Do you favor a particular Bible verse? Tell us.

This topic is locked from further discussion.

#151 Posted by LJS9502_basic (152304 posts) -

 

I see this is just like the gamespot video on system wars...you are not defending your religion, you are defending your character.  You have intertwined your religion with your personality, and as such you think me criticising your theism is criticising your character.  And you still didn't answer my question...I'm guessing you don't know why you follow it.

 Nope.  I wasn't referring to myself at all.

Also, In this thread, i don't have a 'belief.'  Being an atheist is not a belief system.  I was hoping you'd understand that

Being atheist you believe there is no God.  You cannot prove you are correct.  Therefore, it's belief.

As for the barbaric book...well, then...

 

I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law (Luke 12:49-53).

 Jesus' proclamation of the kingdom is a refining and purifying fire.  Not a literal scripture text.

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)

 You cannot follow Jesus if you have hate in your heart. He is about love.


Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. (Matthew 10:21-22)

 Hint at what will happen to those that follow Him.  Hint..they are the victims. Those who stand firm in their faith will be saved.


He that is not with me is against me. (Matthew 12:30 and Luke 11:23)

Right.  You are either with or against someone.  You have chosen some very odd texts to disagree with it.

 

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me (Matthew 10:34-38).

 Same as above vis a vis His disciples not be accepted by their own people for following Him.

Acts 5 is also fun, where Ananias and Sapphira, who sold their property and gave only part of the proceeds to the new Christian community. Peter gets the Holy Spirit to strike them dead for holding some back from him.

 

 

wis3boi

You really don't understand the scripture in the least.  I have respect for someone that cannot find faith but at least understands the simple text.

#152 Posted by wis3boi (31954 posts) -

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

 

I see this is just like the gamespot video on system wars...you are not defending your religion, you are defending your character.  You have intertwined your religion with your personality, and as such you think me criticising your theism is criticising your character.  And you still didn't answer my question...I'm guessing you don't know why you follow it.

 Nope.  I wasn't referring to myself at all.

Also, In this thread, i don't have a 'belief.'  Being an atheist is not a belief system.  I was hoping you'd understand that

Being atheist you believe there is no God.  You cannot prove you are correct.  Therefore, it's belief.

As for the barbaric book...well, then...

 

I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law (Luke 12:49-53).

 Jesus' proclamation of the kingdom is a refining and purifying fire.  Not a literal scripture text.

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)

 You cannot follow Jesus if you have hate in your heart. He is about love.


Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. (Matthew 10:21-22)

 Hint at what will happen to those that follow Him.  Hint..they are the victims. Those who stand firm in their faith will be saved.


He that is not with me is against me. (Matthew 12:30 and Luke 11:23)

Right.  You are either with or against someone.  You have chosen some very odd texts to disagree with it.

 

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me (Matthew 10:34-38).

 Same as above vis a vis His disciples not be accepted by their own people for following Him.

Acts 5 is also fun, where Ananias and Sapphira, who sold their property and gave only part of the proceeds to the new Christian community. Peter gets the Holy Spirit to strike them dead for holding some back from him.

 

 

LJS9502_basic

You really don't understand the scripture in the least.  I have respect for someone that cannot find faith but at least understands the simple text.

You'll justify any act it seems, esepcially from a god that has a body count of 25 million in the bible, as long as you get to keep your faith.  And no, atheism is not the belief that there is no god...you made that up yourself.  I do understand these texts, I was in the catholic church and involved with it for 17 years.  It's really sad to see the only response you have to critcism of your myth book is to tell me im reading it wrong. 

#153 Posted by LJS9502_basic (152304 posts) -

You'll justify any act it seems, esepcially from a god that has a body count of 25 million in the bible, as long as you get to keep your faith.  And no, atheism is not the belief that there is no god...you made that up yourself.  I do understand these texts, I was in the catholic church and involved with it for 17 years.  It's really sad to see the only response you have to critcism of your myth book is to tell me im reading it wrong. 

wis3boi
I haven't justified anything. You picked the scripture without understanding the meaning. Just another ignorant person that bashes what they don't understand. Kudos for upholding the stereotype.
#154 Posted by wis3boi (31954 posts) -

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

You'll justify any act it seems, esepcially from a god that has a body count of 25 million in the bible, as long as you get to keep your faith.  And no, atheism is not the belief that there is no god...you made that up yourself.  I do understand these texts, I was in the catholic church and involved with it for 17 years.  It's really sad to see the only response you have to critcism of your myth book is to tell me im reading it wrong. 

