Dear Lizard Squad, no, we gamers don't buy it

To start this rant off, I want to clarify that I have experience as a network operator and know very well the type of attack Lizard Squad used to take down PSN and XBox Live. I've read several articles and Twitter feeds that claim, in effect, that Lizard Squad is saying they attacked the networks in order to show how "vulnerable" they are to attacks and how easy they are to take down as a result.

There is a big fundamental problem with their statements and I am uniquely qualified to draw a line in the sand with these fuckasses. I hope they can hear me. The problem is that the nature of their attack is to overwhelm the respective networks with useless data. It's not a hack so much as the internet equivalent of being the dickhead in a men's restroom who left a cigarette wrapper or food wrapper in a urinal to clog it/overflow it. It doesn't take a genius to carry this out and even worse, it doesn't take a genius to stop it..

What it does take, is money. PSN and Live are going to need more bandwidth, more equipment, more software to monitor said equipment. In short, the only way to negate a DDoS is to spend a whole bunch of money on stuff that is doing a whole bunch of other things than accepting your connection... YOUR login. And I have a really big problem with that. You definitely should, too. That's money being spent on their script kiddy bullshit antics that could be spent for expanding what the service actually does. That's money being spent on network redundancy that could be spent on better freebies each month like PSN+ and your Live Gold free games. That is money and equipment that could be used to stand up IPTV services or faster cloud gaming..

Lizard Squad should not be allowed a free pass on bullshitting the public and definitely not bullshitting gamers. What they are doing is destructive. In terms of talent and messaging, they did not deserve to be given the pulpit the press is giving them, but they did take down two networks on Christmas day for optimum exposure. Sadly, they did a whole lot more than ruin a few kids Christmases. Now there is going to be a whole bunch of stuff in all likelihood sidelined while Sony and MS sink resources into standing up redundancy to handle these DDoS floods in the future. We all got screwed.

They're full of shit. I think everyone knows this.

They are a joke. They are just script kiddies gathering together to do it for the lulz. Anyone can do what they did with a quick google search. Then you just get a bunch of other people to do it at the same time. Which is super easy because of the hive mind mentality on the internet.

When you can get thousands of people to sign petitions for pointless things on the internet, it's not hard to round up a bunch of people to screw over the "evil micrsoft" and "evil Sony.

I definitely don't have experience or knowledge in networking so it's been good to see others with the knowledge to spell out what probably happened.

What's to stop people doing an attack like this indefinitely? Serious question here, sorry if it's borderline sad that I don't know. This just isn't my field of study. :P

I think everyone no matter what fanboy creed can agree that Lizard Squad are some real assholes.

Other companies have been targeted by even harder attacks have shown to be better prepared to get shit running faster though.

These are paid services and there seems to be no organized protocols in place to deal with this entry level "hack".

@Shewgenja:

Be that as it may, it can't be denied that either company wasn't really prepared for it and one of the two had a craptastic reaction time (Sony). For a paid service, no matter how one puts it, the reaction time should have been much faster. That shows a lack of preparation, a lack of a proper contingency plan of any sort, even a lack of means or knowledge (or both) to fight against it.

I'm glad that everything is in order right now, but they'll need to step up their game. If that means more redundant hardware, more engineers, etc, then be it. It's a paid service now. It's not a freebie in which an unexpected or prolonged downtime can (sort of) be "accepted".

Furthermore, considering the amount of money moved in these services and the number of people it can potentially affect, both companies need to realize that they are "ripe targets" for attacks. For now it's simple DDoS bullshit that doesn't do tremendous amounts of harm, but what happens if some pro-group decides to have a decent go at it? They need to have at least decent "panic mode" solutions/fixes for these scenarios.

@Shewgenja: Lizard Squad are full of shit

Lizard Squad are doing it for nothing more than attention. I think what needs to happen is severe penalties both criminal conviction and financially penalty when these people are caught. The terrorist threat a while back was disgraceful, especially to people who have been affected by it. If they catch the terror threat group, send them to Guantanamo and that will sort them.

Anyone who supports paying for online deserves it.

That's what's truly destructive in gaming. Happy to see people standing up to those foul practices.

It was a very uncool thing to do--Microsoft and Sony should really do all that they can to improve their security. For me, I'm strictly streaming--just not a cool scenario with all the games being played for "Lulz".

TC, you are wrong on a couple of fronts as far as DDoS attacks and how to fight/prevent them but i think we agree that Lizard Squad sucks.

Fighting DDoS attacks starts with how your network is designed in the first place.

Having 1 or 2 central servers naturally leave you open to simpler attacks.

With the right network setup, you can simply reroute incoming data or traffic to other data centers or scrubbers to at least filter out a ton of useless or duplicate data or requests.

I think this is why MS was able to get up and running so fast. They have a network of what....300k servers? They could easily reroute incoming data to other data centers and scrub the data and get back up.

I dont think PSN has NEARLY as many servers and isnt set up the same way.

Also, they need to be tested regularly for such attacks as MS does regularly having a cloud-based network.

