Chris Taylor to Hermits: YOUR INDUSTRY IS DYING BECAUSE OF PIRACY

Wow talk about Hermit denial. A huge developer talks about piracy being the problem with PC games and each Hermit comes on to say its not that big of a deal. Really its your attitudes which are forcing games from your platform. If you think piracy is no big deal I'm thinking there will not be another Crysis for you guys. They will just be like Epic and start making the Xbox their lead platform. Why do you think they recently anounced a version of Crysis for each system?

PC sales declined 6% last year. link.

Crysis which was hyped as much as Halo3 can only sell a million in two months, thats pitiful.

Yeah PC sales are not dying, they are just in resession.

Wow talk about Hermit denial. A huge developer talks about piracy being the problem with PC games and each Hermit comes on to say its not that big of a deal. Really its your attitudes which are forcing games from your platform. If you think piracy is no big deal I'm thinking there will not be another Crysis for you guys. They will just be like Epic and start making the Xbox their lead platform. Why do you think they recently anounced a version of Crysis for each system?

PC sales declined 6% last year. link.

Crysis which was hyped as much as Halo3 can only sell a million in two months, thats pitiful.

Yeah PC sales are not dying, they are just in resession.

Vylence

"Chris Taylor: Well one of the key things that is really affecting the economics and the success of gaming in general is piracy on the PC. So one of the reasons we'll see RTSs on the console is because people can't pirate it. That's why we're going to see a lot more of everything on the console. When you look at the sales of really hardcore games like Crysis and you think, "Wow, those games should have sold a lot more," you realize that's probably due in large part to piracy. And you realize that a game like Crysis would have done its true numbers if it had launched on console first."

Hermits please do not attempt to spin this into "buh ma fren g0t 360 torrentz lol". Console game piracy is nowhere near as bad as PC game piracy in numbers and impact.

So now two PC gaming stalwarts have released statements like this EPIC and GAS POWERED GAMES.

Is it starting to sink in yet hermits? You can't keep eating free or there won't be any food to go around.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/853/853261p1.html

JiveT

Honestly, it's a pain to pirate newly released games. I just buy them.

And if you think this means the end of PC gaming -- no.

PC sales declined 6% last year. link.

Vylence

Try reading the links before you post them next time. That clearly states RETAIL sales are down 6%. Including DD PC software sales were actually up 12%. Better luck next time.

How many PC developers need to come out and make statements like that before some people stop just blowing them off like it means nothing?

I am a PC gamer first, but you are in denial if you think piracy does not hurt the PC more then any other platform.

Here's what I posted on IGN, I don't want to retype the thing:

[QUOTE="Vylence"]

PC sales declined 6% last year. link.

myke2010

Try reading the links before you post them next time. That clearly states RETAIL sales are down 6%. Including DD PC software sales were actually up 12%. Better luck next time.

Software is what these dev's are worried about.

How many PC developers need to come out and make statements like that before some people stop just blowing them off like it means nothing?

I am a PC gamer first, but you are in denial if you think piracy does not hurt the PC more then any other platform.

Coyo7e

Wow talk about Hermit denial. A huge developer talks about piracy being the problem with PC games and each Hermit comes on to say its not that big of a deal. Really its your attitudes which are forcing games from your platform. If you think piracy is no big deal I'm thinking there will not be another Crysis for you guys. They will just be like Epic and start making the Xbox their lead platform. Why do you think they recently anounced a version of Crysis for each system?

PC sales declined 6% last year. link.

Yes and there was a huge spurt the year before.. PC gaming has had a seesaw int eh past years.. But it is growing none the less.

Crysis which was hyped as much as Halo3 can only sell a million in two months, thats pitiful.

Which clearly shows why your ignorant.. Its odvious why Crysis did not sell as well as say Halo 3.. Its a top hardware req game, only some 20% or alittle more are even capable of running the game.. This is assuming if they are even fans of FPS's.. Computers games don't sell all at once.. They are not like console games where there is a mad rush and then it dies down to the next big game.. Pc games usually sell well for years as time goes on, because most pc gamers don't leap at the hottest thing at the market like console players tend to do it seems.