LJS9502_basic

I haven't justified anything. You picked the scripture without understanding the meaning. Just another ignorant person that bashes what they don't understand. Kudos for upholding the stereotype.

You can study scripture for decades and not learn a thing.  There are millions of christians that disagree with YOUR own interpretations, too.  Again, justifying a book of murder, genocide, rape, and inhumane ideas.  And you keep drinking the koolaid.  Anyone who doesnt read into the texts the same things as you is 'ignorant.'  How adorable.  You can keep your dogma that you believe only because of accident of birth, I'm not thirsty for your ancient koolaid that was fed to you.

#155 Posted by LJS9502_basic (152304 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]

You'll justify any act it seems, esepcially from a god that has a body count of 25 million in the bible, as long as you get to keep your faith.  And no, atheism is not the belief that there is no god...you made that up yourself.  I do understand these texts, I was in the catholic church and involved with it for 17 years.  It's really sad to see the only response you have to critcism of your myth book is to tell me im reading it wrong. 

wis3boi

I haven't justified anything. You picked the scripture without understanding the meaning. Just another ignorant person that bashes what they don't understand. Kudos for upholding the stereotype.

You can study scripture for decades and not learn a thing.  There are millions of christians that disagree with YOUR own interpretations, too.  Again, justifying a book of murder, genocide, rape, and inhumane ideas.  And you keep drinking the koolaid.  Anyone who doesnt read into the texts the same things as you is 'ignorant.'  How adorable.  You can keep your dogma that you believe only because of accident of birth, I'm not thirsty for your ancient koolaid that was fed to you.

It's not MY interpretation. :|
#156 Posted by wis3boi (31954 posts) -

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] I haven't justified anything. You picked the scripture without understanding the meaning. Just another ignorant person that bashes what they don't understand. Kudos for upholding the stereotype.LJS9502_basic

You can study scripture for decades and not learn a thing.  There are millions of christians that disagree with YOUR own interpretations, too.  Again, justifying a book of murder, genocide, rape, and inhumane ideas.  And you keep drinking the koolaid.  Anyone who doesnt read into the texts the same things as you is 'ignorant.'  How adorable.  You can keep your dogma that you believe only because of accident of birth, I'm not thirsty for your ancient koolaid that was fed to you.

It's not MY interpretation. :|

 

Yea, you were fed it from the peanut gallery since birth, and if you were not raised as a christian, you came to it because nearly everyone around you is one too.  There are 41,000 Christian denominations, all with their own interpretations...yours just happens to be the correct one, hmm? How very very lucky for you, to have chosen the one correct one.

#157 Posted by LJS9502_basic (152304 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]

You can study scripture for decades and not learn a thing.  There are millions of christians that disagree with YOUR own interpretations, too.  Again, justifying a book of murder, genocide, rape, and inhumane ideas.  And you keep drinking the koolaid.  Anyone who doesnt read into the texts the same things as you is 'ignorant.'  How adorable.  You can keep your dogma that you believe only because of accident of birth, I'm not thirsty for your ancient koolaid that was fed to you.

wis3boi

It's not MY interpretation. :|

 

Yea, you were fed it from the peanut gallery since birth, and if you were not raised as a christian, you came to it because nearly everyone around you is one too.  There are 41,000 Christian denominations, all with their own interpretations...yours just happens to be the correct one, hmm? How very very lucky for you, to have chosen the one correct one.

No no I wasn't. Does it make you feel secure to believe that though? The scripture you selected wasn't even anything that required much knowledge to figure out. I could understand symbolism being difficult for you....but actual words? Kind of sad dude....
#158 Posted by wis3boi (31954 posts) -

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] It's not MY interpretation. :|LJS9502_basic

 

Yea, you were fed it from the peanut gallery since birth, and if you were not raised as a christian, you came to it because nearly everyone around you is one too.  There are 41,000 Christian denominations, all with their own interpretations...yours just happens to be the correct one, hmm? How very very lucky for you, to have chosen the one correct one.

