RPG without a combat-essential storyline?

Combat in RPG has always played a central part, but now it seems the RPG elements seems to vanish more and more, leaving only combat, FPS style. Where is the RPG with a story that has problems and solutions that can push the game forward without using combat? Take the RPG Vampire: the Masquerade for instance. Lots of combat, but also almost no combat if you wanted to solve the game without violence. I want a RPG with lots of customization, good storyline with voiced dialogue and options to resolve problems without always using combat. Where is it? Anyone?

I haven't played it yet, but I heard that Deus Ex: Human Revolution can be completed in a largely non-lethal manner, except for the boss fights.

I haven't played it yet, but I heard that Deus Ex: Human Revolution can be completed in a largely non-lethal manner, except for the boss fights.

Falconoffury

Well, theres Planescape:Torment. A high Wisdom score will get you out of most combat situations. Even so, you're immortal, so failure in combat is nearly meaningless. Older title, so it doesn't meet all of your requirements.

That's certainly one thing that's quickly becoming non existent.

It's funny that at the same time, the combat in RPGs are becoming much worse.

@falconoffury and BigBeebis

Sure, but Deus Ex offers almost no customization besides implants, you can't create your own character with personality. You're playing a security dude with implants in Deus Ex. Sure, I liked the dialogue and the social options, but still too narrow, with only stealth/violence options to resolve situations just like Splinter Cell games. Not enough RPG for me.

@Xaosll

I liked Planescape Torment when it came. But it still got a D&D-system that made the game a very combat-based experience. You couldn't get to a very high level by being social, for instance. Most of the XP to level you got from slaying monsters.

@falconoffury and BigBeebis

Sure, but Deus Ex offers almost no customization besides implants, you can't create your own character with personality. You're playing a security dude with implants in Deus Ex. Sure, I liked the dialogue and the social options, but still too narrow, with only stealth/violence options to resolve situations just like Splinter Cell games. Not enough RPG for me.

@Xaosll

I liked Planescape Torment when it came. But it still got a D&D-system that made the game a very combat-based experience. You couldn't get to a very high level by being social, for instance. Most of the XP to level you got from slaying monsters.

brunalven

Read a book?

Fallout, I think.

Fallout, I think.

tjricardo089

I haven't played it yet, but I heard that Deus Ex: Human Revolution can be completed in a largely non-lethal manner, except for the boss fights.

Falconoffury

@Wasdie

Why? Do you know any book that interacts? Do you know any good books that let's me customize my own character and makes me feel like I'm part of the story?

RPG without combat == adventure games

Try Broken Sword, Syberia, Monkey Island

Fallout NV has a lot of non-combat choices. Yes, you do still have to shoot things in the face but there are quite a few quests you can solve by simply talking your way out of the situation. Both Fallout and Fallout 2 can be played with never killing anything, too.

Unfortunately, not many new RPGs do what you're asking for but that's mostly because, regardless what the developers and publishers call them, they're not really RPGs. Your character choices (if they can even be called choices) basically boil down to playing either a good Rambo who shoots everything in the face or a slightly grumpy, "bad" Rambo, who also shoots everything in the face.

Then again, most new RPGs are designed to be played by soccer moms so....uhm....yeah....

RPG without combat == adventure games

Try Broken Sword, Syberia, Monkey Island

Darth_Kane

You´re missing the point. RPG without combat is NOT the same as adventure games. Also, I'm not after a RPG without combat, just a RPG where combat is non-essential.

Also, let me add something to the discussion: Is it only I that demand this of the RPG-industry and everybody else wants RPG to be solely about combat? Or is it just no market to satisfy the needs for old geezers, like me?

The choice to use violence or not is what makes it an RPG. MythPro1

I totally agree, so why can't I do that in RPG's? Skyrim for instance? Or the Witcher? Or Fallout NV? Or Mass Effect? Or Dragon Age?

@Wasdie

Why? Do you know any book that interacts? Do you know any good books that let's me customize my own character and makes me feel like I'm part of the story?

brunalven

Looney Tunes colour books?

[QUOTE="brunalven"]

@Wasdie

Why? Do you know any book that interacts? Do you know any good books that let's me customize my own character and makes me feel like I'm part of the story?

DraugenCP

Looney Tunes colour books?

Oh, look! Another funny guy.

@Wasdie

Why? Do you know any book that interacts? Do you know any good books that let's me customize my own character and makes me feel like I'm part of the story?

brunalven

Can't make your own character (so pretend it's a JRPG) but here.

