What exactly makes you patriotic?

Admit it, no matter how 'open minded' you might call yourself, there's a part of you that is still the 12 year old patriotic kid who thought his country was the best. Perhaps, that's the part that helps us be open minded.

For me, I've seen enough shit. The only reason why I'm still patriotic is because of the founder of this country : Muhammad Ali Jinnah. All the reasons of him creating a separate homeland for Muslims were lost not a decade after his death. But nothing stops me from admiring a man who not only stood up against his enemies but also confronted the snakes in his abode valiantly. As Stanley Wolpert puts it in his biography of Jinnah :

"Few individuals significantly alter the course of history. Fewer still modify the map of the world. Hardly anyone can be credited with creating a nation-state. Muhammad Ali Jinnah did all three."

Jinnah founded Pakistan so he could 'experiment' with Islamic Sharia but in came Zia and fucked up everything. What was meant to be a progressive Muslim state is now another sandy shithole.

Perhaps, the thing that I love the most about Jinnah was his views on women and their treatment.

"We are victims of evil customs. It is a crime against humanity that our women are shut up within the four walls of the houses as prisoners. There is no sanction anywhere for the deplorable condition in which our women have to live."

"There are two powers in the world ; one is the sword and the other is the pen. There is a great competition and the rivalry between the two. There is a third power, stronger than both. That of the women".

It's all thanks to him that at least Pakistan's Constitution is fair to women. But the lawlessness in the country just screws up the purpose of the Constitution. It's not just the lawlessness, it's the people's ignorance of their own rights that results in their oppression. Well, whatever, I'm too realistic to hope for a 'change' at this point.

What makes you patriotic fellas?

Patriotism is simply a love for your country. You don't have to do think it's "the best", just that you'll do whatever it takes for your country to be the best it can.

@JustPlainLucas: Yeah yeah.Read the rest.

I maybe born and raise in U.S but I ain't no patriotic to say the least. The U.S has it's flaws but I ain't going my way to start patriotic on my beliefs. I wish I could rule the U.S and return this country to it's full glory.

Isn't Pakistan the country with one of the most corrupt governments in the modern world and why so many of it's citizens are emigrating to western countries to escape it?

Progressive theocracy? Now there's a contradiction in terms if I ever saw one.

I never really felt anything special towards my country other than "it's where my house is"...I grew up in poverty so there wasn't much to think of it.

@gwynnblade: Okay I'll bite. Do you think all Americans are Patriotic?

I love the U.S. and served as a Lieutenant in the army. Yes I am a patriot but I don't think everything that happens in my country is always right.

If you willingly sacrificed for your country then it means you're patriot. This could mean military service, public service, civic duty or any number of things.

What if you've done these for a country other than the one you were born in? Does it still counts as being patriotic? I just count it as being a good person and wanting to help others, regardless of their nationality =)

The U.S. is way better than the middle east; we use toilet paper.

Nothing. Its moronic to be "proud" of others achievements just because they were born on the same piece of land as you.

I am not an Athenian or a Greek, but a citizen of the world.

Socrates, from Plutarch, Of Banishment
Greek philosopher in Athens (469 BC - 399 BC)

@MakeMeaSammitch: Now that's funny, but Pakistan isn't the middle east, may have nuclear weapons but I'm not so shure about the toilet paper though.

i'm a taxpayer

Basically just wanting the best for the country and a willingness to see its issues

@davillain-: No. This thread might as well be renamed to "What makes you still identify yourself with your country?". When it comes to nationalities, I'm too open minded. Honestly speaking, all people from all nationalities seem the same to me, no difference.

@foxhound_fox: Yeah it is, unfortunately.

Growing up as a U.S. Air Force kid on bases with the roar and awesomeness of our jets through the skies. I ended up joining the Air Force as well.