No no I wasn't. Does it make you feel secure to believe that though? The scripture you selected wasn't even anything that required much knowledge to figure out. I could understand symbolism being difficult for you....but actual words? Kind of sad dude....

You talk a lot but say nothing that adressed what I brought up.  You continue to brush everything over with vague statements that hold no value.  I can see you aren't interesting in discussing it, just saying things for the sake of saying something.  I really don't give a shit what your book says, as none of your christian brethren have been able to in the past 2000 years shown why anyone should consider what it says at all to begin with over a book like the Illiad or Alice in Wonderland.  It's just a sad, poorly written and immoral text from the ancient middle east and nothing more.

#159 Posted by LJS9502_basic (152304 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]

 

Yea, you were fed it from the peanut gallery since birth, and if you were not raised as a christian, you came to it because nearly everyone around you is one too.  There are 41,000 Christian denominations, all with their own interpretations...yours just happens to be the correct one, hmm? How very very lucky for you, to have chosen the one correct one.

wis3boi

No no I wasn't. Does it make you feel secure to believe that though? The scripture you selected wasn't even anything that required much knowledge to figure out. I could understand symbolism being difficult for you....but actual words? Kind of sad dude....

You talk a lot but say nothing that adressed what I brought up.  You continue to brush everything over with vague statements that hold no value.  I can see you aren't interesting in discussing it, just saying things for the sake of saying something.  I really don't give a shit what your book says, as none of your christian brethren have been able to in the past 2000 years shown why anyone should consider what it says at all to begin with over a book like the Illiad or Alice in Wonderland.  It's just a sad, poorly written and immoral text from the ancient middle east and nothing more.

I don't take a damn thing you say seriously...that's why. Your posts in this thread validated that I'm correct in this. YOU made the mistakes...and whining about denominations doesn't change that. They do not interpret the scripture as you did. In short, if you want to be taken seriously in a discussion...do some studying on the subject rather than posting silly arguments.
#160 Posted by Braun_Roid_Rage (790 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]

 

Yea, you were fed it from the peanut gallery since birth, and if you were not raised as a christian, you came to it because nearly everyone around you is one too.  There are 41,000 Christian denominations, all with their own interpretations...yours just happens to be the correct one, hmm? How very very lucky for you, to have chosen the one correct one.

wis3boi

No no I wasn't. Does it make you feel secure to believe that though? The scripture you selected wasn't even anything that required much knowledge to figure out. I could understand symbolism being difficult for you....but actual words? Kind of sad dude....

You talk a lot but say nothing that adressed what I brought up.  You continue to brush everything over with vague statements that hold no value.  I can see you aren't interesting in discussing it, just saying things for the sake of saying something.  I really don't give a shit what your book says, as none of your christian brethren have been able to in the past 2000 years shown why anyone should consider what it says at all to begin with over a book like the Illiad or Alice in Wonderland.  It's just a sad, poorly written and immoral text from the ancient middle east and nothing more.

Good to see someone bashing a religion to feel better about their beliefs. What a joke you are.
#161 Posted by psn8214 (14929 posts) -

The one about getting stoned.

theone86

Amen. 

*sparks up*

#162 Posted by Tropictrain (4863 posts) -

You'll justify any act it seems, esepcially from a god that has a body count of 25 million in the bible, as long as you get to keep your faith.  And no, atheism is not the belief that there is no god...you made that up yourself.  I do understand these texts, I was in the catholic church and involved with it for 17 years.  It's really sad to see the only response you have to critcism of your myth book is to tell me im reading it wrong. 

wis3boi

Atheism isn't the belief that there is no god? That's the reason I've been calling myself an atheist all these years...because I don't believe in god. That's what atheism meant when I was growing up. When did the word change? I'm always amazed at how fast words can change. 

#163 Posted by SPYDER0416 (16736 posts) -

I would say Revelations 21.6

Specifically because Liam Neeson recited it to me.

