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[QUOTE="JML897"]So, those Catholic Priests that did stuff with little boys...they're great citizens?
redban2
If a priest molested a toddler, then do they do they really have deep faith in their religion? No, there're in disguise..just a masquerade . Those priests do not have true faith in their religion.
Then what do you mean by people that have deep faith? Certainly many people with deep faith have killed in the name of that faith. I think your whole argument is wrong.
I can't answer that.....since coming to OT I've gotten an unfavorable opinion of atheists. While I know not all individuals in a group are similiar...it gives me pause now.LJS9502_basicUnderstandable; it's unfortunate that there are so many evangelical, fundamentalist atheists :(
[QUOTE="JML897"]So, those Catholic Priests that did stuff with little boys...they're great citizens?
redban2
If a priest molested a toddler, then do they do they really have deep faith in their religion? No, there're in disguise..just a masquerade . Those priests do not have true faith in their religion.
Alright, fair enough.
In the Bible, it says it's okay to kill a disobedient child. Also, it says it's okay to sell your daughter into slavery.
So, let's say some guy tries to prostitute his daughter. But, she refuses -- so, the father kills her. Would he be alright? I mean, nothing he did went against the Bible. In fact, the Bible supports him.
One of the sole purposes of religion is to control and create order in society. Christianity was at its height during the dark ages where there were no strong central governments in Europe. Now that we have a strong central government, religion is not needed as much, and certainly should not be the driving force behind policy-making.
What is better- someone who is a good person because they are "god-fearing" and wants to get into heaven (sounds kind of selfish to me), or an atheist who is a good person because it is the right thing to do?
I can't answer that.....since coming to OT I've gotten an unfavorable opinion of atheists. While I know not all individuals in a group are similiar...it gives me pause now.LJS9502_basicSame thing happened to me, except for Brits.
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I can't answer that.....since coming to OT I've gotten an unfavorable opinion of atheists. While I know not all individuals in a group are similiar...it gives me pause now.helium_flashSame thing happened to me, except for Brits.same here. luckily i know a few atheists in real life that are actually atheist and dont believe in anything and dont ccare what anyone else believes. its always funny how some atheists believe in no higher power so strongly that they need evangelists and weekly meetings.
So you guys are saying that a person being athiest has no impact at all?
Let's say 2 candidates have equally appealing views to you. Meaning you like them both equally.
But you find out one is athiest and one is not.
Then what? Any impact? would lean towards to the candidate who believes in God? Would you prefer atheist?
So you guys are saying that a person being athiest has no impact at all?
Let's say 2 candidates have equally appealing views to you. Meaning you like them both equally.
But you find out one is athiest and one is not.
Then what? Any impact? would lean towards to the candidate who believes in God? Would you prefer atheist?
redban2
if they were both exactly the same in everyway except religion, id pick the one thats most like myself(atheist).
So you guys are saying that a person being athiest has no impact at all?
Let's say 2 candidates have equally appealing views to you. Meaning you like them both equally.
But you find out one is athiest and one is not.
Then what? Any impact? would lean towards to the candidate who believes in God? Would you prefer atheist?
redban2
If all else is equal, I would go for the atheist if the religious one lets his views affect his policy-making.
definatley....
Maybe hed make some decisions using logic and common sense rather than letting religious beliefs get in the way....
And are those stats true?? If they are then we have lost our minds...
I can't answer that.....since coming to OT I've gotten an unfavorable opinion of atheists. While I know not all individuals in a group are similiar...it gives me pause now.LJS9502_basicShame. :(
luckily not everyone is exactly the same. the situation you put up there is laughable. of course someone in that situation would vote for whoever they could associate with more. back to REALITY though, I would ALWAYS vote for the better leader with more intelligent policies on our foreign and dometsic relations.So you guys are saying that a person being athiest has no impact at all?
Let's say 2 candidates have equally appealing views to you. Meaning you like them both equally.
But you find out one is athiest and one is not.
Then what? Any impact? would lean towards to the candidate who believes in God? Would you prefer atheist?
redban2
[QUOTE="redban2"][QUOTE="JML897"]So, those Catholic Priests that did stuff with little boys...they're great citizens?
JML897
If a priest molested a toddler, then do they do they really have deep faith in their religion? No, there're in disguise..just a masquerade . Those priests do not have true faith in their religion.
