Final Fantasy IX coming to PlayStation Store soon!

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]fighting God or religionhakanakumono

It sounds like you don't have a very good understanding of Xenogears.

Anyways, humans rising up against powerful oppressive forces is an archetype held by many stories. As for fighting Gods or religion specifically, no it wasn't very common in JRPGs. The only game I can think of was fighting YHWH in one of the original Megaten games (which I only know about because I read about the series). But Xenogears isn't about "fighting God or religion," and anyone who claims this probably doesn't have a very good understanding of the game. Furthermore, sometimes it's how things are handled that set them apart.

One of the Final Fantasy Legend games, forgot which one...Breath of Fire II and FF Tactics come to mind...its now cliched in JRPGs to have a religious bad guy, with FFXIII being the latest. They main not be the main theme, but they are predominately featured. "Anyways, humans rising up against powerful oppressive forces is an archetype held by many stories" archetype "Religion or a God like figure being the antagonist" cliche

Simply put....Xenogears is a good game, but the flaws keep it from greatness. It was unfinished plain and simple and unfinished games like KOTOR II and Fallout 2 didn't reach their full potential because they were unfinished. Xenogears is the same way. Plus, the story feels forced, especially with all the symbolism. Yes, it is convoluted and it is known to be. Then there is the disc 2 pacing dropoff.

Suikoden II, FF Tactics, Valkyrie Profile, FFIX, Legend of Mana (with its flaws), and Vagrant Story are all better PSRPGs than Xenogears.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]fighting God or religiontexasgoldrush

It sounds like you don't have a very good understanding of Xenogears.

Anyways, humans rising up against powerful oppressive forces is an archetype held by many stories. As for fighting Gods or religion specifically, no it wasn't very common in JRPGs. The only game I can think of was fighting YHWH in one of the original Megaten games (which I only know about because I read about the series). But Xenogears isn't about "fighting God or religion," and anyone who claims this probably doesn't have a very good understanding of the game. Furthermore, sometimes it's how things are handled that set them apart.

One of the Final Fantasy Legend games, forgot which one...Breath of Fire II and FF Tactics come to mind...its now cliched in JRPGs to have a religious bad guy, with FFXIII being the latest. They main not be the main theme, but they are predominately featured. "Anyways, humans rising up against powerful oppressive forces is an archetype held by many stories" archetype "Religion or a God like figure being the antagonist" cliche

Simply put....Xenogears is a good game, but the flaws keep it from greatness. It was unfinished plain and simple and unfinished games like KOTOR II and Fallout 2 didn't reach their full potential because they were unfinished. Xenogears is the same way. Plus, the story feels forced, especially with all the symbolism. Yes, it is convoluted and it is known to be. Then there is the disc 2 pacing dropoff.

Suikoden II, FF Tactics, Valkyrie Profile, FFIX, Legend of Mana (with its flaws), and Vagrant Story are all better PSRPGs than Xenogears.

God isn't a villain in FF Tactics. I thought you liked that game?

No that's an archetype. You're just calling it a cliche because you don't understand what a cliche is. Anyways, (young) Japanese are typically suspicious of organized religion and that's why we see religious entities present in JRPGs. Religions that are based upon the western brand of Christianity, particularly catholocism come across as particularly exotic which is why we see that influence JRPGs. It has nothing to do with cliche's, it has more to do with modern culture's perception of religion. The games that we play now are culturally relevant.

Okay, I'll take your word for it. :roll: Meanwhile, Xenogears is a far better game than Suikoden II.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

It sounds like you don't have a very good understanding of Xenogears.

Anyways, humans rising up against powerful oppressive forces is an archetype held by many stories. As for fighting Gods or religion specifically, no it wasn't very common in JRPGs. The only game I can think of was fighting YHWH in one of the original Megaten games (which I only know about because I read about the series). But Xenogears isn't about "fighting God or religion," and anyone who claims this probably doesn't have a very good understanding of the game. Furthermore, sometimes it's how things are handled that set them apart.

hakanakumono

One of the Final Fantasy Legend games, forgot which one...Breath of Fire II and FF Tactics come to mind...its now cliched in JRPGs to have a religious bad guy, with FFXIII being the latest. They main not be the main theme, but they are predominately featured. "Anyways, humans rising up against powerful oppressive forces is an archetype held by many stories" archetype "Religion or a God like figure being the antagonist" cliche

Simply put....Xenogears is a good game, but the flaws keep it from greatness. It was unfinished plain and simple and unfinished games like KOTOR II and Fallout 2 didn't reach their full potential because they were unfinished. Xenogears is the same way. Plus, the story feels forced, especially with all the symbolism. Yes, it is convoluted and it is known to be. Then there is the disc 2 pacing dropoff.