#164 Posted by Tropictrain (4863 posts) -

[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] In the NT...the answer would be that you shouldn't think any less of someone who is gay or a different religion. I guess it depends on what you are using for a barometer. Serraph105

I saw a great video called the Gay Debate where someone spent an hour going into great detail using the bible as an argument in favour of gay marriage. It's a great video that I recommend to anyone whether you're religious or not. It truly demonstrates that you can believe in the bible and its teaching and still promote gay marriage. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezQjNJUSraY

I'm already one of the people who do, but hypothetically speaking if when I die I find out that God finds the anti-gay marriage stance to be the more favorable of the two I would be compelled to tell him why I think he's wrong. I wonder if God would hold that against me or indeed anyone who had the gall to tell him he is wrong when it comes to certain issues. Would they still be accepted into heaven?

It's hard to say. Since the only passage in the bible that specifically states that homosexuality is wrong is in the OT then I would assume if God is against homosexuality then we're talking the OT God... And in that case, you're pretty much screwed if you talk back against him. Which sucks. I favour the NT interpretation who doesn't condemn homosexuality. But even if he didn't like it, he seems to be all about forgiveness and love now so he'd probably forgive you for talking back against him.

#165 Posted by FuggaJ (318 posts) -

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

You'll justify any act it seems, esepcially from a god that has a body count of 25 million in the bible, as long as you get to keep your faith.  And no, atheism is not the belief that there is no god...you made that up yourself.  I do understand these texts, I was in the catholic church and involved with it for 17 years.  It's really sad to see the only response you have to critcism of your myth book is to tell me im reading it wrong. 

Tropictrain

Atheism isn't the belief that there is no god? That's the reason I've been calling myself an atheist all these years...because I don't believe in god. That's what atheism meant when I was growing up. When did the word change? I'm always amazed at how fast words can change. 

I think his point was it's the lack of a belief. Like not believing in unicorns isn't a belief, it's just more of a non-thought.
#166 Posted by foxhound_fox (90601 posts) -
Please give it up and learn some respect.Tropictrain
I do respect a person's right to hold a belief. I do not however need to respect their "right" to not have their beliefs criticized. I enjoy watching hypocrites try to defend their contradictory beliefs. People who react to my criticisms clearly are not comfortable with their beliefs, nor are they in the least bit sensible (for if faith is the ground upon which their beliefs are built, then my rationality and logic cannot touch them). You are being overly sensitive for the religious, and you need not be.
#167 Posted by LJS9502_basic (152304 posts) -
[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]Please give it up and learn some respect.foxhound_fox
I do respect a person's right to hold a belief. I do not however need to respect their "right" to not have their beliefs criticized. I enjoy watching hypocrites try to defend their contradictory beliefs. People who react to my criticisms clearly are not comfortable with their beliefs, nor are they in the least bit sensible (for if faith is the ground upon which their beliefs are built, then my rationality and logic cannot touch them). You are being overly sensitive for the religious, and you need not be.

LOL feel like a big man now fox?
#168 Posted by foxhound_fox (90601 posts) -
LOL feel like a big man now fox?LJS9502_basic
Always when you are around, love.
#169 Posted by wis3boi (31954 posts) -

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

You'll justify any act it seems, esepcially from a god that has a body count of 25 million in the bible, as long as you get to keep your faith.  And no, atheism is not the belief that there is no god...you made that up yourself.  I do understand these texts, I was in the catholic church and involved with it for 17 years.  It's really sad to see the only response you have to critcism of your myth book is to tell me im reading it wrong. 

Tropictrain

Atheism isn't the belief that there is no god? That's the reason I've been calling myself an atheist all these years...because I don't believe in god. That's what atheism meant when I was growing up. When did the word change? I'm always amazed at how fast words can change. 

it's the LACK of belief, not the assertion that there is no god.  That's taking things a whole step further.

 

If you and I came across a giant jar of gumballs, and you said there were an even number of gumballs in there, I'd not believe you.  If you said there were an odd number of gumballs, I'd also not believe you.  It's a rejection of the claims provided, not making a claim itself until it has enough reasonable evidence to.

 

Now, if you want to know about my personal postion...I am unsure of any possible gods that may exist.  I do not claim knowledge of them or their existence.  However, of all the major religions on Earth, especially the abrahamic god, I am positive that being does not exist.  It takes a theist to define their god before I can state my position.

