Is it possible to loss fat and build muscle simultaneously?

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Golden_Ace

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#1 Golden_Ace
Member since 2011 • 118 Posts

Hey OT :)

I have been doing some research on the above topic. There seems to be very mixed views on the matter. I'm an ectomorph but I want to lose my "protective layer" over my abs as well as build muscle.

Some say that it's impossible and other say that it is certainly possible. Have you done it? If so then what's the best in achieving it?

Thanks

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dodgerblue13

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#2 dodgerblue13
Member since 2004 • 20846 Posts
You can't lose fat over your abs without losing fat everywhere. Spot reduction is a myth and ab machines are garbage if not used correctly (i.e. as a part of a workout regimen and a worthwhile diet). The best way to achieve it? Leangains. Look up the Leangains guide. Martin knows his stuff and there are a decent number of sites/forums (especially on Reddit) that discuss his method.
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Johnny_Rock

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#4 Johnny_Rock
Member since 2002 • 40314 Posts

Yes. Eat properly and exercise effectively. thegerg

/thread

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StealthMonkey4

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#5 StealthMonkey4
Member since 2009 • 7434 Posts

To get a six pack, it's more about your diet than anything, though exercise helps too, do mostly cardio since you're trying to lose fat rather than build ab muscles.

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Pirate700

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#6 Pirate700
Member since 2008 • 46465 Posts

You SHOULD be losing fat (if you have it to lose) while gaining muscle. Muscle burns fat.

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Baconbits2004

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#7 Baconbits2004
Member since 2009 • 12602 Posts
Mostly depends on your diet. If you're working out enough to gain muscle you'll probably be taking in more calories than you're used too. This could make you bulk up in more ways than one.
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KittyKat

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#8 KittyKat
Member since 2002 • 26381 Posts

You SHOULD be losing fat (if you have it to lose) while gaining muscle. Muscle burns fat.

Pirate700
This. If you mean spot reduction, that isn't possible... but the simple act of working out burns fat and builds muscle.
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Elraptor

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#9 Elraptor
Member since 2004 • 30966 Posts
Maybe combine cardio and resistance training?
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Reed_Bowie

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#10 Reed_Bowie
Member since 2011 • 506 Posts
I didn't know Mac had a gamespot account!
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KittyKat

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#11 KittyKat
Member since 2002 • 26381 Posts
Maybe combine cardio and resistance training?Elraptor
Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated.
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Baconbits2004

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#12 Baconbits2004
Member since 2009 • 12602 Posts
I didn't know Mac had a gamespot account! Reed_Bowie
Say what now? o.o
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achilles614

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#13 achilles614
Member since 2005 • 5310 Posts
While you can it's already hard enough for most people to do one or the other, so I usually say stick to one or the other as your focus (fat-loss or muscle gain). That's why people do the tried and true bulk/cut cycles. The way I handle it myself is just lift heavy and often and eat plenty for recovery. If I start to gain more fat then I want I either eat less or lift more. I can't speak from personal experience on losing fat while building muscle mostly because I don't have too much fat to lose so I never bother.
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The_Zoid

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#14 The_Zoid
Member since 2006 • 59984 Posts

You can't lose fat over your abs without losing fat everywhere. Spot reduction is a myth and ab machines are garbage if not used correctly (i.e. as a part of a workout regimen and a worthwhile diet). The best way to achieve it? Leangains. Look up the Leangains guide. Martin knows his stuff and there are a decent number of sites/forums (especially on Reddit) that discuss his method.dodgerblue13
This.
While you can it's already hard enough for most people to do one or the other, so I usually say stick to one or the other as your focus (fat-loss or muscle gain). That's why people do the tried and true bulk/cut cycles. The way I handle it myself is just lift heavy and often and eat plenty for recovery. If I start to gain more fat then I want I either eat less or lift more. I can't speak from personal experience on losing fat while building muscle mostly because I don't have too much fat to lose so I never bother.achilles614
And this. Also, muscle burns about ~6cal/lb. Not quite the fat scorching inferno we're led to believe. Believe you me OP when I say trying to do both at the same time is a wheel spinning and losing proposition. Recomposition is hard and requires a lot of patience. If you truly want to though the leangains approach is about the best you could do.

