Obamacare a good thing or bad thing?

Depends on who you listen to imo. :roll:

One side says it kills jobs while the other says it doesn't.

Some say it takes away "muh freedomz" and some say it doesn't.

Both sides sound convincing. 

Obama cares :oops:. 10-03-2013

Obama cares :oops:. 10-03-2013

XVision84

:roll:

we'll see. 

Personally I'd much rather legislation get passed to stop hospitals and their suppliers for gouging consumers.

It costs 75,000 dollars for a hip replacement here and 14,000 for the same thing in Spain.

It's ridiculous, and that extra money is just going to the 1%.

[QUOTE="XVision84"]

Obama cares :oops:. 10-03-2013

Jebus213

:roll:

we'll see. 

Personally I'd much rather legislation get passed to stop hospitals and their suppliers for gouging consumers.

It costs 75,000 dollars for a hip replacement here and 14,000 for the same thing in Spain.

It's ridiculous, and that extra money is just going to the 1%.

MakeMeaSammitch

I think it's bullshit - all it did was increase my taxes by 1%, and I still have no affordable healthcare. Fightingfan

plz

In order to answer that question you'd first have to understand Obamacare and considering not even the senators who voted for it had time to read or understand it I doubt any one else has seriously tried to understand the bill and all it contains. I'm thankful it allows me to still be on my parents plan though, otherwise I'd be paying fines as I cannot afford healthcare premiums and there is not free option for myself. Although if I can't find a good paying job in the next few years I may end up being fined by Uncle Sam as well as not having healthcare. ferrari2001

[QUOTE="ferrari2001"]In order to answer that question you'd first have to understand Obamacare and considering not even the senators who voted for it had time to read or understand it I doubt any one else has seriously tried to understand the bill and all it contains. I'm thankful it allows me to still be on my parents plan though, otherwise I'd be paying fines as I cannot afford healthcare premiums and there is not free option for myself. Although if I can't find a good paying job in the next few years I may end up being fined by Uncle Sam as well as not having healthcare. Solaryellow

[QUOTE="ferrari2001"]In order to answer that question you'd first have to understand Obamacare and considering not even the senators who voted for it had time to read or understand it I doubt any one else has seriously tried to understand the bill and all it contains. I'm thankful it allows me to still be on my parents plan though, otherwise I'd be paying fines as I cannot afford healthcare premiums and there is not free option for myself. Although if I can't find a good paying job in the next few years I may end up being fined by Uncle Sam as well as not having healthcare. Solaryellow

Again, you're not even trying.

Or are you just that stupid?

Who knew paying for health insurance was a step up in maturity.

Or are you just that stupid?

 

 

Who knew paying for health insurance was a step up in maturity.

Jebus213

Does personal responsibility exist anymore or do we expect the government to continue pushing it off on others?

Obamacare is effing terrible, but the ACA is awesome. :)

It has some good parts and some bad parts

I. The Good

People get to stay on parents insurance until 26 (not sure where they came up with that number though, probably some mathematical formula. Too me 25 seems like a more "round" number).

Some people (I think about 7 million a guy on tv said, a lot less than was hoped for though) will be able to get insurance who otherwise wouldn't have been able to (although it is debatable whether health insurance is a good thing to have or whether its cheaper not to have it)

II. The Bad

discriminates against legal immigrants by prohibiting them from buying insurance through the exchanges

contains no conscience protection clauses

individual mandate

large deductibles before you even get insurance

large number of new taxes, including a medical device tax

sign in system appears to be having some glitches

prohibits physician-owned hospitals

people have less options

A lot of people will still be uninsured (about 30 million I think)

college health-care plans for students are more expensive, in some universities are canceled

wastes money on silly commercials and efforts to get celebrities to encourage enrollment in Obamacare exchanges

III. The Ugly

Could fund about 111,500 abortions

uses non-governmental organizations (including Planned Parenthood) as "navigators" to get people to sign up for the exchanges, but these navigators don't have to have their employees go through background checks. There is concern about these navigators having access to people's personal information.

Obamacare's datahub is up, but may be insecure and vulnerable to hackers. It contains people's social security numbers and medical information.

warning: I have not indepently verified the things I posted, so I don't know the exact details about these things.

 

Could fund about 111,500 abortions

uses non-governmental organizations (including Planned Parenthood) as "navigators" to get people to sign up for the exchanges, but these navigators don't have to have their employees go through background checks. There is concern about these navigators having access to people's personal information.

Obamacare's datahub is up, but may be insecure and vulnerable to hackers. It contains people's social security numbers and medical information.

 

warning: I have not indepently verified the things I posted, so I don't know the exact details about these things.

 

whipassmt

I'm not surprised. Most people who have discussed the ACA negatively don't often put up evidence for thei assuptions.