#170 Posted by FuggaJ (318 posts) -

ITT: 3v3ysz.jpg

#171 Posted by Tropictrain (4863 posts) -

[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

You'll justify any act it seems, esepcially from a god that has a body count of 25 million in the bible, as long as you get to keep your faith.  And no, atheism is not the belief that there is no god...you made that up yourself.  I do understand these texts, I was in the catholic church and involved with it for 17 years.  It's really sad to see the only response you have to critcism of your myth book is to tell me im reading it wrong. 

wis3boi

Atheism isn't the belief that there is no god? That's the reason I've been calling myself an atheist all these years...because I don't believe in god. That's what atheism meant when I was growing up. When did the word change? I'm always amazed at how fast words can change. 

it's the LACK of belief, not the assertion that there is no god.  That's taking things a whole step further.

 

If you and I came across a giant jar of gumballs, and you said there were an even number of gumballs in there, I'd not believe you.  If you said there were an odd number of gumballs, I'd also not believe you.  It's a rejection of the claims provided, not making a claim itself until it has enough reasonable evidence to.

 

Now, if you want to know about my personal postion...I am unsure of any possible gods that may exist.  I do not claim knowledge of them or their existence.  However, of all the major religions on Earth, especially the abrahamic god, I am positive that being does not exist.  It takes a theist to define their god before I can state my position.

It sounds like you're an agnostic, not an atheist. Atheists believe there is no God. It is therefore a belief.

#172 Posted by wis3boi (31954 posts) -

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]

Atheism isn't the belief that there is no god? That's the reason I've been calling myself an atheist all these years...because I don't believe in god. That's what atheism meant when I was growing up. When did the word change? I'm always amazed at how fast words can change. 

Tropictrain

it's the LACK of belief, not the assertion that there is no god.  That's taking things a whole step further.

 

If you and I came across a giant jar of gumballs, and you said there were an even number of gumballs in there, I'd not believe you.  If you said there were an odd number of gumballs, I'd also not believe you.  It's a rejection of the claims provided, not making a claim itself until it has enough reasonable evidence to.

 

Now, if you want to know about my personal postion...I am unsure of any possible gods that may exist.  I do not claim knowledge of them or their existence.  However, of all the major religions on Earth, especially the abrahamic god, I am positive that being does not exist.  It takes a theist to define their god before I can state my position.

It sounds like you're an agnostic, not an atheist. Atheists believe there is no God. It is therefore a belief.

 

Learning the terms for your own positions helps...

 

Agnostic%252520v%252520Gnostic%252520v%2

 

#173 Posted by Tropictrain (4863 posts) -

[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

it's the LACK of belief, not the assertion that there is no god.  That's taking things a whole step further.

 

If you and I came across a giant jar of gumballs, and you said there were an even number of gumballs in there, I'd not believe you.  If you said there were an odd number of gumballs, I'd also not believe you.  It's a rejection of the claims provided, not making a claim itself until it has enough reasonable evidence to.

 

Now, if you want to know about my personal postion...I am unsure of any possible gods that may exist.  I do not claim knowledge of them or their existence.  However, of all the major religions on Earth, especially the abrahamic god, I am positive that being does not exist.  It takes a theist to define their god before I can state my position.

wis3boi

It sounds like you're an agnostic, not an atheist. Atheists believe there is no God. It is therefore a belief.

 

Learning the terms for your own positions helps...

 

Agnostic%252520v%252520Gnostic%252520v%2

 

So where is the lack of belief here? Both agnostic and gnostic atheists clearly believe gods don't exist. 

#174 Posted by Randolph (10542 posts) -
You talk a lot but say nothingwis3boi
How do you think he got to 148k posts? I mean, aside from having an obscene amount of free time.
#175 Posted by Randolph (10542 posts) -
So where is the lack of belief here? Both agnostic and gnostic atheists clearly believe gods don't exist. Tropictrain
Are you being dense on purpose to troll, or are you just an idiot? I can't honestly tell.
#176 Posted by Tropictrain (4863 posts) -

[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]So where is the lack of belief here? Both agnostic and gnostic atheists clearly believe gods don't exist. Randolph
Are you being dense on purpose to troll, or are you just an idiot? I can't honestly tell.

