Rob Woodall On Medicare: 'When Do I Decide I'm Going To Take Care Of Me?'

People on welfare can still contribute to society. I have a cousin who is mentally challenged and gets government assistance, he's only allowed to work so many hours but he still pays taxes from it. HoolaHoopMan

I'm not saying they can't. I'm saying that I contribute more. As for those who are mentally-retarded or disabled, I don't expect them to contribute as much as those who are on welfare only because of unemployment. I'm perfectly fine paying to help them.

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="white_wolf922"] I'm claiming that a lot of his profits come from exploitation. Most of Apple's products are made in third world sweat shops where workers are exploited. Therefore Jobs is making profits off pretty much slave labor. Oh, and for every Steve Jobs and Bill Gates who actually may have worked to make their companies there are 10 Paris Hilton and Georges Bush types who have never worked a day in their worthless lives. white_wolf922

First of all commie isn't an insult to me since I am one. Though if you want to be specific you could call me a Trotskyist. Secondly you've touched on one of my biggest problems with the Right. This belife that every poor person is lazy and on wellfare and does not work. That is completely and utterly false. As I said a lot of poor people work much harder than any CEO who merely manipulates money. white_wolf922

And what drives us on the right crazy is people like you who think CEOs don't do any work at all. This would make a great reality show. Just pick up your average person on welfare and put them in charge of a company for a week. Well, it would be great until the company went bankrupt.

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]People on welfare can still contribute to society. I have a cousin who is mentally challenged and gets government assistance, he's only allowed to work so many hours but he still pays taxes from it. airshocker

I'm not saying they can't. I'm saying that I contribute more. As for those who are mentally-retarded or disabled, I don't expect them to contribute as much as those who are on welfare only because of unemployment. I'm perfectly fine paying to help them.

Well you just said that people on welfare don't pay for any of their assistance....well they do by paying taxes. You may ultimately pay more in comparison but they still put some into the pool of money.HoolaHoopMan

They don't, in my eyes, as long as they don't pay as much as I do.

I'm really just trying to make my resentment clear, as opposed to arguing any kind of point.

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]Well you just said that people on welfare don't pay for any of their assistance....well they do by paying taxes. You may ultimately pay more in comparison but they still put some into the pool of money.airshocker

They don't, in my eyes, as long as they don't pay as much as I do.

I'm really just trying to make my resentment clear, as opposed to arguing any kind of point.

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="white_wolf922"] Let me make this very clear. As long as a single person who is working hard and trying in this country is dying from lack of food, shelter, health care,or is unable to provide for their families decently, then no one deserves to be making millions of dollars every year. white_wolf922

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]Well you just said that people on welfare don't pay for any of their assistance....well they do by paying taxes. You may ultimately pay more in comparison but they still put some into the pool of money.airshocker

They don't, in my eyes, as long as they don't pay as much as I do.

So if you and another person split the cost of dinner they pay $10 and you pay $11 they've paid nothing by your logic?

People can't work and still be on welfare. Nibroc420

Uhh, yeah, they can.

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]People can't work and still be on welfare. worlock77

Uhh, yeah, they can.

So everyone needs to pay "as much" as you, and until then anything they contribute counts as nothing? HoolaHoopMan

To the government they contribute enough. That's all that matters, right?

So if you and another person split the cost of dinner they pay $10 and you pay $11 they've paid nothing by your logic?

worlock77

No, there are always exceptions.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]People can't work and still be on welfare. Nibroc420

Uhh, yeah, they can.

Should or shouldn't is a different matter entirely. The fact is they can and often do. Someone may have a job but it isn't enough to take care of their family. In that case they may have assistance such as food stamps and such. But hell, at least they're making an effort and they're at least paying something into the system.

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]So everyone needs to pay "as much" as you, and until then anything they contribute counts as nothing? airshocker

To the government they contribute enough. That's all that matters, right?