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achilles614

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#15 achilles614
Member since 2005 • 5310 Posts
Also, as a fellow ectomorph I'll say this, it is always in our best interest to build muscle before losing the little fat on the abs. Your non-visible six-pack isn't the problem it's that you're probably 20lbs underweight! (another way to put it).
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branketra

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#16 branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts

You can't lose fat over your abs without losing fat everywhere. Spot reduction is a myth and ab machines are garbage if not used correctly (i.e. as a part of a workout regimen and a worthwhile diet).dodgerblue13
Based on personal experience, I agree with this. Once you get a few things down, your body will start to eat the fat without much thought. I'm not sure if the order is absolute, but I did it this way. Ideally, eat healthy and as much as if you're growing, because you will be. However, I didn't have that luxury, so I took what I could as long as it wasn't just chips and sweets. Without a good diet, there can be very little physical progress. Though, there are times when you cut weight, but I'll get to that later. Alright, so the first thing to do is strengthen your heart. I did this by doing intense training regimens over long hours. I prefer martial arts, running and hiking, but swimming and biking work, too. After a while, you'll start to notice your heart doesn't feel strained doing tougher workouts. After that, start doing pushups, situps, pullups, lunges. Get a bit of weight when you do each of these. I admit, I used weights in the first phase. Just a weighted vest (25lbs), leg weights (started at five lbs and worked my weigh up to 20 lbs/leg), and wrist (start at 2.5 lbs went up to 10 lbs/wrist). Work your way up to at least 1000 pushups and 1000 situps a day. If you are able to handle the workout 4-5 times a week, you've got it down. The last thing to do here is weight training. Go to the gym and start lifting. Squat, deadlift, bench press. Those should be the primary exercises. You can incorporate others exercises in or only do those, but they are the best. If you have never worked out in a gym before, you'll probably gain some muscle and increase the amount of weight you're lifting quickly.A while after that initial phase in the gym, if you keep at it, you have muscles all over and the fat essentially have no place to hide.

Earlier I mentioned cutting weight. That's a part of training regimens of athletes like martial artists and bodybuilders who have to meet a certain weight requirement. For me, it usually involves decreasing the amount of water I take in, as I keep a lot in to maintain a healthy body. If you aren't doing that, it's really not that necessary. Just make sure you have protein for muscles and vitamins and minerals to keep your body working. I hope this helps. It worked for me.

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Serraph105

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#17 Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 36040 Posts

scientifically speaking no it doesn't actually work that way, one will happen before the other. From a practicality standpoint yeah you can do that, just know that people are wrong when they say weight lifting will disolve fat into muscle from a scientific point of view.

Will that actually matter? No because it pretty much appears that that is exactly what is happening.

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Jackc8

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#18 Jackc8
Member since 2007 • 8515 Posts

Maybe for an endomorph wanting to lose 75 lbs. They could easily find a daily daily caloric intake level that would provide plenty of nutrition for muscle growth yet allow them to burn off fat at the same time. But for an ectomorph who just wants to lose a few pounds? I think it would be really tough to pull that off. You really need to cut your caloric intake down to the point where you're losing weight, and although you can certainly maintain the vast majority of your muscle mass while doing that, I think you'd have a pretty tough time actually trying to build muscle and lose fat at the same time.

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deactivated-6127ced9bcba0

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#19 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

You burn fat as you gain muscle.

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dodgerblue13

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#20 dodgerblue13
Member since 2004 • 20846 Posts
[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

You SHOULD be losing fat (if you have it to lose) while gaining muscle. Muscle burns fat.

KittyKat
This. If you mean spot reduction, that isn't possible... but the simple act of working out burns fat and builds muscle.

