/risk reward/comeptitive .... everything else is a cinematic snoozefest.

Honestly dunno why I bought a PS4.... shoulda just went Xbox One because my only console playing mates have them.... and sony's first party is looking rather bleak ironically.

There are already five different systems that allows you to play multiplatform games. Do we need the Wii U to be another system that is identical to the others? The way the industry is working right now, its making consoles irrelevant especially when cross gen and remasters games are outpacing exclusive current gen games.

One of many mate, one of many.

The lack of third party support, the hardware, the controller, the online service, etc.

I love and respect Nintendo as a company, but the only good thing i see about the WiiU is it's first library.

One of the 3 main issues with why I don't and wont have a Wii U anytime soon..

• Performance is no where near PS4 or X1 levels and even those consoles are weak
• Third Party support is non existent
• First party games are Mario Kart... Zelda... Smash... Mario... yay?

If the Consoles was comparable to X1 in term of power and had all the major third party games and Nintendo put out another Metroid Prime or had a exclusive like Eternal Darkness or Resident Evil 4 for the console... I would get it.

Basically I wanted the Wii U to do what the GameCube did... Be competitive but nope, the Wii U is what the Wii was minus the sales.

No thank you.

Yes it is a problem. Expectantly, since HD game development is much more costly and time consuming. Due to this fact, Nintendo can't sustain the console with first party only anymore because game releases take far to long now.

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Like seriously. Most "core" gamers have this bs notion of what a hardcore game is. True "core" gamers don't play favorites with consoles and they play as many great games as possible despite what system they are on. If financially they are not at a level where they can afford all the systems then of course people will have favorites, and inevitably pick a system.

Sales does not equal quality btw. Wii was one of the best selling Nintendo systems and coincidentally also their worst. Gamecube was one of their worst selling systems and one of their best in quality.

I don't understand why Nintendo doesn't simply just purchase Capcom and maybe Konami or Square Enix as well. They have the cash to do so, and I believe Capcom is open to selling the company.

Most people play multiplatform games, the exclusives are what sets each platform apart. Unfortunately the demand for Nintendo games are not as high as the demand for multiplatform games. Unless Nintendo can make enough games to make up for the lack of third party support I just think they will continue to lose market share in the home console space. I mean is the Wii U really worth the $300 initial investment just to get your Mario/Zelda fix if you already own a PC/PS4/XB1?

Just being different for different sake isn't the answer. Sorry, but the Wii U Gamepad isn't revolutionary. The Wii U is nothing more than a glorified DS without third party support.

How many AAA Nintendo exclusives are going to be released in 2015? 4-5 at most? So if someone only owns a Wii U then they will have about 4-5 games to look forward to each year. Yeah, so worth the $300 investment.

Sales speak for themselves. Obviously Nintendo's "amazing" exclusives aren't good enough to save the Wii U. If they were so great then why isn't there the same demand for those games as say GTA/COD? I mean Mario has been around much longer than COD and GTA, yet those latter franchises destroy Mario in terms of sales. Obviously Nintendo exclusives aren't objectively better than multiplats, because if they were then they would be selling as well as those other franchises. Millions of core gamers would flock to the Wii U if Mario games had the same appeal as COD/GTA.

Lack of 3rd party support, shitty online and weak ass hardware.

So then we all agree that Wii > Xbox 360 and PS3

And while we're at it Wii Sports > The Last of Us, Uncharted 1 - 3, Halo 3, GTA V

Sales speak for themselves right?

The Wii was a fluke that brought in non-gamers. Yes, a lot of people bought the Wii, but a lot of those people stopped playing on them within a year, or two. While on the other hand a good number of people are still playing on their 360's and PS3's. Also, you have to factor in that the PS3 and 360 are competing for the same marketshare. Both the 360 and PS3 sold 80 million units each. Also, a lot of those people own both consoles. If the 360 didn't exist then the PS3 would have sold well over 100 million units. BTW, Wii Sports doesn't count since it was a free pack in.

