Grammar: Do you say "my family is coming to town" or "my family a

With words like family/audience/army/group/public, do you use the plural form of the verb or the singular form?
Its acceptable to say both but which do you prefer?

Would you say
The crowd was noisy/The crowd were noisy
The general public is stupid/The general public are stupid
The army is recruiting in town/The army are recruiting in town

?

My family is coming to town because it sounds correct :?

"My family IS coming to town". Family is a singular word. Families would be "are".

This is why I hate English grammar. It seems entirely too unnecessarily complicated.

I use 'is'. Family/Army/etc specify ONE group so use of'is' is appropriate.

This is why I hate English grammar. It seems entirely too unnecessarily complicated.

CammiTac

"My family IS coming to town". Family is a singular word. Families would be "are".

Pirate700

Both are right. The singular is probably more conventional for talking about the group as a whole, whereas the plural is more often used when we're thinking about the various individuals, if that distinction makes sense. jimmyjammer69

No, if we are talking about standard written Englishand not dialects then no. Your construction of the sentence dictates the word you use.If you construct the sentence:

Members of my family are coming to town. -Use of 'are' is correct in this sentence becuase of the plural 'members'.

My familyiscoming to town. -Use of 'is' is correct because of the singular 'family'.

They are not interchangeable if we are discussing standard written English.

"I have family coming to town." There, I avoided that grammar situation.Lockedge

LMAO :D

[QUOTE="CammiTac"]

This is why I hate English grammar. It seems entirely too unnecessarily complicated.

Memberino

Also- the most useful and my personal favourite.

Anyway- I use 'is'.

[QUOTE="Lockedge"]"I have family coming to town." There, I avoided that grammar situation.Ultimas_Blade

LMAO :D

ahhhhh English, you miserable, lonely *****

[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]Both are right. The singular is probably more conventional for talking about the group as a whole, whereas the plural is more often used when we're thinking about the various individuals, if that distinction makes sense. Ultimas_Blade

No, if we are talking about standard written Englishand not dialects then no. Your construction of the sentence dictates the word you use.If you construct the sentence:

Members of my family are coming to town. -Use of 'are' is correct in this sentence becuase of the plural 'members'.

My familyiscoming to town. -Use of 'is' is correct because of the singular 'family'.

They are not interchangeable if we are discussing standard written English.

In this situation "family" being regarded as a single entity it would be "is".

[QUOTE="Ultimas_Blade"]

[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]Both are right. The singular is probably more conventional for talking about the group as a whole, whereas the plural is more often used when we're thinking about the various individuals, if that distinction makes sense. jimmyjammer69

No, if we are talking about standard written Englishand not dialects then no. Your construction of the sentence dictates the word you use.If you construct the sentence:

Members of my family are coming to town. -Use of 'are' is correct in this sentence becuase of the plural 'members'.

My familyiscoming to town. -Use of 'is' is correct because of the singular 'family'.

They are not interchangeable if we are discussing standard written English.

You have a source that determines the interchangeability of is/are for collective nouns?

[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]

[QUOTE="Ultimas_Blade"]

No, if we are talking about standard written Englishand not dialects then no. Your construction of the sentence dictates the word you use.If you construct the sentence:

Members of my family are coming to town. -Use of 'are' is correct in this sentence becuase of the plural 'members'.

My familyiscoming to town. -Use of 'is' is correct because of the singular 'family'.

They are not interchangeable if we are discussing standard written English.

Ultimas_Blade

[QUOTE="Ultimas_Blade"]

[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]Both are right. The singular is probably more conventional for talking about the group as a whole, whereas the plural is more often used when we're thinking about the various individuals, if that distinction makes sense. jimmyjammer69

No, if we are talking about standard written Englishand not dialects then no. Your construction of the sentence dictates the word you use.If you construct the sentence:

Members of my family are coming to town. -Use of 'are' is correct in this sentence becuase of the plural 'members'.

My familyiscoming to town. -Use of 'is' is correct because of the singular 'family'.

They are not interchangeable if we are discussing standard written English.

I would say, " my family's coming to town."

I don't really care what is proper or inproper.

I just use what sounds good and in this case it would be "My family is coming to town"

[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]

[QUOTE="Ultimas_Blade"]

No, if we are talking about standard written Englishand not dialects then no. Your construction of the sentence dictates the word you use.If you construct the sentence:

Members of my family are coming to town. -Use of 'are' is correct in this sentence becuase of the plural 'members'.

