Where did all this awkwardness towards women come from?

Now In no way shape or form do I claim to be an expert on the female of the species but all I do know is there are a huge number of topics created on OT by people, particularly in their late teens and early twenties who feel socially awkward, nervous or various other "negative emotions" around girls and women.

WHY!!!!???

I dont understand it guys, women are attracted to the same qualities they have been attracted to since we ran around with sticks and lived in caves. Just because civilized society has introduced a new set of rules and convoluted the system somewhat doesnt make YOU inferior or unattractive to the entirety of women.

I think you would be incredibly surprised how many stunning beautiful women exist out there who are just as awkward, nerdy and fucked up as the rest of us, and they want exactly what you do, comfort, security, laughter, joy, sex.

Please dont put the pussy on a pedestal. Talk to them, interact with them and enjoy them and things start to happen!

I want an introvert but you don't find them everywhere.

I think their attitude is a reflection of their age/maturity level and obviously inexperience with the female species.

Granted, I'm no Don Juan either, but when you realize that women are just people and talking to them is just as easy as talking to a guy, you get over that fear really quick. These sad saps here focus so much on first impressions that they psych themselves out and create rejection scenarios in their heads...and they haven't even talked to the girl yet!!

It's not that hard guys. Gain some confidence in yourself and get out there and make it happen! You can't win the game if you never play.

This. This X1000000

If you were a loser such as myself you'd understand

I make her pussy flow like a waterfall.

I can't relate. Been with my girl for going on 21 years and I prefer to be around women over men. Most men seem to be stupid barbaric morons that constantly feel the need to prove their manhood. I want no part of that ignorance. I am more than secure with my manhood and feel no need to prove it. I don't like loud obnoxious people and that seems to be what most men are. At least around my parts. Getting drunk and doped up on drugs seems to be their favorite pastime. I rarely drink and when I do, I do it at home with my girl. The closest thing to a drug that I do is smoke weed. To be far, I also avoid the junky girls around here too. They will suck your wallet dry for pills and heroin.

Where do you live, Compton CA? :D

@ShepardCommandr: what makes you think you are a looser?

Columbus, Ohio.

Neighboring state to me. Pennsylvania here.

You can't always just rationalize your way out of social anxiety and low self esteem.

It's a process of growing up. Some people take longer than others, not that hard to figure out.

The gym is a good tool to make yourself feel good about yourself and make you feel good in general.

Myself personally, I am no longer intimidated by any woman because I know I can have any one I want. Men tend to OCD on the beauty of a woman which causes them to compare their selves with them.

This is true, but harboring these constant inadequate thoughts isn't going to get you anywhere. When people realize that the problem is with them and not with others, they need to start taking the necessary steps to improve upon themselves. Face your fears because no one else is going to do it for you.

I think that this insecurity and awkwardness towards the opposite sex in general are unfortunate and unfavorable byproducts of modern civilization.

Its not societies fault people are insecure. Its their fault. Its just as easy to stand up and be counted (in the majority) of societies and be an individual as it is to buckle under the pressure of conforming or adopting insecurities and awkwardness. Unless you live in an extremely oppressive backwards location there is always a safe haven and place of solitude. I didnt start developing what I would describe as a distinctive and individual set of characteristics until my mid teens, but never once did I feel like society was responsible for the rare occasions I felt awkward.

If you piss you pants in public then its pretty normal to feel awkward about it, that is not societies fault.

If you cant order a coffee from a pretty waitress thats not societies fault either.

If your a gay person living in a very homophobic neighborhood I could understand some insecurity and awkwardness but the responsibility still remains on the individual to improve their situation rather than simply giving up and resigning themselves to a life of insecurity and awkwardness.

People cant simply make topics on OT about being rubbish with women and expect to miraculously improve that situation. Its not different than complaining about hating your job, whilst making zero effort to find another one.

*Waits for tomorrow's OT topic "Tried talking to a girl's pussy...got slapped. WTF OT?? Women are weird..."*

Yep, I agree. I've always been more comfortable around women than men. Growing up, I would never have anything to say to a group of "manly guys". It was just so frustrating having to deal with endless pissing contests and bragging tirades...on the other hand, I'd be perfectly comfortable in any group of women, who (maybe sub-consciously) would always make me the center of attention since I was the only guy there, but I have yet to just "parachute drop" into a group of women and having them receiving me with anything less than complete acceptance. And I find them so easy to talk to; most can make a pleasant conversation out of just about any topic, and they actually listen when you talk to them instead of thinking "yeah, yeah...you're having problems; shut up so I can tell you about this hot chick I banged yesterday".