Wii had only temporary demand. GTA and COD games have consistently had high demand for the past 8 yrs.

Replace Wii Sports with Mario Kart then.

Where's your source on market share? Your initial argument was that sales are what determines whether or not something is "amazing". Don't start moving the goal post now that you put your foot in your mouth.

So in the same way that the Wii sales don't count because they were a different customer base, maybe PS4 sales shouldn't count because the majority are blind fanboys who are loyal because of name recognition, because it sure as hell isn't because of the plethora of games.

The long and short of it is this: Sales don't equal quality. The Wii U is EASILY the best next generation system for now and will continue to be until at least the middle of 2015.

Hardcore Nintendo fans are the ones saying how much better Nintendo exclusives are than multiplats, yet look at the Wii U sales. Obviously, the demand isn't there. People want to play competitive multiplayer shooters, or open world games with non-linear elements. Can Nintendo give gamers those experiences with their first party titles? Where is Nintendo's answer to COD/Skyrim/GTA? They don't have one yet and from what I can tell they aren't even interested in making those kinds of games, so guess what the core gamer will just continue to ignore Nintendo.

Hey, if Nintendo is happy just catering to the 15 million or so die hard Nintendo fans that are left then they can just continue on the same path going forward, but if they ever want to truly compete with the likes of Sony/Microsoft then they will have to change their approach. No more of this ridiculously underpowered garbage with unnecessary controller gimmicks that just drive the price up. They need to start bringing edge to their company and stop worrying about being some family friendly business.

Sony and MS are barely producing AAA games in the first place. It's way to expensive to just produce AAA games now a days and less of them are going to be produced this gen.They both are producing some AA games also. Any AAA game sony usually publishes focuses a bit more on cinematics and story compared to Nintendo and MS(to an extent).Sony and MS are mostly relying on third parties to build their consoles libraries.Nintendo is trying to slowly build up the WiiU's library with a somewhat diverse catologue of games even though these games may not appeal.

@super600:

Sony and Microsoft don't have to make a ton of AAA exclusives because they have strong third party support to fall back on. Nintendo no longer has this luxury so they better get their asses in gear and start making enough games to last a full year without dealing with long droughts. If the success of your system is relied on the output of your 1st party titles alone then you best invest in creating more studios in order to create enough games to keep the consumer interested.

Lack of Third Party support is certainly a contributing factor, but I don't think it is the biggest issue. Nintendo already said what the biggest issue was: Nintendo not doing enough to distinguishing it from the Wii. From a mainstream or hardcore gamer's perspective this is not a big issue, but from a casual gamer's perspective it is. The success of the Wii was an anomaly and could not be repeated; clearly Nintendo had no idea of why it happened because they followed it up with the Wii U which has been a complete failure by comparison.

Most people who bought the Wii bought it because it was the thing to do not because they followed Nintendo. The bought it for Wii Sports or Wii Fit, not for Xenoblade Chronicles or Monster Hunter. These same people do not buy new consoles for the new version of Wii Sports or Wii Fit because they don't care or even know it is old. They don't go to work an talk about what they played over the weekend, they don't care about HD graphics or more robust online features. It is hard to say how many people that bought the Wii actually fall into this category, but we're probably talking in the tens of millions.

On top of that it was difficult to not see the Gamepad as a gimmick, much like Xbox One with Kinect. At least Nintendo took the Wii Remote and Nunchuck and made it essentially required to use the Wii and, ironically, pretty important on the Wii U.

Just by two cents.

What Nintendo fans have to look forward to in 2015 when it comes to first party titles.

Legend of Zelda

Splatoon

Star Fox (Maybe)

Yoshi's Wooly World

Mario Maker

Mario Party 10

I see only 3 games I would be evenly remotely interested in.

no it's the weak and outdated hardware in it

They'd spark more rage than a modern Eminem rap (as if paying for Bayonetta 2 development didn't spark enough).