Sony needs to fire whoever is in charge now and hire some guys from Google, IBM, Apple, SOMEBODY who has major network experience.

Sony is a hardware company so its tough to learn on the fly. This is why they are far better at hardware than MS but MS has always been better at software and networking. They need to outsource it........like MS should do with hardware design lol

*claps vigorously* spot on my old chum, could not have put it better , the more people see this the better.

Lizard Squad can't be flooding these networks from multiple locations so quickly that MS and Sony don't have enough time to respond.

they are though, thats the problem , several different cells from several different countrys including the UK and netherlands and it's a sustained attack.

Someone bashes your door for long enough they WILL break through.

Everyone is vulnerable to DDOS attacks , Amazon, Google and Mastercard where already taken down by DDOS attacks.

Money. That's what the tc said in the OP. Instead of spending cash to build higher functioning network features, they'll have to spend it on expanding traffic capacity. If it keeps happening, these companies are liable to start passing the buck on to you and I. Imagine PS+ yearly subscriptions going up to $100 per year, for instance. It might happen.

Really? Really? So we as consumers who are paying for online services because we decide it is worth the money are to blame? So Lizard Squad is the modern day Robin Hood? Dont make me laugh. These guys just want attention, there is nothing Selfless in their motives.

As far as paid online goes, I believe I get a ton of value from xblive/psn for about 50 bucks a year. I get free games, a(for the most part) working online experience except whe these asshats decide they want to have fun. The internet generation has grown up with free. Well there are costs on MS/Sonys end that need to be covered as well. They are trying to make money here. And for the most part the more money they make the better products we are going to get(as long as we are rewarding good products with sales).

Neither Sony or MS is forcing you to pay for live or PSN. Its a choice and I feel like I am getting value for my 50/year. If steam asks for 50/year as well I am going to fork it over as long as they keep my experience at a high level.

I don't buy it either. They could have been ethical hackers, taken down a non-essential component within the network and then notified Sony. Instead, they knowingly chose to ruin people's fun and at Christmas Day, no less.

Bingo.

As much as they are dicks, it is just as much a fucking joke that Sony and Microsoft got this easily clowned.

@Shewgenja:

Fantastic post

Well, one of the guys behind the attack is basically caught. Our police is only wondering if they can arrest and charge him with anything. If not, then they wait if some other country, most likely USA, will want him. To be honest, I rather have our police and courts to deal with him. At least they won't destroy him like would most likely happen in the US. Just give a reasonable fine and a lecture: Don't do it again. Boys are boys and teenagers are idiots and they didn't do anything serious really, so no need to be too harsh.

If he'll do it again, then put him in a dungeon and eat the key.

@Icarian:

Now the problem is what is a reasonable fine. Sony and MS are currently paying out extra to staff to work overtime to restore services, cost of any additional hardware and cost of lost revenue from online sales. Would it be fair and reasonable to impose the cost of all this onto the guy who got caught when he's convicted? Sony and MS could say they are only looking to recover the additional costs they have paid out and let the legal system set an amount for the lost revenue.

Well said and I agree.

Lizard Squad is the reason why the Government wants to control the Internet.

True, but making 16 year old kid to pay millions will put him in so much dept that his life is almost over before it fully started. And MS and Sony will never see that money anyway.

All I know is that I keep getting told that, with DDOS attacks....it's only a matter of how much you can get together to flood the servers. And in essence....meaning that no matter how good your system is designed....no matter how many servers you have...no matter all of that crap....it's still going to happen if ppl want to flood the servers bad enough.

So....yeah...good job LS for proving what seems to be understood.

yeah but lets be real though, The attacks stopped and PSN stayed down an additional 2 days while XBL struggled but never went completely down for any extended amount of time. XBL was still usable x-mas night meanwhile PSN was unusable on xmas eve, xmas, and 2 days after the attacks. That is not acceptable from sony. lets not just blame the hackers.

I agree and hope it can be prevented min the future.

You miss the point completely because you're a fanboy that wants this to mean something it doesn't. XBL could have been kept down longer if LizardSquad simply pointed their entire botnet at Live as opposed to both PSN and Live. Clearly, they spent a lot of time putting together the farm of attacking systems because they made this threat a while back.

Sorry to say, but you're expecting a feather in your cap where there is none to be given. However they went about orchestrating this attack from their botnet, it can be done again and in much larger numbers as long as LizardSquad is capable. Quit being a dipshit.

@Icarian:

If everyone was let off with every crime they committed. This problem us that a ddos seems a bit of a laugh, let's take these Sony dicks offline lulz... The real issue is that it's costing many thousands, hundreds of thousands of pounds to restore these services. A ddos is no way related to the security of a service, granted it shows how well a service is setup or can cope but if Lizard Squad and the like had the "people's" best interest at heart, why are they leaking the info with social security numbers online.