And frankly, I don't have tolerance for people who suggest put all aboritions in the same basket, because many of the "111,500" abortions could be medically necessary. 

By the way, how do you feel about the Pope wanting to change the Vatican process, suggesting that gay people shouldn't be judged, and the Church should be focusing on poverty? Helping poor people get medical insurance, and lead healthier lives sounds like something the Pope would support. Obama has even said that he likes what the Pope has been saying.

It has some good parts and some bad parts

I. The Good

People get to stay on parents insurance until 26 (not sure where they came up with that number though, probably some mathematical formula. Too me 25 seems like a more "round" number).

Some people (I think about 7 million a guy on tv said, a lot less than was hoped for though) will be able to get insurance who otherwise wouldn't have been able to (although it is debatable whether health insurance is a good thing to have or whether its cheaper not to have it)

II. The Bad

discriminates against legal immigrants by prohibiting them from buying insurance through the exchanges

contains no conscience protection clauses

individual mandate

large deductibles before you even get insurance

large number of new taxes, including a medical device tax

sign in system appears to be having some glitches

prohibits physician-owned hospitals

people have less options

A lot of people will still be uninsured (about 30 million I think)

college health-care plans for students are more expensive, in some universities are canceled

wastes money on silly commercials and efforts to get celebrities to encourage enrollment in Obamacare exchanges

III. The Ugly

Could fund about 111,500 abortions

uses non-governmental organizations (including Planned Parenthood) as "navigators" to get people to sign up for the exchanges, but these navigators don't have to have their employees go through background checks. There is concern about these navigators having access to people's personal information.

Obamacare's datahub is up, but may be insecure and vulnerable to hackers. It contains people's social security numbers and medical information.

 

warning: I have not indepently verified the things I posted, so I don't know the exact details about these things.

 

whipassmt

  honesty.    refreshing.

[QUOTE="whipassmt"]

Could fund about 111,500 abortions

uses non-governmental organizations (including Planned Parenthood) as "navigators" to get people to sign up for the exchanges, but these navigators don't have to have their employees go through background checks. There is concern about these navigators having access to people's personal information.

Obamacare's datahub is up, but may be insecure and vulnerable to hackers. It contains people's social security numbers and medical information.

warning: I have not indepently verified the things I posted, so I don't know the exact details about these things.

jimkabrhel

I'm not surprised. Most people who have discussed the ACA negatively don't often put up evidence for thei assuptions.

And frankly, I don't have tolerance for people who suggest put all aboritions in the same basket, because many of the "111,500" abortions could be medically necessary.

By the way, how do you feel about the Pope wanting to change the Vatican process, suggesting that gay people shouldn't be judged, and the Church should be focusing on poverty? Helping poor people get medical insurance, and lead healthier lives sounds like something the Pope would support. Obama has even said that he likes what the Pope has been saying.

Pope Francis has reiterated that Church teaching on abortion and gay marriage is clearly stated and that he opposes both (a reporter asked him his position on gay marriage and he replied "the position of the Church. I am a son of the Church"). His statement about not "judging gays" is nothing new, the Gospel does indeed warn against judging people and the Vatican has at times stated that we can't put all homosexuals in the same group (particularly we can't lump chaste homosexuals and sexually-active ones in the same group), the issue here is that many liberals have an overlybroad interpretation of the word "judging" or stretch it to the point that any moral standard is considered judgmental which is not what Jesus meant when he talked about judging. Stating that an action is immoral is not judging, it is not against Jesus' teachings.

As far as Obama liking what the Pope is saying that is fine. Though I wonder how Obama hears about what the Pope is saying? Does he here it through intermediaries like the secular media, in which case he may only be hearing part of what the Pope says? Or does he hear it from primary sources like the Vatican website or news.va?

 

III. The Ugly

Could fund about 111,500 abortions

 

 

whipassmt

.lamprey263

Most hospitals are for profit.  Those that aren't need to at the very least to remain afloat, that is, recover expenses.

Say a procedure has $100,000 in value for the equipment, doctors, staff, room, etc for an emergency room surgery.  By law, when you come in, regardless of ability to pay, the hospital must treat you to the best of their ability (in most cases/emergencies).  So if someone with no insurance comes in, they are getting that $100,000 valued procedure regardless of their ability to pay.

On the hospital's bottom line, that is $100,000 down the drain... They need their profit, or at the very least need to recover costs... How do they do that?  Well when someone else comes in for that procedure and others and actually can pay, the hospital charges them a premium... That $100,000 value is going to cost you $110,000, for example...

These numbers are figurative... I haven't the foggiest how much a medical procedure costs...