I'm being serious. I don't troll. "Does not believe any gods exist." is the exact same thing as "Believes gods do not exist." 

#177 Posted by wis3boi (31954 posts) -

[QUOTE="Randolph"][QUOTE="Tropictrain"]So where is the lack of belief here? Both agnostic and gnostic atheists clearly believe gods don't exist. Tropictrain

Are you being dense on purpose to troll, or are you just an idiot? I can't honestly tell.

I'm being serious. I don't troll. "Does not believe any gods exist." is the exact same thing as "Believes gods do not exist." 

Redefine it however you wish, that's the way it is, sorry.  Go into the philosophy department of any university and you'll get the same answer

#178 Posted by MakeMeaSammitch (4545 posts) -

Ezekiel 23:20: There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. It's like bad erotic fanfiction writing.XilePrincess
My new favorite passage.

#179 Posted by wis3boi (31954 posts) -

[QUOTE="XilePrincess"]Ezekiel 23:20: There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. It's like bad erotic fanfiction writing.MakeMeaSammitch

My new favorite passage.

Fifty Shades of Ezekiel

#180 Posted by LJS9502_basic (152304 posts) -
[QUOTE="wis3boi"]You talk a lot but say nothingRandolph
How do you think he got to 148k posts? I mean, aside from having an obscene amount of free time.

What sparkling wit.....such originality....and aligning with a known troll. Kudos all around dude...
#182 Posted by edgewalker16 (2284 posts) -
[QUOTE="Randolph"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]You talk a lot but say nothingLJS9502_basic
How do you think he got to 148k posts? I mean, aside from having an obscene amount of free time.

What sparkling wit.....such originality....and aligning with a known troll. Kudos all around dude...

This thread needs to die...
#183 Posted by chessmaster1989 (29730 posts) -
[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] No no I wasn't. Does it make you feel secure to believe that though? The scripture you selected wasn't even anything that required much knowledge to figure out. I could understand symbolism being difficult for you....but actual words? Kind of sad dude....LJS9502_basic

You talk a lot but say nothing that adressed what I brought up.  You continue to brush everything over with vague statements that hold no value.  I can see you aren't interesting in discussing it, just saying things for the sake of saying something.  I really don't give a shit what your book says, as none of your christian brethren have been able to in the past 2000 years shown why anyone should consider what it says at all to begin with over a book like the Illiad or Alice in Wonderland.  It's just a sad, poorly written and immoral text from the ancient middle east and nothing more.

I don't take a damn thing you say seriously...that's why. Your posts in this thread validated that I'm correct in this. YOU made the mistakes...and whining about denominations doesn't change that. They do not interpret the scripture as you did. In short, if you want to be taken seriously in a discussion...do some studying on the subject rather than posting silly arguments.

I see you enjoy banging your head against walls, LJ.
#184 Posted by Tropictrain (4863 posts) -

[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]

[QUOTE="Randolph"] Are you being dense on purpose to troll, or are you just an idiot? I can't honestly tell.wis3boi

I'm being serious. I don't troll. "Does not believe any gods exist." is the exact same thing as "Believes gods do not exist." 

Redefine it however you wish, that's the way it is, sorry.  Go into the philosophy department of any university and you'll get the same answer

Never was a big fan of philosophy. I'm a pre-service English teacher. And they clearly mean the same thing. Therefore, atheism is a belief. 

#185 Posted by meatgrinderz (1329 posts) -

No. I haven't flipped through a Bible in probably 10 years, so I don't have a favorite verse.

