Final Fantasy VII (PS) VS Planescape Torment (PC)

The vanilla PC version is worse, with MIDI-quality audio. But the modded PC version is better than the PS1 version.

The PC re-release has fixed sounds and everything runs at MUCH higher resolutions. Right now, the PC version is more relevant conisdering people are actually playing that and is owned by 871,517 players on steam

Good luck calling Planescape Torment "garbage" and being taken seriously by any gaming circle. FF VII is widely considered one of the most overrated games of all time.

The actual playing it part is atrocious. FFVII at least has a cool battle system and some fun dungeons and bosses to fight. Planescape's entire draw is the story (as evidenced by this thread) and I couldn't care less about video game stories.

Where is Final Fantasy VII "widely considered one of the most overrated games of all-time"?

This is fibs.

For me Planescape Torment is a far superior game and story.

Well you'll be pleased to know it's getting a spiritual successor

https://torment.inxile-entertainment.com/game

Not sure if you'll ever see it on a console though.

Just curious, but where did you get that number from?

Anyone who calls FF7 "garbage" shouldn't be taken seriously either by any gaming circle. There's a huge difference between "overrated" and "garbage".

Planescape Torment. It had something that virtually no other game had: a genuinely good story

I find it laughable that this day and age we have people slamming Uncharted for having excellent cinematics and average gameplay calling it a movie but heap praise on what basically amounts to a visual novel with some combat strung in to break up the boredom. I think I saw more combat in a half of Final Fantasy VII's first disc than I did in all of Planescape.

Decimated.

Played 30 minutes of PT and I got bored. Interesting story and setting but the gameplay is beyond bad (mediocre by 1999 standards).

And I don't even think FFVII is anywhere near the best RPG of all time.

Except for visual novel games, which often have better-written stories than PST. But it definitely has a better-written story than most non-VN games... because PST is like a visual novel itself in many ways.

lol what?

both are good but i enjoyed ff 7 far more.

So it's the overrated FFVII vs. Planescape: Torment, The game that PC gamers love to praise as a means to legitimize themselves as PC Gamer e-hipsters despite not actually playing it.

Great thread.

Planescape Torment makes you think and engage. Uncharted does not.

So does a book or a visual novel. Having the story be the only thing good about a game doesn't excite me much.

Please be a joke post. You can't just press 2-3 QTE buttons and watch a movie for 4 hours to beat Torment.

Neither. Give me FF6, or Chrono Trigger vs. BG2

But if I had to choose, FF7. I had a lot of fun with it and tbh, when it first came out I thought it was the best shit ever. No way I'd play through either of the two these days though.

Word both of those are better

You're right. All I have to do to beat Torment is basically read the story. It's a glorified "choose-your-adventure" book.

You are sitting there and telling me movie games like Uncharted and The Order have more to do than Torment? Yeah okay...

Pretty much. I value gameplay over everything else. GAMEPLAY. You know, doing stuff? The reason people play games? If I wanted to read something for hours on end, I would read a book.

ugh..

Planescape torment had better gameplay than the games you mentioned. It also has better gameplay than FF7.

Also:

Planescape Torment is a good book.

Uncharted and the Order are bad movies.

Wow, hell of a shitty opinion on Torment. What were your thoughts on Baldur's Gate?

Well, we will have to agree to disagree. To me, FFVII > Planescape Torment, Uncharted and The Order in terms of gameplay. Planescape has average at best gameplay and gets through with its good story.

Probably one of the best crpgs I've played. Certainly better than Planescape in the gameplay department.

FF VII > Unchartered > Torment > The Order 1886 :P

To each their own, unique opinion you guys have there on Torment.

Steamspy records steam sales somehow. But it glitches out whenever free week comes along, otherwise, it is perfect.

I didn't call FF7 garbage. I was defending Planescape.

Planescape by far. If it were FFIX I'd have a hard time choosing.

Final Fantasy VII.

Didn't know about that site before. Thanks.

I know you didn't, but one of the posters within the quotes did. It's nonsense to call either FF7 or PST "garbage". Just because someone thinks one is better, that doesn't make the other one trash.

I don't think FF7 is garbage because Planescape is better. I think FF7 is garbage because I think it's garbage. I find it's plot to be atrocious, I find the characters to be completely ridiculous, silly, and badly written in a manner that could only be justified with "it's a video game" , "it's a jrpg", or "it was 1997". I also don't particularly care for the battle system being a rather dull iteration of the battle system of its predecessor, with long ass summons, nor am I fond of the materia system, which just created an arbitrary twist to giving characters whatever skill I want, which FFV does better already.