Alright, fair enough.
In the Bible, 1. it says it's okay to kill a disobedient child. Also, it says it's okay to sell your daughter into slavery.
So, let's say some guy tries to 2. prostitute his daughter. But, she refuses -- so, the father kills her. Would he be alright? I mean, nothing he did went against the Bible. In fact, the Bible supports him.
1.curseth The term {yekallel} signifies not only to curse, but to speak contemptuously, disrespectfully, or to make light of a person: so that all speeches which have a tendency to lessen our parents in the eyes of others, or to render their judgment, piety, etc., suspected or contemptible, is her included; though the act of cursing, or of treating the parent with injurious or opprobrious language, is what is particularly intended. He who conscientiously keeps the {fifth} commandment, can be in no danger of the judgment here denounced2. if a man sell his daughter-Hebrew girls might be redeemed for a reasonable sum. But in the event of her parents or friends being unable to pay the redemption money, her owner was not at liberty to sell her elsewhere. Should she have been betrothed to him or his son, and either change their minds, a maintenance must be provided for her suitable to her condition as his intended wife, or her freedom instantly granted. Usually this was the case that people usually sold their daughters because they were in debt or in some form of trouble.
[QUOTE="JML897"][QUOTE="redban2"][QUOTE="JML897"]So, those Catholic Priests that did stuff with little boys...they're great citizens?
greenprince
If a priest molested a toddler, then do they do they really have deep faith in their religion? No, there're in disguise..just a masquerade . Those priests do not have true faith in their religion.
Alright, fair enough.
In the Bible, 1. it says it's okay to kill a disobedient child. Also, it says it's okay to sell your daughter into slavery.
So, let's say some guy tries to 2. prostitute his daughter. But, she refuses -- so, the father kills her. Would he be alright? I mean, nothing he did went against the Bible. In fact, the Bible supports him.
1.curseth The term {yekallel} signifies not only to curse, but to speak contemptuously, disrespectfully, or to make light of a person: so that all speeches which have a tendency to lessen our parents in the eyes of others, or to render their judgment, piety, etc., suspected or contemptible, is her included; though the act of cursing, or of treating the parent with injurious or opprobrious language, is what is particularly intended. He who conscientiously keeps the {fifth} commandment, can be in no danger of the judgment here denounced2. if a man sell his daughter-Hebrew girls might be redeemed for a reasonable sum. But in the event of her parents or friends being unable to pay the redemption money, her owner was not at liberty to sell her elsewhere. Should she have been betrothed to him or his son, and either change their minds, a maintenance must be provided for her suitable to her condition as his intended wife, or her freedom instantly granted. Usually this was the case that people usually sold their daughters because they were in debt or in some form of trouble.
Surely you aren't forming apologia for these principles? While I'm sure they were just swell for the period in which they were devised, they are absolutely reprehensible by any contemporary ethical standard.[QUOTE="Jandurin"]Of course. God has no place in politics.
I should say: God should have no place in politics. Reality, unfortunately, follows different rules than ideal.
Litchie
I agree.
I disagree
[QUOTE="greenprince"][QUOTE="JML897"][QUOTE="redban2"][QUOTE="JML897"]So, those Catholic Priests that did stuff with little boys...they're great citizens?
xaos
If a priest molested a toddler, then do they do they really have deep faith in their religion? No, there're in disguise..just a masquerade . Those priests do not have true faith in their religion.
Alright, fair enough.
In the Bible, 1.it says it's okay to kill a disobedient child. Also, it says it's okay to sell your daughter into slavery.
So, let's say some guy tries to 2. prostitute his daughter. But, she refuses -- so, the father kills her. Would he be alright? I mean, nothing he did went against the Bible. In fact, the Bible supports him.
1.curseth The term {yekallel} signifies not only to curse, but to speak contemptuously, disrespectfully, or to make light of a person: so that all speeches which have a tendency to lessen our parents in the eyes of others, or to render their judgment, piety, etc., suspected or contemptible, is her included; though the act of cursing, or of treating the parent with injurious or opprobrious language, is what is particularly intended. He who conscientiously keeps the {fifth} commandment, can be in no danger of the judgment here denounced2. if a man sell his daughter-Hebrew girls might be redeemed for a reasonable sum. But in the event of her parents or friends being unable to pay the redemption money, her owner was not at liberty to sell her elsewhere. Should she have been betrothed to him or his son, and either change their minds, a maintenance must be provided for her suitable to her condition as his intended wife, or her freedom instantly granted. Usually this was the case that people usually sold their daughters because they were in debt or in some form of trouble.