Suikoden II, FF Tactics, Valkyrie Profile, FFIX, Legend of Mana (with its flaws), and Vagrant Story are all better PSRPGs than Xenogears.

God isn't a villain in FF Tactics. I thought you liked that game?

No that's an archetype. You're just calling it a cliche because you don't understand what a cliche is. Anyways, (young) Japanese are typically suspicious of organized religion and that's why we see religious entities present in JRPGs. Religions that are based upon the western brand of Christianity, particularly catholocism come across as particularly exotic which is why we see that influence JRPGs. It has nothing to do with cliche's, it has more to do with modern culture's perception of religion. The games that we play now are culturally relevant.

Okay, I'll take your word for it. :roll: Meanwhile, Xenogears is a far better game than Suikoden II.

[QUOTE="Zanoh"]

[QUOTE="farnham"]

definately the best FF after Final Fantasy I, VI,VIIand VIII by far..

Rockman999

fixed.

Better a momma's boy than an insane god that gives the main party hope even after he destroyed everything. Fixed:P

Will buy.

cool cool

Nice, i would so buy this as soon as i can, still need to buy 7 and 8 from PSN.

I remember when every other person on these forums hated IX, now they love it... hmm.

By far the best FF ever made.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

It sounds like you don't have a very good understanding of Xenogears.

Anyways, humans rising up against powerful oppressive forces is an archetype held by many stories. As for fighting Gods or religion specifically, no it wasn't very common in JRPGs. The only game I can think of was fighting YHWH in one of the original Megaten games (which I only know about because I read about the series). But Xenogears isn't about "fighting God or religion," and anyone who claims this probably doesn't have a very good understanding of the game. Furthermore, sometimes it's how things are handled that set them apart.

hakanakumono

One of the Final Fantasy Legend games, forgot which one...Breath of Fire II and FF Tactics come to mind...its now cliched in JRPGs to have a religious bad guy, with FFXIII being the latest. They main not be the main theme, but they are predominately featured. "Anyways, humans rising up against powerful oppressive forces is an archetype held by many stories" archetype "Religion or a God like figure being the antagonist" cliche

Simply put....Xenogears is a good game, but the flaws keep it from greatness. It was unfinished plain and simple and unfinished games like KOTOR II and Fallout 2 didn't reach their full potential because they were unfinished. Xenogears is the same way. Plus, the story feels forced, especially with all the symbolism. Yes, it is convoluted and it is known to be. Then there is the disc 2 pacing dropoff.

Suikoden II, FF Tactics, Valkyrie Profile, FFIX, Legend of Mana (with its flaws), and Vagrant Story are all better PSRPGs than Xenogears.

God isn't a villain in FF Tactics. I thought you liked that game?

No that's an archetype. You're just calling it a cliche because you don't understand what a cliche is. Anyways, (young) Japanese are typically suspicious of organized religion and that's why we see religious entities present in JRPGs. Religions that are based upon the western brand of Christianity, particularly catholocism come across as particularly exotic which is why we see that influence JRPGs. It has nothing to do with cliche's, it has more to do with modern culture's perception of religion. The games that we play now are culturally relevant.

Okay, I'll take your word for it. :roll: Meanwhile, Xenogears is a far better game than Suikoden II.

Xenogears is the deeper story, but Suikoden II's story is better told and breaks most of the genre's norms.

By far the best FF ever made.

Jackopeng

I own this for ps1, bought it and have not opened the box, it is still sealed:D

Not sure if anyone keep up with PSN charts but Final Fantasy VII ever since it was releaed on PSN last year on E3 the game been always the top selling game on there and Final Fantasy VIII comes close to second. now that we have FFVII and FFVIII it was a matter of time till FFIX gets annouced. Square Enix producer Shinji Hashimoto tweeted that more info on the downloadable version will be coming next week. yup now that FFIX is coming to PSN hopefully Sony and Square will release FFX and FFX-2 on 1 blu-ray with tropheis :D

Link

finalstar2007

:cry: About time!

