Why you don't need God to be good!

I love how that a quote is treated as an indisputable fact or something. DJ_Novakain

I love how you guys treat God as a fact, different strokes for different folks i guess.

[QUOTE="duncancameron23"]

[QUOTE="DJ_Novakain"]I love how that a quote is treated as an indisputable fact or something. DJ_Novakain

I love how you guys treat God as a fact, different strokes for different folks i guess.

I thought it was a convincing argument rather than fact, and if you're agnostic whats the point of your post ?(It makes you sound either A religious or B just annoying)

Einstien said "If people are good only because they fear punishment and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed"

Micheal Shermer, in "The Science of Good and Evil" calls it a debate stopper. If you agree that, in the absence of God, you would "commit robbery, rape and murder", you reveal yourself as an immoral person. If on the other hand, you admit that you would continue to be a good person even when not under devine surveillance, you have fatally undermined your claim that God is necessary for us to be good.
duncancameron23

Quoting Shermer should be a debate stopper, too. Isn't that the book where he argues 9/11 terrorists were brave men? Sickening.

Anyway, it's possible for an individual to be moral without God, but only in a society where God isn't completely ignored. If I rejected God today, my actions would still be affected by our Judeo-Christian laws. The question, then, isn't whether one person can be moral without a belief on God, but whether a whole society can do so. That's why it's essential that we don't cast out God from public life. Allow prayer in schools. Display those Ten Commandments in courthouses. Our survival depends on it.

[QUOTE="DJ_Novakain"][QUOTE="duncancameron23"]

[QUOTE="DJ_Novakain"]I love how that a quote is treated as an indisputable fact or something. duncancameron23

I love how you guys treat God as a fact, different strokes for different folks i guess.

I thought it was a convincing argument rather than fact, and if you're agnostic whats the point of your post ?(It makes you sound either A religious or B just annoying)

I hate these religious threads. :( God dont exist end of! Next thread please!

[QUOTE="duncancameron23"]Einstien said "If people are good only because they fear punishment and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed"

Micheal Shermer, in "The Science of Good and Evil" calls it a debate stopper. If you agree that, in the absence of God, you would "commit robbery, rape and murder", you reveal yourself as an immoral person. If on the other hand, you admit that you would continue to be a good person even when not under devine surveillance, you have fatally undermined your claim that God is necessary for us to be good.
mysterylobster

Quoting Shermer should be a debate stopper, too. Isn't that the book where he argues 9/11 terrorists were brave men? Sickening.

Anyway, it's possible for an individual to be moral without God, but only in a society where God isn't completely ignored. If I rejected God today, my actions would still be affected by our Judeo-Christian laws. The question, then, isn't whether one person can be moral without a belief on God, but whether a whole society can do so. That's why it's essential that we don't cast out God from public life. Allow prayer in schools. Display those Ten Commandments in courthouses. Our survival depends on it.

No it doesn't, as for Shermer i was unaware he said that but i'm not interested in him (and completely disagree with him on the terrorists views if that's what he said) i'm interested more in the argument.

As for the bible being a moral code i just don't believe it, you have stuff like "Lot" being saved by God from the destruction of Sodom only then to be got drunk by his daughters so they could have sex with him because of not getting enough man action! (Genesis 19: 31-6)

Compassion and morals would and have evolved without the need of God by trade, community, and education etc

I don't think it does entail that you are an immoral person if you didn't believe in God you would do...blah blah blah. But I'm tired of all these religious threads anyway so I won't go any further. redfield_137

You might have misunderstood. I think what the quote was about was that if there was no God to judge our actions and thoughts, then the people who choose to do things like rape and kill etc. would be shown to be evil/immoral because there would be no post-life consequence. It's not about whether believeing in God or not decides whether you're good or evil, that makes no sense.

And those terrorists were probably seen as brave by their own people, not that i'm condoning it but you get it. I dunno anything about the guy quoted.

[QUOTE="duncancameron23"]Einstien said "If people are good only because they fear punishment and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed"

Micheal Shermer, in "The Science of Good and Evil" calls it a debate stopper. If you agree that, in the absence of God, you would "commit robbery, rape and murder", you reveal yourself as an immoral person. If on the other hand, you admit that you would continue to be a good person even when not under devine surveillance, you have fatally undermined your claim that God is necessary for us to be good.
mysterylobster

Quoting Shermer should be a debate stopper, too. Isn't that the book where he argues 9/11 terrorists were brave men? Sickening.

Anyway, it's possible for an individual to be moral without God, but only in a society where God isn't completely ignored. If I rejected God today, my actions would still be affected by our Judeo-Christian laws. The question, then, isn't whether one person can be moral without a belief on God, but whether a whole society can do so. That's why it's essential that we don't cast out God from public life. Allow prayer in schools. Display those Ten Commandments in courthouses. Our survival depends on it.