Not a fanboy and I didn't miss the point. I never blamed Sony for PSN going down during the attack. I understand that regardless how big your network is, it can be attacked and taken down. What I said was that its completely unreasonable for Sony to stay down for 2 additional days after the attack was stopped. AKA it wasn't Sony's fault PSn went down on xmas, it was the hackers. It WAS Sony's fault that PSN was down for an additional 2 days after the hackers stopped with the DDoS attacks.

And looking for a feather in my cap? lol Hardly, your the one being a dipshit who loves sony so much you'll look for any excuse to defend them. Sorry but i spent money on a PS4 (and PS3 and PS2 and PS1) and I spend money on PSN+ its not unreasonable for me to want what I'm paying for to be working. I'm a sony fan and have been probably longer then you've been alive. I'm also a Microsoft fan and somewhat a Nintendo fan but not much anymore. I just call things how i see it, instead of being a blind fanboy.

The attacks continued. I take back what I said, because you are just misinformed and that can happen to anybody.

no the attacks stopped the morning of the day after xmas. XBL was back online by then, PSN continued to stay down for 2 more days.

http://www.businessinsider.com/playstation-is-still-down-2014-12?utm_source=microsoft&utm_medium=referral&utm_term=windowsapp

http://www.ibtimes.com/playstation-network-psn-still-down-three-days-after-initial-attack-18-hours-after-1768128

There is nothing in either article to suggest that the attack on PSN stopped, just that XBL restored service. It's entirely likely that LizardSquads botnet is still transmitting garbage. Read this and this will make a lot more sense.

http://www.esecurityplanet.com/network-security/5-tips-for-fighting-ddos-attacks.html

You never really "take down" a network by DDoS. You simply clog the gateway to the server or service so much that legitimate traffic is pushed out. You don't hit the 'off button' on a DDoS attack and then the target network has to fix anything. It's very unsophisticated.

The debt really isn't much of a punishment. They will just declare bankruptcy and be back to normal in about 10 years. A better punishment would be a 10 year sentence to work for Microsoft Tech support. Let them listen to old people ask them why their computer isn't turning on all day long for 10 years.

I know what a DDoS attack is and how it works, the issue is after they stopped, PSN couldn't handle the xmas traffic of everyone trying to get back in. So they hid behind the hack, by limiting access to PSN. You could have bypassed it by changing the MTU on your PS4's network settings to get in, which many did to get back online saturday instead of waiting until sunday. It was mishandled by Sony every step of the way. LS flat out said they stopped the attacks in exchange for some lifetime memberships to mega. XBL went right back online, Sony stayed offline for another 2 days. thats not acceptable.

If they did that, it is because they wanted to have usable logs or packet captures of the illegitimate traffic.

which would be easier to obtain if it was running. your delusional, there is no excuse for them being offline 2 days after the attack when XBL was up and running the same day. Your just making excuses for sony.

No, I don't really care why they were down for extra time. No one knows but their network architect and a hand full of their staff. Lizard Squad are the bad guys here and nothing you say distracts from that. That is the point.

Changing the MTU on packets is a clear indicator that Lizardsquad was using fragmenting packets at the gateway. FYI.

So, again, cease with the nonsense.

If I had to wager a guess, Microsoft has something like a BigIron or FastIron that could redirect the bogus traffic after they sifted out the good from the bad whereas Sony went the less sophisticated route of determining the MTU of the original packets hitting their gateway (Somewhere in the neighborhood below 1500) and thwarted the bogus traffic that way but also kept legit users off the network as a result. At any rate, what's done is done. Just don't take LizardSquads shit ass excuses. What they did was for exposure. Not your well-being as a paying customer.

@darkangel115: don't know what your smoking I got online at 2 am friday morning in East coast usa on PSN. Was able to download all the updates to my games the whole time during xmas and Netflix too. I was also playing online on PSN both Friday and Saturday.

Then why have other companies had problems with DDoS attacks?

This crap didn't affect me personally (I don't have a paid subscription to either PSN or XBL) but that doesn't mean Lizard squad aren't a bunch of dicks.

What I find most disturbing from the Sony and MS side of this is they were given a lot of notice that Lizard Squad were going to attack their networks on Christmas day. Neither Sony or MS appear to have done anything to protect themselves or their paying customers online services and that is pretty disgusting. They pretty much sat back and allowed the networks to be taken down and dealt with the consequences after that (one better than the other)

I'm not defending the script kiddy group's actions, regardless of what they are claiming their reasons were. Both companies have suffered from major real hacks in the past and should be far more durable than they are to any attacks. How long was PSN down for last year, 2 months?

Not possible here in Finland, the kid is a Finn. You can't declare yourself to bankruptcy here. You pay part of all the money you make in the future to settle the debt. It may take your whole life. We have other ways to deal with huge debts, but because the debt is caused by a committed crime he may not be allowed to use those.

What is with the name "Lizard Squad"? Do they like have a hard on for reptiles? Do they play with their lizards an unhealthy number of times daily? All of the above?

Also shows how unequipped they both are in handling server loads, every time a big hyped game that focuses on mp they always seems to have problems on their end in handling the loads.

Well... At least they offer games with the subscription. That kind of levels it out.