Why you don't need God to be good!

[QUOTE="Ezgam3r"][QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="dsgeeno1"]

dont tel me "4.5 billion years of history. just the beginning

daftdog

Its approximately 4.5 billion years ago that we think the big bang happened

[QUOTE="Ezgam3r"][QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="dsgeeno1"]

dont tel me "4.5 billion years of history. just the beginning

Jandurin

Yeah life began 3.7 billion, but the planet started about 4.5 billion years ago. Please dont use wiki to find information on science its not credited.

Yeah life began 3.7 billion, but the planet started about 4.5 billion years ago. Please dont use wiki to find information on science its not credited.

daftdog

[QUOTE="Ezgam3r"][QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="dsgeeno1"]

dont tel me "4.5 billion years of history. just the beginning

Jandurin

[QUOTE="daftdog"]

Yeah life began 3.7 billion, but the planet started about 4.5 billion years ago. Please dont use wiki to find information on science its not credited.

Jandurin

I never said that but when it comes to science its important to get the information from a credited source especially if you are going to use the information in an debate.

I never said that but when it comes to science its important to get the information from a credited source especially if you are going to use the information in an debate.

daftdog

[QUOTE="daftdog"]

I never said that but when it comes to science its important to get the information from a credited source especially if you are going to use the information in an debate.

Jandurin

Whatever dude, all am saying is that the people that write up the information in wiki are not credited or reliable.

I hate the "well america has a lot of crime etc," arguement because you got to realise a lot of it is not from people who believe in god, more so just scum. For example we have lots of people coming from mexico, we also have a vaste melting pot, which makes it easier for race problems. We have so many religions, and different people, that it just like a cooking pot, the more you put in, the more it is going to eventually all boil.

There is also a lot of hypocrytes, also the thing with athiesm, is more likely satan is not going to tempt you that much, because he does not need to. He has you where he wants you.

I hate the "well america has a lot of crime etc," arguement because you got to realise a lot of it is not from people who believe in god, more so just scum. For example we have lots of people coming from mexico, we also have a vaste melting pot, which makes it easier for race problems. We have so many religions, and different people, that it just like a cooking pot, the more you put in, the more it is going to eventually all boil.

There is also a lot of hypocrytes, also the thing with athiesm, is more likely satan is not going to tempt you that much, because he does not need to. He has you where he wants you.

SegaGenesisfan

You just totally contradicted yourself its actually quite funny :)

[QUOTE="dsgeeno1"][QUOTE="daftdog"][QUOTE="dsgeeno1"][QUOTE="daftdog"][QUOTE="dsgeeno1"][QUOTE="Greatgone12"][QUOTE="dsgeeno1"]

why did jesus answer many questions from obvious non beleivers in questions?

Because you can only make someone beleive when they are ready to beleive/want to beleive.

In other words they have to convince themselves, simply telling them wont cut it.

Yes you can be good without "beleiving" in god. not "without god". Who really defines good?

why do people find it absurd to beleive in god, and fine to beleive in science, cos lets face it were not all scientists that have tested and "proved" these "THEORIES

daftdog

Scientific theories have inherently been tested and "proved."

My point exactly, you beleive they have been proved (keep in mind i'm not saying science is fake)

But you havent seen the results, you never designed the tests, you havent seen the proof, and in many cases you do not extensively understand the implications. How many times has scieonce called something true only until its been proven otherwise ( for instance it was beleived the world was flat and that flying was impossible nevermind space exploration)). You in other words beleive what your told without feeling the need to question or check for yourself ( This is faith)

so why is faith in relegion so obsurd?

We do question and check the results hence why we constantly discover new theories that dont match other peoples theories. Why do you put science down so much it has revolutionsed this planet, if it wasn't for science we would all be still living in mud huts hunting for wild animals. What has religion done?

daftdog how do you beleive you came to be?