Even when I would just walk up to a girl (alone or with her friends), introduce myself and 5 minutes later ask her(them) to go out for a coffee I was never rejected (no, they wouldn't automatically jump in bed with me, this is not a porn website). Even now, being married, 99% of my friends are women...

That being said, I think this shift in awkwardness is due, in big part (but not solely, obviously) to the shift in parenting. A few generations back if you were a man you'd get a pat on the back and told you had it made for the simple fact that you were born with a penis....get a job and all the girls would flock to you looking for security and stability like the mindless animals they were. The girls, on the other hand, like proper inferior beings, would be trained to be useful and skilled and maybe a guy would pick them up, despite all her flaws, and rescue her.

Thankfully things improved for women but not so much for relationships. Now the roles are a bit inverted. A lot of girls are raised to the "pussy worship" mentality; they have one, guys want one, that's all they need. Guys, on the other hand, like the mindless sex crazed inferior animals that they are, are trained to think women are this alien species who is akin to the Holy Grail and that a man's sole purpose in life is to be worthy of one, therefore everything he does should be to court a female from a distance, and under peril of death, approach the deadly predator. If she doesn't eat his head, he might actually get to take her out for coffee.

A few years back, I used to have lunch at a sandwich place and since it was close to a school there were always some kids having lunch with their parents. There were these 2 kids in particular, a boy with his father and a girl with his mother. They were probably around 8/9yo and the boy was completely in love with the girl (who never even noticed him). I'd see him stealing glances at her every time they met there. One day (after months) apparently his father encouraged him to go talk to her. He (the father) had a bouquet of flowers with him and took one out, gave it to the kid and told him to go give it to the girl. So the boy stands up, all shaky and sweaty, shyly walks over to the girl, introduces himself very formally and offers her the rose. It was really sweet and half the place was in a sort of mute "awww". The girl grabs the rose, looks at him like he had just lifted her skirt, throws the rose to the floor and says really loudly (obviously for spectacle sake) "Why would I want anything from YOU? Just because I'm a girl, it doesn't mean I have to deal with this shit!". Me, the boy's father, pretty much all the guys and some of the women were like "Holy shit...did that just happen?" while the girl's mother and the rest of the women were cheering for the girl...some even clapped! How is that sort of reaction even remotely acceptable? The little boy was so ashamed they never ate at that place again.

Nothing will improve with role reversal; we need role equality. I don't think any parent should foster the superior/inferior view upon others, regardless of gender. There is no reason to raise your kid not to be kind, accepting, generous, polite and with a sense of self-improvement. If parents decide how to raise their children based on what's between their kids' legs, no wonder kids become obsessed with it. And then we end up with OT threads about how to talk to girls like you need to learn a second language in order to approach one...

As a very young person (17) I can easily say both the awkwardness and fear of women comes from fantasies. When I wanted to talk to a girl, dark fantasies would start arising from my head about both failing and getting totally embarrassed. And that's just me wanting to start a normal conservations with girl.( I know, it's sad) The other factor that comes into play is the worry of not having a good conservation and keeping the conservation going. I am awful conservational speaker as of right now, keeping conservation going is for sure one of my weakest points as I don't know what to say talk at all. Also, I find myself regretting the words I said in a conservation later on. That's because when I've had time to think about the topic I had conservation with anyone, I always find better, more fleshed out, more thought of, opinion in my head. Here on the forums it is fine since nearly a lot of my opinions of the video game industry are already set. But having a 1-on-1 conservation with someone, or giving a public speech is where I start regretting what I've said. I've had very little experience talking to girls (Being shy) both casual and in romantically.(Every girl I've had a crush on, I've known has not like me back without me ever having to ask them out). The girls that I've had a crush on sofar have not have the same interest as me, which is F*cking nuts knowing they are the BIG three: Video games, movies, and comic books. You would think some other female would like things a lot but at my HS that I went to, it seems no girl one did. They probably did, I just didn't get to know any of them. Also, when say someone like me (not popular in HS) talks to my crush which has a lot of friends (So in that popular group) you get vibe in the back of your head that everyone is like "What's that guy doing talking to her". I know your not suppose to care what others think, but sometimes you can't help it. Also, knowing that there are hotter/more out going guys in your school also destory your confidence completely and me being chummy/ not having muscles doesn't help.

