Hamas has a base underneath a hospital?

To me, it sounds unreal. I saw that sort of thing in a Hong Kong flick, Hard Boiled. A thirty minute shootout in a hospital that has a bad guys hideout hidden inside.

Thoughts on the "intel"?

I think everyone knew this already. They use the Palestinians as human shields, prevent civilians from leaving war zones, 40% of their rockets fail and hit their own people, and they absolutely hide in civilian areas. This is why Israel can’t ignore targets. Hana’s is going to hide anywhere it can.

I think it's possible. Still doesn't justify the targeting of civilian targets. Same as Hamas randomly killing civilians and eventually killing some military personnel doesn't justify nothing they've done.

I'm always against the targeting of civilians. Be it in Gaza, Kiev, Dresden, Stalingrad or Hiroshima, those who target civilians deserved to be hanged for it. Military or Politicians? Go for it.

Every Hamas base in inside or below a civilian building, so you are saying that Israel should leave them alone and allow them to do whatever the **** they want? Not that the civilians don't know about Hamas hiding amongst them, which makes them at the very least indifferent to the danger to themselves and their kids, and more likely complicit in passive support.

@rmpumper:

Damn, those Palestinians staying at hospitals giving birth, doing chem or recovering from severe injuries. They're basically terrorists. Bomb them! Right?

Like Israelis are complicit with the state of Israel so they deserve to get killed or made hostage? Is that the logic we're going for? Seems like criminals on both sides actually think alike.

There is zero evidence for Israel's claim. It's just an excuse to bomb yet another hospital.

The Israel Defence Force, however, does indeed locate its bases next to hospitals and other civilian infrastructure.

Leaked Israeli documents show that Israel's plan is to ethnically cleanse Gaza and drive the Palestinians out to the Sinai desert in Egypt. This is why Israel are deliberately targeting civilian infrastructure such as hospitals, schools, mosques and churches. This falls under the international legal definition of genocide.

@Jag85: Egypt doesn't want them.

A solution I would like to see someone put forth for discussion would be Gaza and West Bank becoming autonomous regions of Egypt and Jordan respectively.

They have tunnels all over Gaza, probably more for just getting around. Having one under a hospital is probably strategic, it's a less likely target to be bombed. They obviously have no issue using civilians as human shields because they can turn that animosity around on their enemies when they do draw fire that takes its toll on civilians.

Unfortunately in situations like this ground forces must be deployed in greater numbers. Positive identification of threat and non violent subduing of innocents is a necessity. Cowards hide behind women and children and that's exactly what most terrorists are.

The twisted game they are playing is nothing new. Hide in and among the civilian populous and then cry foul play after an arms depot or missile silo is hit since they surround them with non combants.

The very same thing was extremely common place while I was in Iraq. They need to send in the ground troops and systematically clear each building room by room. Take a lot in for questioning to locate the hot spots and cut the head off the snake.

Tunnels under cities are a lot more common than you would think for these pockets of terrorism. Most don't know that under Baghdad and Fallujah there were nearly as many tunnels underground as roads above ground.

remember hamas, protect your tanks and planes too!

What really happened on 7th October?

October 7 testimonies reveal Israel’s military ‘shelling’ Israeli citizens with tanks, missiles

Israel’s military received orders to shell Israeli homes and even their own bases as they were overwhelmed by Hamas militants on October 7. How many Israeli citizens said to have been “burned alive” were actually killed by friendly fire?

Several new testimonies by Israeli witnesses to the October 7 Hamas surprise attack on southern Israel adds to growing evidence that the Israeli military killed its own citizens as they fought to neutralize Palestinian gunmen.

Tuval Escapa, a member of the security team for Kibbutz Be’eri, set up a hotline to coordinate between kibbutz residents and the Israeli army. He told the Israeli newspaper Haaretz that as desperation began to set in, “the commanders in the field made difficult decisions – including shelling houses on their occupants in order to eliminate the terrorists along with the hostages.”

A separate report published in Haaretz noted that the Israeli military was “compelled to request an aerial strike” against its own facility inside the Erez Crossing to Gaza “in order to repulse the terrorists” who had seized control. That base was filled with Israeli Civil Administration officers and soldiers at the time.

These reports indicate that orders came down from the military’s high command to attack homes and and other areas inside Israel, even at the cost of many Israeli lives.

An Israeli woman named Yasmin Porat confirmed in an interview with Israel Radio that the military “undoubtedly” killed numerous Israeli noncombatants during gun battles with Hamas militants on October 7. “They eliminated everyone, including the hostages,” she stated, referring to Israeli special forces.

As David Sheen and Ali Abunimah reported in Electronic Intifada, Porat described “very, very heavy crossfire” and Israeli tank shelling, which led to many casualties among Israelis.

While being held by the Hamas gunmen, Porat recalled, “They did not abuse us. We were treated very humanely… No one treated us violently.”

She added, “The objective was to kidnap us to Gaza, not to murder us.”

According to Haaretz, the army was only able to restore control over Be’eri after admittedly “shelling” the homes of Israelis who had been taken captive. “The price was terrible: at least 112 Be’eri residents were killed,” the paper chronicled. “Others were kidnapped. Yesterday, 11 days after the massacre, the bodies of a mother and her son were discovered in one of the destroyed houses. It is believed that more bodies are still lying in the rubble.”