I don't think you realise what a big question that is, you want me to narrate 4.5 billion years of history through to you? It could take me like 3 days just to give you the short story LOL!

dont tel me "4.5 billion years of history. just the beginning

You see this is what confirms to me you have no idea about the scientific side of the story. You say beginging as if it just happened, in science the begining lasted nearly 650 million years. The planet did'nt just appear over night with water, trees and grass evrywhere it was a process of millions of years! If you knew the scientific side you would know that what you are asking is a bit broad. This is the differrence between religious and non religious people i know all about religion and its history, because i bothered to hear both sides, religious people only care about their side.

doesnt evrything have a beginning? or does your scientific theory begin in the middle? i " only care about my side"? How when i'm asking you what your beleif is? I wasnt putting science down either, ( I like science, was my favorite class) just proving a point that your belef in science is not much different from my beleif in god.

[QUOTE="daftdog"][QUOTE="dsgeeno1"][QUOTE="daftdog"][QUOTE="dsgeeno1"][QUOTE="daftdog"][QUOTE="dsgeeno1"][QUOTE="Greatgone12"][QUOTE="dsgeeno1"]

why did jesus answer many questions from obvious non beleivers in questions?

Because you can only make someone beleive when they are ready to beleive/want to beleive.

In other words they have to convince themselves, simply telling them wont cut it.

Yes you can be good without "beleiving" in god. not "without god". Who really defines good?

why do people find it absurd to beleive in god, and fine to beleive in science, cos lets face it were not all scientists that have tested and "proved" these "THEORIES

dsgeeno1

Scientific theories have inherently been tested and "proved."

My point exactly, you beleive they have been proved (keep in mind i'm not saying science is fake)

But you havent seen the results, you never designed the tests, you havent seen the proof, and in many cases you do not extensively understand the implications. How many times has scieonce called something true only until its been proven otherwise ( for instance it was beleived the world was flat and that flying was impossible nevermind space exploration)). You in other words beleive what your told without feeling the need to question or check for yourself ( This is faith)

so why is faith in relegion so obsurd?

We do question and check the results hence why we constantly discover new theories that dont match other peoples theories. Why do you put science down so much it has revolutionsed this planet, if it wasn't for science we would all be still living in mud huts hunting for wild animals. What has religion done?

daftdog how do you beleive you came to be?

I don't think you realise what a big question that is, you want me to narrate 4.5 billion years of history through to you? It could take me like 3 days just to give you the short story LOL!

dont tel me "4.5 billion years of history. just the beginning

You see this is what confirms to me you have no idea about the scientific side of the story. You say beginging as if it just happened, in science the begining lasted nearly 650 million years. The planet did'nt just appear over night with water, trees and grass evrywhere it was a process of millions of years! If you knew the scientific side you would know that what you are asking is a bit broad. This is the differrence between religious and non religious people i know all about religion and its history, because i bothered to hear both sides, religious people only care about their side.

doesnt evrything have a beginning? or does your scientific theory begin in the middle? i " only care about my side"? How when i'm asking you what your beleif is? I wasnt putting science down either, ( I like science, was my favorite class) just proving a point that your belef in science is not much different from my beleif in god.

Ok then fine that's what you believe good for you.

[QUOTE="daftdog"][QUOTE="dsgeeno1"][QUOTE="daftdog"][QUOTE="dsgeeno1"][QUOTE="daftdog"][QUOTE="dsgeeno1"][QUOTE="Greatgone12"][QUOTE="dsgeeno1"]

why did jesus answer many questions from obvious non beleivers in questions?

Because you can only make someone beleive when they are ready to beleive/want to beleive.

In other words they have to convince themselves, simply telling them wont cut it.

Yes you can be good without "beleiving" in god. not "without god". Who really defines good?

why do people find it absurd to beleive in god, and fine to beleive in science, cos lets face it were not all scientists that have tested and "proved" these "THEORIES

dsgeeno1

Scientific theories have inherently been tested and "proved."