Finally, more people will get to play this gem of a game. It's funny, charming and has excellent characters. Zidane,Garnet, Steiner, Vivi, Amarant, Freya, Quina... awesome party.

well, i already own it but at least theyre releasing a good game for once on psn

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]

One of the Final Fantasy Legend games, forgot which one...Breath of Fire II and FF Tactics come to mind...its now cliched in JRPGs to have a religious bad guy, with FFXIII being the latest. They main not be the main theme, but they are predominately featured. "Anyways, humans rising up against powerful oppressive forces is an archetype held by many stories" archetype "Religion or a God like figure being the antagonist" cliche

Simply put....Xenogears is a good game, but the flaws keep it from greatness. It was unfinished plain and simple and unfinished games like KOTOR II and Fallout 2 didn't reach their full potential because they were unfinished. Xenogears is the same way. Plus, the story feels forced, especially with all the symbolism. Yes, it is convoluted and it is known to be. Then there is the disc 2 pacing dropoff.

Suikoden II, FF Tactics, Valkyrie Profile, FFIX, Legend of Mana (with its flaws), and Vagrant Story are all better PSRPGs than Xenogears.

texasgoldrush

God isn't a villain in FF Tactics. I thought you liked that game?

No that's an archetype. You're just calling it a cliche because you don't understand what a cliche is. Anyways, (young) Japanese are typically suspicious of organized religion and that's why we see religious entities present in JRPGs. Religions that are based upon the western brand of Christianity, particularly catholocism come across as particularly exotic which is why we see that influence JRPGs. It has nothing to do with cliche's, it has more to do with modern culture's perception of religion. The games that we play now are culturally relevant.

Okay, I'll take your word for it. :roll: Meanwhile, Xenogears is a far better game than Suikoden II.

Xenogears is the deeper story, butSuikoden II's story is better told and breaks most of the genre's norms.

Suikoden II is the journey of a mute adolescent who watches as everyone around him fights a "war" through a series of Deus ex Machina, but he takes all of the credit for it.

I said either god or religion...the church is a villain in FF Tactics. Its a cliche and has become one. The religious or godly antagonist has been overdone in the genre. Its not an archetype. it doesn't matter if it a culture's perspective on religion, the evil church or diety element is overdone, like the brooding loathing protagonist and the anime chick sidekick. A game that handles religion very well is Dragon Age, highlighting both the good and the bad of organized religion.

Xenogears is the deeper story, but Suikoden II's story is better told and breaks most of the genre's norms.

texasgoldrush

So JRPGs aren't allowed to cover religion as a subject matter because otherwise they are cliche'd? Antagonistic religions and gods were hardly prevelant in the genre. On the other hand, prior to Suikoden II there were countless stories of rebels taking over kingdoms. The hilarious thing about all of this is that Xenogears is far less cliche'd than Suikoden II by a long shot. Especially by your standards. In Suikoden II there are countries which are antagonists. Therefore, it is terribly cliche'd. This is too easy.

Suikoden II is the journey of a mute adolescent who watches as everyone around him fights a "war" through a series of Deus ex Machina, but he takes all of the credit for it.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]

I said either god or religion...the church is a villain in FF Tactics. Its a cliche and has become one. The religious or godly antagonist has been overdone in the genre. Its not an archetype. it doesn't matter if it a culture's perspective on religion, the evil church or diety element is overdone, like the brooding loathing protagonist and the anime chick sidekick. A game that handles religion very well is Dragon Age, highlighting both the good and the bad of organized religion.

Xenogears is the deeper story, but Suikoden II's story is better told and breaks most of the genre's norms.

hakanakumono

So JRPGs aren't allowed to cover religion as a subject matter because otherwise they are cliche'd? Antagonistic religions and gods were hardly prevelant in the genre. On the other hand, prior to Suikoden II there were countless stories of rebels taking over kingdoms. The hilarious thing about all of this is that Xenogears is far less cliche'd than Suikoden II by a long shot. Especially by your standards. In Suikoden II there are countries which are antagonists. Therefore, it is terribly cliche'd. This is too easy.

