The TRUTH about PS3's "PS2 Collections"...

You're probably right, but you'd be mad to buy any of the remakes except major ones like the Ico/SOC collection, stuff like Prince of persia 1-3 is worthless now.

That's good for me because buying all those games individually on the PS2 would cost me a lot more than getting them in HD collections on the PS3, so I don't mind.

I suspected something like this... Mmm... I will have to look for the patent description. I remember that we discuss them here in the formus and I saw them on another game site. I dont really know what to think about the reasons Sony have to retain all this code and not giving their users someting they all want if they have it already. It's just not fair. Maybe there is a little more to this story.

Wha.. what!

That's good for me because buying all those games individually on the PS2 would cost me a lot more than getting them in HD collections on the PS3, so I don't mind.

LovePotionNo9

Good read. It makes you think.

Maybe Sony thinks that people will like more to buy the new HD collections than the same PS2 games on the Store. The PS1 Originals cost from $3.50 to $9.00 so the PS2 games on the PlayStation Store will cost between 10.00 to 20.00? Imagine we want to buy God of War I and God of War II on the Store and they cost $12.00 each one? It make more sense to buy the HD collection for 5 more bucks...

This could be the cause they are doing this, because (I dont know) the PS2 games will not be as popular to sell like the PS1 originals? I know I would buy LOTS of PS2 games from the store but... It just me...

I think if all of this is real the "bridge software" is on the disc with the games so nobody can find this on the firmware... My brain is running fast here!

F.

Wouldn't surprise me, but that won't stop me from buying HD titles.

I'm only buying the games I never played when the PS2 was out, so its not like I'm paying twice over for the same games.

Thats not the point, PS2 on HD tv's looks terrible, PS3's that can play PS2 games allow AA,AF and upscaling.

Thats not the point, PS2 on HD tv's looks terrible, PS3's that can play PS2 games allow AA,AF and upscaling.

dazzzilla

Thats not the point, PS2 on HD tv's looks terrible, PS3's that can play PS2 games allow AA,AF and upscaling.

dazzzilla

I have PS2s, and standard def TVs for those games... I couldn't care less.

wow. great post, and a thought provoking read. kudos mystery man!

from a financial standpoint, it makes sense for sony to do this. everybody that still has their ps2 copies would just dust em off and play them, instead of goin out and buyin new ones. Also only the games that were developed towards the end of the ps2's glory had hd capabilities (like gow and soc) the older titles looked like straight doo doo on my b/c 80 gig. yes there was upscaling, but it didnt help bad jagged textures or the frame rate. this "bridge" software is probably on these collection discs. i dunno, if it upsets me though. i think id rather have the old game on a blu ray disc with trophie support and maybe some extras too. its really food for thought, once again thanks for this post.

I'm not surprised...

...however, I still have my PS2 and the originals of Ico and SotC and I'm still going to get the Team Ico collection.

Good post.

It comes down to Sony knowing damn well that they will make good money with their 're'masters. Its easy money for Sony...I think that if Sony had this idea in Nov. 2006, B/C would never been heard of on the PS3. They most likely would have nixed it from the PS2 just so people did not expect it on the PS3.

BTW i support HD collections.

If this is true, I'm very upset.

But then again I can buy these collections with games that I've never played before with HD resolution and trophy support. This does sound like a gutless money grabbing scheme, but if this the only way to play PS2 games, so be it.

I don't buy that, cause if the PS2 collections still have the codes from PS2, the trophies just wouldn't be possible without the PS3 codes. I'm not a developer by any means and I could probably be way off here, but that's my 2 cents.

Sounds reasonable.

At the end of the day, buying HD collection games is completely up to the consumer still.

So far I don't own any of the games they're releasing so it's all good. Played GOW and GOW2 on PS2 before but they were from friends.

That's good for me because buying all those games individually on the PS2 would cost me a lot more than getting them in HD collections on the PS3, so I don't mind.

LovePotionNo9

I don't buy that, cause if the PS2 collections still have the codes from PS2, the trophies just wouldn't be possible without the PS3 codes. I'm not a developer by any means and I could probably be way off here, but that's my 2 cents.

jocaju

Yes it would be possible. Remember that the PS2, at its last days, started having some internet connected games so the libraries for developing internet based games ARE in every PS2 SDK.

We can assume the devs NEED NEW developer kits because the original ones doesn't have the "extended resolution" libraries. We dont know but it doesn't take too much to imagine this new dev kit has this extended graphics libraries and some PSN libraries to give this "conversions" that capability. Remember that it only takes one "IF condition x = that THEN..." to raise a flag or call a function in a library to let the PSN know that you have a new Trophy. Is not magic, just an IF THEN ELSE clause calling some library.