But that premium they charge, YOU are not paying for it, but your insurance company is... Like the hospital... They have a bottom line... So your more expensive procedure costs them more, which in turn means they charge EVERYONE more in order to recover that cost, invest, and turn a profit (all about dem profits)...

The whole point of Obamacare is that if EVERYONE has insurance... Less burden will be placed upon hospitals who are forced to treat regardless of ability to pay... Which means less burden is placed upon those who actually can pay... Which means less burden is placed upon the insurance companies of those who can pay... And thus medical procedure costsl and insurance in general decrease in price given said reduced burdens.

[QUOTE="lamprey263"].chaplainDMK

Most hospitals are for profit. Those that aren't need to at the very least to remain afloat, that is, recover expenses.

Say a procedure has $100,000 in value for the equipment, doctors, staff, room, etc for an emergency room surgery. By law, when you come in, regardless of ability to pay, the hospital must treat you to the best of their ability (in most cases/emergencies). So if someone with no insurance comes in, they are getting that $100,000 valued procedure regardless of their ability to pay.

On the hospital's bottom line, that is $100,000 down the drain... They need their profit, or at the very least need to recover costs... How do they do that? Well when someone else comes in for that procedure and others and actually can pay, the hospital charges them a premium... That $100,000 value is going to cost you $110,000, for example...

These numbers are figurative... I haven't the foggiest how much a medical procedure costs...

But that premium they charge, YOU are not paying for it, but your insurance company is... Like the hospital... They have a bottom line... So your more expensive procedure costs them more, which in turn means they charge EVERYONE more in order to recover that cost, invest, and turn a profit (all about dem profits)...

The whole point of Obamacare is that if EVERYONE has insurance... Less burden will be placed upon hospitals who are forced to treat regardless of ability to pay... Which means less burden is placed upon those who actually can pay... Which means less burden is placed upon the insurance companies of those who can pay... And thus medical procedure costsl and insurance in general decrease in price given said reduced burdens.

Squeets

[QUOTE="Squeets"]

Most hospitals are for profit. Those that aren't need to at the very least to remain afloat, that is, recover expenses.

Say a procedure has $100,000 in value for the equipment, doctors, staff, room, etc for an emergency room surgery. By law, when you come in, regardless of ability to pay, the hospital must treat you to the best of their ability (in most cases/emergencies). So if someone with no insurance comes in, they are getting that $100,000 valued procedure regardless of their ability to pay.

On the hospital's bottom line, that is $100,000 down the drain... They need their profit, or at the very least need to recover costs... How do they do that? Well when someone else comes in for that procedure and others and actually can pay, the hospital charges them a premium... That $100,000 value is going to cost you $110,000, for example...

These numbers are figurative... I haven't the foggiest how much a medical procedure costs...

But that premium they charge, YOU are not paying for it, but your insurance company is... Like the hospital... They have a bottom line... So your more expensive procedure costs them more, which in turn means they charge EVERYONE more in order to recover that cost, invest, and turn a profit (all about dem profits)...

The whole point of Obamacare is that if EVERYONE has insurance... Less burden will be placed upon hospitals who are forced to treat regardless of ability to pay... Which means less burden is placed upon those who actually can pay... Which means less burden is placed upon the insurance companies of those who can pay... And thus medical procedure costsl and insurance in general decrease in price given said reduced burdens.

whipassmt

Obviously not... I am simply arguing the point of the law... Eventually it will aim to do that, however... The public option isn't an end-all-be-all... It is simply an alternative to private options meant to keep prices low and competitive...  People seem to argue that this public option is free socialized healthcare for poor people, but these idiots fail to realize that free socialized healthcare for the poor already exists and has for quite some time as Medicaid... This is not that.  But what can I say... Idiots gonna idiot.

[QUOTE="lamprey263"].chaplainDMK

Well we needed to try something different because the way things were going an overnight hospital stay in the year 2020 was going to cost you a million dollars. lol

i don't think anyone can really tell yet if its a good thing or a bad thing. It's gunna take time to see if it plays out the way its supposed to. The republicans need to just let it happen and stop trying to introduce budgets that try and defund the ACA and just wait and see. If it doesn't work then we'll repeal it. And thats speaking as a republican.

[QUOTE="MakeMeaSammitch"]

we'll see.

Personally I'd much rather legislation get passed to stop hospitals and their suppliers for gouging consumers.

It costs 75,000 dollars for a hip replacement here and 14,000 for the same thing in Spain.

It's ridiculous, and that extra money is just going to the 1%.

ferrari2001

[QUOTE="Jebus213"]

Or are you just that stupid?

 

 

Who knew paying for health insurance was a step up in maturity.

Solaryellow

Does personal responsibility exist anymore or do we expect the government to continue pushing it off on others?

Give me a break.

This way of going about personal responsibility has never worked. It has always cost and hurt more.