Yeah PC sales are not dying, they are just in resession.

I don't see how they are in recession either.. 16% drop from last year yet you fail to point ou the years before that has had huge growth.. PC games arn't so much as dieing as consoles are becoming very popular.. Yet also we are still getting the most highest rated exclusives out there.. And there are tons of games on the pipeline.

Vylence

Piracy probably does hurt gaming ALITTLE.. BUT ITS A EMPTY figure there is no telling if the game would have sold that much to begin with.. Proof of this is UT3, its by all standards to most a de-evolution in the series.. Its not popular online what so ever compared to much older games.. Yet we have Ol cliffy trying to use piracy as a scapegoat to mask his own incompetence in creating a game that was not up to par..

[QUOTE="myke2010"][QUOTE="Vylence"]

PC sales declined 6% last year. link.

Coyo7e

Try reading the links before you post them next time. That clearly states RETAIL sales are down 6%. Including DD PC software sales were actually up 12%. Better luck next time.

Software is what these dev's are worried about.

Yes and software sales are up 12%. Retail stores and some devs seem to be slow to grasp the concept that DD is replacing a significant portion of traditional retail sales.

[QUOTE="Vylence"]

PC sales declined 6% last year. link.

myke2010

Try reading the links before you post them next time. That clearly states RETAIL sales are down 6%. Including DD PC software sales were actually up 12%. Better luck next time.

If PC retail sales are down 6% that is still decline isn't it?

[QUOTE="JiveT"]

"Chris Taylor: Well one of the key things that is really affecting the economics and the success of gaming in general is piracy on the PC. So one of the reasons we'll see RTSs on the console is because people can't pirate it. That's why we're going to see a lot more of everything on the console. When you look at the sales of really hardcore games like Crysis and you think, "Wow, those games should have sold a lot more," you realize that's probably due in large part to piracy. And you realize that a game like Crysis would have done its true numbers if it had launched on console first."

Hermits please do not attempt to spin this into "buh ma fren g0t 360 torrentz lol". Console game piracy is nowhere near as bad as PC game piracy in numbers and impact.

So now two PC gaming stalwarts have released statements like this EPIC and GAS POWERED GAMES.

Is it starting to sink in yet hermits? You can't keep eating free or there won't be any food to go around.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/853/853261p1.html

HoldThePhone

Honestly, it's a pain to pirate newly released games. I just buy them.

PC gaming has always had this problem and yet it's still alive and kicking. You do realize that even the pirates need Nvidia, Intel, AMD, and ATI hardware to run their games, right? Devs get a lot of their money from those companies, and pirated games makes zero impact in hardware sales, and that is where the real money is at. PC gaming is dying? Right.... :roll:karasill

It is already obvious the that a lot of games were designed for a console first and ported to the PC.

CoD4 was made with the 360 in mind and ported over to the PC.

I think that sucks.

[QUOTE="myke2010"][QUOTE="Vylence"]

PC sales declined 6% last year. link.

Vylence

Try reading the links before you post them next time. That clearly states RETAIL sales are down 6%. Including DD PC software sales were actually up 12%. Better luck next time.

If PC retail sales are down 6% that is still decline isn't it?

No because digital distriubation is becomign widely popular as an alternative.. I would also like to add that retail stores such as Gamestop have just about dropped nearly their entire library in the past year it seems.

[QUOTE="karasill"]PC gaming has always had this problem and yet it's still alive and kicking. You do realize that even the pirates need Nvidia, Intel, AMD, and ATI hardware to run their games, right? Devs get a lot of their money from those companies, and pirated games makes zero impact in hardware sales, and that is where the real money is at. PC gaming is dying? Right.... :roll:Coyo7e

It is already obvious the that a lot of games were designed for a console first and ported to the PC.

CoD4 was made with the 360 in mind and ported over to the PC.

I think that sucks.

[QUOTE="myke2010"][QUOTE="Vylence"]

PC sales declined 6% last year. link.