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

Uhh, yeah, they can.

worlock77

Should or shouldn't is a different matter entirely. The fact is they can and often do. Someone may have a job but it isn't enough to take care of their family. In that case they may have assistance such as food stamps and such. But hell, at least they're making an effort and they're at least paying something into the system.

That's not answering my question though, I'm asking YOU. Do people need to pay as much as you in order for their contributions even count?HoolaHoopMan

I would certainly like that, but no.

Like I said, just vocalizing my resentment on the matter.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"] They shouldn't :|Nibroc420

Should or shouldn't is a different matter entirely. The fact is they can and often do. Someone may have a job but it isn't enough to take care of their family. In that case they may have assistance such as food stamps and such. But hell, at least they're making an effort and they're at least paying something into the system.

What? How is that last bit even remotely relevant to the discussion. Furthermore why is this even a discussion? You said people can't work and be on welfare, that simply is not true. Not much to discuss there really.

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]Well you just said that people on welfare don't pay for any of their assistance....well they do by paying taxes. You may ultimately pay more in comparison but they still put some into the pool of money.airshocker

They don't, in my eyes, as long as they don't pay as much as I do.

I'm really just trying to make my resentment clear, as opposed to arguing any kind of point.

I'm pretty sure you don't pay as much as some other people. So is how much you pay a golden standard or something?

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]That's not answering my question though, I'm asking YOU. Do people need to pay as much as you in order for their contributions even count?airshocker

I would certainly like that, but no.

Like I said, just vocalizing my resentment on the matter.

Well I guess I don't share your attitude. You seem to be caught up in a world of "Me, Me, Me". Your resentment more than likely stems from a massive misunderstanding of why people are actually on welfare and what their lives are actually like. I think it's plain as day when you claim people on welfare contribute NOTHING back and insist that anyone below you on the tax bracket is nothing more than a non-contributing bum. HoolaHoopMan

No one else cares about what's good for me. If that makes me selfish then oh well.

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]That's not answering my question though, I'm asking YOU. Do people need to pay as much as you in order for their contributions even count?HoolaHoopMan

I would certainly like that, but no.

Like I said, just vocalizing my resentment on the matter.

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"][QUOTE="airshocker"]

I would certainly like that, but no.

Like I said, just vocalizing my resentment on the matter.

Nibroc420

If people worked hard, and put effort into finding jobs and getting educated, there'd be no need for welfareNibroc420

Indeed; it's remarkable how every so often, twice as many people in America become slacking bums. Why, during the 1930s, a full quarter of Americans became worthless slackers! Then they just arbitrarily decided to find jobs after the war began coming to a close.

Come on now. This statement is provably false and I'd wager that you know it.

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"] Well I guess I don't share your attitude. You seem to be caught up in a world of "Me, Me, Me". Your resentment more than likely stems from a massive misunderstanding of why people are actually on welfare and what their lives are actually like. I think it's plain as day when you claim people on welfare contribute NOTHING back and insist that anyone below you on the tax bracket is nothing more than a non-contributing bum. white_wolf922

Not everyone who is on welfare HAS to be on welfare, stop making it seem that way. If people worked hard, and put effort into finding jobs and getting educated, there'd be no need for welfare; except in cases where people are disabled to the point where they're physically unable to work.Nibroc420

Welfare, for the most part, requires getting/having a job, so it's not like most of the recipients are just sitting on their asses. I don't think you could really demonstrate in argument that people with minimum wage jobs are not hard working. It is perfectly possible for one to work hard at a job that is so lowing paying that they need government assistance.

As far as getting educated is concerned, that is easier said than done. While I do think that welfare recipients should attain higher education if they can, sometimes that's not viable due to the pressures of working several jobs and taking care of children. That's not even considering the fact that there are people that are simply not going to succeed in an academic environment.

You can say "there'd be no need for welfare if x, y, and z," all you want, but there will always be families out there that need it because there is always going to be people on the bottom of the economic scale and no amount of idealism is going to change that.