The PS2 code doesn't need to be changed but modified with some "Trophy Support" via conditions and library calls. If they extended the resolution on the SDK (THATS REAL HARD) why cant they add some NEW libraries so the old code can communicate with PSN servers?

I dont think this is difficult at all.

F.

I wish more people knew this. I mean why wouldn't "the most powerful console" can't even handle PS2 BC.

Why are people still complaining about this. It's almost 2011 and people would still rather play PS2 rather than PS3, that is sad. There is plenty on PS3 games but people want to play PS2 games instead. I don't understand people's psychology. I get that people have favorite games from the past but seriously, why own a PS3 to play PS2 games on it? The new console is supposed to be used to play its own games. Are people going play 20 or more PS2 games on their ps3? If people are into PS2 games more than PS3 games, why buy the system in the first place? It is nice to have a console that has full BC but people make it out like it's a requirement. Will people complain that PS7 doesn't go all the back to PS1.

Why are people still complaining about this. It's almost 2011 and people would still rather play PS2 rather than PS3, that is sad. There is plenty on PS3 games but people want to play PS2 games instead. I don't understand people's psychology. I get that people have favorite games from the past but seriously, why own a PS3 to play PS2 games on it? The new console is supposed to be used to play its own games. Are people going play 20 or more PS2 games on their ps3? If people are into PS2 games more than PS3 games, why buy the system in the first place? It is nice to have a console that has full BC but people make it out like it's a requirement. Will people complain that PS7 doesn't go all the back to PS1.

gamenerd15

Great Games are Great Games. No matter when they're made. I still play the original "DOOM" on my PC. The resolution and graphic "limitations" mean nothing to me or anyone else who really cares about a good game. If lack of trophies and HD graphics are a dividing line for you, I'm sorry to hear it because you'll miss out on some tremendous bursts of creativity over the (truly) short history of electronic gaming.

To each their own, I guess.

:)

Peace.

I have a working PS2 and some games, but that is an interesting thought nonetheless. I have semi-faith in Sony for releasing more HD remakes. Hopefully the demand and popularity will grow higher for them, to the point where we'll see Xenosaga collections and a Devil May Cry collection or something.

Why are people still complaining about this. It's almost 2011 and people would still rather play PS2 rather than PS3, that is sad. There is plenty on PS3 games but people want to play PS2 games instead. I don't understand people's psychology. I get that people have favorite games from the past but seriously, why own a PS3 to play PS2 games on it? The new console is supposed to be used to play its own games. Are people going play 20 or more PS2 games on their ps3? If people are into PS2 games more than PS3 games, why buy the system in the first place? It is nice to have a console that has full BC but people make it out like it's a requirement. Will people complain that PS7 doesn't go all the back to PS1.

gamenerd15

[QUOTE="jocaju"]

I don't buy that, cause if the PS2 collections still have the codes from PS2, the trophies just wouldn't be possible without the PS3 codes. I'm not a developer by any means and I could probably be way off here, but that's my 2 cents.

f0361c

Yes it would be possible. Remember that PS2, at its last days, started having some internet connected games so the libraries for developing internet based games EXISITS in every PS2 developers kit.

We can assume the devs NEED NEW developer kits because the original ones dont have the "extended resolution" libraries. We dont know but it doesnt take too mucho to imagine this new dev kit has this extended graphics resolution and some PSN libraries to give this "conversions" that capability. Remember that it only takes one "IF condition x = that THEN..." to raise a flag or call a function in a library to let the PSN know that you have a new Trophy. Is not magic, just a IF THEN ELSE clause calling some library.

The PS2 code doen't have to be changed but only add some "Trophy Support" via conditions and library calls. If they extended the resolution (THATS REAL HARD) why cant they add some NEW libraries so the old code can communicate with PSN servers?

I dont think this is difficult at all.

F.

i see someone took a logic and designcourse i recognize the if then else, thats the baisics of programing

[QUOTE="gamenerd15"]

Why are people still complaining about this. It's almost 2011 and people would still rather play PS2 rather than PS3, that is sad. There is plenty on PS3 games but people want to play PS2 games instead. I don't understand people's psychology. I get that people have favorite games from the past but seriously, why own a PS3 to play PS2 games on it? The new console is supposed to be used to play its own games. Are people going play 20 or more PS2 games on their ps3? If people are into PS2 games more than PS3 games, why buy the system in the first place? It is nice to have a console that has full BC but people make it out like it's a requirement. Will people complain that PS7 doesn't go all the back to PS1.