#186 Posted by BranKetra (49619 posts) -
Moderators, please lock this thread because it is proceeding too different than the topic.
#187 Posted by foxhound_fox (90601 posts) -
"Does not believe any gods exist." is the exact same thing as "Believes gods do not exist."Tropictrain
There is a subtle difference you are missing. An agnostic atheist says "I do not believe in a God, but do not know this for sure (i.e. 100%)". A gnostic atheist says "I do not believe in a God, and do know this for sure". Gnostic atheists are extremely rare and usually only occur in adolescence. Most atheists, when challenged, will only assert an agnostic stance ultimately. Even Christopher Hitchens was an agnostic atheist, he just rejected the idea that the Abrahamic God is "just, loving, benevolent, etc".
#188 Posted by Tropictrain (4863 posts) -

[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]"Does not believe any gods exist." is the exact same thing as "Believes gods do not exist."foxhound_fox
There is a subtle difference you are missing. An agnostic atheist says "I do not believe in a God, but do not know this for sure (i.e. 100%)". A gnostic atheist says "I do not believe in a God, and do know this for sure". Gnostic atheists are extremely rare and usually only occur in adolescence. Most atheists, when challenged, will only assert an agnostic stance ultimately. Even Christopher Hitchens was an agnostic atheist, he just rejected the idea that the Abrahamic God is "just, loving, benevolent, etc".

I didn't say agnostic and gnostic atheists are the same. I said ""Does not believe any gods exist." is the exact same thing as "Believes gods do not exist."" My argument was that atheism is a belief. "Does not believe any gods exist" was listed at the top in both categories. Therefore both believe gods don't exist. One claims to know they don't and the other doesn't. This I understand. But the fact remains that atheists "Do not believe any gods exist." And you refuse to tell me how that is different than "Believes gods do not exist." 

#189 Posted by foxhound_fox (90601 posts) -
Never was a big fan of philosophy. I'm a pre-service English teacher. And they clearly mean the same thing. Therefore, atheism is a belief. Tropictrain
These definitions are not bound by English semantics, they are very clearly defined through philosophy (which is a different but similar field). The "agnostic/gnostic" being used in conjunction with the "a/theism" changes the meaning of both words.
#190 Posted by foxhound_fox (90601 posts) -
I didn't say agnostic and gnostic atheists are the same. I said ""Does not believe any gods exist." is the exact same thing as "Believes gods do not exist."" My argument was that atheism is a belief. "Does not believe any gods exist" was listed at the top in both categories. Therefore both believe gods don't exist. One claims to know they don't and the other doesn't. This I understand. But the fact remains that atheists "Do not believe any gods exist." And you refuse to tell me how that is different than "Believes gods do not exist." Tropictrain
Those two phrases are very similar, and not sufficient to explain the difference between an agnostic and gnostic atheist.
#191 Posted by Tropictrain (4863 posts) -

[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]I didn't say agnostic and gnostic atheists are the same. I said ""Does not believe any gods exist." is the exact same thing as "Believes gods do not exist."" My argument was that atheism is a belief. "Does not believe any gods exist" was listed at the top in both categories. Therefore both believe gods don't exist. One claims to know they don't and the other doesn't. This I understand. But the fact remains that atheists "Do not believe any gods exist." And you refuse to tell me how that is different than "Believes gods do not exist." foxhound_fox
Those two phrases are very similar, and not sufficient to explain the difference between an agnostic and gnostic atheist.

I still don't think you understand what I'm asking. I don't care about the difference between an agnostic or gnostic atheist. My question has absolutely nothing to do with that. 

#192 Posted by chessmaster1989 (29730 posts) -

I find it moderately upsetting how often OT feels the need to debate the definition of atheism.

#193 Posted by MakeMeaSammitch (4545 posts) -

[QUOTE="MakeMeaSammitch"]

[QUOTE="XilePrincess"]Ezekiel 23:20: There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. It's like bad erotic fanfiction writing.wis3boi

My new favorite passage.

Fifty Shades of Ezekiel

I actually laughed out loud.

#194 Posted by OrkHammer007 (4751 posts) -

I told you all the atheists were here to pick a fight.

"Peaceful discussion"... "debate"... bullshit. You can only have a debate if you're open to changing your mind on certain things, and it's clear that the "anti-God squad" shut the door on that a LONG time ago.

I don't push my beliefs or my faith on others... apparently, OT's atheists don't share my restraint.

 

I was brought up to respect other people's beliefs, even if I didn't agree with them. Such an open display of disrespect for the TC and his faith absolutely disgusts me, and degrades anyone who participates in it. It's sad that people have stooped so low.

Bran, I apologize for sidetracking this into a holy war. I have a temper, and I'm not afraid to admit it. However, if I hadn't stood up and pointed out that you were, indeed, being mocked, I would have blown an aneurysm.