Surely you aren't forming apologia for these principles? While I'm sure they were just swell for the period in which they were devised, they are absolutely reprehensible by any contemporary ethical standard.Of course not, I'm a Liberal Christian ( check it out in the Internet ) And despite that the Authors were inspired by God, they were still humans and thus act accordly on their basic instincts of what they believed in was right. I do not just read the English version but I look for other resources and the original texts to see if these unusual cruel acts or verses that go against science were really taken as literal or because of wrong translations or because it was metaphorical.Both of these passages are a part of the Levitical holiness code, which is not kept by any Christian group. If it was enforced, almost every Christian would be excommunicated or executed. It has been logically argued that science and progress have made many of the Levitical laws irrelevant. For example, fundamentalist author Tim LaHaye states that, although Levitical laws prohibit intercourse during menstruation, medical authorities do not view it as harmful, and, therefore, it should not be viewed as sinful. He further explains, "Those laws were given 3,500 years ago before showers and baths were convenient, before tampons, disinfectants and other improved means of sanitation had been invented." (The Act of Marriage, p.275) With that, LaHaye makes this law irrelevant and rightly so. Ironically, though, in his book, The Unhappy Gay the Levitical laws are one of the chief cornerstones of his arguments. Much of the holiness code is now irrelevant for us as moral law. Thus, having children, which was of exceptional importance to the early Hebrews, is now made less relevant by overpopulation, just as the prohibition against eating pork and shellfish has been made irrelevant by refrigeration.
[QUOTE="Litchie"][QUOTE="Jandurin"]Of course. God has no place in politics.
I should say: God should have no place in politics. Reality, unfortunately, follows different rules than ideal.
battlefront23
I agree.
I disagree
Would each of you care to justify your viewpoints?...
[QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="Litchie"][QUOTE="Jandurin"]Of course. God has no place in politics.
I should say: God should have no place in politics. Reality, unfortunately, follows different rules than ideal.
Fortier
I agree.
I disagree
Would each of you care to justify your viewpoints?...
The simple answer that I know I'm gonna get flamed for... becasue man is flawed...
[QUOTE="Fortier"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="Litchie"][QUOTE="Jandurin"]Of course. God has no place in politics.
I should say: God should have no place in politics. Reality, unfortunately, follows different rules than ideal.
battlefront23
I agree.
I disagree
Would each of you care to justify your viewpoints?...
The simple answer that I know I'm gonna get flamed for... becasue man is flawed...
As is the Bible.
[QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="Fortier"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="Litchie"][QUOTE="Jandurin"]Of course. God has no place in politics.
I should say: God should have no place in politics. Reality, unfortunately, follows different rules than ideal.
JML897
I agree.
I disagree
Would each of you care to justify your viewpoints?...
The simple answer that I know I'm gonna get flamed for... becasue man is flawed...
As is the Bible.
I was arguing so much yesterday that I don't want to anymore but why do you think so?
I wouldn't even think about voting for an athiest.
Having no belief in God is a sign of deep confusion in my eyes. I'm not going to go into the reasoning for why that is, as that has to do with my personal beliefs.
People who have deep faith in religion have one thing in common. And that is they all are exemplary citizens. A person who believes in God would also seem to be more secure and morally-motivated. Religion does play a big part in a person's character. Which is why I'm not a believer in the "Religion should stay out of politics..." thing.
Another reason for not voting for an athiest is the the guilt feeling I'd get from doing so. I'd feel like I did the wrong thing in supporting someone like that.
redban2
Go tell that to your priest and see if he touches your shoulder. There are so damn many people out there that use god and faith as a cover for their wrong doings.. i'm atheist and have better morals than many that go to church every sunday.. i'm talking morals as in having to do with honesty, cheating, stealing, etc.
A persons belief in the existence or non-existence of Gods has no bearing on their ability to lead.
