What M$ has done to improve GDI performance/improving gaming in 7/review

Link:http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/2009/04/25/engineering-windows-7-for-graphics-performance.aspx

Looks to me with the newer system memory management work theyve done, and this GDI work, Win 7 might be on the cards for me after all my undecided comments and gripes about its similarities to vista, its changing my mind, god damn M$ making me buy things :P

what do you all think?

ok i didnt read much but. if i go and install windows 7 now my games and other apps will run better?

ok i didnt read much but. if i go and install windows 7 now my games and other apps will run better?

JetB1ackNewYear

I can see people will have different experiences I made a review in another forum and added it to my blog on here but ill paste it to here so ya can see

Windows 7
• Faster Boot Times by about 6 seconds
• Theme customizer
• Troubleshooting feature
• Simpler Resource Monitor
• Scalable Resource management (Ram in particular, It's been tweaked)
• Integrated wallpaper changer
• XP Mode
• New taskbar with Aero peek
• IE8 (meh lol)
• Libraries which are good for saving space on the OS drive/partition.
• Aero snap is pretty good, enjoy being able to grab windows and move them about, into either side-by-side, or maximise my window.
• -Dx11 comes with it.
• -Compatibility is just like Vista Sp1's currently (has the same base driver code).
• Punk buster isn't up to scratch yet.
• UAC level changer.

And more I'm yet to discover

Vista Sp1 and What Sp2 brings in comparison to 7's improvements and what sp1 already has brought.
• Sp2 gives your system an overall tune up I expect a possible boot time reduction. But Vista Sp1 boots alright for me from load screen to desktop is approx. 25 seconds (hoping Sp2 reduces this to 20 seconds or less), 7 is approx. 18 seconds, the system is slightly more responsive once you get to 7's desktop, vista needs approx. 2 more seconds to Finish start-up (doesn't matter, Sp2 might help).
• Vista using vistaglazz can be used to patch your files to use any theme from theme creator's websites such as wincustomize or Deviant art. I use Maxclear v3.5 (looks glassy like 7, and have large quick launch icons with regular used stuff added to it, see page 2's post)
• The only troubleshooting features I've seen in Vista are Problem reports & Solutions in the control panel, And a warning/reminder if something may not have installed correctly to install using Recommended Settings, but we're not dumb just Google your problems there's always a solution.
• Vista has a Resource manager which has high detail but maybe its too technical for the normal user, 7 makes it simpler and easier to see, does the normal user even bother to look at it?
• Scalable Resource management - Vista performs great on systems with 1.5 GB+, its optimal though to use 2-3 GB for 32-bit, 3-8 GB 64-bit, Ram is very cheap so why there's noise about Ram and amounts/usage is beyond me. Vista caches ram for faster access as does 7, just 7 leaves more free I think. With 1 regedit you can get vista to do similar (prefetch = 3, super fetch = 2) boots on 800mb of my 4gb and logs in faster. 7 is more scalable though, it's like the regedit trick but working automatically in 7 new PC's these days already have if they are pre-built 2-4gb ram and are coming with 64-bit vista all the time so, even this isn't a big concern these days.
• You can download for free either Caledos Wallpaper changer or Web shots which does the same thing.
• XP mode (for business and ultimate it comes with 7, have to buy with HP and below), you can download M$ virtual machine 2007 sp1 for vista already.
• IE8 is used by the general public, but most users prefer others like Firefox/Chrome/Safari 4, So IE8 may be an improvement over IE7 but is still kind of meh lol.
• Aero peek is good and snap, they do have it in vista as a download, but they don't work the same but very similar, some might argue it's not needed, but I think it adds some flare.
• Vista also gets Dx11.
• Vista and 7's compatibility are the same (sometimes have to run in compatibility-mode)
• But I've read there are issues still with 7 and certain cases of compatibility/stability although some quite minor, others very frustrating. Vista's drivers (which have grown for 3 years) were used in 7's beta builds and RC1, 7 specific drivers are being made now though.
• Punk buster is already supported in Vista.
• Sp2 provides much more in the way for security, networking, few new features and decent amount of bug fixes, it will also save you some space, as its replacing some existing files with sp2 ones, which are smaller and it will clean things up but a lot of people will probably only focus on speed..
• I've heard Reports that Games perform in some cases 5 FPS better in 7, but I'm not 100% on that, but if that's true and with it only being an RC it looks promising, but on the other hand if you upgrade your GPU won't that influence FPS more or a new CPU?
• You can turn UAC off in vista so 7's feature is not such an improvement on that subject lol.