Vylence

Try reading the links before you post them next time. That clearly states RETAIL sales are down 6%. Including DD PC software sales were actually up 12%. Better luck next time.

If PC retail sales are down 6% that is still decline isn't it?

No, because the increase DD sales more then makes up for the decrease in retail sales, thus an overall increase in profits for the devs. Do you really think the devs care about retail stores troubles when their own profits are on the rise?

[QUOTE="karasill"]PC gaming has always had this problem and yet Butit's still alive and kicking. You do realize that even the pirates need Nvidia, Intel, AMD, and ATI hardware to run their games, right? Devs get a lot of their money from those companies, and pirated games makes zero impact in hardware sales, and that is where the real money is at. PC gaming is dying? Right.... :roll:Coyo7e

It is already obvious the that a lot of games were designed for a console first and ported to the PC.

CoD4 was made with the 360 in mind and ported over to the PC.

I think that sucks.

But who gets league support?

That's right.

Dying happily since 84 or what was it again? Piracy has been there as long as pc-gaming. Is it dead yet? No its not...

How come its dying if the industry keeps making new records every year? Console gaming will be far gone before pc-gaming.

If pc-gaming dies then would consoles because there would be noone left to provide your consoles with graphic-cards =D

Gas Powered games won't sell well, naturally. They are good but not appealing IMO.

And UT3 was terrible.

The only reason these piracy statistics aren't available for the 360 is because microsoft can't detect who is playing pirated software, and who isn't. On the other hand, you are forced to buy PC games if you want to play online, or don't want to bother waiting for updated cracks. Yah... in fact, I've always found piracy on the console to be leagues easier.

Heck... you know how much it costs to pirate a 360? $0-$20. All you need is a access to a sata port on your PC.

rimnet00

Gas Powered games won't sell well, naturally. They are good but not appealing IMO.

And UT3 was terrible.

HoldThePhone

[QUOTE="Coyo7e"]

[QUOTE="karasill"]PC gaming has always had this problem and yet it's still alive and kicking. You do realize that even the pirates need Nvidia, Intel, AMD, and ATI hardware to run their games, right? Devs get a lot of their money from those companies, and pirated games makes zero impact in hardware sales, and that is where the real money is at. PC gaming is dying? Right.... :roll:karasill

It is already obvious the that a lot of games were designed for a console first and ported to the PC.

CoD4 was made with the 360 in mind and ported over to the PC.

I think that sucks.

It is not going to die but it sucks that a game like CoD4 was made for the consoles and ported to the PC.

If it were made for the PC from the ground up it would be a totally different game.

I for one hate the small maps, and despise its arcade like game-play. The first CoD is one of my favorite games of all time.

We are just going to see more and more games being ported to the PC rather then designed for it. I think that sucks.

Even if its not true, witch no one here can make a great case for, the perception alone that a lot of dev's have is enough to have a major impact. Piracy is hurting PC games, and when a developer says something, everyone acts like it because they are greedy.

A lot of people in this thread of stolen their games I am sure. They are rationalizing their own behavior.

[QUOTE="HoldThePhone"]

Gas Powered games won't sell well, naturally. They are good but not appealing IMO.

And UT3 was terrible.

Vandalvideo

Oh is it?

I bet the piracy numbers for Gas Powered games are very low as well.

Piracy is hurting PC games, and when a developer says something, everyone acts like it because they are greedyCoyo7e

[QUOTE="HoldThePhone"]

Gas Powered games won't sell well, naturally. They are good but not appealing IMO.

And UT3 was terrible.

Vandalvideo

More like a rip-off of DotA than Savage and that's it's appeal. I want to play a more polished DotA. It's a shame that I'm not planning to buy Demigod in light of these comments from Chris. I'll just happily play Sins (Which I just got today) and eagerly await the Second Coming (Also known as Starcraft 2).

I would like to see how much of an increase in PC sales would be if they took out all the money from Wow subs. Piracy does affect specific genres much more than others, though I guess Hermits are okay with RTS, FPSs becoming console leads. No reason to believe that all these developers are thinking DD is an answer to the biggest problem they have with PC development.