Eh I don't see how Nintendo is any worse off than the other two. With all the flops that have been coming out more is looking less and less like better every day.

Everyone says that the Wii U is a great companion machine, but I already had a Nintendo companion machine before I got the Wii U - the 3DS. A system that receives both third party support and first party support. While I did get a Wii U eventually, I'm still not sure I'm such a hardcore Nintendo fan that I really need two separate devices for the sole purpose of playing Nintendo games. In this respect, the biggest flaw of the Wii U to me is the existence of the cheaper 3DS. Nintendo definitely needs to move forward in the future with a unified architecture so we don't have to buy multiple systems for the sole purpose of playing their games.

But the lack of third party support and the relative weakness of the console without a doubt play a big part in the console's struggles.

In general? Yes

For me personally? Its the Gamepad's battery life

Well, when it all comes down to it, I think this one sentence encapsulates Nintendo's biggest problem. They do suffer from an image problem. Not helped by Nintendo actually coming out to say they aim to be everyone's second console, and that they are poor at competing. I remember back in the day when Nintendo was a beast of a competitor and company. One that pushed its weight around and wasn't afraid to fight.

Today, they come off as exceptionally conservative and timid in everything they do. They have become largely a laughing stock in many ways. I think this is rubbing off on people. I almost get the feeling like Nintendo doesn't believe in itself, and it makes sense that consumers wouldn't want to support such an attitude. Just my feelings towards them though. I wish they'd grow some balls again and regain that passion and drive they once had.

Again your failure to understand that sales do not equal a good product is at the crux of this issue. You cite Call of Duty as an example that Nintendo needs and answer to. Why? Call of Duty is garbage. Just because it sells to the millions of gamers that blindly buy a product because of name means nothing.

Beyond Good and Evil and Bayonetta are just two examples of exemplary games that did not sell well at all. Those games are bad because the masses didn't purchase them? Of course not.

Nintendo produces QUALITY games.

Source #1 - 5 of the top 10 games

Source #2 - 5 of the top 10 games

And neither of these lists take into account the NES/SNES era, when Nintendo was arguable even better at producing genre defining videogame masterpieces.

i think the biggest issue for the wiiu is that nintendo didnt really have a plan or a focus.

if nintendo want to focus on being peoples one and only console then lack of 3rd parties is certainly one of the biggest problems it has.

if they were more focused on being everyones complimentary console then its not such a big deal.

but the wiiu is a console designed by a company that doesn't know where to focus. they wanted 3rd party support but didnt provide the platform and support for it. they want to increase sales from the estore yet dont have a hard drive in the system. they created a gamepad that has absolutely excellent integration into the system...and cant find a convincing use for it.

they dont seem to have a focus on any sector of the market. its not powerful enough to appeal to the COD crowd nor does it have the online facilities. its not cheap enough for an impulse buy. its not as easy to use as the wiimote. its ill suited to people who use tablets for gaming.

this is in complete contrast to the wii where they knew exactly what they were doing and who they were targeting (they didnt know if it would be successful before release of course but they had a plan).

they remind me of sony with the PS3. the PS3 had so many divisions pulling out of it that the system just suffered and there was no focus. one division wanted it as a development platform for cell based applications. another wanted it as a trojan horse for blu-ray and so on. the developers werent even consulted on its design...a box was just plonked in front of them and they were told "thats the PS3. make games for that". the gaming side of it was more of an afterthought. they ended up with an 800 quid (to manufacture) box that was hard to develop for and the pay off for getting the most out of it wasnt worth it.

now its a different story with the PS4. the goal was simple: make the most powerful and developer frienedly console possible for 400 bucks. job done. the message is out. the PS4 is the PS3s successor and sony have stopped the messing.

What Heirren said is nonsense.