Anyway, it's possible for an individual to be moral without God, but only in a society where God isn't completely ignored. If I rejected God today, my actions would still be affected by our Judeo-Christian laws. The question, then, isn't whether one person can be moral without a belief on God, but whether a whole society can do so. That's why it's essential that we don't cast out God from public life. Allow prayer in schools. Display those Ten Commandments in courthouses. Our survival depends on it. mysterylobster

I would suggest that you should try to aquire some knowledge in the field of population biology.

I hate these religious threads. :( God dont exist end of! Next thread please!

daftdog

Too bad I saw him yesterday at 5 in the mourning,the ultimate proof for me.That was my second time seeing him.

Whilst I agree with you your point of view your arguement is very flawed. Quoting these wise old guys is not an arguement. Come up with some points and argue out yourself. Don't let Einstein do it for you.felixlynch777

Why? they said it better than me and the argument still stands.

It is a good argument.

[QUOTE="felixlynch777"]Whilst I agree with you your point of view your arguement is very flawed. Quoting these wise old guys is not an arguement. Come up with some points and argue out yourself. Don't let Einstein do it for you.duncancameron23

Why? they said it better than me and the argument still stands.

[QUOTE="duncancameron23"]

[QUOTE="felixlynch777"]Whilst I agree with you your point of view your arguement is very flawed. Quoting these wise old guys is not an arguement. Come up with some points and argue out yourself. Don't let Einstein do it for you.DJ_Novakain

Why? they said it better than me and the argument still stands.

I don't think he's letting Einstein speak for him. He merely agrees strong;y with Einstein's argument, and feels that Einstgein presented this more eloquently than he could himself. I don't think there's anything wrong with quoting Einstein in this context.

[QUOTE="duncancameron23"]

[QUOTE="felixlynch777"]Whilst I agree with you your point of view your arguement is very flawed. Quoting these wise old guys is not an arguement. Come up with some points and argue out yourself. Don't let Einstein do it for you.DJ_Novakain

Why? they said it better than me and the argument still stands.

Are you sure your not religious? i smell a rat!

Fact: If I did not believe in God, I would still believe in doing the right thing.

Fact: What I consider to be "the right thing" would change if I did not believe in God.

Therefore: My morals would change and some people would find me immoral.

It's quite simple.

To save from childish taunting along the lines of "Nah, your theory falls apart cause there is no God" crap. Maybe they should update it to Police.

No doubt the kind of people that come in here to state God doesn't exist would happily contribute to a completely impossible hypothetical situtation but the thought of a God? Gotta point out the flaws in other peoples beliefs to make yourself feel better!

To save from childish taunting along the lines of "Nah, your theory falls apart cause there is no God" crap. Maybe they should update it to Police.

No doubt the kind of people that come in here to state God doesn't exist would happily contribute to a completely impossible hypothetical situtation but the thought of a God? Gotta point out the flaws in other peoples beliefs to make yourself feel better!

Apollo5000

People who go "God doesn't exist" in topics like this are the most ironic people in the universe.

Hmm...

While I think that you do not need to believe in God to be a moral person , I do not agree with your reasoning.

why did jesus answer many questions from obvious non beleivers in questions?

Because you can only make someone beleive when they are ready to beleive/want to beleive.

In other words they have to convince themselves, simply telling them wont cut it.

Yes you can be good without "beleiving" in god. not "without god". Who really defines good?

why do people find it absurd to beleive in god, and fine to beleive in science, cos lets face it were not all scientists that have tested and "proved" these "THEORIES

why did jesus answer many questions from obvious non beleivers in questions?

Because you can only make someone beleive when they are ready to beleive/want to beleive.

In other words they have to convince themselves, simply telling them wont cut it.

Yes you can be good without "beleiving" in god. not "without god". Who really defines good?

why do people find it absurd to beleive in god, and fine to beleive in science, cos lets face it were not all scientists that have tested and "proved" these "THEORIES

dsgeeno1

Scientific theories have inherently been tested and "proved."

[QUOTE="Apollo5000"]

To save from childish taunting along the lines of "Nah, your theory falls apart cause there is no God" crap. Maybe they should update it to Police.

No doubt the kind of people that come in here to state God doesn't exist would happily contribute to a completely impossible hypothetical situtation but the thought of a God? Gotta point out the flaws in other peoples beliefs to make yourself feel better!

Theokhoth

People who go "God doesn't exist" in topics like this are the most ironic people in the universe.

How so?

How so?

daftdog

Omniscience is a divine quality. ;)

[QUOTE="daftdog"]

How so?

Theokhoth

Omniscience is a divine quality. ;)

How does that make us ironic?

[QUOTE="dsgeeno1"]

why did jesus answer many questions from obvious non beleivers in questions?