All in all I like Windows 7, it's not the Jump/Leap that XP to Vista was but it may well be worth it, 64-bit Vista support is the best 64-bit Windows support I've seen to this day. I would recommend if you do want to move to Windows 7 from XP or Vista as its showing really significant improvements over Vista, to do so 6 months after its official release, but even when it comes out day 1 it should be great from the get go. But I still think Vista 64-bit IMO is great.

Blogs/previews that are making me want Se7en more and more..
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/win...mory,7644.html
http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/200...rformance.aspx
This most importantlyhttp://www.winsupersite.com/faq/windows_7.asp

We could start a list of things Windows se7en can't do ??

Just to see if it can't do something lol, seems it can do every vista can better and even more, 2 years or more work has gone into 7, and a public release of an RC hasn't happened before right?

Btw if you take a look at the ati driver page there are Windows 7 32/64 bit drivers ati 9.4 :) I've found every game i've tried to play well GTA 4, Crysis, Crysis warhead, Bioshock to name a few.

[QUOTE="JetB1ackNewYear"]

ok i didnt read much but. if i go and install windows 7 now my games and other apps will run better?

Deihmos

My games, and Apps run better, 3dmark score is also 2k higher. :\

Anywho

Unreleased OS is just that, still unreleased. That said, for XP users you really wont have much of a choice but to swap to 7 eventually. Vista users likely have some time until (and if) 7 really shows itself to be that much better and worth the upgrade cost. These next few months will be interesting to watch.

[QUOTE="Deihmos"][QUOTE="JetB1ackNewYear"]

ok i didnt read much but. if i go and install windows 7 now my games and other apps will run better?

Rhamsus

My games, and Apps run better, 3dmark score is also 2k higher. :\

Anywho

Unreleased OS is just that, still unreleased. That said, for XP users you really wont have much of a choice but to swap to 7 eventually. Vista users likely have some time until (and if) 7 really shows itself to be that much better and worth the upgrade cost. These next few months will be interesting to watch.

Does a 3dmark score mean anything and how do applications run better? What does that mean. Most applications run just the same.

Deihmos

I have gotten a nice 5-10FPS increase in a few games, and 3Dmark while not being solely indicative of in game performance does thanks to all the people that provide data to it, generate an excellent sample size for how systems of similar hardware/OS/driver setups will run.

Windows 7 64(7100) bit runs games faster then XP SP3, and Vista 64bit+SP1 for me.

One of the benchies were CS:S.

Everything max, AAx4, AFx16, 1680x1050.

WIN7: 517.09 fps

WINXP: 500.01fps

Vista: 489.03 fps

my friend got the release candidate beta and after using it for a day he reinstalled vista. right now it seems that windows 7 is not compatible with many drivers or at least not ATI drivers. he could play fallout 3 on very high with no problems on vista but it lagged terribly on windows 7. i would wait and make sure that the new drivers are there before you dive into windows 7.NightmareCV

basically XP is growing long in the tooth, and its looking dry, drab and plain, it lacks features/apps/extra useful tools/dx10 n 11 support that vista and 7 use. The new kernel, new memory management, all the features and apps, and big differences across the new os's 7/vista and the refined aero interface and new taskbar make 7 the best choice over XP, vista is great too because it was a step in the new/right direction of OS evolution. Anyone who doesn't think this is living in the past on an inferior OS whereas us people that are in the now, are swimming along on a awesome new OS which is already thrashing XP :P

Got another thing here showing how 7 will smash and/or make improvements over vista.http://gizmodo.com/5070219/giz-explains-why-windows-7-will-smash-vista

I should stress people who dont like the new taskbar, dont be afraid of it, it takes maybe few mins to get used to but you'll learn to love it i think.