<]

 

Give me a break.

 

This way of going about personal responsibility has never worked. It has always cost and hurt more.

Jebus213

A twenty some year old able-bodied person who can't or won't do for themselves is pathetic and embarrassing.

Anyone answering good either doesnt have a job or is in their late 40's.

I am not saying all aspects of Obamacare is bad, but how they screwed the working class in their 20's and 30's is.  

The sheer fact that they are ripping off the younger working class to subsidize the program for everyone else is complete BS.  What is funny is that the government is counting on younger people to sign up for it.  The working class and those who can see through the smoke in mirrors won't sign up for it.  I bet the government is going to be scrambling here in a couple years when the younger working class tells them to go F themselves.  

HA!  Im not... nooooo wayyy.  If youre a working class person under the age of 40 I wouldnt either.. go OUT of your way to avoid it.  I absolutely refuse to be the piggy bank for the socialist agenda.  

Mixed bag. It's a good thing because health care reform in this country was a long time coming.

It's a step in the right direction, it's getting the ball moving. When more people have to start paying for coverage and shop around for insurance, then maybe we can legitimately get to the true root of the problems. As another poster stated, the providers. Our medical professionals and providers charge excessively higher fees and prices than like-wise providers anywhere else that it has caused our healthcare to become unaffordable.

[QUOTE="Jebus213"]<]

 

Give me a break.

 

This way of going about personal responsibility has never worked. It has always cost and hurt more.

Solaryellow

A twenty some year old able-bodied person who can't or won't do for themselves is pathetic and embarrassing.

Most of your arguments on this board have been based on generalizations, old bigoted beliefs, and anecdotal evidence. You want me to take you seriously and answer everything you ask me?

Yeah, no. I'd rather keep trolling you.

Listening to a few of the morons on here it is perfectly acceptable to push responsibility on everyone else. Right?Solaryellow

Most of your arguments on this board have been based on generalizations, old bigoted beliefs, and anecdotal evidence. You want me to take you seriously and answer everything you ask me?

Yeah, no. I'd rather keep trolling you.

Jebus213

The Liberal solution to everything is more government. More government means more spending (either borrowing or taxing) and more shifting of responsibility. The government has done one hell of a job during the past few decades, right? Making people do for themselves or work for what they want and need is absolutely terrifying these days.

Listening to a few of the morons on here it is perfectly acceptable to push responsibility on everyone else. Right?Solaryellow

[QUOTE="Solaryellow"]Listening to a few of the morons on here it is perfectly acceptable to push responsibility on everyone else. Right?mulalatum

Depends on who you listen to imo. :roll:

 

One side says it kills jobs while the other says it doesn't.

 

Some say it takes away "muh freedomz" and some say it doesn't.

 

Both sides sound convincing. 

Jebus213

:lol:

life is funny.

anyway i expect people to forget it is dirty dignity robbing foreigner loving devil worshiping socialism just like they did with social security and medicare.

[QUOTE="Jebus213"]

Depends on who you listen to imo. :roll:

 

One side says it kills jobs while the other says it doesn't.

 

Some say it takes away "muh freedomz" and some say it doesn't.

 

Both sides sound convincing. 

Riverwolf007

:lol:

life is funny.

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

[QUOTE="Jebus213"]

Depends on who you listen to imo. :roll:

 

One side says it kills jobs while the other says it doesn't.

 

Some say it takes away "muh freedomz" and some say it doesn't.

 

Both sides sound convincing. 

KC_Hokie

:lol:

life is funny.

a little vacation.

so they can sit back and relax a bit as they starve and their power gets shut off and their homes foreclosed on because they have no money.

golly! how wonderful for them to have a nice vacation.

lol, you can't be serious with this shyt. can you? 

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]lol, this makes me laugh because i was thinking of the "MER! it kills jobs!" "let's shut down the govt and put 800,000 people out of work to protest it killing jobs!"

:lol:

life is funny.

Riverwolf007

a little vacation.

so they can set back and relax a bit as they starve and their power gets shut off and their homes forclosed on because thay have no money.

golly! how wonderful for them to have a nice vacation.

lol, you can't be serious with this shyt. can you? 

And more than likely they'll all get paid retroactively when it's over.

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"] They're basically just on vacation. No one lost their job. KC_Hokie

a little vacation.

so they can set back and relax a bit as they starve and their power gets shut off and their homes forclosed on because thay have no money.

golly! how wonderful for them to have a nice vacation.

lol, you can't be serious with this shyt. can you? 

And more than likely they'll all get paid retroactively when it's over.

they didn't work.

conservatives need to make up their minds are they horrified of our imminent socialist state or are they starting it.

we are just going to hand people that did not go to work a check?

really?