Indy Dev here with my opinion on X-one and PS4.

This topic is locked from further discussion.

#1 Edited by dillywhole (6 posts) -

This may be a little long... fair warning..
First of all do I expect any of you to take my word that I am indeed a developer working with these systems? No...That being said read the following if you wish and take what you want from it. I was a frequent poster on these forums before programming became a career and as I was hired we were asked to limit the amount of time we spend on forums and obviously not post any information about our projects. I'm not willing to tell you the name of the project I'm currently apart of as I don't want my opinion to reflect onto the company I work for. To the good stuff:

The PS4 has been a dream to work on, it's easy and the dev environment is pretty mature considering these consoles have yet to launch. Sony has supplied us with some great drivers to work with allowing us to pump out 1080p games easier then on the X1. That being said, the X1'x dev environment still has some maturing to do. The software and drivers we've been given so far have been good, but not as well optimized as the PS4's and this is why you may see some games on the X1 in 720P or 900P compared to the PS4's 1080 but this will quickly change and 1080p on both consoles will be standard.. The PS4 dev environment will of course improve over time but does not have the amount of improvement room that the X1 has right now, I suspect the X1 will eventually pair up with the PS4 but never surpass... It almost feels as though the X1 was a little rushed and Microsoft wasn't quite ready to get a new system out this year... The esRAM has been interesting to work with, it is an evolution over the 360's option and we've been pretty impressed with the amount of bandwidth gained from taking advantage of this little cache. These consoles are very very close in terms of raw dev power and in my opinion the X1 will surprise some people. Tiled Resources is a new type of coding we have seen in Aplha on the X1 and it's going to turn some heads in the dev world. There's a reason the X1 was shipped with a 4K rated HDMI cord...Tiled resourcing will eventually allow us to take huge 4K textures and compress them down to 1080p sizes allowing us to pump out 4K res without taxing the X1. I believe we will see 4K content on these systems in the form of movies and maybe some small indy games but don't hold your breath on a 4K halo or 4K Killzone, the power just isn't there.

Overall it's refreshing to see some new hardware to work with as the 360 and PS3 were really starting to show their age. Both of these consoles are great to work with and their much closer in terms of performance then the general public seem to understand. The PS4 is just a pure powerhouse in the console world and you will see amazing things from it. We don't even come close to touching its potential and we thought our project was going to be somewhat demanding. The X1 is the same, taking advantage of the esRAM has really surprised us as we were dreading the idea of working with it at first.

My advice.. be patient...both of these consoles are going to give you guys some amazing visuals and experiences.. don't let fan boyism get in the way of experiencing both.

#2 Posted by timbers_WSU (5753 posts) -

Sure you are.....

#3 Edited by NeonNinja (17318 posts) -

WE CAN ONLY AFFORD ONE! THE OTHER IS INFERIOR!!!!

#4 Edited by XxR3m1xInHDn3D (1967 posts) -

Sure you are.....

An indie dev is the equivalent of some band on bandcamp.

#5 Posted by waltefmoney (18030 posts) -

@timbers_WSU said:

Sure you are.....

An indie dev is the equivalent of some band on bandcamp.

I don't think so. Music is not like gaming, anybody could make a song that's as good as the biggest musicians in the world. An indie dev can't make a game with the assets and polish of a big triple A title.

#6 Posted by megaspiderweb09 (3646 posts) -

Good on you sir, i have also grown tired of the need for people to constantly dedicate loyalty to a company like it is weekend football team. I tried the Xbox one and i was so impressed i pre ordered the console, even though my interest is still highly vested in the playstation 4, at the end of the day, they are both products, not spouses or some mafia gang. Games like Ryse, Killer Instinct, Forza look amazing and anyone who gets the Xbox One launch day would be happy with it, going around crapping on it is not fair to the amount of investment these hard working people have put into it, at the end of the day, it is humans who make these things, humans who have families to feed and i may sound like an hormonal teenage girl now but sometimes when i see people online forget its humans that live on the other side of the ISP's, it makes me want to exit the internet entirely but whatever right, the anonymous Cyberspace has equiped us with tongues of venom so we can spit fire at people who have put years and money into creating products they are passionate about....end of rant

#7 Edited by Heil68 (40473 posts) -

The PS4™ system focuses on the gamer, ensuring that the very best games and the most immersive experiences are possible on the platform. The PS4™ system enables the greatest game developers in the world to unlock their creativity and push the boundaries of play through a system that is tuned specifically to their needs. The PS4™ system is centered around a powerful custom chip that contains eight x86-64 cores and a state of the art 1.84 TFLOPS graphics processor with 8 GB of ultra-fast GDDR5 unified system memory, easing game creation and increasing the richness of content achievable on the platform. The end result is new games with rich, high-fidelity graphics and deeply immersive experiences.