Once you experience the things above, you gain a paranoid about yourself and any other girl that I come in contact with. Just another girl doing the simplest thing that involves me in it (Them saying thanking you, or asking for something like a pencil) makes sparks in my that she might like me which I know is crazy and insane but it's true.

I'm starting Junior College class in a couple of weeks, (Going to be a senior, but my school district has a program where you can take your senior year of HS at a Junior College to get a head start) but I won't be in full force until the Fall semester, where I know a lot of cute girls will be in my class. They probably don't have a high opinion of me just as they probably think I'm disabled. And that's because I went to an early introduction session with my dad while everyone else was by themselves. I don't mind my parents sticking with me (My parents won't ever let me by myself ever when I'm outside the house that is not mandatory school, but that's a topic for another day) but my dad was doing all the legwork while I was just sitting back (He didn't trust me with important documents). Shoot, the professor and his assists even though I was disabled. First impressions, not good.

I don't want to sound depress here and of need of sympathy (cause I don't need it) but I just realized while writing this, that I haven't an actual talk with a person in real-life in a very long time. Me and my parents just do small talk real. But the only real communication I do is through the forums. On man, I really need to get out more. I have also thought that I just don't want to really socialize with my class mate since I just want to focus on my work and get through Junior College and eventually University. Shoot, recently I've been thinking of not even trying to go on a date or ever get a gf in my life as the career profession I am picking might be time consuming for that kinda of stuff. I will admit, I am wayyyyyy too young to even be making that life choice.

And lastly, I have seen that I started out talking about why me and other late teens are awkward towards girls to explaining my life. Shoot. I'll just leave it there as I need advice on that stuff anyways. And while I'm at it, my biggest appearance fetish is TomBoys :P

@behardy24: I just wish more guys would realise that for first impressions what you say to a girl is nowhere near as important as how you approach her. Of course if you approach a girl and open with "Hi, I have athlete's foot!" you might not get far, but other than that, just walk up to a girl and say something. Then if nothing comes to mind, do a lot of listening, ask some follow through questions and before you know it she's been talking to you for 10 minutes.

One thing that I find a lot of guys do wrong: they approach girls with the intention of making them fall for them. This is a lot of extra pressure that you don't need. Approach a girl the same way you'd approach a guy; with the intention of making a friend or just have a casual chat. If you look at every girl like they're all potential girlfriends you'll just end up falling on your face 90% of the time...

Also, you probably should talk to your parents...unless you have homicidal tendencies, I see no reason for you not being able to go somewhere "unsupervised". If you explain to them how they're hurting you in the long run I'm sure they'll back off, because parents want the best for you and they want to be with you for as long as possible, so if you don't tell them "I don't want you following me everywhere I go" then they'll probably not stop on their own accord.

Most importantly, never think of quitting; that's just no solution...you don't want to embarrass yourself because then no girl will be interested in you so then you decide to be alone so you won't embarrass yourself? There's no logic in it. Just go out there, make friends with girls, make a fool out of yourself every now and then, shrug it off like an adult, and have fun! =D

The old days weren't so bad..... ;)

Just because most haven't met the right girl yet. The right one will leave you confident and make you feel like a king among men.

I struggled with it for a long time but just because I thought it was impossible to find an attractive girl who liked everything I did and I was always conforming or lying about my life to suit or please them.

There comes a point where I'd agree with the OP in the past. But I'm chronically ill. Severely so. I go through chemo weekly that makes me miserable Mon-THurs. I've been doing this since the age of 20. I'm now 36. I've never had a relationship. Never a career. Minor college with no degree. My parents take care of me. I live on $1000 disability a month, half of which goes to them, the rest to piano lessons and to what gives me an element of pleasure in life: games. Basically all of my adult years have been spent in constant medical treatment and will continue to be.

Thing is, I don't understand what it is to be an "adult". I don't know what "mature" is. Nor of what it's like to bear the traditional responsibilities that a man does as he ages. My growth as a person has been very stunted. I'm literally a 20 year old in a 36 year old's body when it comes to terms of what society expects in many areas. I can't even relate to people who were my good friends when I was 20 because they're now buying houses and having families. We could be from separate planets as far as I'm concerned.

Women my age expect things at this point, the fun days of exploration and discovery are passing and they're quickly looking to find a Rooster and lay some eggs (if they are still single, that is), and there are far greener pastures elsewhere. What they don't want is someone who's 36 to have such stunted understandings of the mere basics of living life and things such as social interactions. Of living with the parents. Of having no income or career, only the offering and burden of supporting someone with a very physically and emotionally draining illness that gives little payout in return.