IF you still don't think 7 is advancement i suggest you do loads of research on it, read everything it has to offer. more infohttp://blogs.msdn.com/e7/default.aspxand morehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_7

so your saying classic view will change my start menu programs so i don't have this 6 inch box with 100 programs in it that i have to scroll through?machiavell8x8

well clearly your not using it right then because first off its alphabetical, and second off you don't need a magnifying glass to read it, and third you don't have to scroll for nothing, its CLEARLY better than what windows 7 uses stock. and don't get me started on the task bar....the one and only thing i like about that is how webpages work with it. but im sure it only works with "microsofts" webbrowser, at least i couldn't get firefox to work with it....

well clearly your not using it right then because first off its alphabetical, and second off you don't need a magnifying glass to read it, and third you don't have to scroll for nothing, its CLEARLY better than what windows 7 uses stock. and don't get me started on the task bar....the one and only thing i like about that is how webpages work with it. but im sure it only works with "microsofts" webbrowser, at least i couldn't get firefox to work with it....

machiavell8x8

so your saying classic view will change my start menu programs so i don't have this 6 inch box with 100 programs in it that i have to scroll through?machiavell8x8

CLEARLY, you can't read at all, i was talking about how i hate the task bar, and then said the one and only thing i liked about it was how webpages worked with it. i could not get firefox to work with the taskbar like the microsoft browser does.......machiavell8x8

6 inch start menu, why is that bad? you on a 10" screen(even then you can resize things)? I'm using win 7 now, and i see a start menu with all my most used programs dynamically added onto it for faster use, and im able to navigate through the the superbar with such ease its a breeze to use, XP is boring as hell, and clunky, and i agree 7 is improving the user environment by making things way easier to find/use. Its jam packed with all kinds of new stuff thats so useful, and guess wut? you can get all these new features, and win7 all running on a machine with 512mb ram efficiently, i mean damn i got screenies of me doing it so..so get ur arse outta the darkages and move on to the now lol!

Can't believe some people who just don't like advancement. If you don't think windows 7 is advancement then your saying many people who have worked hard for years on 7 development are "lazy, unthinking, idiots who dont know what the users want." If you do then your wrong on many levels, 1. public beta! M$ listened to its public users and is making 7 the most user friendly/fast/useful OS yet 2. M$ fixed 2000 bugs between beta 1 and RC, alot reported by the public itself, so they are working hard and listening.

Stay with XP if you dont have the money, don't play games that require dx10/11, stick with dx9 its great but it was great years ago too, dx10/11 is new and 7/vista which are improving the industry, but staying with XP and dx9 is just bogging it down.

Although before vista and 7 i used XP for a few years it is good, not saying it isnt, but people like you are hindering progress, thank you.

Seems some have a stigma.

[QUOTE="JetB1ackNewYear"]

ok i didnt read much but. if i go and install windows 7 now my games and other apps will run better?

Deihmos

Are you joking? Windows 7 is much faster!

Uhmm there isn't many games that use Directx 10 atm and there already making Directx 11? kinda silly if you ask me..

Im sticking with XP untill i get a New computer in 1-2 years time then i will get windows 7

Well I know why M$ didnt put dx10 support in XP, because they are a company and companies like to make money. I assume you have Windows 7 RC installed? If you can give us a few reasons why its not evolution of the M$ OS platform I'd like to hear it, it's almost like saying because a piece of software has worked well for the past 8 years, that a new OS with a redefined UI/tools/options/features/folder options which benefit the user experience over its predecessors, increased productivity, and is actually fun to use, and let's not forget there are benchmarks showing that Windows 7 is an improvement over XP in the gaming world and so your way of thinking is telling me that we should just abandon any innovation or future ways of thinking because the old wooden cart is in some way suprerior to the car?

Other thing is that 7 has much more in the way of features, and changes that make it such a better OS to use the whole experience really is a step up!, many have been turned from XP to 7 because of how good it is, many have said its going to be what replaces XP in most homes, I say most because there are some die hard fans of XP's simple, clunky, comfort zone that change is just a foreign concept.

You know theres an XP mode in windows 7, so if you wish to use the old OS for stuff that isnt supported by 7, although nearly everything is, then you can.

So you have 7 installed I take it? why not do your homework on 7, and read and experience what is new about it. If you do, have you tried the new superbar? its great, you get to have all the windows open you like but its made it so it doesn't clog your taskbar with loads of windows across it, you can preview all pages for quick reference, once you have a certain amount of windows open lets say 12 it dynamically stacks them in a vertical list, with 4-8 windows for example you have the mini window previews and are able to hover across them previewing them in full screen which helps when your having to double check something or just general browsing, Aero peek is a fantastic feature for previewing pages (I like this a lot). You can also right click your IE8 and such like to see the most recent pages you've visited, which just makes things quicker and less clicks of the mouse. Don't know why the start menu is an issue really.