An indie developers dream come true.

#8 Posted by WTA2k5 (3997 posts) -

WE CAN ONLY AFFORD ONE! THE OTHER IS INFERIOR!!!!

Welcome to System Wars.

#9 Posted by donalbane (15848 posts) -

Thanks for you insights... what you said about the Xbox One being behind from a driver/software perspective is in alignment with what Major Nelson recently said in a newegg TV interview. He basically said that their programmers were going to make the console more effective over time, which is a nice way of saying that they are behind at the moment. Good luck with your game.

#10 Posted by shawn30 (3696 posts) -

Sounds more than reasonable, and I'm hoping its true. Thank you. In time we'll certainly see and then look back and compare if you were right or not.

#11 Posted by Douevenlift_bro (4948 posts) -

Sure you are lol

#12 Posted by _Matt_ (8332 posts) -

@timbers_WSU said:

Sure you are.....

An indie dev is the equivalent of some band on bandcamp.

No, not at all. Many indie devs are highly talented artists, designers, and programmers. In fact it can be quite demanding to be an indie developer, since you have to be profficient with many skills, unlike an employee of a large studio, who only needs to be skillful in likely a single area.

#13 Edited by tdkmillsy (977 posts) -

I'm getting an Xbox one and without encouraging Sony fanboys, this sounds very much like the case. Hence the delays in COD resolution. Microsoft will be helping get it up before they announce what it is.

I like the sound of the potential.

#14 Edited by EnviousEyezOnMe (244 posts) -

I'm going to believe this guy. Why? Because regardless if he is a dev or not...What he is saying is just common sense. Good luck with your game.

#15 Posted by blackace (18466 posts) -

WE CAN ONLY AFFORD ONE! THE OTHER IS INFERIOR!!!!

Your comments are inferior. The XB1 potential is through the roof. All their games will be 1080p @60fps once devs get familiar with Tile Resources and the eSRAM cache. With the dedicated cloud server in place, the games and AI will be amazing. The Ps4 is already a powerful system and will also produce some stunning exclusive games and comparable multiplats. There's no doubt both systems will be successful, which is why I'm getting both.

#16 Edited by Shewgenja (6823 posts) -

$400 is a good price on a sure thing. This also does nothing to assuage the assertion that we may very well be on the precipice of another RROD debacle.

#17 Edited by OneInchMan99 (1127 posts) -

You're a dev and I'm the Prime Minister of Great Britain,so its all good,lol

#18 Posted by clyde46 (42020 posts) -

@timbers_WSU said:

Sure you are.....

An indie dev is the equivalent of some band on bandcamp.

This one time, at bandcamp...

#19 Posted by clyde46 (42020 posts) -

You're a dev and I'm the Prime Minister of Great Britain,so its all good,lol

Tory scum.

#20 Edited by ronvalencia (15065 posts) -

@NeonNinja said:

WE CAN ONLY AFFORD ONE! THE OTHER IS INFERIOR!!!!

Buy both. AMD needs the money.

#21 Posted by 2mrw (4950 posts) -

What is your take on cloud processing?

#22 Posted by hoosier7 (3283 posts) -

@2mrw said:

What is your take on cloud processing?

This plus what do you think may happen nearer the back end of the gen when the last ounces of power are trying to squeezed out? Will the PS4's GPGPU compute provide any advantage in that area?

Do you know much about the more political side? How has it been dealing with the two companies and which has been easier to get the tools to do what you want to do?

#23 Posted by Jakandsigz (4512 posts) -

Why is my plagiarism checker off the radar into 76%?