My point exactly, you beleive they have been proved (keep in mind i'm not saying science is fake)

But you havent seen the results, you never designed the tests, you havent seen the proof, and in many cases you do not extensively understand the implications. How many times has scieonce called something true only until its been proven otherwise ( for instance it was beleived the world was flat and that flying was impossible nevermind space exploration)). You in other words beleive what your told without feeling the need to question or check for yourself ( This is faith)

so why is faith in relegion so obsurd?

We do question and check the results hence why we constantly discover new theories that dont match other peoples theories. Why do you put science down so much it has revolutionsed this planet, if it wasn't for science we would all be still living in mud huts hunting for wild animals. What has religion done?

daftdog how do you beleive you came to be?

I don't think you realise what a big question that is, you want me to narrate 4.5 billion years of history through to you? It could take me like 3 days just to give you the short story LOL!

dont tel me "4.5 billion years of history. just the beginning

You see this is what confirms to me you have no idea about the scientific side of the story. You say beginging as if it just happened, in science the begining lasted nearly 650 million years. The planet did'nt just appear over night with water, trees and grass evrywhere it was a process of millions of years! If you knew the scientific side you would know that what you are asking is a bit broad. This is the differrence between religious and non religious people i know all about religion and its history, because i bothered to hear both sides, religious people only care about their side.

doesnt evrything have a beginning? or does your scientific theory begin in the middle? i " only care about my side"? How when i'm asking you what your beleif is? I wasnt putting science down either, ( I like science, was my favorite class) just proving a point that your belef in science is not much different from my beleif in god.

Our universe started with the Big Bang.

[QUOTE="SegaGenesisfan"]

I hate the "well america has a lot of crime etc," arguement because you got to realise a lot of it is not from people who believe in god, more so just scum. For example we have lots of people coming from mexico, we also have a vaste melting pot, which makes it easier for race problems. We have so many religions, and different people, that it just like a cooking pot, the more you put in, the more it is going to eventually all boil.

There is also a lot of hypocrytes, also the thing with athiesm, is more likely satan is not going to tempt you that much, because he does not need to. He has you where he wants you.

daftdog

You just totally contradicted yourself its actually quite funny :)

I see no contradiction actually and I usually disagree with Sega's points, but for once, he actually makes some sense besides associating atheism with Satanism.

*comic*

AnubisCraig

Is this true? :lol: I found it rather funny regardless.

As for my beliefs, I don't think you need a god to have direction, but I do think that it can be problematic if you focus too much on yourself. A good person serves others.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="daftdog"]

How so?

daftdog

Omniscience is a divine quality. ;)

How does that make us ironic?

:|

:lol:

Nevermind.

[QUOTE="daftdog"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="daftdog"]

How so?

Theokhoth

Omniscience is a divine quality. ;)

How does that make us ironic?

:|

:lol:

Nevermind.

I also don't see the irony. Care to enlighten me?

EDIT: Ooooh!

This all depends on your definition of being "good." If being "good" means not robbing or murdering, then the fear of jail time or execution might stop you. If being "good" means no cussing or sex before marriage, that is something that only the fear of God will keep you from doing, the Holy Spirit convicts you of sin. So what is your definition of being "good" here?

[QUOTE="dsgeeno1"][QUOTE="daftdog"][QUOTE="dsgeeno1"][QUOTE="daftdog"][QUOTE="dsgeeno1"][QUOTE="daftdog"][QUOTE="dsgeeno1"][QUOTE="Greatgone12"][QUOTE="dsgeeno1"]

why did jesus answer many questions from obvious non beleivers in questions?

Because you can only make someone beleive when they are ready to beleive/want to beleive.

In other words they have to convince themselves, simply telling them wont cut it.

Yes you can be good without "beleiving" in god. not "without god". Who really defines good?

why do people find it absurd to beleive in god, and fine to beleive in science, cos lets face it were not all scientists that have tested and "proved" these "THEORIES

AnubisCraig

Scientific theories have inherently been tested and "proved."