What Nintendo is offering today is obviously lacking something serious to many people that extends far beyond any forum. It is apparently NOT the "only console worth owning". This is the vocal minority. In the end, Nintendo has utterly failed to produce and bring an attractive product to market, be it due to hardware, software, online functionality, worsening third party support, outdated tech, or a combination of all....whatever it may be, debated to death, something is not clicking. If it were, Ninty wouldn't be in this situation. There is no grand conspiracy against them, and even if there were an inherent bias on these boards, how much would that account for such abysmal performance outside of them? I do not believe a few dozen users on GS's boards are representative of so many out there who hold absolutely zero interest in what Nintendo is offering.

When is this persecution complex going to end, and when are people going to start actually holding Nintendo accountable for the situation it finds itself in now instead of pointing the finger at everything under the sun except where the problem may actually lie? Over the years Nintendo has made numerous mistakes, poor choices, and oversights time and again that are now finally catching up to them. I'm quite frankly tired of being continually blamed for Nintendo's failings because I guess I fall into the "core gamer" category and find the majority of what they put out to be incredibly rote, by the numbers, safe, conservative and predictable and also disagree with some of their anti-consumer business practices (that neither Sony nor MS do). Yet apparently I'm somehow obligated to value what Nintendo does these days for no other reason than simply because they're Nintendo. Forget that. Nintendo does not hold a monopoly on what constitutes great gaming these days and I owe them nothing.

• I'm not obligated to subpar and half-assed online
• I'm not obligated to gimmicks
• I'm not obligated to suffer continual droughts
• I'm not obligated to region locking and digital account policies that reside in the year 2001
• I'm not obligated to poor Western software support

I suppose I do "hold a grudge" against Nintendo, but it's in no way preceded by a "somehow". I know how and why, and if you wonder why people do, you either are ignorant or delusional. Those who point the finger at the industry and gamers to account for Nintendo's situation are ridiculous and demonstrate a degree of fanboyism that is off the charts. Nintendo is in no way blameless. But you go on believing that it's all the consumer's and industry's fault and that Nintendo continues to be perfect if it makes you feel better about their predicament.

bump

YES!

Can you imagine if Madden 15, Destiny, Diablo III, Tomb Raider Definitive, Minecraft, COD, MGS Phantom Pain, GTA V, ect.. ect.. ect.. were released on the WiiU (even with downgraded specs)?

It's possible the Wii-U would still be in the lead. But Nintendo's arrogance and ignorance has decided the WiiU's fate.

Nintendo had games announced back in January 2013 which are coming out next year which is more than what Sony and Microsoft have been showing off for 1st party games. As for the third party support, Its much better to go with the PC version has it allows more options, better performance and are not behind a pay wall. While the Ps4 and Xbox One version plays identical to each other and the majority of the time it runs at the same framerate as the last gen version.

1.) The online on Mario Kart 8 and BLOPS 2 works perfectly fine. Not half-assed in the least. Are there BETTER services. Yes. Does that negate the fact that Nintendo offers online services? No. Not only that but Miiverse is actually and interested and creative way to experience online. And its absolutely free.

2.) The tablet controller isn't a gimmick. It is underutilized by Nintendo and other developers but it isn't a gimmick. If it's a gimmick than so is connect and Vita's PS4 functionality.

3.) So you must not game on Xbox One or PS4

4.) Digital accounts I agree with.

5.) The Western support is gone yes I agree. But many of the games you are referencing are underdelivering or delayed.

You're not obligated to many of those things. You're right. But it's BS to try and paint a picture that isn't there. Nintendo doesn't sell because people perceive them to not be the IT console. Or the coolest company.

I game on EVERY console. But I'd be foolish to ignore one company because of the perception that people have about a particular company.

It's not simply "a lack of 3rd party support". It's more like Nintendo's lack of concern for Western audiences as a whole.

well i suppose my lists are factual enough. the only opinion bit is how much of a snoozefest linear corridor graphic whoring non-gameplay focused games are... but I'm sure game populations and cult fandom would be in my opinion's favour im sure... but oh those awards right... from critics... which are currently under fire for being usless in our industry.

i don't know what's up with the wii u.