Many things. Like the fact that nearly all the famous Muslim scientists and scholars throughout history belong to my country. The fact that we undoubtedly have the best poetry in the entire world. The fact that we had tons of great Sufis here. The fact that we had many intelligent theologians and debaters and still do. The fact that there are a few people in my country who are open-minded and progressive and at the same time are very devoted and knowledgeable. The fact that we had many martyrs who fought for Islam and not just for their Arabian zeal. The fact that my country fought with Russia, England and the U.S and still is standing. The fact that we had great religious leaders who led the fights against colonialism and Imperialism many of whom were Sayyids too. The fact that we had great nationalist individuals who also fought against injustice. The fact that we tried to abolish kingship in our country even though it runs deep in the culture. The fact that during a war where the enemy’s leader who was a hypocrite talked about racism, religious bigotry and annihilating a civilization that undoubtedly has served Islam more than any other nation, our slogan still was Islam and not blind nationalism or prosecuting the minorities, our slogan was protecting Islam against the neo-Ahzab and we did so. Islam 1 - Arabism 0. The fact that one leader had the guts to speak of establishing an Islamic state and upholding justice and fighting injustice in a culture and a religion where people believed they should just let the world be or worse let it become full of injustice for their so-called savior to appear. The fact that that one leader, talked about reforming the Islamic jurisprudence but died before he could see it happen. But since I know no boundaries nor believe in any borders might as well… The fact that we knew the earth was round way before any European realized it. The fact that our women had the right to vote since 14 centuries ago. The fact that we had many influential women during our history. The fact that our women were paid equally as men since 14 centuries ago. The fact that we fought the most wretched enemies imaginable and yet we never were on offense. The fact that we conquered an entire country and in the process only less than 800 people died. The fact that we civilized a barbaric culture, the Bedouin culture, even though parts of it still remain unfortunately. The fact that we didn’t force our religion on anyone and people came to us and accepted our religion willingly. The fact that our early caliphs lived a dirt poor life. The story of Umar and that Roman messenger, or the story of Ali and that loaf of uneatable bread. The fact that our early caliphs were super just. Like Umar removing Khalid because he spent money from the treasury or the story of Ali not giving his own brother any coins from the treasury beyond what his right was. The story of pious people like Abu Hanifah. The story of great people like Ahmad ibn Hanbal who was prosecuted because he didn’t believe in Mutazilism. The story of Mansoor Hallaj and how he died because people didn’t understand him. The story of Jafar al-Sadiq and the rest of the prophet’s progeny and their fight against innovations and fabrications and corrupt caliphs. The fact that we had many enemies since the beginning then we had the Mongol invasion and then the invasion by the West and yet we survived. The fact that we are an ever growing nation and despite the massive attack by the West and their massive propaganda war we are still here stronger than ever just not united and that’s exactly what our enemies want. To not be united. Because of the fact that should we be united, then that means a new superpower. An Islamic superpower that can easily attract people to it unlike other superpowers. And that would mean that the other superpowers need to pack their bags and go. The fact that we can indeed become a superpower if only…

So yeah, the above is my patriotism in short.

@alim298: Woah! I'd forgotten half of them. Maybe its the negativity I'm seeing around myself that's made me ignore our positive points...well what do they matter now that we've lost them?

I wouldn't describe myself as being patriotic, but there many things I admire about the country I live in, and I know I'm lucky to live in such a place when there are so many crazy and backwards places I could have very easily ended up.

I like the people of my country. But I dont unconditionally support the policies of my country. I disagree with a lot of what they have done. For instance, I find the Iraq war to be unjust.

Exactly. It's time to move on. I hate those people who say we are better than everybody else because of what our fathers did and believe me there are a lot of people who are like that. The people before you were a different nation and now you've inherited from them all these great things that you can look up to. The question is what have you done with your inheritance? What have YOU done? Isn't it better to try to become an even greater nation than before instead of just sitting and doing nothing? Isn't it better to make your ancestors proud than to take pride in your ancestors?

But many people miss this point.

I remember bringing up the topic of Muslim scientists with my friends. I said "In the past two centuries, the world has only seen 1 Muslim scientist and he too was declared a kafir by the Muslims just because of his sect" and everyone was like "Wtf you saying?! you're forgetting Jabar bin Hayan, Ibn-al-Haythem and blablalba". God damn this mentality.

Okay let's see... Regarding the USA: despite its shameful state presently, I think it's awesome that it was the spearhead towards a newer world where everyone could be free, and how the entire country assumed the responsibility and role of protector of the world during the first and second World Wars. Everything Cold War and after just makes me shake my head.

Spain: Has had gay marriage rights since a decade ago, in an age where there are still first world countries disputing this right. The way of life is, in my personal opinion, near perfect. Spanish people aren't as lazy as the world make them out to be, but they do know how to have fun when they aren't working. It's a pity that time and again the country has pushed for a more progressive government and really has been in many cases one of the freest of countries (the 1812 constitution, or the first or second Republics), however there's always been a whole other half of the country ready to destroy everything Spain has built; the current government are a very recent example, though Franco's regime is the most obvious.