#24 Posted by Sweenix (5095 posts) -

You shouldn't have posted this on system wars

This place is filled with idiots/alts/fanboys/fanboyalts/shitposters

Goodluck with your game btw :)

#25 Posted by Gue1 (8082 posts) -

blog it

#26 Posted by danabo (2474 posts) -

Wii U developer here and I just wanted to share some readily available insight you may have overlooked -

"The Wii U gamepad is actually a second console with a GPU. When the new consoles release Nintendo plan to run the Wii U and pad in SLI which will increase the graphical performance way beyond what the PS4/Xbox One can do - it will actually be more comparable to an extremely high-end PC set-up."

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Nintendo+Wii+U+Teardown/11796/2

#27 Posted by Kinthalis (5091 posts) -

Tiled Resources is a new type of coding we have seen in Aplha on the X1 and it's going to turn some heads in the dev world. There's a reason the X1 was shipped with a 4K rated HDMI cord...Tiled resourcing will eventually allow us to take huge 4K textures and compress them down to 1080p sizes allowing us to pump out 4K res without taxing the X1.

What? 4K resolution has nothing to do with 4K textures, and you don't compress 4K textures ot 1080p. If you did, they wouldn't be 4K textures.

#28 Posted by ankor77 (926 posts) -

I like the OP simply because he seems to be speaking with some common sense and not taking sides. Dev or not i like the thoughts and wish more people here had that type of attitude.

BTW I am loving the Indie surge. There are some huge indie games coming despite the "bandcamp" comment. Technically Chris Roberts Star Citizen is an indie game since he is not partnering with EA or another huge company and that game is a massive project(which looks amazing).

#29 Posted by the_bi99man (10916 posts) -

@XxR3m1xInHDn3D said:

@timbers_WSU said:

Sure you are.....

An indie dev is the equivalent of some band on bandcamp.

I don't think so. Music is not like gaming, anybody could make a song that's as good as the biggest musicians in the world. An indie dev can't make a game with the assets and polish of a big triple A title.

Black Mesa, Chivalry, and Path of Exile say hi.

#30 Posted by Teuf_ (30805 posts) -

Tiled Resources is a new type of coding we have seen in Aplha on the X1 and it's going to turn some heads in the dev world. There's a reason the X1 was shipped with a 4K rated HDMI cord...Tiled resourcing will eventually allow us to take huge 4K textures and compress them down to 1080p sizes allowing us to pump out 4K res without taxing the X1.

If you really are a dev then I hope you're not a programmer, because the things you're saying here don't make any sense. But of course if you really were a dev with access to PS4 and XB1 dev kits you certainly wouldn't be reckless enough to break your NDA on System Wars of all palces, so yeah...

#31 Posted by RoslindaleOne (7564 posts) -

I will try not to let too much information get out, but I'm a developer too. I commend you for your post. I've been lucky enough to work with the Xbox One and the Playstation 4 and I've found it easier for the PS4 to have 1080p games over the the Xbox One because poop.

#32 Edited by Couth_ (9678 posts) -
@teuf_ said:

@dillywhole said:
Tiled Resources is a new type of coding we have seen in Aplha on the X1 and it's going to turn some heads in the dev world. There's a reason the X1 was shipped with a 4K rated HDMI cord...Tiled resourcing will eventually allow us to take huge 4K textures and compress them down to 1080p sizes allowing us to pump out 4K res without taxing the X1.

If you really are a dev then I hope you're not a programmer, because the things you're saying here don't make any sense. But of course if you really were a dev with access to PS4 and XB1 dev kits you certainly wouldn't be reckless enough to break your NDA on System Wars of all palces, so yeah...

I reckon he is not a dev, because if I have learned anything about devs from this forum is that they are all lazy (Lazy Devs)...And a lazy person wouldn't type up that huge wall.

Also, there's also nothing in the OP that can't be gathered from all the mumbo jumbo system talk on here daily. OP basically said a lot of nothing with some sugar on top..

#33 Edited by KellyKelly (377 posts) -
#34 Edited by kitty (113959 posts) -
#35 Posted by Sweenix (5095 posts) -
#36 Edited by daveg1 (20318 posts) -

cool storey bro..

#37 Edited by trasherhead (3052 posts) -

Why would you need a 4K cord to deliver a 1080p frame? Its not the cord that lets you downsample the textures.