Suikoden II's war is country vs country, not evil empire vs rebels like the first game. and the protagonist country, Jowston, is not all good either and is paying for the sins of the past in multiple ways. In fact, most of the characters serving Highland can be considered good and honorable and many of the characters on Jowston's side are shady. This breaks cliche because instead of an evil country vs a good country, or an empire vs rebels, in the end, its two countries fighting for the same end, peace...through the annihilation of the other.

Funny you mention Xenogears...its a save the world from the bad guy plot. I think Krelian is a bright spot for Xenogears but it is cliche. So is the amnesic protagonist. While it has its twists and turns that are original, the plot itself is cliche.

As for this... "Suikoden II is the journey of a mute adolescent who watches as everyone around him fights a "war" through a series of Deus ex Machina, but he takes all of the credit for it."

Ever thought that that is a theme of a game...children fighting adult wars. The use of child soliders. The adults influence the protagonist. He is a figurehead and a symbol. A theme of the game is breaking free of these influences and to follow your own path...which the canon ending follows.This subverts the cliche of a youth hero...in many JRPGs featuring young protagonists, their youth is either celebrated or ignored...in Suikoden II, its put in a tragic light. Through moral choices, unlike most JRPGs, you and Nanami can leave the war early and end the game 4/5 of the way through. A silent protagonist works because he is like a WRPG character, you provide the dialouge and make decisions, while most are false choices, some big choices are not.

Deus ex machina my ass...........if you talk about Shu, he turns the war around but doesn't fix everything. In fact, he doesn't get full credit for solving the Luca Blight problem. Very few metaphysical aspects as well. Really this game avoids this.

So JRPGs aren't allowed to cover religion as a subject matter because otherwise they are cliche'd?

Because it has been done over and over. Here is a good uncliched way of handling religion....do not make them an antagonistic force, like Dragon Age Origins.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

God isn't a villain in FF Tactics. I thought you liked that game?

No that's an archetype. You're just calling it a cliche because you don't understand what a cliche is. Anyways, (young) Japanese are typically suspicious of organized religion and that's why we see religious entities present in JRPGs. Religions that are based upon the western brand of Christianity, particularly catholocism come across as particularly exotic which is why we see that influence JRPGs. It has nothing to do with cliche's, it has more to do with modern culture's perception of religion. The games that we play now are culturally relevant.

Okay, I'll take your word for it. :roll: Meanwhile, Xenogears is a far better game than Suikoden II.

Xenogears is the deeper story, butSuikoden II's story is better told and breaks most of the genre's norms.

Funny you mention Xenogears...its a save the world from the bad guy plot.

texasgoldrush

Oh, okay. :roll: Praytell, who is the "bad guy" in Xenogears? Just for fun.

If Xenogears is cliche'd because the religion is portrayed in a negative way, then Suikoden II is cliche'd because an underdog is portrayed in a positive way.

[QUOTE="jasonharris48"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] I said either god or religion...the church is a villain in FF Tactics. Its a cliche and has become one. The religious or godly antagonist has been overdone in the genre. Its not an archetype. it doesn't matter if it a culture's perspective on religion, the evil church or diety element is overdone, like the brooding loathing protagonist and the anime chick sidekick. A game that handles religion very well is Dragon Age, highlighting both the good and the bad of organized religion.

Xenogears is the deeper story, butSuikoden II's story is better told and breaks most of the genre's norms.

texasgoldrush

All told with a disney lens!

[QUOTE="jasonharris48"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] I said either god or religion...the church is a villain in FF Tactics. Its a cliche and has become one. The religious or godly antagonist has been overdone in the genre. Its not an archetype. it doesn't matter if it a culture's perspective on religion, the evil church or diety element is overdone, like the brooding loathing protagonist and the anime chick sidekick. A game that handles religion very well is Dragon Age, highlighting both the good and the bad of organized religion.

Xenogears is the deeper story, butSuikoden II's story is better told and breaks most of the genre's norms.

texasgoldrush

It's no Naruto, but it's not nearly what he describes it as either.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]

Funny you mention Xenogears...its a save the world from the bad guy plot.

Oh, okay. :roll: Praytell, who is the "bad guy" in Xenogears? Just for fun.

If Xenogears is cliche'd because the religion is portrayed in a negative way, then Suikoden II is cliche'd because an underdog is portrayed in a positive way.