Woman could face 3 years jail time - is this unjust

This topic is locked from further discussion.

Posted by whipassmt (14399 posts) 8 months, 13 days ago

Poll: Woman could face 3 years jail time - is this unjust (18 votes)

Yes 61%
No 17%
Fine for a NJ resident, but they should be more lenient with someone from out of state 22%

Pennsylvania Resident Shaneen Allen could face up to 3 and a half years in prison or maybe even more (there seems to be some disparity within the article) for what seems like a relatively minor offense, if it was even an offense at all. Allen was pulled over in October 2013, in New Jersey for an "unsafe lane-change". When the officer pulled her over, she told him that she had a concealed weapon and showed him her Pennsylvania carry-license. Unfortunately for her New Jersey is one of 20 states that do not recognize Pennsylvania's firearm license. Allen was arrested and charged with crimes that could carry up to a decade of prison time if convicted. Allen had previously been robbed twice, which is what prompted her to get the gun and license in the first-place.

Critics have also pointed out that the same Judge and Prosecutor in Allen's case, have agreed to allow NFL player Ray Rice to enter a "first-time offenders" program and avoid any jail time after he knocked his wife out.

So what are your thoughts? Any "crime" that Allen would have committed is only technical, she didn't intend to do anything wrong.

I understand that states will have different laws relating to gun licenses, and may not always recognize every other state's licenses. But residents of one state shouldn't have to know all of the different regulations of every state and which states recognize their home state's license (though maybe state government's should post such information online). I think the Federal government should lay down some kind of law to avoid situations such as this; namely they should require states to temporarily recognize the licenses issued by other states when the license holder is in transit through the state (if they stay in the state for an extended period of time, than obviously they should have to comply with that state's law).

#1 Posted by thegerg (15894 posts) -

"Any "crime" that Allen would have committed is only technical"

What, exactly, is a "technical" crime?

#2 Posted by whipassmt (14399 posts) -

@thegerg said:

"Any "crime" that Allen would have committed is only technical"

What, exactly, is a "technical" crime?

It means she didn't really do anything wrong, she just did something which was technically against the law.

#3 Posted by thegerg (15894 posts) -

@whipassmt said:

@thegerg said:

"Any "crime" that Allen would have committed is only technical"

What, exactly, is a "technical" crime?

It means she didn't really do anything wrong, she just did something which was technically against the law.

That really depends on who you ask. I can guarantee you that there are plenty of people who would believe that carrying a concealed weapon without being properly licensed to do so is doing something wrong.

#4 Edited by airshocker (30893 posts) -

It's not a minor law. It's a pretty big deal carrying a firearm across state lines without having proper paperwork for it.

Prison may be unwarranted for a nonviolent crime, but there needs to be some punishment. Ignorance of the law isn't an excuse.

#5 Posted by chessmaster1989 (29714 posts) -

Kind of seems like it would have been better for the officer to inform her of the law and maybe give her a fine. 3 years of jail is ridiculous.

#6 Posted by comp_atkins (31924 posts) -

death penatly!

#7 Posted by lostrib (41975 posts) -

I doubt much will come from this

#8 Posted by ad1x2 (5789 posts) -

I feel bad for her, but she should have researched the conceal carry laws for any state she planned to go into. It is common sense with firearms since not all jurisdictions follow the same laws in that regard. It is almost like a Colorado resident who purchased legally bought pot and drove into Kansas, assuming that because they bought it where it is legal they should be let off even where it isn't legal to possess.

#9 Posted by ferrari2001 (17265 posts) -

@thegerg said:

@whipassmt said:

@thegerg said:

"Any "crime" that Allen would have committed is only technical"

What, exactly, is a "technical" crime?

It means she didn't really do anything wrong, she just did something which was technically against the law.

That really depends on who you ask. I can guarantee you that there are plenty of people who would believe that carrying a concealed weapon without being properly licensed to do so is doing something wrong.

She was properly licensed to do so though. New Jersey just doesn't recognize her conceal and carry permit. If she had been pulled over in Pennsylvania everything would have been acceptable and she would have been on her way.

#10 Posted by airshocker (30893 posts) -

@ferrari2001 said:

@thegerg said:

@whipassmt said:

@thegerg said:

"Any "crime" that Allen would have committed is only technical"

What, exactly, is a "technical" crime?

It means she didn't really do anything wrong, she just did something which was technically against the law.