MonkeySpot

Great Games are Great Games. No matter when they're made. I still play the original "DOOM" on my PC. The resolution and graphic "limitations" mean nothing to me or anyone else who really cares about a good game. If lack of trophies and HD graphics are a dividing line for you, I'm sorry to hear it because you'll miss out on some tremendous bursts of creativity over the (truly) short history of electronic gaming.

To each their own, I guess.

:)

Peace.

I still play NES stuff, all I am saying is that people make the BC issue as if it is mandatory. You are right newer is not always better. I am not making the claim that people should forget about the old but if people want to play old games, in this case being PS2, why spend money on PS3? Every system before PS2 did not have BC and it was fine. Is this BC argument going to carry every generation from now on. Are people going to expect PS4 to go all the back to to PS1? What about future systems in the distant future? Are we really going to expect PS11 or the Wii 6 to have go all the back to every system to PS1 and NES? All I am saying if people are going to lay down cash for the newest technology wouldn't they do so because they want to play the newer games more so than the older? Why by the new system, if you just want to play with games from the past? I could see the point if people wanted to play games that were 2 or three generations ago, but the PS2 was just last generation. I don't see how people are natstalgic for something that we just came from and is still on store shelves.

[QUOTE="gamenerd15"]

Why are people still complaining about this. It's almost 2011 and people would still rather play PS2 rather than PS3, that is sad. There is plenty on PS3 games but people want to play PS2 games instead. I don't understand people's psychology. I get that people have favorite games from the past but seriously, why own a PS3 to play PS2 games on it? The new console is supposed to be used to play its own games. Are people going play 20 or more PS2 games on their ps3? If people are into PS2 games more than PS3 games, why buy the system in the first place? It is nice to have a console that has full BC but people make it out like it's a requirement. Will people complain that PS7 doesn't go all the back to PS1.

Dahaka-UK

You have to give up in order to get. If they put BC back in. then the price then rises another $100 and then we here complaints about price again. The only reason why Nintendo has BC is because the Wii is a GC for the most part with some extra memory and power. I am not saying this to put it down, but I hear alll the time how "the wii has BC why can't the PS3?" Last generation no one cared what the GC had and now all the sudden the Wii is praised because it can play games that the majority of the population did not care about in the first place? Sony wants to look towards the future and not the past. Nintendo did this with DSi. That system can no longer play GBA games but no one complains about that. Why do the other companies get a free pass on BC but it's a strike against Sony?

I am not trying to compare systems, I am just trying to understand why people think the way they do.

It all makes sense EXCEPT!!!!! Why do these games take so long to release. If all they need to do is change some code, these things could be made in a week.

BTW, I hope that you drove to a library used one of their computers to type this up because if your the real deal, Sony's going to be a tad angry and can probably see what computer the post came from.

I couldn't care less if Sony is capable of enabling PS2 BC on all PS3's and is deciding not to to sell PS2 collections. Wanna play PS2 games go buy a PS2 or break out your PS2. I think the collections are worth their price with the addition of HD graphical updates and trophy support. I have a 60gb sku and GOW and GOW 2 upscaled with smoothing don't look anywhere near as good as the collection. Own ICO and SoTC and will be buying the ICO collection too.

any chance of a timesplitters collection then sony? better come up with one or ill snap your arm in half

I still play NES stuff, all I am saying is that people make the BC issue as if it is mandatory. You are right newer is not always better. I am not making the claim that people should forget about the old but if people want to play old games, in this case being PS2, why spend money on PS3? Every system before PS2 did not have BC and it was fine. Is this BC argument going to carry every generation from now on. Are people going to expect PS4 to go all the back to to PS1? What about future systems in the distant future? Are we really going to expect PS11 or the Wii 6 to have go all the back to every system to PS1 and NES? All I am saying if people are going to lay down cash for the newest technology wouldn't they do so because they want to play the newer games more so than the older? Why by the new system, if you just want to play with games from the past? I could see the point if people wanted to play games that were 2 or three generations ago, but the PS2 was just last generation. I don't see how people are natstalgic for something that we just came from and is still on store shelves.

gamenerd15

It's not NOSTALGIA (sp), it's simple love of a great game. It's not looking backwards, it's just looking. The desire for BC has nothing to do with looking fondly on what is past and eschewing what is now... And wanting one piece of hardware in one's living room that takes care of ALL games is far from unreasonable as a dream. Not everyone wants a stack of consoles, controllers, and all the jive piling up. Live with a wife who's not a gamer and see how long the cables, etc. are tollerated...

