MLB Offseason: Justin Upton traded to Braves for Prado, Delgado and prospects.

typical sourh sider, struggles with reading comprehension.

The Tigers made the playoffs because of their strong pitching. Cabrera did not carry them to the playoffs. He was consistent throughout the year, it was their pitching that allowed them to pass the White Sox.

Every game is worth the same in the standings. Trout fading does not offset the huge defensive gap that exists between him and Cabrera. Trout does more to help his team win and put his team in a better position to win.

Cabrera voters argument involves the triple crown and making the postseason. Neither of those things should factor into the MVP vote. Dawson correctly won an MVP awawrd on a last place team. He was the best player that year and deserves that recognition.

Cloud_Insurance

I don't think I am struggling with understanding anything. You are suggesting that the reason the Tigers made the playoffs was because of their pitching rotation. I am not arguing that those 5 people were more important than Cabrera. It is ridiculous to compare the value of the whole pitching rotation to one player. Cabrera did carry his team. In the final 2 months (and the three games in October), he reached base every single game except for 7. He drove in an RBI in over half of those games. He was the offense all year long and got better as the season went on. To say he didn't help them win their division (last post) is laughable and adds up to about zero credibility.

When players put up the numbers is important. Every game may count the same, but playing 2/3 as good as he did during the month of June and July directly resulted in the Angels inability to make the playoffs.

Can you prove the voters chose Cabrera simply because he won the Triple Crown? Making the postseason and playing your best ball down the stretch is important and should factor in. Voters shouldn't open ESPN and scroll through a player's WAR and hand them the trophy based on that. I'm glad 22 of the 28 writers didn't do that.

Defense will never equate to the same as offense in any position on baseball. That is why a defensive specialist at SS makes about $3M while a good DH can can get $15M. The Tigers were one of the worst defensive teams in baseball this year...they made it to the WS. The Seattle Mariners? One of the best.

I'm late, but I like the Cabrera signing. Surprised he didn't sign a 1 year deal and try and prove himself. Fill our LF hole instantly.

And the Jays-Marlins trade is offically approved: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/blue-jays-marlins-complete-blockbuster-trade.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

I'm late, but I like the Cabrera signing. Surprised he didn't sign a 1 year deal and try and prove himself. Fill our LF hole instantly.

And the Jays-Marlins trade is offically approved: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/blue-jays-marlins-complete-blockbuster-trade.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

JohnBean42

I think he jumped at the deal. Especially after his PED suspension. How many teams were going to offer him a multi year deal? If he can best his career average, .284*, and play solid defense, it's a steal of a deal.

The Jays line up looks good on paper,

SS Jose Reyes
3B Brett Lawrie
LF Melky Cabrera
RF Jose Bautista
DH Edwin Encarnacion
1B Adam Lind
CF Colby Rasmus
C J.P. Arencibia
2B Maicer Izturis

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1-5 is solid, after that, it's average. They should do well if, and it's a big if, they can keep their staff healthy. Their arms have been falling off lately. Any answers to why that is? AL East is going to be a pretty good division this season.

The Marlins Front Office is delusional. They really believe the players they got back from Toronto are championship caliber and really believe the team is better now. I realize they can't say they suck, but to flat out lie? Ridiculous. Although I shouldn't be surprised.

The Marlins Front Office is delusional. They really believe the players they got back from Toronto are championship caliber and really believe the team is better now. I realize they can't say they suck, but to flat out lie? Ridiculous. Although I shouldn't be surprised.

yokofox33

[QUOTE="JohnBean42"]

I'm late, but I like the Cabrera signing. Surprised he didn't sign a 1 year deal and try and prove himself. Fill our LF hole instantly.

And the Jays-Marlins trade is offically approved: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/blue-jays-marlins-complete-blockbuster-trade.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Namgis

I think he jumped at the deal. Especially after his PED suspension. How many teams were going to offer him a multi year deal? If he can best his career average, .284*, and play solid defense, it's a steal of a deal.

The Jays line up looks good on paper,

SS Jose Reyes
3B Brett Lawrie
LF Melky Cabrera
RF Jose Bautista
DH Edwin Encarnacion
1B Adam Lind
CF Colby Rasmus
C J.P. Arencibia
2B Maicer Izturis

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1-5 is solid, after that, it's average. They should do well if, and it's a big if, they can keep their staff healthy. Their arms have been falling off lately. Any answers to why that is? AL East is going to be a pretty good division this season.