If all your greatest developers are saying its a huge problem and the Hermits are saying its not, where is the disconnect?

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="HoldThePhone"]

Gas Powered games won't sell well, naturally. They are good but not appealing IMO.

And UT3 was terrible.

Redmoonxl2

More like a rip-off of DotA than Savage and that's it's appeal. I want to play a more polished DotA. It's a shame that I'm not planning to buy Demigod in light of these comments from Chris. I'll just happily play Sins (Which I just got today) and eagerly await the Second Coming (Also known as Starcraft 2).

I would like to see how much of an increase in PC sales would be if they took out all the money from Wow subs. Piracy does affect specific genres much more than others, though I guess Hermits are okay with RTS, FPSs becoming console leads. No reason to believe that all these developers are thinking DD is an answer to the biggest problem they have with PC development.

If all your greatest developers are saying its a huge problem and the Hermits are saying its not, where is the disconnect?

Vylence

[QUOTE="Coyo7e"] Piracy is hurting PC games, and when a developer says something, everyone acts like it because they are greedyVandalvideo

So because a game is mediocre it gives you the right to steal it?

Sad.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Coyo7e"] Piracy is hurting PC games, and when a developer says something, everyone acts like it because they are greedyCoyo7e

So because a game is mediocre it gives you the right to steal it?

Sad.

[QUOTE="karasill"][QUOTE="Coyo7e"]

[QUOTE="karasill"]PC gaming has always had this problem and yet it's still alive and kicking. You do realize that even the pirates need Nvidia, Intel, AMD, and ATI hardware to run their games, right? Devs get a lot of their money from those companies, and pirated games makes zero impact in hardware sales, and that is where the real money is at. PC gaming is dying? Right.... :roll:Coyo7e

It is already obvious the that a lot of games were designed for a console first and ported to the PC.

CoD4 was made with the 360 in mind and ported over to the PC.

I think that sucks.

It is not going to die but it sucks that a game like CoD4 was made for the consoles and ported to the PC.

If it were made for the PC from the ground up it would be a totally different game.

I for one hate the small maps, and despise its arcade like game-play. The first CoD is one of my favorite games of all time.

We are just going to see more and more games being ported to the PC rather then designed for it. I think that sucks.

Even if its not true, witch no one here can make a great case for, the perception alone that a lot of dev's have is enough to have a major impact. Piracy is hurting PC games, and when a developer says something, everyone acts like it because they are greedy.

A lot of people in this thread of stolen their games I am sure. They are rationalizing their own behavior.

But the fact that alot of other PC games sell fantastically completely shoots the excuse of, "oh we didn't sell well because everyone wanted to steal our game," out of the water.

Yes, you lose some sales because of pirates. Clothing outlets lose lots of sales because of shoplifters (which is practically just as easy as pirating a game off the internet if you've tried it).

The games that get the pirated the most, are the games that sell the best.

In Gas Powered and Epic's cases, no one wantd there games either way -- even if they were free.

I would like to see how much of an increase in PC sales would be if they took out all the money from Wow subs. Piracy does affect specific genres much more than others, though I guess Hermits are okay with RTS, FPSs becoming console leads. No reason to believe that all these developers are thinking DD is an answer to the biggest problem they have with PC development.

If all your greatest developers are saying its a huge problem and the Hermits are saying its not, where is the disconnect?

Vylence

[QUOTE="Vylence"]

I would like to see how much of an increase in PC sales would be if they took out all the money from Wow subs. Piracy does affect specific genres much more than others, though I guess Hermits are okay with RTS, FPSs becoming console leads. No reason to believe that all these developers are thinking DD is an answer to the biggest problem they have with PC development.

If all your greatest developers are saying its a huge problem and the Hermits are saying its not, where is the disconnect?

karasill

Do you know how easy it is to Mod a X360 or Wii?

Or Maybe you suddenly forgot about the Nintendo losing a billion dollars due to piracy?