#195 Posted by theone86 (20555 posts) -

I told you all the atheists were here to pick a fight.

"Peaceful discussion"... "debate"... bullshit. You can only have a debate if you're open to changing your mind on certain things, and it's clear that the "anti-God squad" shut the door on that a LONG time ago.

I don't push my beliefs or my faith on others... apparently, OT's atheists don't share my restraint.

 

I was brought up to respect other people's beliefs, even if I didn't agree with them. Such an open display of disrespect for the TC and his faith absolutely disgusts me, and degrades anyone who participates in it. It's sad that people have stooped so low.

Bran, I apologize for sidetracking this into a holy war. I have a temper, and I'm not afraid to admit it. However, if I hadn't stood up and pointed out that you were, indeed, being mocked, I would have blown an aneurysm.

OrkHammer007

Open to changing your mind is not the same thing as accepting anything and everything that people happen to suggest as true.  In order to change rational people's minds you have to make a rational argument, asnd the argument for god is anything but rational.

Define "push."

I think atheist srespect other people's beliefs, they respect them insofar as they're important to religious people, which is all they really deserve.  If you mean respect on an intellectual level with theological arguments being taken seriously despite the total and complete lack of evidence, despite all the evidence pointing in the opposite direction, despite better explanations for just about everything, then no they don't respect their beliefs, nor should they.  Beliefs do not automatically deserve unqualified respect just because they are beliefs.

You're right, perhaps we should stop mocking Bran and start mocking you.  "Derp, beliefs deserve to be respected just because they're beliefs, derp!  I have to respect Charles Manson because killing people was part of his belief system, derp!"  I get an aneurysm when stupid people act like we should respect anything that comes out of any idiot's mouth just because they could muster the breath to say it.

#196 Posted by lostrib (42165 posts) -

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="Tropictrain"]"Does not believe any gods exist." is the exact same thing as "Believes gods do not exist."Tropictrain

There is a subtle difference you are missing. An agnostic atheist says "I do not believe in a God, but do not know this for sure (i.e. 100%)". A gnostic atheist says "I do not believe in a God, and do know this for sure". Gnostic atheists are extremely rare and usually only occur in adolescence. Most atheists, when challenged, will only assert an agnostic stance ultimately. Even Christopher Hitchens was an agnostic atheist, he just rejected the idea that the Abrahamic God is "just, loving, benevolent, etc".

I didn't say agnostic and gnostic atheists are the same. I said ""Does not believe any gods exist." is the exact same thing as "Believes gods do not exist."" My argument was that atheism is a belief. "Does not believe any gods exist" was listed at the top in both categories. Therefore both believe gods don't exist. One claims to know they don't and the other doesn't. This I understand. But the fact remains that atheists "Do not believe any gods exist." And you refuse to tell me how that is different than "Believes gods do not exist." 

i would guess hardcore atheists would say it's not a belief but a fact that god does not exist.  They don't believe it, they know it

#197 Posted by LJS9502_basic (152304 posts) -

[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"] There is a subtle difference you are missing. An agnostic atheist says "I do not believe in a God, but do not know this for sure (i.e. 100%)". A gnostic atheist says "I do not believe in a God, and do know this for sure". Gnostic atheists are extremely rare and usually only occur in adolescence. Most atheists, when challenged, will only assert an agnostic stance ultimately. Even Christopher Hitchens was an agnostic atheist, he just rejected the idea that the Abrahamic God is "just, loving, benevolent, etc".lostrib

I didn't say agnostic and gnostic atheists are the same. I said ""Does not believe any gods exist." is the exact same thing as "Believes gods do not exist."" My argument was that atheism is a belief. "Does not believe any gods exist" was listed at the top in both categories. Therefore both believe gods don't exist. One claims to know they don't and the other doesn't. This I understand. But the fact remains that atheists "Do not believe any gods exist." And you refuse to tell me how that is different than "Believes gods do not exist." 

i would guess hardcore atheists would say it's not a belief but a fact that god does not exist.  They don't believe it, they know it

Then they are lying to themselves. They don't "know" it...
#198 Posted by Hallenbeck77 (14598 posts) -

Locked by request of the TC.