:lol:

... I don't suffer this fate, but I know men who do, poor buggers. Having one console to play all of your titles can be an argument-saver.

Pretty interesting read. Although I still do want more remastered collections, but Sony should bring back backwards compatibility for those who want it.

[QUOTE="gamenerd15"]

I still play NES stuff, all I am saying is that people make the BC issue as if it is mandatory. You are right newer is not always better. I am not making the claim that people should forget about the old but if people want to play old games, in this case being PS2, why spend money on PS3? Every system before PS2 did not have BC and it was fine. Is this BC argument going to carry every generation from now on. Are people going to expect PS4 to go all the back to to PS1? What about future systems in the distant future? Are we really going to expect PS11 or the Wii 6 to have go all the back to every system to PS1 and NES? All I am saying if people are going to lay down cash for the newest technology wouldn't they do so because they want to play the newer games more so than the older? Why by the new system, if you just want to play with games from the past? I could see the point if people wanted to play games that were 2 or three generations ago, but the PS2 was just last generation. I don't see how people are natstalgic for something that we just came from and is still on store shelves.

MonkeySpot

It's not NOSTALGIA (sp), it's simple love of a great game. It's not looking backwards, it's just looking. The desire for BC has nothing to do with looking fondly on what is past and eschewing what is now... And wanting one piece of hardware in one's living room that takes care of ALL games is far from unreasonable as a dream. Not everyone wants a stack of consoles, controllers, and all the jive piling up. Live with a wife who's not a gamer and see how long the cables, etc. are tollerated...

:lol:

... I don't suffer this fate, but I know men who do, poor buggers. Having one console to play all of your titles can be an argument-saver.

What stack of consoles? It's one system. Having one system that plays all games will never happen, even the PS3's that are BC have some difficulties. I just find it odd that people still have 30+ games they need to play on a last generation system. I can understand maybe 5 to 10 games but to have a huge backlog of games from last generation. There is always games you are going to miss out on no matter what gaming era you are in. Too many people complain about what they can't play and don't focus on the things they can play. If people did want to play a huge backlog of PS2 games, why did they get rid of their PS2? I am not doubting it is a nice feature to have BC but it's not mandatory for enjoyment of what the primary function of a new console is. There are threads like this everyday, with new evidence of how BC might come back or PS2 games on the PSN. I have never known a system's quality to be judged because it can't play games that were meant for it's predecessor. The whole BC arguing is out of control and Sony either needs to finalize something with it. Bring it back or cut it loose with no way for speculation. Maybe I have the opinion I do because I don't have money to play the new games due to college so I am stuck playing old games on the comupter.

I don't mean to argue, I just think people put BC up on a pedestal. More and More games from last generation are coming though. God of War is out, Sly cooper is coming, Sonic Adventure is out. Crazi Taxi is coming, Team Ico collection is coming, I am pretty certain that after the new Ratchet comes out, the PS2 ratchet will come. There have been rumors about a Splinter Cell and Prince of Persia collection coming. Prince of Persia I believe will come. The PS2 versions of splinter cell were said to be bad. I doubt Capcom will do Onimusha or Devil May Cry. I also doubt that Square Enix will release an RPG collection. Either way I hope the issue gets resolved so people can move on in the gaming world instead of being hung up about it.

The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is that playing GoW on my PS3 w/BC @720p with smoothing looks nowhere as good as the HD collection GoW, and it's alot bigger diff than a texture upgrade.Deathtransit

I doubt the OP. Not only does it look better than mere "upscaling" of the original PS2 games I've seen, but also my understanding is that the framerates are completely changed (improved) from the PS2 versions. Didn't the GOW collection lock the framerate at 60 with no slowdowns? Would this happen with a mere "emulation"??? Nevermind the fact that GOW actually does run on PS3 code, and is enabled for trophies.

Regardless of the OP's claims I'd rather have more collections made available. I was more than happy with GOW collection, and am getting the ICO collection on day 1. Hell I'll probably get the Sly collection at some point as well, just not on day 1. I'm looking for more as well. I really don't care about backwards compatibility as I have a Ps2 and could easily track those games down and run them through a AV receiver with HD upscaling. But I'd rather have them remastered ON THE DISC on a blu ray (not "upscaled"), with trophy support added, etc.