That really depends on who you ask. I can guarantee you that there are plenty of people who would believe that carrying a concealed weapon without being properly licensed to do so is doing something wrong.

She was properly licensed to do so though. New Jersey just doesn't recognize her conceal and carry permit. If she had been pulled over in Pennsylvania everything would have been acceptable and she would have been on her way.

She wasn't properly licensed in New Jersey, though. Some states don't accept concealed carry permits from others. It's not like drivers licenses which are recognized by all other states.

#11 Posted by fueled-system (6329 posts) -

It is her fault for not checking with that state before traveling with a concealed weapon

#12 Posted by SUD123456 (4533 posts) -

Pulled over for a minor traffic offense... blurts out that she is concealed packing. Deserves 3 yrs for being a moron.

#13 Edited by thegerg (15894 posts) -

@ferrari2001: No, she was not properly licensed to carry that weapon in that way.

#14 Posted by mingmao3046 (2648 posts) -

@SUD123456 said:

Pulled over for a minor traffic offense... blurts out that she is concealed packing. Deserves 3 yrs for being a moron.

That is what you are supposed to do by law

#15 Posted by SUD123456 (4533 posts) -

@mingmao3046 said:

@SUD123456 said:

Pulled over for a minor traffic offense... blurts out that she is concealed packing. Deserves 3 yrs for being a moron.

That is what you are supposed to do by law

You are also supposed to change lanes safely, which she apparently had no problem ignoring.

#16 Posted by whipassmt (14399 posts) -

@SUD123456 said:

Pulled over for a minor traffic offense... blurts out that she is concealed packing. Deserves 3 yrs for being a moron.

She probably figured that if she didn't tell him about the gun, he might've found it anyway and then she would be in big trouble.

@airshocker said:

@ferrari2001 said:

@thegerg said:

@whipassmt said:

@thegerg said:

"Any "crime" that Allen would have committed is only technical"

What, exactly, is a "technical" crime?

It means she didn't really do anything wrong, she just did something which was technically against the law.

That really depends on who you ask. I can guarantee you that there are plenty of people who would believe that carrying a concealed weapon without being properly licensed to do so is doing something wrong.

She was properly licensed to do so though. New Jersey just doesn't recognize her conceal and carry permit. If she had been pulled over in Pennsylvania everything would have been acceptable and she would have been on her way.

She wasn't properly licensed in New Jersey, though. Some states don't accept concealed carry permits from others. It's not like drivers licenses which are recognized by all other states.

It would be a big hassle if states didn't recognize driver's licenses from other states. I think they only do so temporarily. I think when I was going for my driver's license, I read at the DMV that Connecticut requires non-state residents to get a CT driver's license if they have been living in the state for more than six months.

#17 Posted by whipassmt (14399 posts) -

If he could, Chris Christie should pardon her if she gets convicted.

#18 Edited by ad1x2 (5789 posts) -

@SUD123456 said:

@mingmao3046 said:

@SUD123456 said:

Pulled over for a minor traffic offense... blurts out that she is concealed packing. Deserves 3 yrs for being a moron.

That is what you are supposed to do by law

You are also supposed to change lanes safely, which she apparently had no problem ignoring.

Just because you are willing to break one minor law doesn't mean you are willing to break a more serious one. While someone may be willing to speed that doesn't mean they are willing to shoplift, for example.

#19 Edited by lamprey263 (25258 posts) -

The punishment does seem excessive, she bared no ill will, and there's no victim in this crime. It'd be a waste of money to put her in prison and place her kids in someone else's custody. But, three years is the mandatory minimum sentence here. But, there's discretion on the level of police and DA to pursue this course, and maybe reduce charges to a lesser crime more fitting of circumstances, but they've decided to go this route, and usually prosecutors like to stack the most time on a charge to force a plea, especially when it comes to black people.

#20 Posted by Emil_Fontz (597 posts) -

I think that it's clear at this point that we're living in a police state, which is on its way to becoming a fascist regime. We need a revolution.

#21 Edited by SUD123456 (4533 posts) -

@ad1x2 said:

@SUD123456 said:

@mingmao3046 said:

@SUD123456 said:

Pulled over for a minor traffic offense... blurts out that she is concealed packing. Deserves 3 yrs for being a moron.

That is what you are supposed to do by law

You are also supposed to change lanes safely, which she apparently had no problem ignoring.