You're really just talking about an interactive novel. Without the combat there isn't much to most games. I do know that you'll be able to play Mass Effect 3 without actually doing any combat. You can literally just talk to people.

Arcanum ? It's made by Trokia, the same ones devs that did Bloodlines. Most combat can be avoided in Planescape, like a previous poster had mentioned.

Hmmm it's easier to find something like that in mmos where there exist non-combat classes but an rpg where combat isn't essential? That's tough and you'd pretty much be looking at the sandbox genre exclusively. It also depends what you believe constitutes an rpg, if you're looking for say, something like a DnD based system I don't think a game like that exists.

Combat in RPG has always played a central part, but now it seems the RPG elements seems to vanish more and more, leaving only combat, FPS style. Where is the RPG with a story that has problems and solutions that can push the game forward without using combat? Take the RPG Vampire: the Masquerade for instance. Lots of combat, but also almost no combat if you wanted to solve the game without violence. I want a RPG with lots of customization, good storyline with voiced dialogue and options to resolve problems without always using combat. Where is it? Anyone?

brunalven

Interesting post.

I don't think there's any games out there that matches what you're talking about. There are some that have elements of it though:

Fallout 1-2 and NV. The games tend to be fairly good (though not consistent) about offering you a non-combat way out. However, while it's a neat touch it's also fairly clear that the designers expected players to use combat a lot if not most of the time.

Deus Ex. I disagree with Deus Ex in this context, as much as I love the game, it's not really a game that can be played without engaging in combat. It might give you non-lethal combat options, but combat nevertheless. Shooting someone with a tranquilizer dart is still combat.

Mass Effect 1-2. While you cannot avoid combat by any stretch of the imagination, the game does offer a strong emphasis on non-combat-centric character dialog, story and choice. So while the game certainly forces you into a lot of combat, it's also one of the games with the most non-combat activities.

Another interesting option might be King of Dragon Pass. There's a couple of caveats for this on as well. For one, the PC version is from '99, though the game was recently re-released for iPod and iPad's. Second the focus is on 'your' tribe rather than a main character and lastly there's not voice.

It does however do a very good job of offering both combat and non-combat options to solve your problems along with very deep game play and lots of story. -www.gamezebo.com/games/king-dragon-pass/review

Hmm...I've always found Arcanum to be a fairly combat intensive game and, unlike FO and FO2, I don't believe it is possible to complete the game without ever fighting. I suppose it might be possible to crank up beauty and charisma and let your companions do all the heavy lifting but that's really just splitting hairs, it's still combat.

Out of newer RPGs, I still find NV to be one of the few that actually lets players minimize (although, sadly, not eliminate) the role combat plays in character development.

In RPGs I usually make my character with a high speech skill so I can limit the amount of combat but now that I've been enlightened (thank you Gamespot!) I think I'd be better off reading a book or playing adventure games instead. I had no idea that had been playing my RPGs all wrong! :roll:

RPG without combat is called an adventure game.

Try Avadon, Planscape Torment or New Vegas. Dont fit all the stuff you asked but some of them.

[QUOTE="tjricardo089"]

Fallout, I think.

bigbeebis

You can go through the entire game without killing anyone, I've done it. Even made the final boss kill himself through dialog options.

RPG without combat is called an adventure game.

Johnny_Rock

Why? I can't find that definition? To me RPG is the opportunity to customize a character to make it unique in the gameworld and then have the possibility to make different choices in the game that changes the storyline. And I don't mean just skill customization, but also character look and personality customization. Can't get that in an adventure game.

Thx Mazoch and -wildflower- for your insightful input!

I do know that you'll be able to play Mass Effect 3 without actually doing any combat. You can literally just talk to people.

Wasdie

How do you figure? Don't get me wrong, I love ME1 and ME2, but there's no avoiding combat in those games. So why would ME3 be any different. To me it seems like the ME-series is getting less RPG and more FPS.

[QUOTE="tjricardo089"]

Fallout, I think.

bigbeebis

The first half or so of Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines.

[QUOTE="bigbeebis"]

[QUOTE="tjricardo089"]

Fallout, I think.

ArchonOver

Im pretty sure F3 can be completed without killing anything as well. Also I could have sworn that you could convince the F2 boss to kill himself. However with that said, for all three games combat was always a central element.

[QUOTE="brunalven"]

@Wasdie

Why? Do you know any book that interacts? Do you know any good books that let's me customize my own character and makes me feel like I'm part of the story?

DraugenCP

Looney Tunes colour books?

