Do You Think The Men's Right's Movement Is Silly?

What's cool is that while reading this topic, I have an ad that says, "100 hottest pictures of cheerleaders you will ever see" in the bottom of my screen.  Hooray Gamespot!

I think that if more men really bought into feminism there might be a more constructive dialogue.theone86

[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]

Yes and no. There are legitimate concerns that men should be concerned about. Men have a much harder time getting a job that requires working with children, for example. And once they do get it, they are watched far more closely than a woman. As a pre-service teacher, this is a concern to me. Parents often prefer that their child's teacher be a female than a male. It's true that a male is statistically more likely to sexually abuse someone than a female, but prejudice behaviour such as this is not justified. Blacks are also statistically more likely to commit a crime, but they should not be denied jobs or treated like a criminal once they get in. And neither should a man simply because he is a man. 

That being said, I don't agree with the Men's Rights Movement. I also don't agree with a Women's Rights Movement. I've been saying for years that men and women need to work together to resolve this. We should create a Gender Equality Movement composed of both men and women. All issues based on sex or gender will be addressed. It's the only way things will be taken seriously. 

Nibroc420

They're mostly fighting to have equal standing with men in society.  There are so many things that men just take for granted because they have always been that way, and when women challenge them on the issue they get extremely defensive and try to trivialize them.  These issues might seem trivial to men, but they affect women in a profound manner.  I would say that if men dropped the knee-jerk reactions in these instances and tried to empathize with women then they might actually understand why women are still fighting.

That, and there are still issues of rights that were resolved in the past but continue to be an issue, such as reproductive rights.

[QUOTE="theone86"]I think that if more men really bought into feminism there might be a more constructive dialogue.Nibroc420

According to who?

when you make a poll, please make the choices straight forward (yes/no/indifferent etc). Don't try to be cute with the poll options. kthx

TOPIC: It depends. I like this website equalitycanada.com (shut down due to thug feminazis flooding). Ones that actually care about equality, then there are stupid butthurt baww-fest type of MRA like this dude

That, and there are still issues of rights that were resolved in the past but continue to be an issue, such as reproductive rights.

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="theone86"]I think that if more men really bought into feminism there might be a more constructive dialogue.theone86

According to who?

Only if their sole purpose is to counter b*tches like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjImnqH_KwM

dominer

[QUOTE="deeliman"][QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

This.

rocinante_

feminism, at its root, does address issues for both genders--social theory 101

nowadays, the core of feminism has been tainted with extremist views that propagate the misconception that the movement is solely anti-men and pro-women. it's not that simple

In my experience, a lot of the extremist views come from the constant assaults on feminism, or at least gain traction because of them.  One of my biggest problems with feminism is this idea that anything a feminist says becomes gospel truth and arguing in any way makes you a misogynist.  However, usually when I see that happening I see that feminist fighting for issues that are very important to her and stating her point very eloquently, and then getting shouted down by a lot of angry men who refuse to consider her point of view (see: the b*tch post earlier in thsi thread).  I understand how completely frustrating that can be and how easy that makes it to turn to this frankly facist mode of thought, but I really think that just reinforces my point that if more men tried to participate constructively in feminist movements instead of just getting angry and dismissive then the results would be better for everyone.

[QUOTE="dominer"]

Only if their sole purpose is to counter b*tches like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjImnqH_KwM

Fightingfan

[QUOTE="rocinante_"]

[QUOTE="deeliman"]theone86

feminism, at its root, does address issues for both genders--social theory 101

nowadays, the core of feminism has been tainted with extremist views that propagate the misconception that the movement is solely anti-men and pro-women. it's not that simple

In my experience, a lot of the extremist views come from the constant assaults on feminism, or at least gain traction because of them.  One of my biggest problems with feminism is this idea that anything a feminist says becomes gospel truth and arguing in any way makes you a misogynist.  However, usually when I see that happening I see that feminist fighting for issues that are very important to her and stating her point very eloquently, and then getting shouted down by a lot of angry men who refuse to consider her point of view (see: the b*tch post earlier in thsi thread).  I understand how completely frustrating that can be and how easy that makes it to turn to this frankly facist mode of thought, but I really think that just reinforces my point that if more men tried to participate constructively in feminist movements instead of just getting angry and dismissive then the results would be better for everyone.

oh, absolutely...unfortunately, those type of people are few and far between. c'est la vie

[QUOTE="Fightingfan"][QUOTE="dominer"]

Only if their sole purpose is to counter b*tches like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjImnqH_KwM

Nibroc420

What rights, exactly, are men in danger of losing here?