Do you know what it's like trying to get to know people with such a history? Much less females? It's impossible. Ok, not impossible, but exceptionally hard. I'm completely and totally fucked when it comes to any relationship, woman OR man. There's nothing on offer here aside from pain and misery and people don't want to be around either. I don't blame them, but if anyone has some miracle cure for me that can automatically shove me back into the show "how life works, how to play it and be included" I'd love to hear about it.

What the **** is the point really. TC, I understand your post was targeted at early 20s and all, but that's me. I am in my early 20s...... I just don't know how to explain that fact to those I meet. Funny thing is, when I was diagnosed I was a hugely popular lifeguard at the Y with all the swimmers and was with chicks constantly. Perhaps this is my punishment for such great times.

But really, it's not that simple.

Brave ass post which brought some tears to my eyes. Made me 10 times more appreciative of what I got and made my problems look like bitch-tits.

It's honesty and realness like that that make me believe there is someone out there for you. Women respect that no matter how depressing or dire you might think it be. You might not have much offer to the socialized standard of what women want but to the right person you might have everything she need. You would love the **** out of her like tomorrow was your last and I hope some girl will be smart enough to see that.

@lamprey263: Don't think I've ever been in an explosion of flaps...

Also, vampires, zombies and clowns...I just hope HBO doesn't see this....

I don't exhibit any awkwardness towards women in particular. It's just that I'm a little awkward and shy when dealing with all people, be it male or female, though it's not as bad as it used to be. On top of that, I find it difficult to come up with interesting topics to initiate conversation which could give of the impression that I'm a boring person and I am a little, yes, at least with people I don't know well and don't have things in common. I'm not bad-looking, throughout my years in elementary and high-school there have been girls that showed an interest in me but they were probably expecting me to make the first move which I didn't because I was too shy.

My biggest issue now at 21 is that I don't really know or hang out with any girls in the first place in order to find a potential partner. I'm not that social of a person so I'm pretty much limited to my circle of guy friends. There are only 2-3 girls in my classes and I don't find any of them attractive to make a move, while I see countless beautiful girls all over the place lol. Other people meet attractive girls in their classes, in the library, through common friends or in whatever random way. This has never happened to me...

@johnd13: A lot of those random ways start by approaching a girl and saying "Hi, I'm John" ;-)

@korvus: I know that, but I find it very hard to approach a random girl on the street or the bus to introduce myself and ask for her number. I know that I should man up and that I'm responsible for still being single but almost all people I know met their girlfriends and hang out with them before actually asking them out. It would be so much easier that way... Funny thing is I've given your advice to other people but it's harder when I'm actually in the uncomfortable position.

@johnd13: Yep, and that's the difference between "simple" and "easy"....also, don't go by what others do or how they find people. I know guys who will be in a relationship with their next door neighbor for no better reason than "she was there". You don't seem the type, so it'll be less likely that you'll just start dating a girl you've been around for a while and have no interest in, and there's nothing wrong with it. Hell, I was always surrounded by girls and the first girl I dated lived 3 countries away =P

@korvus: Just out of curiousity and if you don't mind sharing, how did you meet with your wife? Did you approach her and say "Hi, I'm Pedro"? =P

@johnd13: Pretty much; Followed by "I love your music" =)

EDIT: Ok, since when does pressing Enter sends the post? >_< Anyway, like I've said before I'm Portuguese and my wife is Dutch, so I heard her music and contacted her to let her know that she had fans all the way to Portugal ;) She was really nice in replying to me, so we started talking often and when vacation time came she visited Portugal and we actually hit it off.

@korvus: That's nice. Making the first move must be the hardest part, then the pieces seem to fall together naturally(with a bit of luck).

@johnd13: The hardest part was proposing to her in front of 5 thousand people XD Also one of the most fun parts though =P

But seriously, it wasn't really that hard because I didn't contact her with the intention of flirting with her or make her fall for me. I wrote to her only to tell her I enjoyed her music, I wasn't even expecting a reply. It's like I said earlier in this thread; if you don't approach women with the intention of dating them, normally things go a lot better.

Social anxiety is a bitch, but I've never found women be anymore difficult to talk to than men.

That was a great post dude.

Il also be totally honest. I dont think I have ever had a single conversation in real life...that has not gone better and been more fleshed out in my head after the fact, Its human nature, to dwell on social interaction in order to learn from it, however if your already somewhat insecure this can lead into a bit of a negative cycle. The fact you have come to some form of realization of your situation makes me really glad I have made this topic.