I don't think that'll be our opening day lineup, even if the players are the same. Bautista still 3, EE still 4..Melky either 2 or 5, and if he's 5, Bonifacio/Izturis will be 2nd.

But I don't think JPA will be here. He'll be moved for either another, better 2B or 1B/DH, or a starter. I know Texas is interested, and Andus/Kinsler have been mentioned. Also, if they get a 1B/DH, Lind might be DFA'd.

I agree the bottom 4 is average as you have it. Not a lot of them get on base a lot, but have power. But if the guys infront of them are racking up the home runs, they aren't as...useful. Which is why a guy like Lawrie could hit 6th, and get on base for Rasmus and JPA. Lawrie and Rasmus hit well together when they were 1-2, may it'll carry over.

I don't think that'll be our opening day lineup, even if the players are the same. Bautista still 3, EE still 4..Melky either 2 or 5, and if he's 5, Bonifacio/Izturis will be 2nd.

But I don't think JPA will be here. He'll be moved for either another, better 2B or 1B/DH, or a starter. I know Texas is interested, and Andus/Kinsler have been mentioned. Also, if they get a 1B/DH, Lind might be DFA'd.

I agree the bottom 4 is average as you have it. Not a lot of them get on base a lot, but have power. But if the guys infront of them are racking up the home runs, they aren't as...useful. Which is why a guy like Lawrie could hit 6th, and get on base for Rasmus and JPA. Lawrie and Rasmus hit well together when they were 1-2, may it'll carry over.

JohnBean42

That was just the projected lineup on ESPN I copy and pasted. I agree that JPA is most likely going to be moved. But who do they have that's ready for the Show? I also believe that they should try and move Rasmus. He is good defensively, but at the plate, like you said, doesn't get on base as much as he should. He's got great speed but is trying to be a power guy. Too much talk coming from his pop, just like in STL. If they could deal JPA straight up for Kinsler, or another multi player swap(Rasmus) and get both him and Andrus, look out MLB.

[QUOTE="JohnBean42"]

I don't think that'll be our opening day lineup, even if the players are the same. Bautista still 3, EE still 4..Melky either 2 or 5, and if he's 5, Bonifacio/Izturis will be 2nd.

But I don't think JPA will be here. He'll be moved for either another, better 2B or 1B/DH, or a starter. I know Texas is interested, and Andus/Kinsler have been mentioned. Also, if they get a 1B/DH, Lind might be DFA'd.

I agree the bottom 4 is average as you have it. Not a lot of them get on base a lot, but have power. But if the guys infront of them are racking up the home runs, they aren't as...useful. Which is why a guy like Lawrie could hit 6th, and get on base for Rasmus and JPA. Lawrie and Rasmus hit well together when they were 1-2, may it'll carry over.

Namgis

That was just the projected lineup on ESPN I copy and pasted. I agree that JPA is most likely going to be moved. But who do they have that's ready for the Show? I also believe that they should try and move Rasmus. He is good defensively, but at the plate, like you said, doesn't get on base as much as he should. He's got great speed but is trying to be a power guy. Too much talk coming from his pop, just like in STL. If they could deal JPA straight up for Kinsler, or another multi player swap(Rasmus) and get both him and Andrus, look out MLB.

I don't know, regardless of how highly touted he is, d'Arnaud is he's still unproven when it comes to the bigs, and we've seen what JPA can do, which is not getting on base a lot, but 20+ HR and 80+ RBI. But everything about d'Arneud to this point in AAA and AA is better than what JPA did.

And Gose...he's fast and plays good D most of the time, but I'd much prefer Rasmus. Hopefully the one from April-June, not the last half.

It's still November, and we've done all this without a manager. Once we have him, and after these big moves AA will focus even more on trades and maybe a FA or 2...maybe another pitcher like Sanchez or Jackson is the payroll is even higher. I still want another one.

Travis d'Arneud is the highest ranked catcher in baseball and was ranked 11 on MLB.com. He missed the last half of the year with a torn PCL, so I expect he wouldn't be up for at least a month or two, but he's ready. My concern with trading him and/or Rasmus is that if this is the year we're "going for it", can we really go into it with an unproven rookie behind the plate with a mediocre backup, and a CF with almost no experience in Gose? Unless we sign someone that is.

I don't know, regardless of how highly touted he is, d'Arnaud is he's still unproven when it comes to the bigs, and we've seen what JPA can do, which is not getting on base a lot, but 20+ HR and 80+ RBI. But everything about d'Arneud to this point in AAA and AA is better than what JPA did.