And this is exactly my point, you personally don't understand the issue, therefore the issue is ridiculous.  It doesn't matter that it's important to feminists, you personally get to determine what is "objectively" important and what is not, and when feminists take up an issue that is not "objectively" important you slam them as extremists.  If there weren't any people like you there would be far fewer actual feminists extremists.

Also, where's the equality in women dominating submissive character roles?  

90% of child custody results favor the mother. There's a reason Men's Rights Activists exist.

Now, if the system were fair, I still think most child custody cases would go to the mother - 65% - but it needs to be fair.

Then of course alimony is unfair.

[QUOTE="deeliman"][QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

This.

rocinante_

feminism, at its root, does address issues for both genders--social theory 101

nowadays, the core of feminism has been tainted with extremist views that propagate the misconception that the movement is solely anti-men and pro-women. it's not that simple

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="Fightingfan"] Is she serious? It's a game... The reason they cater to mean is because gaming is a male dominate activity. theone86

What rights, exactly, are men in danger of losing here?

And this is exactly my point, you personally don't understand the issue, therefore the issue is ridiculous.  It doesn't matter that it's important to feminists, you personally get to determine what is "objectively" important and what is not, and when feminists take up an issue that is not "objectively" important you slam them as extremists.  If there weren't any people like you there would be far fewer actual feminists extremists.

Also, where's the equality in women dominating submissive character roles?  

[QUOTE="rocinante_"]

[QUOTE="deeliman"]premeketsi

feminism, at its root, does address issues for both genders--social theory 101

nowadays, the core of feminism has been tainted with extremist views that propagate the misconception that the movement is solely anti-men and pro-women. it's not that simple

have you even read any early feminist theory? feminism, from get go, was about addressing gender equality and social issues in general, not specifically just on women

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="Fightingfan"] Is she serious? It's a game... The reason they cater to mean is because gaming is a male dominate activity. theone86

What rights, exactly, are men in danger of losing here?

And this is exactly my point, you personally don't understand the issue, therefore the issue is ridiculous.  It doesn't matter that it's important to feminists, you personally get to determine what is "objectively" important and what is not, and when feminists take up an issue that is not "objectively" important you slam them as extremists.  If there weren't any people like you there would be far fewer actual feminists extremists.

Also, where's the equality in women dominating submissive character roles?  

But now that the wage gap has disappeared, and has even reversed in women's favor, Nibroc420

trollbroc at it again.

[QUOTE="premeketsi"][QUOTE="rocinante_"]

feminism, at its root, does address issues for both genders--social theory 101

nowadays, the core of feminism has been tainted with extremist views that propagate the misconception that the movement is solely anti-men and pro-women. it's not that simple

rocinante_

have you even read any early feminist theory? feminism, from get go, was about addressing gender equality and social issues in general, not specifically just on women

[QUOTE="premeketsi"][QUOTE="rocinante_"]

feminism, at its root, does address issues for both genders--social theory 101

nowadays, the core of feminism has been tainted with extremist views that propagate the misconception that the movement is solely anti-men and pro-women. it's not that simple

rocinante_

have you even read any early feminist theory? feminism, from get go, was about addressing gender equality and social issues in general, not specifically just on women

[QUOTE="premeketsi"][QUOTE="Aljosa23"]No.

Aljosa23

It is if it happens. Women initiate 2/3 of divorces and are the aggressors in 60% of domestic violence cases.

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]But now that the wage gap has disappeared, and has even reversed in women's favor, Aljosa23

trollbroc at it again.

[QUOTE="rocinante_"]

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]So is this an actual movement or is it just a bunch of guys saying fvck you to feminists?premeketsi

basically. whenever i think of someone who is part of the men's right movement (lol) i think of a sad, loser neckbeard who blames the whole female gender because he can't get any

This is a leading voice in the MRM, a Bisexual woman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RozEFVPDxeg

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]But now that the wage gap has disappeared, and has even reversed in women's favor, Aljosa23

trollbroc at it again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH4lb88DMeo

Also women age 25 and under make 8% more than their male counterparts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb_6v-JQ13Q

Yes.  Speaking as a man I can safely say we don't need a rights movement.  We may need to play a bigger role in the feminist conversation, but in my experience whenever there's a legitimate problem with the feminist movement it always gets caught up in misogynist rhetoric.  The best way to improve feminism is to become a part of it.

theone86

The best way to improve racism is to become a part of it.