My familyiscoming to town. -Use of 'is' is correct because of the singular 'family'.

They are not interchangeable if we are discussing standard written English.

HoolaHoopMan

Isnt "police" a singular noun?

[QUOTE="Ultimas_Blade"]

[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]Yes, they are. My family is coming to town/my family are coming to town are both ok. It's the same way with many other collective nouns, such as the team, the cabinet, the audience etc. In the first sentence, family doesn't act as the subject of the verb "come"; "members" does, and, hence, only the plural form of the auxiliarly verb is acceptable.

Memberino

Yeah, 'google' is a great source :| So what if it is common? My statement was on STANDARD WRITTEN ENGLISH. Dialects are another thing, but if you break the rule for one word it breaks it for all. You can speak like that all day and it wouldn't bother me, but if you are writing an essay you're telling me that you'd let a search engine like google decide how you write your sentences?

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"][QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]Yes, they are. My family is coming to town/my family are coming to town are both ok. It's the same way with many other collective nouns, such as the team, the cabinet, the audience etc. In the first sentence, family doesn't act as the subject of the verb "come"; "members" does, and, hence, only the plural form of the auxiliarly verb is acceptable.

Teenaged

Isnt "police" a singular noun?

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"][QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]Yes, they are. My family is coming to town/my family are coming to town are both ok. It's the same way with many other collective nouns, such as the team, the cabinet, the audience etc. In the first sentence, family doesn't act as the subject of the verb "come"; "members" does, and, hence, only the plural form of the auxiliarly verb is acceptable.

Teenaged

Isnt "police" a singular noun?

[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]

[QUOTE="Ultimas_Blade"]

No, if we are talking about standard written Englishand not dialects then no. Your construction of the sentence dictates the word you use.If you construct the sentence:

Members of my family are coming to town. -Use of 'are' is correct in this sentence becuase of the plural 'members'.

My familyiscoming to town. -Use of 'is' is correct because of the singular 'family'.

They are not interchangeable if we are discussing standard written English.

HoolaHoopMan

Family is a single group, so the correct way would be family is. Same thing holds true for any collective group, like a company.

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"][QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]Yes, they are. My family is coming to town/my family are coming to town are both ok. It's the same way with many other collective nouns, such as the team, the cabinet, the audience etc. In the first sentence, family doesn't act as the subject of the verb "come"; "members" does, and, hence, only the plural form of the auxiliarly verb is acceptable.

Teenaged

Isnt "police" a singular noun?

Yes, police is an exception. It's thrown in there to confuse foreigners. Apparently it failed this time.jimmyjammer69

*overgeneralised the exception as a rule*

*is confused that it isnt a rule in the slightest*

"it failed this time"

What? :P

That's a good question. If you are talking about a single officer capturing a felon or whatever, 'policeman' is usual used. IMO I think that 'police' wouldn't be used with 'is' because it is an outright plural word. When talking about them in the singular people don't use 'police' but 'policeman' or 'police officer'.

Ultimas_Blade

My family is coming to town.

[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]Yes, police is an exception. It's thrown in there to confuse foreigners. Apparently it failed this time.Teenaged

*overgeneralised the exception as a rule*

*is confused that it isnt a rule in the slightest*

"it failed this time"

What? :P

That's a good question. If you are talking about a single officer capturing a felon or whatever, 'policeman' is usual used. IMO I think that 'police' wouldn't be used with 'is' because it is an outright plural word. When talking about them in the singular people don't use 'police' but 'policeman' or 'police officer'.

Ultimas_Blade

But on subject though, police is never used as a singular in standard written English (as far as I know, if there are examples otherwise please cite). In spoken English, 'police is' isprobably saidall the time in some dialects.

Don't mean to stop you in the middle of your thought, but I thought this was about the specifics of English use of are or is with the noun family. You change the discussion if we aren't exclusively discussing English.

But on subject though, police is never used as a singular in standard written English (as far as I know, if there are examples otherwise please cite). In spoken English, 'police is' isprobably saidall the time in some dialects.

Ultimas_Blade

You said that police is clearly a plural word. Why? I assume because we know the police as an "entity" consists of many people, correct? Is that knowledge exlcusive to the English language?