Ok so jumplists, in the start menu you have your most used programs dynamically added to the start menu, and theres an arrow which opens the jumplist to the most recent files you opened using that specific program.

Have you tried the libraries? you could have a 60gb main hdd, and a 500gb back up drive and link your media data from your back up to the main drive, without taking up space on the main drive, which then can be saved for your OS/apps and games. Theres also a function in explorer to go to recent places, which shows recent folders you've been in so less mouse clicks again. The whole explorer is cleaned up and easy to see. Home group is great for home networking, for speed and security. Remote desktop connection can access files from another pc on ur network quickly, remote streaming of media and such like is a great feature through wmp12, you can access music/video/pics from any PC on your network as i understand it. The network and sharing center is clean and simple to use yet has many options.

Aero snap is great for managing windows you have open, you are able to grab maximized windows and move them to either side of the screen, for example have a webpage open, move that to the left and open your library and snap that to the right, makes it so you can find stuff easier if your downloading or if your just comparing 2 things on the same screen, the aero snap feature is perfect for this, and yes you can grab it and snap it back to maximized. If you want quick access to your desktop you can hover over the show desktop icon on the far right to see your previewed desktop, or click it to actually show desktop.

Another great feature similar to this but it keeps the window your working on there, is aero shake, if you have multiple windows open, you grab ur window u want to keep while at the same time wanting to access your desktop and literally shake the window to minimise the others, and there ya go can access desktop stuff, without having to click more than the 1 time, but before on xp/vista you'd have to minimize window after window after window if you want to get to the desktop.

The Start menu search function has been greatly improved and much faster than previous windows versions too from my experience. If you wish to have a smaller taskbar just right click it, go to properties, and tick "use small icons".

Desktop gadgets have also been improved to use less resources and are really cool for say system monitoring, clocks, calenders, weather, news, search engines, you name it. The snipping tool also in vista, is rather cool you can highlight any part of your screen by dragging the mouse across it and have it saved as an image, any size, shape.

The new troubleshooter is great for issues you may have, the new action center is great for security and things that windows may bring to your attention like out of date anti-virus definitions/ solutions to any problems. The control panel has more options than any windows ive seen. Networking has been greatly improved. Better device handling, also windows update has a butt load of drivers for your devices its amazing. 7 is very customizable to whatever you want it to look like color/transparency/new sound scheme sets and has a nifty wallpaper changer feature too. They give us so many options its just great, you feel more like you are in complete control. Compatibility has not been an issue for me on anything while using the RC. The new games explorer is great, it automatically finds games installed on your system, and looks for updates for you too and also when you hover over the icons, it gives detailed info on the games story and genre on most games ive tried.

If your worried about system req. I've ran build 7000 in a VM on 512 mb ram, smoothly.

I don't mean to be offensive or anything just trying to help ya understand how good it is, or help explain why I think it is, even if you don't prefer it, i'm sure in the future you may change your mind about it, and i hope you will :) Also do like to stress that it does have XP mode, if you really need it, its a built in VM ware that runs XP virtually its easily accessable and devices will be found automatically and such btw.

im thinking about upgrading to windows 7, but definately not until SP1 comes out for it.

until then, ill stick with vista.

which will be a year easily.

and vista can do dx11 so when i upgrade gpu to the second or third wave dx11 gpu's ill be covered on that,

and im sure the new phenom II 940 deneb wont pose a problem for either OS.

after experiencing 7, I actually want it day one, and it has been reported by some sites that the sp1 for it wont be like what previous windows have been because theyre testing 7 so thoroughly and letting us help for a whole year for free ! that I seem to remember the sp1 being rumoured that it'll be minor bug fixes, and other stuff thats important.

Also a link to good info on 7 :http://www.winsupersite.com/win7/win7_rc.aspsee all pages.

after experiencing 7, I actually want it day one, and it has been reported by some sites that the sp1 for it wont be like what previous windows have been because theyre testing 7 so thoroughly and letting us help for a whole year for free ! that I seem to remember the sp1 being rumoured that it'll be minor bug fixes, and other stuff thats important.