[QUOTE="rocinante_"]

[QUOTE="premeketsi"] "At its root". Please don't.premeketsi

have you even read any early feminist theory? feminism, from get go, was about addressing gender equality and social issues in general, not specifically just on women

yah, and i'm sayin that some--not all--modern feminists have got it all wrong

for example (albeit an extreme one), it's like how the wbc believes themselves to be christians 

Ehh, I don't agree with the whole greivance industry for men deal, but I tend to agree with their view in respect to a lot of social (not necessarily legal) issues facing the average guy.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

Yes.  Speaking as a man I can safely say we don't need a rights movement.  We may need to play a bigger role in the feminist conversation, but in my experience whenever there's a legitimate problem with the feminist movement it always gets caught up in misogynist rhetoric.  The best way to improve feminism is to become a part of it.

GummiRaccoon

The best way to improve racism is to become a part of it.

Only if their sole purpose is to counter b*tches like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjImnqH_KwM

dominer

I knew that was going to be anita sarkeesian before I clicked the link

[QUOTE="premeketsi"][QUOTE="theone86"]

Most of those problems arise because men are expected to adhere to this ridiculous idea of a "real" man.  That idea is spread more by men than it is by women, and in fact a lot of feminists try to fight against outdated ideas of what a "real" man is.

theone86

Because we're living in a society and these issues of what a man is and how it affects other people don't exist in a vacuum.  It's not like men come up with an idea of what a real man is on their own, it's spread by the media and other men.

People learn their attitudes about gender roles from their mothers.

Yes and no. There are legitimate concerns that men should be concerned about. Men have a much harder time getting a job that requires working with children, for example. And once they do get it, they are watched far more closely than a woman. As a pre-service teacher, this is a concern to me. Parents often prefer that their child's teacher be a female than a male. It's true that a male is statistically more likely to sexually abuse someone than a female, but prejudice behaviour such as this is not justified. Blacks are also statistically more likely to commit a crime, but they should not be denied jobs or treated like a criminal once they get in. And neither should a man simply because he is a man. 

That being said, I don't agree with the Men's Rights Movement. I also don't agree with a Women's Rights Movement. I've been saying for years that men and women need to work together to resolve this. We should create a Gender Equality Movement composed of both men and women. All issues based on sex or gender will be addressed. It's the only way things will be taken seriously. 

Tropictrain

http://www.earlychildhoodnews.com/earlychildhood/article_view.aspx?ArticleID=400

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]But now that the wage gap has disappeared, and has even reversed in women's favor, GummiRaccoon

trollbroc at it again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH4lb88DMeo

Also women age 25 and under make 8% more than their male counterparts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb_6v-JQ13Q

[QUOTE="rocinante_"]

[QUOTE="deeliman"]theone86

feminism, at its root, does address issues for both genders--social theory 101

nowadays, the core of feminism has been tainted with extremist views that propagate the misconception that the movement is solely anti-men and pro-women. it's not that simple

In my experience, a lot of the extremist views come from the constant assaults on feminism, or at least gain traction because of them.  One of my biggest problems with feminism is this idea that anything a feminist says becomes gospel truth and arguing in any way makes you a misogynist.  However, usually when I see that happening I see that feminist fighting for issues that are very important to her and stating her point very eloquently, and then getting shouted down by a lot of angry men who refuse to consider her point of view (see: the b*tch post earlier in thsi thread).  I understand how completely frustrating that can be and how easy that makes it to turn to this frankly facist mode of thought, but I really think that just reinforces my point that if more men tried to participate constructively in feminist movements instead of just getting angry and dismissive then the results would be better for everyone.

third wave feminism

Only minorities and women have any right to a movement, obviously.

Only minorities and women have any right to a movement, obviously.