Was it well produced in 1997 sure? Is there anything else I actually have to respect about the game? Actually no, hence why I think it's garbage. Planescape I just straight up enjoy.

I've noticed you like to use the word "garbage" quite a lot...

Would you prefer bad game?

"I find it's plot to be atrocious, I find the characters to be completely ridiculous, silly, and badly written in a manner that could only be justified with "it's a video game" , "it's a jrpg", or "it was 1997"."

If that was all true, then why did millions of gamers cry and/or get depressed when Aerith died? Clearly the game did something right with the plot and characters to have had such a powerful emotional impact on the audience.

"I also don't particularly care for the battle system being a rather dull iteration of the battle system of its predecessor"

FF V, VI and VII all used iterations of FFIV's ATB combat system. Don't see your point.

"I fond of the materia system, which just created an arbitrary twist to giving characters whatever skill I want, which FFV does better already."

FFVII's materia system was more flexible and customizable than FFV's job system.

First one is a fallacy that just because there was a popular reaction to something, it must be true or of quality. In contrast the sequence can be straight up manipulative and bullshit, which is my reaction to that sequence. So my answer to your why is low standards and bad taste. Because her death is completely devoid of merit as the game does such a poor job of actually building her up into anything interesting.

Yeah the combat another one after 4 and 6 (didn't play V until a few years ago), at that point I just didn't give a shit, and FF7 barely added anything of value other than long ass summons. I found the materia system to be a needless chore in comparison to the job system, what flexibility or customization does it actually offer over FFV's jobs? I want them to learn a thing, they take this role, they do it, they get said ability, and then I lineup my menus from there. It was bitchin in FF five, it was still a great system even in something like Bravely Default (shitty second half aside). Anything it does more than that would come off pointless.

"First one is a fallacy that just because there was a popular reaction to something, it must be true or of quality."

As opposed to your argument that something is bad/garbage just because you say so?

"In contrast the sequence can be straight up manipulative and bullshit, which is my reaction to that sequence. So my answer to your why is low standards and bad taste. Because her death is completely devoid of merit as the game does such a poor job of actually building her up into anything interesting."

Her death resonated with millions of players not because there was anything "manipulative" about her death, but because her death was handled in a believable manner. Why? Because Hironobu Sakaguchi was drawing from his own real-life experience of losing his own mother (who died when he was working on FFVI), and he wanted to convey the feelings he felt, of mental shock and loss and emptiness, in FFVII. And in turn, those feelings resonated with millions of players.

"FF7 barely added anything of value other than long ass summons."

It introduced limit breaks, which added a lot of value to the combat.

"I found the materia system to be a needless chore in comparison to the job system, what flexibility or customization does it actually offer over FFV's jobs?"

In FFVII, you can switch materia between characters at any time outside of battles. And you can mix and match abilities however you want just by mixing and matching different materia, without having to go through the lengthy process of having to master an ability first. It was the first to break away from the class system of previous FF games. FFVII's materia system was one of the most flexible and customizable systems in the series.

As opposed to me stating my opinion in a thread that asked about an opinion. You are trying to argue against my opinion with opinions, bottom line I find the game to be bad, you are then annoyed by it because what?

Millions of players can feel whatever they want, what they got was something poorly written, poorly constructed, and contrived for the sake of a reaction that he wanted them to feel. It's not something earned frankly. Limit breaks were already a thing in FF6, it was called a desperation attack, instead this time they made a straight forward thing you charge up for an over powered attack. Which goes back to the difference between "barely" vs "not adding" value to the thing beyond long ass summons, so no thank you.

"As opposed to me stating my opinion in a thread that asked about an opinion. You are trying to argue against my opinion with opinions, bottom line I find the game to be bad, you are then annoyed by it because what?"

Good for you.

"Millions of players can feel whatever they want, what they got was something poorly written, poorly constructed, and contrived for the sake of a reaction that he wanted them to feel."

Presenting death in a realistic and believable manner is an example of quality writing, not "poorly constructed" or "contrived" writing.

"It's not something earned frankly."

Did you use Aerith much in the game? And did you make Cloud go on a date with her?

"Limit breaks were already a thing in FF6, it was called a desperation attack, instead this time they made a straight forward thing you charge up for an over powered attack."