My point exactly, you beleive they have been proved (keep in mind i'm not saying science is fake)

But you havent seen the results, you never designed the tests, you havent seen the proof, and in many cases you do not extensively understand the implications. How many times has scieonce called something true only until its been proven otherwise ( for instance it was beleived the world was flat and that flying was impossible nevermind space exploration)). You in other words beleive what your told without feeling the need to question or check for yourself ( This is faith)

so why is faith in relegion so obsurd?

We do question and check the results hence why we constantly discover new theories that dont match other peoples theories. Why do you put science down so much it has revolutionsed this planet, if it wasn't for science we would all be still living in mud huts hunting for wild animals. What has religion done?

daftdog how do you beleive you came to be?

I don't think you realise what a big question that is, you want me to narrate 4.5 billion years of history through to you? It could take me like 3 days just to give you the short story LOL!

dont tel me "4.5 billion years of history. just the beginning

You see this is what confirms to me you have no idea about the scientific side of the story. You say beginging as if it just happened, in science the begining lasted nearly 650 million years. The planet did'nt just appear over night with water, trees and grass evrywhere it was a process of millions of years! If you knew the scientific side you would know that what you are asking is a bit broad. This is the differrence between religious and non religious people i know all about religion and its history, because i bothered to hear both sides, religious people only care about their side.

doesnt evrything have a beginning? or does your scientific theory begin in the middle? i " only care about my side"? How when i'm asking you what your beleif is? I wasnt putting science down either, ( I like science, was my favorite class) just proving a point that your belef in science is not much different from my beleif in god.

Our universe started with the Big Bang.

Big Bang THEORY...

Big Bang THEORY...LikeHaterade

I am good because of religion, but not because I'm afraid of going to hell, but just because I have felt the love of God and I know how powerful it is so now I want to share it with the world. I don't do immoral things not because I'm afraid of the concequences, but rather because I know there is a better way to live my life. I understand that sin is its own punishment and so I am not stupid enough to sin.

Big Bang THEORY...

LikeHaterade

Jesus H Christ, I'm going to kill the next person who does that.

[QUOTE="LikeHaterade"]

Big Bang THEORY...

Funky_Llama

Jesus H Christ, I'm going to kill the next person who does that.

Woah Funky's on fire! Now now funky, calm down......

Or all of us will just get some roasted llama

Or all of us will just get some roasted llama

MFaraz_Hayat

Why do people act as if evolution disproves creationism? The bible itself says a day to God is like a thousand years to man. I believe evolution was designed by God.

Anyway, on topic, sure you can be a good person without beliving in God, but you'll still die with your soul never reunited with God and suffer eternally. Religious debates never go anywhere and even though I could address every single question and debate, it's pretty much a waste of time, so I won't be coming back to the thread in case anyone responds. Especially since I would probably just end up getting modded by a biased moderator. It happened the last time I actually debated in a religious thread. I typed a long, drawn out post and got modded for the reason of "posting solely to annoy" even though my post was on topic and well worded. It's pretty frustrating to type all that and have it wiped by someone just because they disagree and want to silence you. Anyway, just wanted to get the truth out there about the topic. See ya! ;)

I do not know how moral I would be as a person if I did not do it all for that reason.mindstorm

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]I do not know how moral I would be as a person if I did not do it all for that reason.Jandurin

I'd imagine I wouldn't but I suppose I'll never know. Some things I refrain from doing only because of God however. Why would I quit looking at porn for example? Or why would I decide to not drink alcohol (not saying it's morally wrong to drink, I've just decided it's not something for me).

[QUOTE="SegaGenesisfan"]

I hate the "well america has a lot of crime etc," arguement because you got to realise a lot of it is not from people who believe in god, more so just scum. For example we have lots of people coming from mexico, we also have a vaste melting pot, which makes it easier for race problems. We have so many religions, and different people, that it just like a cooking pot, the more you put in, the more it is going to eventually all boil.