Just because you are willing to break one minor law doesn't mean you are willing to break a more serious one. While someone may be willing to speed that doesn't mean they are willing to shoplift, for example.

You don't say. In other words, willingness to break rules is based on individual tolerance of where the line is drawn.

Consequently, I find the blanket statement that 'that is what you are supposed to do by law' to be lame and she deserves 3 yrs for being a moron.

And just in case you haven't figured it out, she 'deserves 3 yrs for being a moron' is a sarcastic overstatement.

#22 Posted by whipassmt (14399 posts) -

@lamprey263 said:

The punishment does seem excessive, she bared no ill will, and there's no victim in this crime. It'd be a waste of money to put her in prison and place her kids in someone else's custody. But, three years is the mandatory minimum sentence here. But, there's discretion on the level of police and DA to pursue this course, and maybe reduce charges to a lesser crime more fitting of circumstances, but they've decided to go this route, and usually prosecutors like to stack the most time on a charge to force a plea, especially when it comes to black people.

Yeah. It's basically an issue of the laws in her home state being a bit different than the laws in the state she was pulled over in. I don't really fault the cop for arresting her though, he wouldn't be able to know whether or not she intended to do anything with the gun and if she did later commit a crime with the gun, he could feel responsible or get in trouble. I'm leaning to putting most of the blame on the prosecutor.

#23 Posted by foxhound_fox (90540 posts) -

"When the officer pulled her over, she told him that she had a concealed weapon and showed him her Pennsylvania carry-license. Unfortunately for her New Jersey is one of 20 states that do not recognize Pennsylvania's firearm license."

She broke the local law. Firearms laws in the US are different in every state. She should have done more research and left the gun at home.

This is totally justified. She would have been better off saying nothing and accepting the ticket graciously.

#24 Posted by Jacanuk (5550 posts) -

When has ignorance ever become an excuse for a crime?

This woman as a gun owner should be aware that not all states have the same laws and taken the right steps to either leave it or carry it in what ever that state says a gun should be in.

But with that said it is kinda stupid , she has a permit and if this is her first time it should just be written down as a fine and she should have been let go.

#25 Posted by ferrari2001 (17265 posts) -

@airshocker said:

@ferrari2001 said:

@thegerg said:

@whipassmt said:

@thegerg said:

"Any "crime" that Allen would have committed is only technical"

What, exactly, is a "technical" crime?

It means she didn't really do anything wrong, she just did something which was technically against the law.

That really depends on who you ask. I can guarantee you that there are plenty of people who would believe that carrying a concealed weapon without being properly licensed to do so is doing something wrong.

She was properly licensed to do so though. New Jersey just doesn't recognize her conceal and carry permit. If she had been pulled over in Pennsylvania everything would have been acceptable and she would have been on her way.

She wasn't properly licensed in New Jersey, though. Some states don't accept concealed carry permits from others. It's not like drivers licenses which are recognized by all other states.

What is the difference between a conceal and carry from Penn. and a conceal and carry from NJ. From what I understand both require you to take a safety course and to understand basic gun mechanics. The only thing stopping her from being properly licensed is the state saying that they fail to recognize her license. She most likely achieved every other requirement, besides of course paying taxes to NJ to get her conceal and carry permit from NJ.

#26 Posted by SaintLeonidas (26733 posts) -

Why the hell did she tell the officer she had the gun? "Unsafe lane change" would have warranted what, at worse a ticket? She should have just kept her mouth shut. IF the officer for what ever reason wanted to search her car (which unless he had lawful reason he probably couldn't anyway) THEN she should have told him, because he probably would have asked if she had any weapons, etc. in the car. Stupidity across the board on her part.

#27 Posted by gamerguru100 (11083 posts) -

@chessmaster1989 said:

Kind of seems like it would have been better for the officer to inform her of the law and maybe give her a fine. 3 years of jail is ridiculous.

This.

#28 Edited by gamerguru100 (11083 posts) -

@SaintLeonidas said:

Why the hell did she tell the officer she had the gun? "Unsafe lane change" would have warranted what, at worse a ticket? She should have just kept her mouth shut. IF the officer for what ever reason wanted to search her car (which unless he had lawful reason he probably couldn't anyway) THEN she should have told him, because he probably would have asked if she had any weapons, etc. in the car. Stupidity across the board on her part.

This is a good point, but I still think three years in prison is stupid for this. If she does get time, I think I'll go ahead and agree with Blu Ra-I mean Emil's comment.