Catalonia: When I say that Spain has strived to be one of the most progressive countries, without Catalonia they wouldn't have been anywhere near. Catalans have been knocked down time and again throughout history, shunned for not being Spanish yet not allowed to simply be Catalans. Conquered in 1714, the Catalan language prohibited for 40 years under Franco, left wing Catalans executed by firing squads in the hundreds during those years, economically and politically punished up to this very day for being conquered territory, rather than true Spaniards (no joke, around €14bn in Catalan taxes not returning to the Catalan budget each year, being instead wasted on projects such as high velocity train lines no one uses; the Mediterranean Corridor, a train line going thought the coast of all the mediterranean which would boost the economy being vetoed by the Spanish govt because it doesn't pass through Madrid ; or perhaps the most recent attempts to eliminate the Catalan language in Catalan elementary and high schools) and yet it's still the Spanish region with a highest GDP per capita bar Madrid, it's the region which most spends on investigation, it's a crib for businesses and has the highest ranking universities of the country, capable of competing with other European unis, despite the country's self-limiting laws. Catalans are proud, hard-working and non-violent people (we've demonstrated that with plenty of manifestations) in a country with a history of shameful violence and fascism.

tl;dr: come on Spain, get a hold of yourself.

I consider myself lucky to be able to live the way I'm living now. My wife had no marketable skills when she first immigrated here. But, she worked hard to get where she is now which is pretty decent.

To show our thanks for the opportunities given us, we do little things to give some back. I spend a lot of weekends under the hot sun picking up trash along highways. We also do volunteer work for requests that show up either at my place of work or the wife's.

That's the way I show my patriotism.

Of course, if I wanted to do the stereotypical flag-waving, I do it too once a year. Happy Birthday!

Me.

If we look at the definition of the word it's that you have a love, connection and/or sense of obligation to the country you are born within/ lived in to such a degree that you start to feel in such manner. It can be cultural, ethnic or political based.

Let me explain.. patriotic means to "hate" other countries.

@Dogswithguns:

patriotic means being proud of one's own country, not hating other countries. There is a difference.

My country has a long history , has been key player in international affairs good or bad but the one thing that I hate most is the government and the recent prime ministers who have made decisions that make my country look like a joke the same country that at one point had the largest empire in history. I am lucky to live in the UK could have been born in some backwards crap hole somewhere. Many british are patriotic just not as in your face as the US though it tends to show during sporting events or national holidays. As for myself I am a little patriotic but I don't show it much.

Pakistan isn't a place I'd let people know I was from.

Why? Not all Pakistanis are bad. I've seen a number who are very westernized. Of course, it sucks to have among them those who still believe in honor killings.

Heck. Didn't Pakistan have a female prime minister at some point? B. Bhutto.

I love my country because I can burn the flag

In celebration of the freedoms we have been endowed...

I like how people just completely ignored the topic's point, for the sole reason of taking a jab at OP's home country.

Serious question @gwynnblade , why do you bother posting on OT? This place is hopeless, and its user-base is mostly childish. Lots of people have given up on this site and community, and nobody posts here anymore except for people who have been on this site since God knows when.

I'm still learning, but: اب کیا إيك اچها إنسان ھے

So give up on this rotten place. :P

On-topic: I'm not patriotic in the least. I couldn't care less about artificial borders.

Of course not all are bad. I'm sure most of them are good people. However, a country where mobs set women on fire simply because they were accused of adultery is not a place I'd be proud to be from.

Sure, the U.S. has its flaws and fucked up people, but nothing on that level. You may find one or two psychopaths here and there (it's a huge country) but you'll never see an entire mob happily watch another human being burn to death.

That happened in Afghanistan. There's a fine border between Pakistan and Afghanistan. The only dark side to Pakistan would be the illiterate areas.

Are you from Pakistan?

Well, I just post here for the heck of it. If you don't let people know, they'll never know. Of course, it takes time to know who's just ignorant and who's willfully ignorant. The former has the tendency to learn, the later doesn't. Both are in 1:1 ratio on OT.

میں مسلم سے امت ہوں- میں أردو سیکھنا ہوں-

Was that good for a beginner level?

And your ratio is off, I'd say it's around 6:1. I've been on here since 2008, with almost 4 accounts (most of them were more active than this one), so that's around 7 years of my life. I assure you, practically 95% of the people who post here still think the same way. Nothing changed about them. Don't be fooled by their question marks. lol

I've seen people here change genders, nationalities, and get wed. To this day I have not seen a single person change his mind about any real issue of importance. Heck, if anything, people have gone more extreme since first posting on this site.

Things and achievements I'm happy with in The Netherlands

• First country in the world to legalise gay-marriage (and simply calling it marriage) in 2001
• Euthanasia is legal (under certain circumstances)
• No state religion and only 17% of the inhabitants subscribe to a religion
• Relaxed about marijuana and hasj use
• Our system enables a good mix of social security and business opportunity
• We have one of the world's smartest regions (Brainport region Eindhoven)

Flyin' the confederate flag, 'Murica!