There are plenty of powerlifters that have lots of muscle under layers of fat. Being strong or having a lot of muscle won't magically eliminate fat. Therefore, it's quite possible to gain muscle and fat simultaneously. In fact, this is often the case for people who overeat or eat poorly when they start weightlifting. Generally they assume they need lots of protein to repair muscle they tore during lifting. What typically happens here is people chug protein drinks and eat their weight in protein but don't really lift hard enough to warrant the caloric excess. Similarly, these people tend to overeat on rest days which will increase fat. I'm not necessarily saying you two are wrong, but it's this (rather) misguided simplification that causes poor results in terms of reducing fat while building muscle.
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Fightingfan

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#21 Fightingfan
Member since 2010 • 38011 Posts

[QUOTE="thegerg"]Yes. Eat properly and exercise effectively. Johnny_Rock

/thread

Ditto, but it's impossible to gain muscle without gaining fat, when you're lean. You can't keep a 6pack and gain 12 pounds of muscle in a year.
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dodgerblue13

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#22 dodgerblue13
Member since 2004 • 20846 Posts
Maybe combine cardio and resistance training?Elraptor
Basically, cardio depletes muscle and inhibits muscle gain. See: marathon runners.
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dodgerblue13

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#23 dodgerblue13
Member since 2004 • 20846 Posts
Yes. Eat properly and exercise effectively. thegerg
What constitutes as effective exercise? I'd just like to hear your opinion on this.
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#24 The_Zoid
Member since 2006 • 59984 Posts
Just my opinion, but I believe the somatotypes of ecto, meso, and endo are completely fictional. Ecto- Eats like a little "you know what", usually trains in a way that gets them nowhere Meso- Eats within normal range for their activity level and generally more genetically gifted Endo- Overeats without much thought, doesn't move a whole lot, wonders why they're so fat Calorie deficits and surpluses work for everyone, you will always gain weight eating more than you burn, you will always lose it eating less. Partitioning is a different issue, more decided by macronutrient ratios and training protocols. But the energy balance equation always trumps all.
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#25 The_Zoid
Member since 2006 • 59984 Posts
[QUOTE="Elraptor"]Maybe combine cardio and resistance training?dodgerblue13
Basically, cardio depletes muscle and inhibits muscle gain. See: marathon runners.

To a point anyway. To paraphrase Lyle McDonald: Someone doing cardio while trying to maximize strength and muscle gains, isn't doing it optimally.
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dodgerblue13

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#26 dodgerblue13
Member since 2004 • 20846 Posts
Calorie deficits and surpluses work for everyone, you will always gain weight eating more than you burn, you will always lose it eating less. Partitioning is a different issue, more decided by macronutrient ratios and training protocols. But the energy balance equation always trumps all.The_Zoid
I agree. I think caloric deficit is the only surefire way to lose "weight". That could be muscle or it could be fat depending. However, it doesn't take much to eat decently well and that has been enough for me to lose fat. I know I could divvy up macros very strictly and exponentially increase my results, but the thought of making my diet that difficult is a turn-off. I'm glad I decided to not complicate things. Results are somewhat slow but are still steady and noticeable.
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#27 dodgerblue13
Member since 2004 • 20846 Posts
[QUOTE="dodgerblue13"][QUOTE="Elraptor"]Maybe combine cardio and resistance training?The_Zoid
Basically, cardio depletes muscle and inhibits muscle gain. See: marathon runners.

To a point anyway. To paraphrase Lyle McDonald: Someone doing cardio while trying to maximize strength and muscle gains, isn't doing it optimally.

Yep. It really is one or the other if your goal is to reach the pinnacle of either. That being said, there is plenty of middle ground. However if you want to deadlift 600, your cardio isn't going to be world-class.
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#28 The_Zoid
Member since 2006 • 59984 Posts
[QUOTE="dodgerblue13"] I agree. I think caloric deficit is the only surefire way to lose "weight". That could be muscle or it could be fat depending. However, it doesn't take much to eat decently well and that has been enough for me to lose fat. I know I could divvy up macros very strictly and exponentially increase my results, but the thought of making my diet that difficult is a turn-off. I'm glad I decided to not complicate things. Results are somewhat slow but are still steady and noticeable.