[QUOTE="MythPro1"]The choice to use violence or not is what makes it an RPG. brunalven

I totally agree, so why can't I do that in RPG's? Skyrim for instance? Or the Witcher? Or Fallout NV? Or Mass Effect? Or Dragon Age?

Ehm... The Guild 2: Renaissance...Minecraft...Dwarf Fortress, unfortunately all without a story line to follow. Thief maybe?

Hard pressed to come up with RPGs without the need for violence.

@Xaosll

I liked Planescape Torment when it came. But it still got a D&D-system that made the game a very combat-based experience. You couldn't get to a very high level by being social, for instance. Most of the XP to level you got from slaying monsters.

brunalven

well that's simply wrong. most of the xp in torment you get by completing quests and passing skill checks in dialogues (uncovering stuff with your int/wis, for example). the combat in torment consisted of the occasional thug encounters in sigil which gave barely any xp, a pretty short catacombs section, modron cube (which is, again, pretty short, and i'm sure you got more xp by simply gaining access to modron cube, than killing everything inside), ravel's maze, which is just one room, and talking to ravel in the right way gives you most of tthe xp of that place (you can get huge exp rewards and stat boosts several times during that conversation, i think, by picking the right options and using your WIS), carceri/baator (the largest and most annoying combat section in the game) and the fortress. by the time you reach carceri/fortress the xp reward from monsters will pretty much get you nowhere. iirc, in the fortress the shadow monsters you kill give you 15k exp each. talking to your past selves gives you ~120k for each new important thing you uncover. finding out your true name from the bronze orb gives you 2 million.

Combat in RPG has always played a central part, but now it seems the RPG elements seems to vanish more and more, leaving only combat, FPS style. Where is the RPG with a story that has problems and solutions that can push the game forward without using combat? Take the RPG Vampire: the Masquerade for instance. Lots of combat, but also almost no combat if you wanted to solve the game without violence. I want a RPG with lots of customization, good storyline with voiced dialogue and options to resolve problems without always using combat. Where is it? Anyone?

brunalven

Vampire: Bloodlines. And Arcanum, to a lesser extent.

edit: nvm, should've read the entire OP. I guess you could try Arcanum, if you don't mind older games.

[QUOTE="brunalven"]

@Wasdie

Why? Do you know any book that interacts? Do you know any good books that let's me customize my own character and makes me feel like I'm part of the story?

Wasdie

Can't make your own character (so pretend it's a JRPG) but here.

You're really just talking about an interactive novel. Without the combat there isn't much to most games. I do know that you'll be able to play Mass Effect 3 without actually doing any combat. You can literally just talk to people.

That's not exactly *helpful*, and also untrue imo. Games, especially RPGs could be so much more without the excessive emphasis on combat. To imply that video games basically *equal* combat more or less is doing the whole medium a great disservice. Telling the OP to go read a book makes no sense since he requested a fundamentally different format, one that can provide a far greater level of interactivity than a Choose Your Own Adventure book.

Just look at Portal, or the Sims, or even Bloodlines. Roleplaying has an entirely different meaning than killing stuff.

RPG without combat is called an adventure game.

Johnny_Rock

Then maybe you should pick up a tabletop roleplaying game sometime. The RPG genre as a whole is as far as you can get from just that (at least if you want it to be).

My little Pony the RPG!!. Not that I've played it but it looks like what you're looking for no?

[QUOTE="Johnny_Rock"]

RPG without combat is called an adventure game.brunalven

Why? I can't find that definition? To me RPG is the opportunity to customize a character to make it unique in the gameworld and then have the possibility to make different choices in the game that changes the storyline. And I don't mean just skill customization, but also character look and personality customization. Can't get that in an adventure game.

Those things are absent in a LOT of RPGs specifically JRPGs (like Final Fantasy) and Hack n Slash Action RPGs (Diablo, Titan Quest etc.). So, that's pretty much only YOUR definition of an RPG

RPG without combat == adventure games

Try Broken Sword, Syberia, Monkey Island

[QUOTE="brunalven"]

@Wasdie

Why? Do you know any book that interacts? Do you know any good books that let's me customize my own character and makes me feel like I'm part of the story?

DraugenCP

Looney Tunes colour books?

[QUOTE="Johnny_Rock"]

RPG without combat is called an adventure game.

Jabby250

Then maybe you should pick up a tabletop roleplaying game sometime.

Mind telling me any adventure in any pen&paper roleplaying game where combat isn't a majority of the adventure or where the climax of the campaign isn't combat based?