#38 Posted by TheShensolidus (191 posts) -

Sorry, OP, but you have no idea what you are talking about. You may be an indie dev, but you are not working on Xbox One I can guarantee that. The initial batch of registrations for ID@Xbox.com don't even go out till AFTER the console comes out. And Sony has 'handed you drivers'? Either you are watering down jargon to the point of idiocy ( I know most people wouldn't understand what are the SDK, dev tools, and OS-level API, but cut these people some slack). You are (poorly) regurgitating information you have heard in passing in here and other boards.

As for you alluding to there being some sort of magic trick that ESRAM is going to pull off in order for the games to reach parity... ugh. This is the worst kind of fanboy rhetoric I have seen.

I'll put it out there bluntly, and its unfortunate because no fans will be able to verify what I am saying as true until a few years after the consoles are out and the generation is underway. While working with ESRAM WILL get easier, and there will be standardized practices for X1 specific memory management threads, it doesn't put it in contention with what the PS4 is doing. All streamlining ESRAM does is make it so that game development for the platform itself stops getting in its own way. This of course doesn't mention the other development hurdles MS has tackle in order to reach development parity with Orbis (lack of a 'Xbox Neighborhood' like connection between dev PC and the dev console, no proper coredump or call stack writing, no proper thread reporting on colliding OS tasks on the CPU or GPU).

On the flip side, PS4 development has been incredibly simple, getting code up and running takes 3-4 weeks on average for almost every developer i've spoken to, and the customizations they have made to the hardware have created this incredible growth ceiling that we haven't begun to see yet. If you think games on the platform look at all good now, I can assure you, you will be thinking they looked awful in comparison to what you will see in 3 years.... then 5 years...

#39 Posted by blackace (18466 posts) -
#40 Edited by ronvalencia (15065 posts) -

@Kinthalis said:
@dillywhole said:

Tiled Resources is a new type of coding we have seen in Aplha on the X1 and it's going to turn some heads in the dev world. There's a reason the X1 was shipped with a 4K rated HDMI cord...Tiled resourcing will eventually allow us to take huge 4K textures and compress them down to 1080p sizes allowing us to pump out 4K res without taxing the X1.

What? 4K resolution has nothing to do with 4K textures, and you don't compress 4K textures ot 1080p. If you did, they wouldn't be 4K textures.

Metro 2033 PC has 2048x 2048 rez textures, while current gen consoles has 1024x1024 rez textures. Higher texture resolution are required to minimize pixilation issues.

#41 Posted by I_can_haz (5686 posts) -
#42 Edited by ronvalencia (15065 posts) -

Sorry, OP, but you have no idea what you are talking about. You may be an indie dev, but you are not working on Xbox One I can guarantee that. The initial batch of registrations for ID@Xbox.com don't even go out till AFTER the console comes out. And Sony has 'handed you drivers'? Either you are watering down jargon to the point of idiocy ( I know most people wouldn't understand what are the SDK, dev tools, and OS-level API, but cut these people some slack). You are (poorly) regurgitating information you have heard in passing in here and other boards.

As for you alluding to there being some sort of magic trick that ESRAM is going to pull off in order for the games to reach parity... ugh. This is the worst kind of fanboy rhetoric I have seen.

I'll put it out there bluntly, and its unfortunate because no fans will be able to verify what I am saying as true until a few years after the consoles are out and the generation is underway. While working with ESRAM WILL get easier, and there will be standardized practices for X1 specific memory management threads, it doesn't put it in contention with what the PS4 is doing. All streamlining ESRAM does is make it so that game development for the platform itself stops getting in its own way. This of course doesn't mention the other development hurdles MS has tackle in order to reach development parity with Orbis (lack of a 'Xbox Neighborhood' like connection between dev PC and the dev console, no proper coredump or call stack writing, no proper thread reporting on colliding OS tasks on the CPU or GPU).

On the flip side, PS4 development has been incredibly simple, getting code up and running takes 3-4 weeks on average for almost every developer i've spoken to, and the customizations they have made to the hardware have created this incredible growth ceiling that we haven't begun to see yet. If you think games on the platform look at all good now, I can assure you, you will be thinking they looked awful in comparison to what you will see in 3 years.... then 5 years...

OP is not the only one who used "drivers" on PS4. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-how-the-crew-was-ported-to-playstation-4

Other devs statements could be true for their game's requirements i.e. it depends on what you are doing.