Obviously not. This doesnt even deal with specific languages. Its simply how we perceive the word and what it refers to.

So since there are languages who do not perceive the word that way but rather as a singular entity (which of course still consists of many people), the above criterion (that it consists of many people) isnt something that tells us that the word "police" is definitely plural, especially since there is no formative to denote it.

"My family IS coming to town". Family is a singular word. Families would be "are".

Pirate700

My family on coming to town. Eh?

Ultimas_blade just needs to accept that both the singular and plural can be used with collective nouns. Apparently he can't be bothered to just google it and see that he's been way too strict on the grammar, saying this way is right and this way is wrong.Memberino

Ultimas_blade just needs to accept that both the singular and plural can be used with collective nouns. Apparently he can't be bothered to just google it and see that he's been way too strict on the grammar, saying this way is right and this way is wrong.Memberino

I just need to accept it? I keep making the distinction that I'm against interchangeability if it is being written, however if it is being spoken I have NO ISSUES with it. That's all.

[QUOTE="Ultimas_Blade"]

Don't mean to stop you in the middle of your thought, but I thought this was about the specifics of English use of are or is with the noun family. You change the discussion if we aren't exclusively discussing English.

But on subject though, police is never used as a singular in standard written English (as far as I know, if there are examples otherwise please cite). In spoken English, 'police is' isprobably saidall the time in some dialects.

Teenaged

You said that police is clearly a plural word. Why? I assume because we know the police as an "entity" consists of many people, correct? Is that knowledge exlcusive to the English language?

Obviously not. This doesnt even deal with specific languages. Its simply how we perceive the word and what it refers to.

So since there are languages who do not perceive the word that way but rather as a singular entity (which of course still consists of many people), the above criterion (that it consists of many people) isnt something that tells us that the word "police" is definitely plural, especially since there is no formative to denote it.

[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]Both are right. The singular is probably more conventional for talking about the group as a whole, whereas the plural is more often used when we're thinking about the various individuals, if that distinction makes sense. Ultimas_Blade

No, if we are talking about standard written Englishand not dialects then no. Your construction of the sentence dictates the word you use.If you construct the sentence:

Members of my family are coming to town. -Use of 'are' is correct in this sentence becuase of the plural 'members'.

My familyiscoming to town. -Use of 'is' is correct because of the singular 'family'.

They are not interchangeable if we are discussing standard written English.

yeah, that sounds right to me.

With words like family/audience/army/group/public, do you use the plural form of the verb or the singular form?
Its acceptable to say both but which do you prefer?

Would you say
The crowd was noisy/The crowd were noisy
The general public is stupid/The general public are stupid
The army is recruiting in town/The army are recruiting in town

?

Memberino

For the first one, it depends upon whether or not the noise of the audience is factual. If the sentence started with if, then you would have use were. Crowd is a singular thing. The crowd was noisy would be correct. If you indicated particular people within the crowd, then the second way would be correct. The general public is a single thing. If you said, "People within the general public," then are would be correct. The army is a single thing. If you said, "Soldiers in the army," then are would be correct.

I'm pretty sure Are is incorrect. Sounds it at least

"My family IS coming to town". Family is a singular word. Families would be "are".

Pirate700

English is easy compared to my language.

[QUOTE="Ultimas_Blade"]

[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]Yes, they are. My family is coming to town/my family are coming to town are both ok. It's the same way with many other collective nouns, such as the team, the cabinet, the audience etc. In the first sentence, family doesn't act as the subject of the verb "come"; "members" does, and, hence, only the plural form of the auxiliarly verb is acceptable.

Memberino

Ironically, the textbook example that I remember is, as follows: "The jury are deliberating." The collective noun "jury" is plural because the sentence speaks of the jurors acting as multiple individuals interacting with each other. But you could also speak of the jury ina singular sense, if the jury acts as a single unit, e.g. "the jury is going to lunch." At any rate, because the cardinal rule of writing is simplicity, it may be better to simply use "jurors" when one means the plural, and "jury" when one intends the singular. Too many readers or listeners might find the collective plural jarring.

I use 'is'. Family/Army/etc specify ONE group so use of'is' is appropriate.

Ultimas_Blade

I use 'is'. Family/Army/etc specify ONE group so use of'is' is appropriate.