Fast fact, do some googling before you pin point PC gaming as the only guilty culprit of piracy.

I've lost all respect for CliffyB, he might as well go sell himself to Microsoft before PC gamer start saying "Who's that guy? Someone else Microsoft paid off to promote their system?". Besides Crysis selling a million copies in three months, isn't too shabby if you ask me. :|

elbow2k

that was from ppl downloading the games from the pc to the ds..

[QUOTE="Coyo7e"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Coyo7e"] Piracy is hurting PC games, and when a developer says something, everyone acts like it because they are greedyVandalvideo

So because a game is mediocre it gives you the right to steal it?

Sad.

Actually to many people that statement does condone piracy. And its that attitude that you deserve anything which others use to justify piracy. And name all these indie developers who are selling millions. And name how much they would have made without piracy. And then tell me how many Indy developers there would be without piracy?

[QUOTE="Coyo7e"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Coyo7e"] Piracy is hurting PC games, and when a developer says something, everyone acts like it because they are greedyVandalvideo

So because a game is mediocre it gives you the right to steal it?

Sad.

You are talking about yourself. And theft is theft.

They say piracy you say they are crying. Someone working in the industry and currently making games says that (and he is not alone) and you blow it off.

If you dont like the game dont buy it. That does not mean you can steal it.

But PC gamers should be worried about the perception alone, and we can already see the impact its had.

[QUOTE="karasill"][QUOTE="Vylence"]

I would like to see how much of an increase in PC sales would be if they took out all the money from Wow subs. Piracy does affect specific genres much more than others, though I guess Hermits are okay with RTS, FPSs becoming console leads. No reason to believe that all these developers are thinking DD is an answer to the biggest problem they have with PC development.

If all your greatest developers are saying its a huge problem and the Hermits are saying its not, where is the disconnect?

Vandalvideo

[QUOTE="Redmoonxl2"][QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="HoldThePhone"]

Gas Powered games won't sell well, naturally. They are good but not appealing IMO.

And UT3 was terrible.

Vandalvideo

More like a rip-off of DotA than Savage and that's it's appeal. I want to play a more polished DotA. It's a shame that I'm not planning to buy Demigod in light of these comments from Chris. I'll just happily play Sins (Which I just got today) and eagerly await the Second Coming (Also known as Starcraft 2).

Alrighty. My Xfire barely sees use since I use Steam for everything. I guess this will work out since launching Sins through Steam gives it a text error.

Makkiworth

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Coyo7e"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Coyo7e"] Piracy is hurting PC games, and when a developer says something, everyone acts like it because they are greedyVylence

So because a game is mediocre it gives you the right to steal it?

Sad.

Actually to many people that statement does condone piracy. And its that attitude that you deserve anything which others use to justify piracy. And name all these indie developers who are selling millions. And name how much they would have made without piracy. And then tell me how many Indy developers there would be without piracy?

Here's how my mind works:

If you release a crappy game, I have the right to pirate it.

But I don't even want your game anyways.

People don't pirate crappy games -- like I said, the games that get the most hits from pirates, are also the best selling PC games.

The Witcher came out of nowhere and has sold over a million copies. Gas Powered just makes junk, and Epic is a 360 whore now.

Actually to many people that statement does condone piracy. And its that attitude that you deserve anything which others use to justify piracy. And name all these indie developers who are selling millions. And name how much they would have made without piracy. And then tell me how many Indy developers there would be without piracy? Vylence

[QUOTE="Vylence"]

I would like to see how much of an increase in PC sales would be if they took out all the money from Wow subs. Piracy does affect specific genres much more than others, though I guess Hermits are okay with RTS, FPSs becoming console leads. No reason to believe that all these developers are thinking DD is an answer to the biggest problem they have with PC development.

If all your greatest developers are saying its a huge problem and the Hermits are saying its not, where is the disconnect?

karasill

No Gas Powered complained, Blizzard has complained if you think they haven't you do not know your history. Starcraft was pirated MAJORLY. Crytek is now developing a version of Crysis for each of the platforms, I wonder why? Lionhead has complained, Epic complained.