Is there really something special about people who believe in Jehovah/YHWH/Allah, Brahma, Odin, Set, the Thunderbird or even John Frum? No, at least no more than any one individuals similar lack of belief in them.
not an atheist. maybe a person who was agnostic MichaeltheCMAn agnostic is merely someone who believes that the existence of ____ cannot be humanely proved nor disproved. Given that you are probably using it in reference to the Christian deity, this can apply to both an atheist and a theist, among others.
I was arguing so much yesterday that I don't want to anymore but why do you think so?
battlefront23
For example, saying things like "Thou Shalt Not Kill" -- and then come back and say God killed a bunch of people with a flood. Not just that, there are many instances in the Bible that say "God has killed people" for one reason or another. And then there's the part I referenced earlier, where parents can stone to death their disobedient children. How can you say that it's not okay to kill, but then come back and say you can kill under some conditions? And that even God has killed?
I'm fine with Christians in general. But, the Bible has a lot of contradictions. Man is flawed, the Bible is flawed, everything is flawed.
[QUOTE="battlefront23"]I was arguing so much yesterday that I don't want to anymore but why do you think so?
JML897
For example, saying things like "Thou Shalt Not Kill" -- and then come back and say God killed a bunch of people with a flood. Not just that, there are many instances in the Bible that say "God has killed people" for one reason or another. And then there's the part I referenced earlier, where parents can stone to death their disobedient children. How can you say that it's not okay to kill, but then come back and say you can kill under some conditions? And that even God has killed?
I'm fine with Christians in general. But, the Bible has a lot of contradictions. Man is flawed, the Bible is flawed, everything is flawed.
But let me ask you this: do you think YOUR views are flawed?
in the UK any priminister must not let god etc get involved in political polocies and he isnt aloud to actually be part of a church or be a registered member of any religion. its a system that works i personally would not vote for a dumba**(bush) or a christian because there believe have effect on there polocies.muff07Tony Blair was an open Christian, and even said this influenced his decision to help invade Iraq. So that's your theory out the window :|
So believing in god makes you a great citizen? What about the crusades, or the IRA nearly blowing Margaret Thatcher up, or terrorist suicide bombers? Morals are by no means hand-in-hand with religion, and are definitely not exclusive to religious people.I wouldn't even think about voting for an athiest.
Having no belief in God is a sign of deep confusion in my eyes. I'm not going to go into the reasoning for why that is, as that has to do with my personal beliefs.
People who have deep faith in religion have one thing in common. And that is they all are exemplary citizens. A person who believes in God would also seem to be more secure and morally-motivated. Religion does play a big part in a person's character. Which is why I'm not a believer in the "Religion should stay out of politics..." thing.
Another reason for not voting for an athiest is the the guilt feeling I'd get from doing so. I'd feel like I did the wrong thing in supporting someone like that.
redban2
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I can't answer that.....since coming to OT I've gotten an unfavorable opinion of atheists. While I know not all individuals in a group are similiar...it gives me pause now.helium_flashSame thing happened to me, except for Brits. Wait...what? I can't work out if you just said something positive or negative about me :?
[QUOTE="helium_flash"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I can't answer that.....since coming to OT I've gotten an unfavorable opinion of atheists. While I know not all individuals in a group are similiar...it gives me pause now.Bourbons3Same thing happened to me, except for Brits. Wait...what? I can't work out if you just said something positive or negative about me :?His just saying that most of the British individuals he met were unkind to him.
[QUOTE="Bourbons3"][QUOTE="helium_flash"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I can't answer that.....since coming to OT I've gotten an unfavorable opinion of atheists. While I know not all individuals in a group are similiar...it gives me pause now.greenprinceSame thing happened to me, except for Brits. Wait...what? I can't work out if you just said something positive or negative about me :?His just saying that most of the British individuals he met were unkind to him. Oh noes :(
[QUOTE="battlefront23"]But let me ask you this: do you think YOUR views are flawed?
JML897
Nobody's perfect. I'm sure some of my opinions can be disputed well.
But anyone who thinks the Bible isn't full of contradictions, is fooling themselves.
can you tell me these contradictions?
[QUOTE="JML897"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]But let me ask you this: do you think YOUR views are flawed?
battlefront23
Nobody's perfect. I'm sure some of my opinions can be disputed well.
But anyone who thinks the Bible isn't full of contradictions, is fooling themselves.
can you tell me these contradictions?
Are you serious? Why do you think the Christians wrote the New Testament? The original was not good enough for them. Do you actually believe everything that is written in the bible?
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