Because you can only make someone beleive when they are ready to beleive/want to beleive.

In other words they have to convince themselves, simply telling them wont cut it.

Yes you can be good without "beleiving" in god. not "without god". Who really defines good?

why do people find it absurd to beleive in god, and fine to beleive in science, cos lets face it were not all scientists that have tested and "proved" these "THEORIES

Greatgone12

Scientific theories have inherently been tested and "proved."

My point exactly, you beleive they have been proved (keep in mind i'm not saying science is fake)

But you havent seen the results, you never designed the tests, you havent seen the proof, and in many cases you do not extensively understand the implications. How many times has scieonce called something true only until its been proven otherwise ( for instance it was beleived the world was flat and that flying was impossible nevermind space exploration)). You in other words beleive what your told without feeling the need to question or check for yourself ( This is faith)

so why is faith in relegion so obsurd?

If I rejected God today, my actions would still be affected by our Judeo-Christian laws. [...] Display those Ten Commandments in courthouses.mysterylobster

[QUOTE="Greatgone12"][QUOTE="dsgeeno1"]

why did jesus answer many questions from obvious non beleivers in questions?

Because you can only make someone beleive when they are ready to beleive/want to beleive.

In other words they have to convince themselves, simply telling them wont cut it.

Yes you can be good without "beleiving" in god. not "without god". Who really defines good?

why do people find it absurd to beleive in god, and fine to beleive in science, cos lets face it were not all scientists that have tested and "proved" these "THEORIES

dsgeeno1

Scientific theories have inherently been tested and "proved."

My point exactly, you beleive they have been proved (keep in mind i'm not saying science is fake)

But you havent seen the results, you never designed the tests, you havent seen the proof, and in many cases you do not extensively understand the implications. How many times has scieonce called something true only until its been proven otherwise ( for instance it was beleived the world was flat and that flying was impossible nevermind space exploration)). You in other words beleive what your told without feeling the need to question or check for yourself ( This is faith)

so why is faith in relegion so obsurd?

We do question and check the results hence why we constantly discover new theories that dont match other peoples theories. Why do you put science down so much it has revolutionsed this planet, if it wasn't for science we would all be still living in mud huts hunting for wild animals. What has religion done?

But you havent seen the results, you never designed the tests, you havent seen the proof, and in many cases you do not extensively understand the implications. How many times has scieonce called something true only until its been proven otherwise ( for instance it was beleived the world was flat and that flying was impossible nevermind space exploration)). You in other words beleive what your told without feeling the need to question or check for yourself ( This is faith) so why is faith in relegion so obsurd?

[QUOTE="dsgeeno1"][QUOTE="Greatgone12"][QUOTE="dsgeeno1"]

why did jesus answer many questions from obvious non beleivers in questions?

Because you can only make someone beleive when they are ready to beleive/want to beleive.

In other words they have to convince themselves, simply telling them wont cut it.

Yes you can be good without "beleiving" in god. not "without god". Who really defines good?

why do people find it absurd to beleive in god, and fine to beleive in science, cos lets face it were not all scientists that have tested and "proved" these "THEORIES

daftdog

Scientific theories have inherently been tested and "proved."

My point exactly, you beleive they have been proved (keep in mind i'm not saying science is fake)

But you havent seen the results, you never designed the tests, you havent seen the proof, and in many cases you do not extensively understand the implications. How many times has scieonce called something true only until its been proven otherwise ( for instance it was beleived the world was flat and that flying was impossible nevermind space exploration)). You in other words beleive what your told without feeling the need to question or check for yourself ( This is faith)

so why is faith in relegion so obsurd?

We do question and check the results hence why we constantly discover new theories that dont match other peoples theories. Why do you put science down so much it has revolutionsed this planet, if it wasn't for science we would all be still living in mud huts hunting for wild animals. What has religion done?

daftdog how do you beleive you came to be?

daftdog how do you beleive you came to be?

dsgeeno1

[QUOTE="dsgeeno1"]

daftdog how do you beleive you came to be?

Jandurin

funny.. ok i'l rephrase that, how do you think life came to be and why?

[QUOTE="daftdog"][QUOTE="dsgeeno1"][QUOTE="Greatgone12"][QUOTE="dsgeeno1"]

why did jesus answer many questions from obvious non beleivers in questions?

Because you can only make someone beleive when they are ready to beleive/want to beleive.

In other words they have to convince themselves, simply telling them wont cut it.

Yes you can be good without "beleiving" in god. not "without god". Who really defines good?

why do people find it absurd to beleive in god, and fine to beleive in science, cos lets face it were not all scientists that have tested and "proved" these "THEORIES

dsgeeno1

Scientific theories have inherently been tested and "proved."