And really you'd have to have some pretty screwy food choices to not see decent results on a deficit. Just eat a little less, meet your protein and essential fatty acid needs and that's really all there is to it. Unless half your calories are coming from cake or soda or something stupid like that, it will work fine.
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dodgerblue13

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#29 dodgerblue13
Member since 2004 • 20846 Posts
And really you'd have to have some pretty screwy food choices to not see decent results on a deficit. Just eat a little less, meet your protein and essential fatty acid needs and that's really all there is to it. Unless half your calories are coming from cake or soda or something stupid like that, it will work fine.The_Zoid
This is a story about a nutrition professor shedding 27 pounds in 10 weeks on a junk food diet. He'd eat basically snack cakes, Oreos, Doritos, etc. each day with just a small amount of vegetables and vitamins to make sure he got enough nutrients. But the point is: even if you eat junk, you lose weight if you keep a deficit. Health will diminish if people only eat junk, but if people are actually conscious about caloric intake, I'd bet they choose filling and worthwhile foods to fill out their calories for a day.
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The_Zoid

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#30 The_Zoid
Member since 2006 • 59984 Posts
Indeed. People like him get it. Those kinds of foods can be eaten everyday, in moderation of course. But food NAMES are not the causation of anything.
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deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51

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#31 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts

Yes it is. It's a little tricky because when you are losing fat, you are in sense in a catabolic state.

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JIT93

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#32 JIT93
Member since 2007 • 5590 Posts
[QUOTE="Elraptor"]Maybe combine cardio and resistance training?dodgerblue13
Basically, cardio depletes muscle and inhibits muscle gain. See: marathon runners.

What if you eat protein right after? Doesn't it ensure you at only lose fat?
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#33 The_Zoid
Member since 2006 • 59984 Posts
[QUOTE="dodgerblue13"][QUOTE="Elraptor"]Maybe combine cardio and resistance training?JIT93
Basically, cardio depletes muscle and inhibits muscle gain. See: marathon runners.

What if you eat protein right after? Doesn't it ensure you at only lose fat?

If we had that kind of control over partitioning we'd all look like Arnold. When losing weight regardless of cardio or not there will be a loss of lean body mass. Calories taken in to recover from cardio take away from optimal protein synthesis and muscle repair.
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achilles614

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#34 achilles614
Member since 2005 • 5310 Posts
If we had that kind of control over partitioning we'd all look like Arnold. When losing weight regardless of cardio or not there will be a loss of lean body mass. Calories taken in to recover from cardio take away from optimal protein synthesis and muscle repair.The_Zoid
I do my cardio for my heart, I use calorie control and strength training for weight management. Just saying, cardio has it's place for me, but it's not weight loss :P
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#35 DivergeUnify
Member since 2007 • 15150 Posts
If you're building muscle, and not eating lots of food, you'll be losing fat. If you eat a lot while working out, you're not going to have to break down fat for energy
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#36 Penguinchow
Member since 2006 • 1629 Posts
Since summer i've put on 15 pounds of muscle and a couple of fat. I kickbox and do BJJ 3 times a week. If you're going to eat the stuff that helps pack on muscle it's certainly hard not to put on a little fat :-/
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#37 BossPerson
Member since 2011 • 9177 Posts

You burn fat as you gain muscle.

airshocker

^this

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#38 The_Gaming_Baby
Member since 2010 • 6425 Posts

Hey OT :)

I have been doing some research on the above topic. There seems to be very mixed views on the matter. I'm an ectomorph but I want to lose my "protective layer" over my abs as well as build muscle.

Some say that it's impossible and other say that it is certainly possible. Have you done it? If so then what's the best in achieving it?

Thanks

Golden_Ace
You can lose fat and gain muscle. But you can't just pick where you want fat to be removed. It'll disappear from the area it choose to. Shape of your body will determine this.
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#39 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts
yes, and if youre not pigging out after your workouts it should be the natural order unless you have already planed and in that case your athletic skillz are already mad good.