Much of the shelling in Be’eri was carried out by Israeli tank crews. As a reporter for the Israeli Foreign Ministry-sponsored outlet i24 noted during a visit to Be’eri, “small and quaint homes [were] bombarded or destroyed,” and “well-maintained lawns [were] ripped up by the tracks of an armored vehicle, perhaps a tank.”

Apache attack helicopters also figured heavily in the Israeli military’s response on October 7. Pilots have told Israeli media they scrambled to the battlefield without any intelligence, unable to differentiate between Hamas fighters and Israeli noncombatants, and yet determined to “empty the belly” of their war machines. “I find myself in a dilemma as to what to shoot at, because there are so many of them,” one Apache pilot commented.

@Jag85: Where else do you expect Israel to keep their military base? In the middle of the ocean?

There’s always a limit to how far away you can keep your military base from civilian buildings. But to have them literally inside or underneath a civilian building? Different story.

Either way, Israel is more humane than Hamas.

@lavamelon:

Israel has presented zero evidence so far that Hamas military bases are inside or under civilian buildings. Those are unsubstantiated claims. What is a substantiated fact is that Israeli military bases are located in civilian areas.

Objectively, Israel is far more inhumane than Hamas. Israel has mass-murdered a hundred-fold more civilians and engaged in a long history of ethnic cleansing since its foundation by Zionist terrorists in 1948. When you brutalize generations of Palestinian children and murder their families, then don't do a surprised Pikachu face if some of those kids grow up to seek vengeance.

@Jag85: "Objectively, Israel is far more inhumane than Hamas."

Just admit it, you are simpin' hard for the Hamas. You are drooling and tripping over your feet for them.

There are tunnels everywhere in Gaza. Hamas runs the hospital administration.

Of course there is a tunnel to the main hospital if for no other reason than to provide a convenient way to take an injured Hamas operative/fighter to medical aid without fear of interdiction.

They would be morons not to have a tunnel to the main hospital.

Also, every single Hamas location is built to be immediately beside or in civilian infrastructure. Again, they would be morons to have separate locations because that would stick out like a sore thumb. Terrorists hide within the civilian infrastructure because it is their best defense.

However, all of the above is essentially moot because Gaza is one of the most densely populated places on earth; therefore, it would be impossible to build Hamas bases away from civilian infrastructure even if they were dumb enough to want to do so.

Just like it is impossible for civilians living there not to know of the existence of such bases. It would be like living in the projects in a major city and not knowing about the existence of gangs and the drug trade.

@statisticalpc:

It's an objective statement grounded in logic and data. Israel have mass-murdered a hundred-fold more civilians, so they are therefore objectively far more inhumane.

Just admit you're a simp for Israel. You are sucking and riding hard for them.

I wouldn't put it past Hamas to do this, but I must say this doesn't mean Israel has the right to bomb said hospital. In fact the rules of war set forth specifically say that just because one side puts civilians at risk, does not mean it's OK for the other side to do it (which is fair, because then we just get in a race to the bottom and I'd like to think there are good guys, even in war).

Putting a military base under a hospital is a war crime. Bombing a hospital is a war crime because they are not military targets. Once munitions are placed in a hospital or they are used for military operations they then become a military target. Which is why it is a war crime to use a hospital for military purposes. This is just one of the many war crimes Hamas has commited.

I never said it wasn't a war crime.

What I said is that if side A in a conflict commits a war crime, it doesn't mean side B of the conflict gets permission to also commit war crimes.

I don't believe this makes the hospital a legit military target if it has more or less been taken as a hostage. Additionally, the international rules of war that nations have agreed to follow state that hospitals are not valid targets.

Hamas is clearly the bad guy here, I'm not making excuses for them...I'm just saying that Israel needs to be "the bigger person" here and follow the rules, even if Hamas is not.

Norwegian doctor who has worked at Gaza's Al-Shifa Hospital for 16 years debunks Israel's propaganda that it's being used as a Hamas base:

Yesterday, as I finished my playthrough of Metal Gear, I could have...

1. Started recording during the boomerang-throwing boss hiding between three hostages, as Jennifer calls and tells you that if you shoot her husband/brother she won't speak to you anymore.

2. Shot a bunch of grenades at the boss and three hostages.

3. Uploaded the video and called it "Israel plays Metal Gear."

I'm so mad at myself.

Some major Hamas propaganda in here.

@Jag85: Whoa, don't conflate your Hamas fantasies with my statements.

Israel simps:

@Jag85: What's it like rooting for the losing team?

Ah, the usual Hamas bogeymen propaganda from unhinged Israeli genocide apologists...

How Israel Helped to Spawn Hamas

"Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel's creation," says Mr. Cohen, a Tunisian-born Jew who worked in Gaza for more than two decades. Responsible for religious affairs in the region until 1994, Mr. Cohen watched the Islamist movement take shape, muscle aside secular Palestinian rivals and then morph into what is today Hamas, a militant group that is sworn to Israel's destruction.

Instead of trying to curb Gaza's Islamists from the outset, says Mr. Cohen, Israel for years tolerated and, in some cases, encouraged them as a counterweight to the secular nationalists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and its dominant faction, Yasser Arafat's Fatah. Israel cooperated with a crippled, half-blind cleric named Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, even as he was laying the foundations for what would become Hamas.

@Jag85: Still pedaling that fallacy.