Also a link to good info on 7 :http://www.winsupersite.com/win7/win7_rc.aspsee all pages.

jamesfffan

not saying your wrong, but ill wait till launch and see whats actually what, and see what sp2 for vista provides before i make any costly decisions.

yeah in fact im also looking forward to vista sp2, ive found vista sp1 to be nippy as 7 almost actually, but new memory management and game performane might be the deciding factor for me, although i find 7 easier and slightly faster to use in an overall way, its a different experience, its alot more fun to use.

got some info for the start menu issue 2 pics

would it be possible if i get Windows 7 to run in XP mode all the time? would that allow for all my older games to work fine?

Well from trying XP mode out its more for older programs and office stuff really. Graphics isnt what XP mode is for i think not enough shared vram etc.. you can always "run in compatibility mode with XP" using 7.

you guys ever tried the superfetch regedit, prefetch = 3 and superfetch = 2, it makes the ram usage change to something similar to 7 oddly enough, vista boots faster also.

Plus, the DX11 pipelines are getting 3 new advanced tessellation stages. The DX11 3D models should use about 10X less VRAM than the original models, while still achieving the same level of detail...-GeordiLaForge-

so your saying classic view will change my start menu programs so i don't have this 6 inch box with 100 programs in it that i have to scroll through?machiavell8x8

Wow, you're doing it wrong.

Ever heard of Start Search..? You know, one of the few major in-built advantages Vista/Win7 has over XP? That little thing that renders the programs menu (and your complaint) completely useless unless you have no idea what you're looking for?

Windows Key-->type what you're looking for-->Hit Enter.

Learn to love it :P ..it's so much more efficient.

[QUOTE="-GeordiLaForge-"]Plus, the DX11 pipelines are getting 3 new advanced tessellation stages. The DX11 3D models should use about 10X less VRAM than the original models, while still achieving the same level of detail...mouthforbathory

Well I've taken the time to find features and stuff that I think are great on windows 7, and even a screenshot of 7 running on a vm with 512mb smoothly.

I hope you see all the cool stuff thats being implemented, and those of you enjoying Win 7 RC please add anything I may have missed, 7 is the experience vista should have been, and still think its the best OS M$ has made yet, 7 gives us more control and options over what you want to do, isnt that what a lot of people want? Though I do agree for better performance on really low end PC's and netbooks XP is the choice to go for, high-end i'd go for 7 because its leaps and bounds past XP in the features/options/UI/graphical capabilities/fun/speed where it counts, and including everything i've listed in previous posts.

links to some screens I picked out:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/mzymotdw1mo/control panel.rar

http://www.mediafire.com/file/4yjunawwytm/More Features.rar

http://www.mediafire.com/file/oxhitmtqjld/Theme.rar

http://www.mediafire.com/file/tt2tj1wejdl/UI.rar

just found another thing for aero snap when resizing a window where it shows like a double ended arrow, you can drag it to the bottom, side or top and it will auto-resize for you, kinda cool huh.

[QUOTE="machiavell8x8"]so your saying classic view will change my start menu programs so i don't have this 6 inch box with 100 programs in it that i have to scroll through?Velocitas8

Wow, you're doing it wrong.

Ever heard of Start Search..? You know, one of the few major in-built advantages Vista/Win7 has over XP? That little thing that renders the programs menu (and your complaint) completely useless unless you have no idea what you're looking for?

Windows Key-->type what you're looking for-->Hit Enter.

Learn to love it :P ..it's so much more efficient.

[QUOTE="mouthforbathory"][QUOTE="-GeordiLaForge-"]Plus, the DX11 pipelines are getting 3 new advanced tessellation stages. The DX11 3D models should use about 10X less VRAM than the original models, while still achieving the same level of detail...-GeordiLaForge-

well that just proved it, you don't like 7 because it isnt XP, I try to help you, and you just say reduce? and stopped reading, you wanted a smaller start menu, i give you it, and still you want to argue about that? seems sad tbh. If you want it bigger, just see the first screen i posted and increase the values. Soon this year I think there will be a lot of happy windows 7 users when it comes out, and those on xp will be left out to rot.

XP must have its sucessor.

well that just proved it, you don't like 7 because it isnt XP, I try to help you, and you just say reduce? and stopped reading, you wanted a smaller start menu, i give you it, and still you want to argue about that? seems sad tbh. If you want it bigger, just see the first screen i posted and increase the values. Soon this year I think there will be a lot of happy windows 7 users when it comes out, and those on xp will be left out to rot.

XP must have its sucessor.

jamesfffan

dont worry friend.

most people are slaves of yesterday. meaning slaves of tradition and they are afraid of change.

though it is a fact one cannot evolve without changing.