#29 Posted by chaoscougar1 (36985 posts) -

@SUD123456 said:

@mingmao3046 said:

@SUD123456 said:

Pulled over for a minor traffic offense... blurts out that she is concealed packing. Deserves 3 yrs for being a moron.

That is what you are supposed to do by law

You are also supposed to change lanes safely, which she apparently had no problem ignoring.

lol

#30 Edited by toast_burner (22515 posts) -

Since when was violating gun regulation a minor crime? sounds pretty serious to me.

#31 Posted by sSubZerOo (43899 posts) -

Honestly based on some of the sh!t that these police and judges slide, I would rather they just fined her and confiscated the weapon in which she would have it delivered to her residence at a later time.. If she has no past record of any kind of crime, this is trivial.. The United States imprisons more people than any other country in the fvcking world, imprisoning her for 3 years isn't going to change anything.. But hey this is the United States, if she were rich she would have gotten off with a slapped wrist.. Just like that fvcking billionaire who admitted to sexual assaulting his 12 year old step daughter over a dozen times only getting 4 months in a jail.

#32 Posted by darkmark91 (2912 posts) -

@toast_burner said:

Since when was violating gun regulation a minor crime? sounds pretty serious to me.

All because she didn't have a piece of paper that said she was allowed a gun? She did have that paper from a different State though. What is so magical about this silly piece of paper? Will it prevent her from killing people?

She was also driving with a card from a different State, should she get more jail time for driving without a NJ card?

#33 Posted by toast_burner (22515 posts) -

@darkmark91 said:

@toast_burner said:

Since when was violating gun regulation a minor crime? sounds pretty serious to me.

All because she didn't have a piece of paper that said she was allowed a gun? She did have that paper from a different State though. What is so magical about this silly piece of paper? Will it prevent her from killing people?

She was also driving with a card from a different State, should she get more jail time for driving without a NJ card?

And a driving licence is just a piece of plastic. Should we allow people to drive without a licence?

#34 Posted by HoolaHoopMan (7877 posts) -

@airshocker said:

It's not a minor law. It's a pretty big deal carrying a firearm across state lines without having proper paperwork for it.

Prison may be unwarranted for a nonviolent crime, but there needs to be some punishment. Ignorance of the law isn't an excuse.

This seems about right.

#35 Posted by darkmark91 (2912 posts) -

@toast_burner said:

@darkmark91 said:

@toast_burner said:

Since when was violating gun regulation a minor crime? sounds pretty serious to me.

All because she didn't have a piece of paper that said she was allowed a gun? She did have that paper from a different State though. What is so magical about this silly piece of paper? Will it prevent her from killing people?

She was also driving with a card from a different State, should she get more jail time for driving without a NJ card?

And a driving licence is just a piece of plastic. Should we allow people to drive without a licence?

Go to a third world nation and ask a driver if they have a licence. You'll find someone pretty quick without one, and they probably drive better than you, considering their roads are crap.

For all you people saying ignorance of the law isn't an excuse. Well, lets all take a look at this site http://www.dumblaws.com/

Pick a few different States and tell me how many of their laws would have you broken?

#36 Edited by toast_burner (22515 posts) -

@darkmark91 said:

@toast_burner said:

@darkmark91 said:

@toast_burner said:

Since when was violating gun regulation a minor crime? sounds pretty serious to me.

All because she didn't have a piece of paper that said she was allowed a gun? She did have that paper from a different State though. What is so magical about this silly piece of paper? Will it prevent her from killing people?

She was also driving with a card from a different State, should she get more jail time for driving without a NJ card?

And a driving licence is just a piece of plastic. Should we allow people to drive without a licence?

Go to a third world nation and ask a driver if they have a licence. You'll find someone pretty quick without one, and they probably drive better than you, considering their roads are crap.

For all you people saying ignorance of the law isn't an excuse. Well, lets all take a look at this site http://www.dumblaws.com/

Pick a few different States and tell me how many of their laws would have you broken?

Those laws aren't enforced, you're really grabbing for straws.

#37 Posted by darkmark91 (2912 posts) -

@toast_burner said:

@darkmark91 said:

@toast_burner said:

@darkmark91 said:

@toast_burner said:

Since when was violating gun regulation a minor crime? sounds pretty serious to me.

All because she didn't have a piece of paper that said she was allowed a gun? She did have that paper from a different State though. What is so magical about this silly piece of paper? Will it prevent her from killing people?