And Gose...he's fast and plays good D most of the time, but I'd much prefer Rasmus. Hopefully the one from April-June, not the last half.

It's still November, and we've done all this without a manager. Once we have him, and after these big moves AA will focus even more on trades and maybe a FA or 2...maybe another pitcher like Sanchez or Jackson is the payroll is even higher. I still want another one.

JohnBean42

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If we're deciding on Gose and Rasmus, it's kind of a toss up. Rasmus has more power, buts that about it. They both have speed and play well defensively, the only difference is, Rasmus has had more opportunity. I would give Gose a good long look. I think I just don't like Colby due to his hair, cut that sh!t already. [spoiler] , [/spoiler]

[QUOTE="JohnBean42"]

Travis d'Arneud is the highest ranked catcher in baseball and was ranked 11 on MLB.com. He missed the last half of the year with a torn PCL, so I expect he wouldn't be up for at least a month or two, but he's ready. My concern with trading him and/or Rasmus is that if this is the year we're "going for it", can we really go into it with an unproven rookie behind the plate with a mediocre backup, and a CF with almost no experience in Gose? Unless we sign someone that is.

I don't know, regardless of how highly touted he is, d'Arnaud is he's still unproven when it comes to the bigs, and we've seen what JPA can do, which is not getting on base a lot, but 20+ HR and 80+ RBI. But everything about d'Arneud to this point in AAA and AA is better than what JPA did.

And Gose...he's fast and plays good D most of the time, but I'd much prefer Rasmus. Hopefully the one from April-June, not the last half.

It's still November, and we've done all this without a manager. Once we have him, and after these big moves AA will focus even more on trades and maybe a FA or 2...maybe another pitcher like Sanchez or Jackson is the payroll is even higher. I still want another one.

Namgis

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If we're deciding on Gose and Rasmus, it's kind of a toss up. Rasmus has more power, buts that about it. They both have speed and play well defensively, the only difference is, Rasmus has had more opportunity. I would give Gose a good long look. I think I just don't like Colby due to his hair, cut that sh!t already. [spoiler] , [/spoiler]

I don't think they want TDA to be a backup. They want him to play after missing half of last season. If he's up, he's playing. It's why we let Buck go before, so JPA could start. The ideal situation according to them is he starts in AAA, like Gose, ready when needed. They could have him on the 25 man roster to start the year if JPA is moved, but Buck/Wilson would back HIM up I think. I just don't see them bring in another catcher though.

Very excited to be a Blue Jay fan that's for sure.

Very excited to be a Blue Jay fan that's for sure.

muller39

Yanks resign Kuroda, for 1 year/15 mill Wuuuuuush, :D had me worried for a moment.

Latest odds to win the WS.

• Reds 7.5-1
• Nats 7.5-1
• Blue Jays 8.5-1
• Tex 8.5-1
• LAD 10-1
• NYY 11-1
• SF 12-1.

Longoria extended

Gotta tell you, I admire the Rays organization greatly, IMO the best front office in MLB and maybe in all of sports, but I don't know about this move. They had him signed through 2016, age 30, why extend him? Yeah, maybe he has 2 or 3 more great seasons after but is that worth tying yourself to him until he is 38? Longoria is injury prone, hasn't played more than 133 games the last two seasons.

For sure this brings cost certainty. Maybe they sell high at 30/31/32 with an affordable contract. Maybe ownership will simply start to spend more on payroll or maybe this is a move for taxpayers to approve that new stadium.

BJ Upton to the Braves, 5 years $75 million. Meh.GamerForca

Just heard this. Was good with Bourn but if Upton can play to his potential, will be worth it.

[QUOTE="GamerForca"]BJ Upton to the Braves, 5 years $75 million. Meh.36Ounces

Just heard this. Was good with Bourn but if Upton can play to his potential, will be worth it.

In other news:

Carlos Ruiz banned 25 games.

Upton's a nice player and all, but the price seems a little steep for a guy who ouside of one outlaying season has a career best OPS doesnt even break .800.

Upton's a nice player and all, but the price seems a little steep for a guy who ouside of one outlaying season has a career best OPS doesnt even break .800.

Boston_Boyy

Upton's a nice player and all, but the price seems a little steep for a guy who ouside of one outlaying season has a career best OPS doesnt even break .800.