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]Not everyone who is on welfare HAS to be on welfare, stop making it seem that way. If people worked hard, and put effort into finding jobs and getting educated, there'd be no need for welfare; except in cases where people are disabled to the point where they're physically unable to work.GreySeal9

Welfare, for the most part, requires getting/having a job, so it's not like most of the recipients are just sitting on their asses. I don't think you could really demonstrate in argument that people with minimum wage jobs are not hard working. It is perfectly possible for one to work hard at a job that is so lowing paying that need assistance.

As far as getting educated is concerned, that is easier said than done. While I do think that welfare recipients should attain higher education if they can, sometimes that's not viable due to the pressures of working several jobs and taking care of children. That's not even considering the fact that there are people that are simply not going to succeed in an academic environment.

You can say "there'd be no need for welfare if x, y, and z," all you want, but there will always be families out there that need it because there is always going to be people on the bottom of the economic scale and no amount of idealism is going to change that.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]Not everyone who is on welfare HAS to be on welfare, stop making it seem that way. If people worked hard, and put effort into finding jobs and getting educated, there'd be no need for welfare; except in cases where people are disabled to the point where they're physically unable to work.Nibroc420

Welfare, for the most part, requires getting/having a job, so it's not like most of the recipients are just sitting on their asses. I don't think you could really demonstrate in argument that people with minimum wage jobs are not hard working. It is perfectly possible for one to work hard at a job that is so lowing paying that need assistance.

As far as getting educated is concerned, that is easier said than done. While I do think that welfare recipients should attain higher education if they can, sometimes that's not viable due to the pressures of working several jobs and taking care of children. That's not even considering the fact that there are people that are simply not going to succeed in an academic environment.

You can say "there'd be no need for welfare if x, y, and z," all you want, but there will always be families out there that need it because there is always going to be people on the bottom of the economic scale and no amount of idealism is going to change that.

There's some correlation between crime and delayed welfare payments:

http://www.portfolio.com/views/blogs/odd-numbers/2008/02/05/does-crime-rise-when-welfare-checks-are-delayed/

If you don't have some kind of safety net, what will the people at the bottom do? I doubt they'll just let themselves starve to death.

It's much cheaper to pay for welfare than it is to pay for incarceration, especially with our prison system as taxed as it is.

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]If people worked hard, and put effort into finding jobs and getting educated, there'd be no need for welfareGabuEx

Indeed; it's remarkable how every so often, twice as many people in America become slacking bums. Why, during the 1930s, a full quarter of Americans became worthless slackers! Then they just arbitrarily decided to find jobs after the war began coming to a close.

Come on now. This statement is provably false and I'd wager that you know it.

I love how this post was conveniently ignored by Nibroc.

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]Well you just said that people on welfare don't pay for any of their assistance....well they do by paying taxes. You may ultimately pay more in comparison but they still put some into the pool of money.airshocker

They don't, in my eyes, as long as they don't pay as much as I do.

I'm really just trying to make my resentment clear, as opposed to arguing any kind of point.

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]

[QUOTE="DarkGamer007"]

I do not know about you, but I value human life far over money. Medical costs are high in, especially for the elderly (which is a related albiet seperate topic of disccusion) and paying for them yourself would likely put a good portion of people into debt and make their lives more miserable without aid from programs like Medicare.

DarkGamer007

Well thats his choice, but IMO a child > old man.

Then donate to a charity if you want to save a child. You imply as if we cannot have programs like Medicare and care for the elderly and help children that are starving elsewhere. :|

Couldn't he just say donate to charity of you want to save the elderly?

For all the people who believe in Social Security and Medicare, how you put your money where your mouth is.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]I dont want those taxes going to pay for someone's comatose 112 year old grandmother because they want to keep her alive.Ace6301

Fortunately, each individual taxpayer does not get to earmark his tax dollars, or else nothing would ever get done.

I like to think that my tax money went to the exact bullet that killed Osama.

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Fortunately, each individual taxpayer does not get to earmark his tax dollars, or else nothing would ever get done.

SpartanMSU

I like to think that my tax money went to the exact bullet that killed Osama.