My point exactly, you beleive they have been proved (keep in mind i'm not saying science is fake)

But you havent seen the results, you never designed the tests, you havent seen the proof, and in many cases you do not extensively understand the implications. How many times has scieonce called something true only until its been proven otherwise ( for instance it was beleived the world was flat and that flying was impossible nevermind space exploration)). You in other words beleive what your told without feeling the need to question or check for yourself ( This is faith)

so why is faith in relegion so obsurd?

We do question and check the results hence why we constantly discover new theories that dont match other peoples theories. Why do you put science down so much it has revolutionsed this planet, if it wasn't for science we would all be still living in mud huts hunting for wild animals. What has religion done?

daftdog how do you beleive you came to be?

I don't think you realise what a big question that is, you want me to narrate 4.5 billion years of history through to you? It could take me like 3 days just to give you the short story LOL!

[QUOTE="dsgeeno1"][QUOTE="daftdog"][QUOTE="dsgeeno1"][QUOTE="Greatgone12"][QUOTE="dsgeeno1"]

why did jesus answer many questions from obvious non beleivers in questions?

Because you can only make someone beleive when they are ready to beleive/want to beleive.

In other words they have to convince themselves, simply telling them wont cut it.

Yes you can be good without "beleiving" in god. not "without god". Who really defines good?

why do people find it absurd to beleive in god, and fine to beleive in science, cos lets face it were not all scientists that have tested and "proved" these "THEORIES

daftdog

Scientific theories have inherently been tested and "proved."

My point exactly, you beleive they have been proved (keep in mind i'm not saying science is fake)

But you havent seen the results, you never designed the tests, you havent seen the proof, and in many cases you do not extensively understand the implications. How many times has scieonce called something true only until its been proven otherwise ( for instance it was beleived the world was flat and that flying was impossible nevermind space exploration)). You in other words beleive what your told without feeling the need to question or check for yourself ( This is faith)

so why is faith in relegion so obsurd?

We do question and check the results hence why we constantly discover new theories that dont match other peoples theories. Why do you put science down so much it has revolutionsed this planet, if it wasn't for science we would all be still living in mud huts hunting for wild animals. What has religion done?

daftdog how do you beleive you came to be?

I don't think you realise what a big question that is, you want me to narrate 4.5 billion years of history through to you? It could take me like 3 days just to give you the short story LOL!

dont tel me "4.5 billion years of history. just the beginning

dont tel me "4.5 billion years of history. just the beginning

dsgeeno1

[QUOTE="dsgeeno1"]

dont tel me "4.5 billion years of history. just the beginning

Jandurin

[QUOTE="daftdog"][QUOTE="dsgeeno1"][QUOTE="daftdog"][QUOTE="dsgeeno1"][QUOTE="Greatgone12"][QUOTE="dsgeeno1"]

why did jesus answer many questions from obvious non beleivers in questions?

Because you can only make someone beleive when they are ready to beleive/want to beleive.

In other words they have to convince themselves, simply telling them wont cut it.

Yes you can be good without "beleiving" in god. not "without god". Who really defines good?

why do people find it absurd to beleive in god, and fine to beleive in science, cos lets face it were not all scientists that have tested and "proved" these "THEORIES

dsgeeno1

Scientific theories have inherently been tested and "proved."

My point exactly, you beleive they have been proved (keep in mind i'm not saying science is fake)

But you havent seen the results, you never designed the tests, you havent seen the proof, and in many cases you do not extensively understand the implications. How many times has scieonce called something true only until its been proven otherwise ( for instance it was beleived the world was flat and that flying was impossible nevermind space exploration)). You in other words beleive what your told without feeling the need to question or check for yourself ( This is faith)

so why is faith in relegion so obsurd?

We do question and check the results hence why we constantly discover new theories that dont match other peoples theories. Why do you put science down so much it has revolutionsed this planet, if it wasn't for science we would all be still living in mud huts hunting for wild animals. What has religion done?

daftdog how do you beleive you came to be?

I don't think you realise what a big question that is, you want me to narrate 4.5 billion years of history through to you? It could take me like 3 days just to give you the short story LOL!

dont tel me "4.5 billion years of history. just the beginning

You see this is what confirms to me you have no idea about the scientific side of the story. You say beginging as if it just happened, in science the begining lasted nearly 650 million years. The planet did'nt just appear over night with water, trees and grass evrywhere it was a process of millions of years! If you knew the scientific side you would know that what you are asking is a bit broad. This is the differrence between religious and non religious people i know all about religion and its history, because i bothered to hear both sides, religious people only care about their side.

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="dsgeeno1"]

dont tel me "4.5 billion years of history. just the beginning

Ezgam3r

Its approximately 4.5 billion years ago that we think the big bang happened

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="dsgeeno1"]

dont tel me "4.5 billion years of history. just the beginning

Ezgam3r