Its also perfectly possible to admit to a girl that your a massive geek, the secret is, dont make it sound like its some sort of disgusting unattractive quality, sell it as one of your many unique and interesting characteristics. Girls are so used to guys trying to impress them with stereotypical "guy stuff" meeting a guy who actually has a variety of hobbies and interests isnt necessarily as unattractive as you think it is. The only thing I would be wary of is "wearing" your interests. The classic is always the long haired maiden guy at school....there's nothing wrong with wearing what you like, nothing wrong with being an iron maiden fan. But a pretty girl who doesnt share your interests is likely just to see a guy who has created a uniform of things she does not understand, Its not productive to promoting conversation. Its far better to simply have a statement piece of clothing as part of a generic outfit, one thing among many that you want to be noticed....and girls being largely observant will probably pick up on this.

Keep your comic books and video games and "geeky stuff" but assert yourself as someone who enjoys being that person, assert yourself as someone who woman can relax and be a little bit geeky around themselves.

Il be honest the dad thing probably confused a few people but its not too late. I would say, "my dad was nervous for me starting a year earlier and insisted on coming with me, I hate it because its embarrassing but its nice he cares and I couldnt say no to him". No girl is going to laugh at you for saying that, It makes it sound like you made the decision to bring your dad...rather than visa versa.

Get a lil practice in. Talk and talk and talk to people. I always find people who are at work in customer service roles are great. Not only do they have to talk to you, but they are usually really good at it. They have practice talking to shy people and can usually make the best of it. They appreciate people taking time out of their day to actually acknowledge them and will not shoot you down.

Just put it in the right hole.

It's weird cause talking to women who you consider as friends or cause they are dating your friends isn't hard at least for me. Talking to girls you actually like is a lot harder since you have this mindset of trying to please her or not make a fool of yourself.

I cant say I find it "easy" just to walk up to a girl and say Hi. What I am is they guy who acknowledges that being in an elevator full of people is awkward...the guy who pulls the face when he knows someone farted. The guy who will say good morning to people he walks past. Just the kind of person who actually says stuff when people usually dont, I enjoy pointless friendly interactions with people, passers by, I like asking when the pretty girl in the super market when she finishes her shift....and when she says she has one hour left I like saying pointless shit like....well done!!! nearly there!!!

Like i said in my OP. Im not Romeo, but the more you talk to people the easier and easier it becomes. I have caught women entirely off guard by making trivial friendly conversation, turning THEM! into the awkward insecure ones briefly until they have had time to engage conversation mode. We do live in a society that is largely afraid of interacting with people they dont know. Thats why guys and girls appreciate it all the more when it does happen. You can be that guy, and its an attractive quality in anyone. Dont be the guy that doesnt do stuff "just in case". Be the guy that DOES do stuff...just in case.

@always_explicit: Look at you! It's good advice after good advice today =D I had to laugh when you said "I like asking when the pretty girl in the super market when she finishes her shift....and when she says she has one hour left I like saying pointless shit like....well done!!! nearly there!!!". I bet that poor girl's mind was like "Yeah yeah...wait...what?" when you said "well done" instead of "want to go out?" Get them off balance and the advantage is yours XD Being unpredictable has so many advantages...if it works, you're funny/interesting, if it doesn't, you're "quirky", but either way you've just been acknowledged.

Society, being told different things, hypocrisy, bad experiences. Low self esteem just triple that issue. The older I get though the better I am with women mostly because I stop caring and just do what I want. If I like her I'll show it and if she's mutual then it's all good. People over exaggerate everything thus putting women on the pedestal so you think like they're some kind of god. If it fails then oh well it's her loss and move on

what does that even mean? i have always been awkward around girls.

this

im also like behardy24 always second guessing myself around girls and thinking about other and how they see me or us.

Its a quote from 40 year old virgin xD

I'm I'm a little awkward with everyone, so just people in general.

I think you're on to something. Any way you could elaborate on how that came to be?

I think this is the case for many on OT.

Having been pepper sprayed for saying Hi to a woman in a bar, waiting on my first drink of the night, I think being a little careful isn't a bad idea.

I will tuck my dick between my legs and say girls think I am really weird and dangerous.

I won't lie, I'm not great with people. I function perfectly fine one on one or one on two max. Functioning properly in a group however is a completely different story. Put it this way: if I can't give someone my undivided attention for any number of reason, including but not limited to, being in a group, not knowing that person all that well and/or the existence of a source of tension between that someone then my social skills cease to be. I don't know why I feel this way.