#43 Posted by 5dlrbill (90 posts) -

@Couth_ said:
@teuf_ said:

@dillywhole said:
Tiled Resources is a new type of coding we have seen in Aplha on the X1 and it's going to turn some heads in the dev world. There's a reason the X1 was shipped with a 4K rated HDMI cord...Tiled resourcing will eventually allow us to take huge 4K textures and compress them down to 1080p sizes allowing us to pump out 4K res without taxing the X1.

If you really are a dev then I hope you're not a programmer, because the things you're saying here don't make any sense. But of course if you really were a dev with access to PS4 and XB1 dev kits you certainly wouldn't be reckless enough to break your NDA on System Wars of all palces, so yeah...

I reckon he is not a dev, because if I have learned anything about devs from this forum is that they are all lazy (Lazy Devs)...And a lazy person wouldn't type up that huge wall.

Also, there's also nothing in the OP that can't be gathered from all the mumbo jumbo system talk on here daily. OP basically said a lot of nothing with some sugar on top..

I said the same thing,allyou have to do is alt account troll around in sw and notebook bits and pieces of topics and blam ama indii dev praising your console of choice,not hard to do and am on the slow side lol

#44 Posted by 2mrw (4950 posts) -

TC didn't respond to a single Q or post :lol:

He must be a developer for sure :D

#45 Edited by remiks00 (1069 posts) -

Sorry, OP, but you have no idea what you are talking about. You may be an indie dev, but you are not working on Xbox One I can guarantee that. The initial batch of registrations for ID@Xbox.com don't even go out till AFTER the console comes out. And Sony has 'handed you drivers'? Either you are watering down jargon to the point of idiocy ( I know most people wouldn't understand what are the SDK, dev tools, and OS-level API, but cut these people some slack). You are (poorly) regurgitating information you have heard in passing in here and other boards.

As for you alluding to there being some sort of magic trick that ESRAM is going to pull off in order for the games to reach parity... ugh. This is the worst kind of fanboy rhetoric I have seen.

I'll put it out there bluntly, and its unfortunate because no fans will be able to verify what I am saying as true until a few years after the consoles are out and the generation is underway. While working with ESRAM WILL get easier, and there will be standardized practices for X1 specific memory management threads, it doesn't put it in contention with what the PS4 is doing. All streamlining ESRAM does is make it so that game development for the platform itself stops getting in its own way. This of course doesn't mention the other development hurdles MS has tackle in order to reach development parity with Orbis (lack of a 'Xbox Neighborhood' like connection between dev PC and the dev console, no proper coredump or call stack writing, no proper thread reporting on colliding OS tasks on the CPU or GPU).

On the flip side, PS4 development has been incredibly simple, getting code up and running takes 3-4 weeks on average for almost every developer i've spoken to, and the customizations they have made to the hardware have created this incredible growth ceiling that we haven't begun to see yet. If you think games on the platform look at all good now, I can assure you, you will be thinking they looked awful in comparison to what you will see in 3 years.... then 5 years...

Spoken like a true Dev. ;)

#46 Posted by Gama_Forever (2644 posts) -

Maybe these games will look amazing on PS4 and all that but it's like I honestly don't care. Online and UI is what will be the most important thing moving forward. Xbox has been on top of this since their first console. They found their niche. Snapping apps and group skype while playing games is going to be dope especially for casters. It's just like, yeah, it probably will take some time for people to get used to the new tech and maybe the Xbox is less powerful by 900 GABAJILLION percent. But who cares if the games all play the same and the multiplayer games are better on X1. We have Halo, TItanfall, and Sunset Overdrive. Halo will have a demo at E3 2014 like they did in 2012 before they released Halo 4. It might release in Fall 2014 alongside games like The Division, COD Black Ops 3, Dragon Age Inquisition, The Crew, maybe The Witcher 3 (I think this game is coming out in Spring 2014 though but I'll be cautious).. I'm just saying, who really cares? I don't. I don't even have a 1080p TV.

#47 Posted by Pray_to_me (2462 posts) -

I'm a developer and see cuz teh drivers need an update we can no do 1080p yet but soon yea please believe thankyou.

#48 Posted by s0ldier69 (2062 posts) -

This whole indie game thing is a joke. I know it's "the in thing" to want but the numbers don't lie. Nobody buys this crap. 99% of indie games are pure trash. When it comes down to it, people want AAA, high production games, and that's what sells.