Boston_Boyy

You right, it is a gamble payin dude so much money. Just hope he play to his potential and it pays off.

Bucks ink Russell Martin, 2yr/17mil. AJ should be happy.

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Mo back for one more year. 10mil + incentives.

Napoli and Pierzynski are on the market, I'd take either.

Gibbons hire comes with red flags

Indeed, the Jays were renowned for their slew of pitcher injuries during the Gibbons era, among both starters and relievers. Burnett, who already had a history of arm troubles, spent 135 days on the disabled list with elbow and shoulder injuries in 2006-2007. McGowan wound up needing the first of several shoulder surgeries in mid-2008, and has just 21 big league innings since. Gustavo Chacin spent over 300 days on the DL from 2006-2008 with elbow and shoulder woes and was never the same, though his 203-inning 2005 rookie season took place on Toscas watch. Closer B.J Ryan missed most of 2007 after undergoing Tommy John surgery. Reliever Casey Janssen missed all of 2008 after labrum surgery. Reliever Jeremy Accardo missed most of 2008 with a forearm strain. Starters Shaun Marcum and Jesse Litsch underwent Tommy John surgery after Gibbons departure, in late 2008 and early 2009, respectively.

Its certainly not clear that Gibbons handling caused any or all of those problems, and even if it did, pitching coaches, medical staff and the since-departed Ricciardi share in the blame as well. But on the heels of a season where starters Kyle Drabek, Drew Hutchinson and McGowan, and relievers Litsch, Luis Perez and Sergio Santos all underwent season-ending shoulder or elbow surgeries and Ricky Romero added a postseason elbow cleanup the return of Gibbons raises an eyebrow if not a red flag. Particularly so, in light of the acquisition of the injury-prone Josh Johnson, a Tommy John surgery survivor who spent most of 2011 on the DL with shoulder inflammation. Torontos training staff will have to stay on its toes.

Gibbons hire comes with red flags

*snip*

Master_Live

Which begs the question: does that mean we can pin all of last season's pitching injuries on Farrell despite his reputation as a top-tier pitching coach?

I'm not thrilled with the Gibbons hiring, but it's not like the Jays turned down some standout manager, either. The fact Anthopoulos went out on such a limb to bring him in makes me cautiously optimistic, though.

None of the owners like or respect Loria and Samson. I don't blame them.

None of the owners like or respect Loria and Samson. I don't blame them.

yokofox33

Mike Napoli signs with Boston Red Sox for 3 years, 39 mill

Loney signs with Tampa Bay Rays

Jason Marquis to San Diego

Closer Brad Lidge to retire

Geovany Soto signs with Texas Rangers.

I guess the Napoli move is okay, but having him to first base would diminish his positional value as a hitter somewhat.

[QUOTE="yokofox33"]

None of the owners like or respect Loria and Samson. I don't blame them.

Boston_Boyy

Oh I know it was a joke, but I bet it's not far from the truth at all. A lot of the owners were pissed at Loria during the meetings.

Marlins are shopping Yunel Escobar, with 2 teams interested.

Ricky Nolasco has asked for a trade from the Marlins. Samson replied with a "no comment" if Stanton asked for a trade, which means he wants out. I really hope Loria and Samson come about a great misfortune that totally ruins their lives.

Shane Victorino to Boston for 3 years, 39 mill.

Marlins on the verge of sending Yunel Escobar to the Rays for minor leaguer IF, Derick Dietrich.

Edit: Done deal. Marlins now have 21 million dollars committed to 7 players. 11.5M is dedicated to one player...

Marlins on the verge of sending Yunel Escobar to the Rays for minor leaguer IF, Derick Dietrich.

Edit: Done deal. Marlins now have 21 million dollars committed to 7 players. 11.5M is dedicated to one player...

yokofox33

^ What can you tell me on Alfredo Silverio? Marlins picked him up on the Rule V draft. I know he was one of the Dodgers' top prospects last year before getting into a bad car accident.

Chavez signs for 3 mill, couldn't the Yank offer 6? 9? If this team crumbles because of Hal Steinbrenner and the tax issue you will see a wrath like none seen before. As for all the CF frenzy, I shall measure all deals by the deft Denard Span acquisition by the Nats. By that standard that Pagan, Victorino and Upton deal look not that smart.

Jayson Stark is reporting the Dodgers will sign Zach Grienke. If those reports are true, that's going to be one helluva one-two punch at the top of the rotation.