FF6's deperation attacks are a very different mechanic from FF7's limit breaks. The former is more like Toshinden's desperation attacks, while the latter is more like Street Fighter's super combo attacks. The latter adds more depth to the combat than the former.

"Which goes back to the difference between "barely" vs "not adding" value to the thing"

The same could be said for FF5 and FF6. It's not like they added more to FF4's ATB combat system than FF7 did.

Okay starters you need to learn how to quote

Second of all this clearly bothers you more than it bothers me, because you have clinged on to wanting to discuss whether or not I'm allowed to react to a game, not enjoy it, and then consider it a bad game, because you cling to shitty argumentum ad populum arguments like "millions of people loved it in 1997 so it must be good" So Transformers must be good because millions of people watch it, Justin Bieber must be a great singer because millions of people like his music, Call of Duty must be a good game because millions of people buy it every year? You see what I'm saying? I'm willing to to chit chat with your other points, because at least there is a rhyme and reason behind them, and it focuses on the game itself. But don't tell me I have to like or call something quality because others thought it was quality, that is a logic fallacy, and in theory you are an adult who should know what a logic fallacy is.

Presenting death in a realistic and believable manner is an example of quality writing, not "poorly constructed" or "contrived" writing.

Except it's not remotely realistic or believeable in the context of that game universe. It's a cliche death at best. I'm sorry you're fond of giving video game story elements credit when they are "good for a video game", I'm not.

Did you use Aerith much in the game? And did you make Cloud go on a date with her?

Yes on the date, no on actually using her as part of the main group. I just leveled her up to keep pace with my main team in case she was needed.

FF6's deperation attacks are a very different mechanic from FF7's limit breaks. The former is more like Toshinden's desperation attacks, while the latter is more like Street Fighter's super combo attacks. The latter adds more depth to the combat than the former.

It's effectively the same thing, in one it was a bit more random, in the other it's a meter. In SF it's interesting because of mind game purposes, footsies, and set ups. In FF it's an ace in the hole type move to make an already simplistic style of combat more in the players favor.

The same could be said for FF5 and FF6. It's not like they added more to FF4's ATB combat system than FF7 did.

Which comes back to me liking the combat in those other games more, really not a complicated thought process here. You can grow tired of something overtime, it is not a hard concept. I don't need to go from FF4 to FF 6 and instantly feel like this is more of the same. It's called a threshold mate. By the time I got to FF7 on the PS1 I did not enjoy it, I found it boring.

We are going to go around in circles of

Gagan doesn't like Final Fantasy 7 and thinks it's a bad game

and

Jag85 likes Final Fantasy 7 and thinks it's a good game

@jg4xchamp:

But millions bro. MILLIONS.

What about my pain?

Never forget:

#my mouth is dry.

#my fingers are tingling.

#my eyes are burning.

Realistic portrayal of death? Damn good dope? Either way it's a winner.

FFVII. ATB never gets old. Materia still one of my favorite FF customization systems, even though it could be exploited all to hell. Plus, it makes hipsters lose their shit when you say you like it. The same hipsters that pretend they played Planescape. Win. Win. Flawless victory.

"Second of all this clearly bothers you more than it bothers me"

I don't think so... not after you just posted a 12-line paragraph in response to a 3-word comment.

"Except it's not remotely realistic or believeable in the context of that game universe. It's a cliche death at best. I'm sorry you're fond of giving video game story elements credit when they are "good for a video game", I'm not."

By fantasy standards, a "cliche death" would be if she died in a blaze of glory. The way she died in FFVII was not a blaze of glory, but she was just killed off like some useless grunt, with no meaning or purpose behind her death (until the ending, that is). It's a believable death by fantasy standards (despite some corny dialogues).

"Yes on the date, no on actually using her as part of the main group. I just leveled her up to keep pace with my main team in case she was needed."

The gamers who spent the most time developing her were usually the ones most hurt by her death.

"We are going to go around in circles"

I was starting to think the same thing... Agree to disagree then?

lol was at that point awhile ago.

It was a big deal for a lot of us at the time it came out and had quite the impact for RPG fans. It wasn't as ground-breaking as, say, Super Mario 64 for platformers, or GTA 3 for open world games, but the new format allowed for a bigger adventure than we were used to at the time, and the cinematics were big scale as well.

I lol'd about the hipster comment. :D

Found it funny how many answers admitted to not playing one of them, but still choosing one.