There is also a lot of hypocrytes, also the thing with athiesm, is more likely satan is not going to tempt you that much, because he does not need to. He has you where he wants you.

daftdog

You just totally contradicted yourself its actually quite funny :)

No, I didnt, I am just sayying that america may have more crime, because there is more factors that can lead to crime, lots of bad influences, then there are hypocrytes (poeple who say they believe in god, but dont follow), and lastly my comment about athiest seeming more "moral." Well if you where satan and your trying to get people into hell, all it takes is one sin, all athiest from Sweden have probably done one thing to violate gods rule (that is all it takes). Well so to get to heaven and be forgivened, you need to believe in god Now if your satan and there is people who dont believe god exist, well they are already on their way to the path of destruction, he already has you how he wants you, plus for all we knew satan purposely does not tempt athiest as much. Overall though a true christian is going to have a better sense of right and wrong, so maybe athiest over in Sweden don't do as many physical crimes, they are still commiting crimes against god.

You just totally misintrepreted me its actually quite funny, I knew you would do that:)

[QUOTE="DJ_Novakain"]I love how that a quote is treated as an indisputable fact or something. duncancameron23

I love how you guys treat God as a fact, different strokes for different folks i guess.

You, my friend, are VERY incorrect. I really need all of you to stop thinking that God is always there to punish you and put you in "Hell". If God was not here, humanity would not be nearly as civilized and educated as they are now. God and the prophets that were sent to educate us taugh us how to be civilized, educated people. You may not think of it, but humanity from a historical time were taught by the prophets to be good, and these messages have been passed down for generations unto us, and we have been raised from the base of history, which is what God intended. Human beings have been given the power of intellect to act with free will and be civilized, virtuous people. If we did not recieve this gift, and were not educated to use it, we would take the ways of the animal. Animals live for their own needs: eat, sleep, reproduce, etc. They can not be civilized and use their minds for the betterment of the world. We have recieved the ability to do this through God's messages, which have been provided through the many manifestations through history. Education consists of human, material, and spiritual education. If we do not use these together, we will take the ways of an animal. And don't think that some of you do not use spiritual education, because you all do. Every time you show love, respect, comassion, etc. for one another, you are using your spirituality. Without God and the messages sent to us to become civilized, we could not achieve this level of education and civilization. I rest my case.amirbrandon

You 'rest your case'? Dude, you didn't prove anything! All you did was blindly assert. Also... if without religion people 'take the ways of the animal', why haven't I done so?

I ask again, good by whose standards?Strider212

I think objective morality is being assumed.

[QUOTE="amirbrandon"]You, my friend, are VERY incorrect. I really need all of you to stop thinking that God is always there to punish you and put you in "Hell". If God was not here, humanity would not be nearly as civilized and educated as they are now. God and the prophets that were sent to educate us taugh us how to be civilized, educated people. You may not think of it, but humanity from a historical time were taught by the prophets to be good, and these messages have been passed down for generations unto us, and we have been raised from the base of history, which is what God intended. Human beings have been given the power of intellect to act with free will and be civilized, virtuous people. If we did not recieve this gift, and were not educated to use it, we would take the ways of the animal. Animals live for their own needs: eat, sleep, reproduce, etc. They can not be civilized and use their minds for the betterment of the world. We have recieved the ability to do this through God's messages, which have been provided through the many manifestations through history. Education consists of human, material, and spiritual education. If we do not use these together, we will take the ways of an animal. And don't think that some of you do not use spiritual education, because you all do. Every time you show love, respect, comassion, etc. for one another, you are using your spirituality. Without God and the messages sent to us to become civilized, we could not achieve this level of education and civilization. I rest my case.Funky_Llama

You 'rest your case'? Dude, you didn't prove anything! All you did was blindly assert. Also... if without religion people 'take the ways of the animal', why haven't I done so?

Yes, you do not follow religion, but you use its principles in your life. You have been raised to be a civilized person through the teachings of religion throughout history. you may not believe so, but this is where our ability to use our intellect and become civilized came from.