You're right and I apologize for being ignorant. I was thinking of the time when a husband and his father set his wife on fire for leaving the house without his permission. Crazy shit like this still happens there and while it is illegal, the fact that some people still find this okay is sickening.

http://news.yahoo.com/husband-sets-wife-fire-pakistan-honour-killing-100532923.html

This is also on top of how corrupt the Pakistani government is and how willing they are to help terrorists. It's obviously not the worst place to live, but it's far from good. Then again, maybe I'm just being an ignorant American thinking anything worse than what I'm used to is bad. Who knows...

It's unfortunate cases like those still exists. They're only limited to backward areas. Usually in the North where education isn't much common. Folks are brainwashed by whatever the landlord or the Mullah feeds them with. Gladly, there's been a lot of awareness of these issues in the recent years and we're steadily heading towards an enlightened future.

Pakistani Government must be the world's most anti-terrorist government. If one government official had said anything about supporting the terrorists, the Army Chief would of killed him in public. Sure the government's corrupt, but its in no way pro-terrorism. We've been fighting the largest anti-terrorism operation called "Zarb-e-Azb" for the last few years and over 90% of Pakistan has been quarantined. The only tensions that do exist now are the sectarian wars. God damn those zealots.

Good enough, I'd say. Though there's a lot of room for improvement.

LOL
For all the years I've spent on the internet, I guess I've kind of become an expert at sniffing who'll listen and who''ll not. Usually, with those who won't listen, I just carry on for the sake of arguing, trolling and flaming and so on. My inner sadist enjoys it.

Anyways, at least tell me where are you from? like where are you currently living?

I've probably seen more Stars and Bars being flown in the isolated hills of Upstate New York than any other place in the South. That and some rural areas in the southern parts of Illinois and Indiana.

I figure as a citizen that if the govt that I help pay for will flat out lie to me over and over and over or keep trying to do shady things under my nose, then damage control it away if caught without any politician going to prison like I would if I did something similar then I have no real reason to be very patriotic. It's a good country in many ways comparing as we can consume a lot freely and you can have a roof over your head without ever having a job but we are some seriously nosey, paranoid, self entitled, hypocritical bastards of most anything I've ever heard of.

It's like we are almost doing things that Nazi's would have done except instead of killing citizens, we throw money towards programs that won't solve a problem but rather succeed in segregating us into classes and groups leaving vague opportunities for only a few to a point where a degree doesn't guarantee financial freedoms but the fact remains that the poor especially are still forced into the ghetto by some fashion through lack of real opportunities and local funding where it matters such as tearing down vacants and building things that bring in local job opportunities..etc. Middle class gets to run themselves into serious debt just to go to college amongst other things that basically is really all designed keep most where they are, even if that means letting banks..etc have crazy interest rates by practically handing out loans to anyone knowing further that a decent percentage of them won't be able to help themselves despite also knowing they could never really pay it back efficiently. We spend millions to feed and teach 3rd world countries by handing out bags of rice and cheap junk to make the wealthy feel good while turning around wasting billions on other 1st world countries issues, shady trade agreements ..etc where they win financially and we win militarily or we provide weapons and tanks all on the house of the middle class americans because they are allies, yet the same allies don't often help us in the same manner other than giving political agenda's some leg room.

We are a back asswords country in many ways where the only way any of it makes sense depends solely on where the money flows. The whole economic structure has been in constant refinement to plug every hole to make sure that money goes where the corporate elite and politicians want it to go. If we spent any wasted billions on our own citizens, allowing tax reforms, doing away with lobbying..etc then it would screw up plans for a variety of agenda's, cost high paying jobs and release power from unions and we can't have any of that now can we.

Because we - the British - pioneered that great one invention that's provided a unifying foundation to the civilised society we know of today: The prawn cocktail flavoured crisp.

Also worthy of mentions are the pickled onion flavoured crisp, the branston pickle flavoured crisp and heroin

As much as I would love to believe you that they don't support terrorism, there's no way in hell they didn't know where Bin Laden was. I realize they fight the terrorists as well, but I believe some in the Pakistani government and intelligence agency secretly support them. There's a reason the U.S. keeps them in the dark on some operations.

I really hope Pakistan can pull it together and become more civilized (like you said in your original post, there are a lot of lawless areas) but I'm not holding my breath. Religion is just too strong in that part of the world. Not only do you have to fight the outdated customs of some religions and religious leaders, you also have to survive the senseless killing between sects of the same damn religion.

We're all just catching up to Socrates.