She was also driving with a card from a different State, should she get more jail time for driving without a NJ card?

And a driving licence is just a piece of plastic. Should we allow people to drive without a licence?

Go to a third world nation and ask a driver if they have a licence. You'll find someone pretty quick without one, and they probably drive better than you, considering their roads are crap.

For all you people saying ignorance of the law isn't an excuse. Well, lets all take a look at this site http://www.dumblaws.com/

Pick a few different States and tell me how many of their laws would have you broken?

Those laws aren't enforced, you're really grabbing for straws.

Check this thread out

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/offtopic-discussion-314159273/woman-faces-30-days-jail-for-cussing-in-public-31500875/#65

So much for not being "enforced" eh?

#38 Posted by toast_burner (22515 posts) -

@darkmark91 said:

@toast_burner said:

@darkmark91 said:

@toast_burner said:

@darkmark91 said:

@toast_burner said:

Since when was violating gun regulation a minor crime? sounds pretty serious to me.

All because she didn't have a piece of paper that said she was allowed a gun? She did have that paper from a different State though. What is so magical about this silly piece of paper? Will it prevent her from killing people?

She was also driving with a card from a different State, should she get more jail time for driving without a NJ card?

And a driving licence is just a piece of plastic. Should we allow people to drive without a licence?

Go to a third world nation and ask a driver if they have a licence. You'll find someone pretty quick without one, and they probably drive better than you, considering their roads are crap.

For all you people saying ignorance of the law isn't an excuse. Well, lets all take a look at this site http://www.dumblaws.com/

Pick a few different States and tell me how many of their laws would have you broken?

Those laws aren't enforced, you're really grabbing for straws.

Check this thread out

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/offtopic-discussion-314159273/woman-faces-30-days-jail-for-cussing-in-public-31500875/#65

So much for not being "enforced" eh?

who ever said disorderly conduct was unenforced?

Is it really that hard for you to admit that you have no idea what you're talking about?

#39 Edited by darkmark91 (2912 posts) -

@toast_burner said:

@darkmark91 said:

@toast_burner said:

@darkmark91 said:

@toast_burner said:

And a driving licence is just a piece of plastic. Should we allow people to drive without a licence?

Go to a third world nation and ask a driver if they have a licence. You'll find someone pretty quick without one, and they probably drive better than you, considering their roads are crap.

For all you people saying ignorance of the law isn't an excuse. Well, lets all take a look at this site http://www.dumblaws.com/

Pick a few different States and tell me how many of their laws would have you broken?

Those laws aren't enforced, you're really grabbing for straws.

Check this thread out

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/offtopic-discussion-314159273/woman-faces-30-days-jail-for-cussing-in-public-31500875/#65

So much for not being "enforced" eh?

who ever said disorderly conduct was unenforced?

Is it really that hard for you to admit that you have no idea what you're talking about?

What she did was hardly disorderly... And I don't think you're getting the point I am trying to make here...

#40 Posted by thebest31406 (3555 posts) -

Is this unjust?

I think you've just answered your own question.

#41 Posted by whipassmt (14399 posts) -

@toast_burner said:

@darkmark91 said:

@toast_burner said:

Since when was violating gun regulation a minor crime? sounds pretty serious to me.

All because she didn't have a piece of paper that said she was allowed a gun? She did have that paper from a different State though. What is so magical about this silly piece of paper? Will it prevent her from killing people?

She was also driving with a card from a different State, should she get more jail time for driving without a NJ card?

And a driving licence is just a piece of plastic. Should we allow people to drive without a licence?

No, but a resident of one state shouldn't have to get a license in another state just to visit the state.

#42 Posted by l34052 (3299 posts) -

She should think herself lucky, if she was black she'd prob be dead now.

#44 Edited by slateman_basic (4033 posts) -

She is black

#45 Posted by Shottayouth13- (6854 posts) -

Jeez, a warning and a fine would have sufficed. 3 years is overkill.

#46 Edited by whipassmt (14399 posts) -

@toast_burner said:

Since when was violating gun regulation a minor crime? sounds pretty serious to me.

It's not like she shot someone or was in possession of a stolen weapon. It's just an issue of New Jersey not recognizing Pennsylvania's concealed carry permit.

#47 Edited by thegerg (15894 posts) -

@whipassmt: It's an issue of a woman unlawfully carrying a concealed weapon. It's not NJ's fault she was not licensed to carry.