And if I looked through antiquity I'm sure others would have as well.

[QUOTE="Coyo7e"][QUOTE="karasill"][QUOTE="Coyo7e"]

[QUOTE="karasill"]PC gaming has always had this problem and yet it's still alive and kicking. You do realize that even the pirates need Nvidia, Intel, AMD, and ATI hardware to run their games, right? Devs get a lot of their money from those companies, and pirated games makes zero impact in hardware sales, and that is where the real money is at. PC gaming is dying? Right.... :roll:HoldThePhone

It is already obvious the that a lot of games were designed for a console first and ported to the PC.

CoD4 was made with the 360 in mind and ported over to the PC.

I think that sucks.

It is not going to die but it sucks that a game like CoD4 was made for the consoles and ported to the PC.

If it were made for the PC from the ground up it would be a totally different game.

I for one hate the small maps, and despise its arcade like game-play. The first CoD is one of my favorite games of all time.

We are just going to see more and more games being ported to the PC rather then designed for it. I think that sucks.

Even if its not true, witch no one here can make a great case for, the perception alone that a lot of dev's have is enough to have a major impact. Piracy is hurting PC games, and when a developer says something, everyone acts like it because they are greedy.

A lot of people in this thread of stolen their games I am sure. They are rationalizing their own behavior.

But the fact that alot of other PC games sell fantastically completely shoots the excuse of, "oh we didn't sell well because everyone wanted to steal our game," out of the water.

Yes, you lose some sales because of pirates. Clothing outlets lose lots of sales because of shoplifters (which is practically just as easy as pirating a game off the internet if you've tried it).

The games that get the pirated the most, are the games that sell the best.

In Gas Powered and Epic's cases, no one wantd there games either way -- even if they were free.

It does not matter how many they sold if the % of pirated games is high.

Sure PC will still get games, they will just be ports.

Make them forth console first because that is their primary market and release them on the PC as well.

But don't waste money making a PC game, even if it sells well, fighting piracy sucks. Put it on the xbox and let MS fight piracy for you.

[QUOTE="karasill"][QUOTE="Vylence"]

I would like to see how much of an increase in PC sales would be if they took out all the money from Wow subs. Piracy does affect specific genres much more than others, though I guess Hermits are okay with RTS, FPSs becoming console leads. No reason to believe that all these developers are thinking DD is an answer to the biggest problem they have with PC development.

If all your greatest developers are saying its a huge problem and the Hermits are saying its not, where is the disconnect?

Vylence

No Gas Powered complained, Blizzard has complained if you think they haven't you do not know your history. Starcraft was pirated MAJORLY. Crytek is now developing a version of Crysis for each of the platforms, I wonder why? Lionhead has complained, Epic complained.

And if I looked through antiquity I'm sure others would have as well.

Starcraft was pirated majorly, yes. It also sold a clean 10,000,000 + copies.

And I bet you half of those pirates will purchase Starcraft 2 on the day of its release.

It's actually a good thing.

You are talking about yourself. And theft is theft. They say piracy you say they are crying. Someone working in the industry and currently making games says that (and he is not alone) and you blow it off. f you dont like the game dont buy it. That does not mean you can steal it. But PC gamers should be worried about the perception alone, and we can already see the impact its had.Coyo7e

Blizzard has complained if you think they haven't you do not know your history. Vylence

Blizzard has complained if you think they haven't you do not know your history. Starcraft was pirated MAJORLY.

Vylence

though not recently, as I see. hell, Warcraft III doesn't even require the CD to play anymore.

Coyo7e

It does not matter how many they sold if the % of pirated games is high.

Sure PC will still get games, they will just be ports.

Make them forth console first because that is their primary market and release them on the PC as well.

But don't waste money making a PC game, even if it sells well, fighting piracy sucks. Put it on the xbox and let MS fight piracy for you.

My point went right over your head.

Watch Starcraft 2 crack 15 million sold then talk to me about how pirates are dooming PC gaming.