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shellcase86

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#51 shellcase86
Member since 2012 • 6853 Posts

Never got why some churches do it, it's not a biblical practice and a baby can't make a conscious decision to become a Christian or know what the water baptism is supposed to symbolizeStarchaser187

Good point. That's why a good portion of Christian sects don't do it. It defeats the purpose behind the practice. Jesus wasn't baptized until he was a grown man. Baptism is meant to be a choice, not forced onto an unknowing child.

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theone86

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#52 theone86
Member since 2003 • 22669 Posts

On the one hand, it is just some stupid water and the kid has no idea it's happening.  On the other it does sort of reinforce this idea that religious groups need to ground children in the religion before they ever get a chance to make a decision on the matter.  That being said, I have a much bigger problem with the sort of indoctrination that goes on when the children are capable of rational thinking than with some ritual people think will send dead babies to heaven.  Religious schools teaching religion in the same manner as history bothers me a hell of a lot more.

I will also say that I don't really find what the TC suggested to be much better.  My cousins are Baptists so they don't get baptized until they "accept Christ."  It sounds good in theory, but in reality you still get all the normal indoctrination and they're usually not even adolescents when they accept Christ anyways, so it's not like they're much more prepared to make a decision like that.

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ferrari2001

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#53 ferrari2001
Member since 2008 • 17772 Posts
Never got why some churches do it, it's not a biblical practice and a baby can't make a conscious decision to become a Christian or know what the water baptism is supposed to symbolizeStarchaser187
Have you ever read the New Testament, people get baptized all the time. John the Baptism, Baptism of the 5000 etc. It's definitely in the bible.
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Amvis

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#54 Amvis
Member since 2007 • 510 Posts

[QUOTE="Starchaser187"]Never got why some churches do it, it's not a biblical practice and a baby can't make a conscious decision to become a Christian or know what the water baptism is supposed to symbolizeferrari2001
Have you ever read the New Testament, people get baptized all the time. John the Baptism, Baptism of the 5000 etc. It's definitely in the bible.

In the Eastern Orthodox Church, which I have personal interest in, baptism and christening occur usually at the same time: either when one converts, or upon an infant. It used to be more popular in the early church for many Christians to simply wait until their deathbed until baptism because it was viewed as the ultimate sign of redemption as it cleansed the individual from all their sins. Emperor Constantine the Great of the Roman Empire opted for this sort of baptism.

In Introducing The Orthodox Church: Its Faith and Life by Anthony M. Coniaris, infant baptism is described as the following:

"We bring infants to baptism not because they believe but in order that they might believe. Baptism is like the planting of the seed of faith in the human soul. Nourished and fed by Christian training, or catechesis, in the family and in the church school, the seed of faith will grow to produce a mature Christian.

"Baptism introduces the child to the love of God and opens him to the grace of the Holy Spirit. These are great riches even if the child is unaware of them at the beginning. To deny a child baptism is to deprive him of this inner grace that is so necessary to Christian growth."

Saint John of Chrysostom also mentioned in the 4th Century AD the following:

"For this reason we baptize children, although they have no sins...in order to confer upon them sanctification, adoption, inheritance...that they may be members of Christ and become the abode of the Holy Spirit."

So essentially, I think people should realize something, unlike in many Protestant churches, baptism is not necessarily a statement of belief for the rest of Christianity. Sure, if you're an adult it acts also as a statement of belief. But ultimately, the core purpose of baptism is to confer grace. So to deny infants such would run in direct contradiction to Matthew 19:14 where Christ said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, ... and don't forbid them to come to me; for the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to ones like these."

I know that I have not provided many secular answers to this question, but I felt that the theology behind infant baptism and baptism in general should be explained. That way we can at least fully understand the subject to which is being debated.