Chutebox

[QUOTE="rocinante_"]

[QUOTE="deeliman"]theone86

feminism, at its root, does address issues for both genders--social theory 101

nowadays, the core of feminism has been tainted with extremist views that propagate the misconception that the movement is solely anti-men and pro-women. it's not that simple

In my experience, a lot of the extremist views come from the constant assaults on feminism, or at least gain traction because of them.  One of my biggest problems with feminism is this idea that anything a feminist says becomes gospel truth and arguing in any way makes you a misogynist.  However, usually when I see that happening I see that feminist fighting for issues that are very important to her and stating her point very eloquently, and then getting shouted down by a lot of angry men who refuse to consider her point of view (see: the b*tch post earlier in thsi thread).  I understand how completely frustrating that can be and how easy that makes it to turn to this frankly facist mode of thought, but I really think that just reinforces my point that if more men tried to participate constructively in feminist movements instead of just getting angry and dismissive then the results would be better for everyone.

[QUOTE="Chutebox"]

Only minorities and women have any right to a movement, obviously.

premeketsi

[QUOTE="premeketsi"][QUOTE="Chutebox"]

Only minorities and women have any right to a movement, obviously.

deeliman

MRAs are embarrasing.

Only minorities and women have any right to a movement, obviously.

Chutebox

[QUOTE="Chutebox"]

Only minorities and women have any right to a movement, obviously.

Ace6301

Both movements are a form of retardation only further propagated by a hyper-sensitive world of twits.MysteryJ0ker

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="Chutebox"]

Only minorities and women have any right to a movement, obviously.

premeketsi

[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]

Yes and no. There are legitimate concerns that men should be concerned about. Men have a much harder time getting a job that requires working with children, for example. And once they do get it, they are watched far more closely than a woman. As a pre-service teacher, this is a concern to me. Parents often prefer that their child's teacher be a female than a male. It's true that a male is statistically more likely to sexually abuse someone than a female, but prejudice behaviour such as this is not justified. Blacks are also statistically more likely to commit a crime, but they should not be denied jobs or treated like a criminal once they get in. And neither should a man simply because he is a man. 

That being said, I don't agree with the Men's Rights Movement. I also don't agree with a Women's Rights Movement. I've been saying for years that men and women need to work together to resolve this. We should create a Gender Equality Movement composed of both men and women. All issues based on sex or gender will be addressed. It's the only way things will be taken seriously. 

theone86

Isn't that just a semantic difference?  I don't even think most women's right acitivists identify with a women's rights movement all that much anymore, they identify as feminists.  And really, most of the time when I see men rallying against feminism they're either nitpicking one issue to make the entire movement look bad or they're trying to dismiss feminist issues as "whining."  I think that if more men really bought into feminism there might be a more constructive dialogue.

Not surprised to see that there was a lot of activity in this thread since I left and I'm too lazy to read it all. But to address your concern, yes. It's mostly a semantic difference. As someone else also pointed out to me, feminism was intended to address both and I'm aware of this. This is also why I support feminism. However, the world no longer sees it this way for the most part and I think it's because the name itself is biased. I understand that it was necessary at first in order for it to be taken seriously and to be effective, but in today's society it is counter-productive. For example, at my university we have both a Women's Centre and a Sexual Diversity centre. The Women's Centre is often active in fighting for women's rights and the Sexual Diversity centre is often active in supporting the rights of the LGBT community. But the Sexual Diversity centre makes it clear that it is open to those of all sexual practices, the Women's Centre doesn't. I see heterosexuals visiting the Sexual Diversity Centre (myself included) but I've never seen or heard of men visiting the Women's Centre. And I definitely never saw them out at the tables when they're supporting a cause or raising funds. If we had a Gender Equality Centre instead I believe this would not be the case and it would be far more effective. A name is extremely important. 

Are there certain double standards and social issues that negatively affect men, and probaby should be addressed? Yes.  Having said that the entire men's rights movement is pretty dumb because it seems everyone who is actively involved in it is some butthurt guy, who hates all women because they don't find him attractive, or some bible thumper who wants women to be seen, not heard.

Domestic violence against men is a problem, and the way society is likely to treat a man who his attacked by a woman is a problem, but the MRA is dumb.  It is almost exactly the same problem as the feminist movement.  Some legitimate points and problems exist, but the movement itself and the people addressing those points drown out any hint of sensibility. 

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]So is this an actual movement or is it just a bunch of guys saying fvck you to feminists?Nibroc420

Only minorities and women have any right to a movement, obviously.

Chutebox