do christians have a license to sin by believing in jesus? (story inside)

An Open Letter to the Church from a Lesbian

[spoiler]

 

To the churches concerning homosexuals and lesbians:

Many of you believe that we do not exist within your walls, your schools, your neighborhoods. You believe that we are few and easily recognized. I tell you we are many. We are your teachers, doctors, accountants, high school athletes. We are all colors, shapes, sizes. We are single, married, mothers, fathers. We are your sons, your daughters, your nieces, your nephews, your grandchildren. We are in your Sunday School classes, pews, choirs, and pulpits. You choose not to see us out of ignorance or because it might upset your congregation. We ARE your congregation. We enter your doors weekly seeking guidance and some glimmer of hope that we can change. Like you, we have invited Jesus into our hearts. Like you, we want to be all that Christ wants us to be. Like you, we pray daily for guidance. Like you, we often fail.

When the word homosexual is mentioned in the church, we hold our breaths and sit in fear. Most often this word is followed with condemnation, laughter, hatred, or jokes. Rarely do we hear any words of hope. At least we recognize our sin. Does the church as a whole see theirs? Do you see the sin of pride, that you are better than or more acceptable to Jesus than we are? Have you been Christ-like in your relationships with us? Would you meet us at the well, or restaurant, for a cup of water, or coffee? Would you touch us even if we showed signs of leprosy, or aids? Would you call us down from our trees, as Christ did Zacchaeus, and invite yourself to be our guest? Would you allow us to sit at your table and break bread? Can you love us unconditionally and support us as Christ works in our lives, as He works in yours, to help us all to overcome?

To those of you who would change the church to accept the gay community and its lifestyle: you give us no hope at all. To those of us who know Gods word and will not dilute it to fit our desires, we ask you to read Johns letter to the church in Pergamum. I have a few things against you: You have people there who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin by eating food sacrificed to idols and by committing sexual immorality. Likewise, you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. Repent therefore! You are willing to compromise the word of God to be politically correct. We are not deceived. If we accept your willingness to compromise, then we must also compromise. We must therefore accept your lying, your adultery, your lust, your idolatry, your addictions, YOUR sins. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

We do not ask for your acceptance of our sins any more than we accept yours. We simply ask for the same support, love, guidance, and most of all hope that is given to the rest of your congregation. We are your brothers and sisters in Christ. We are not what we shall be, but thank God, we are not what we were. Let us work together to see that we all arrive safely home.

A Sister in Christ

 

[/spoiler] a_lesbian

the person who wrote this is a follower of christ and admits to her sin saying, "At least we recognize our sin."

i don't know her fate, but it would seem things wouldn't turn out well for her in an afterlife... but she believes in jesus. but then she continues to purposfully live her life in sin. isn't this backwards?

i don't get it, can someone explain it to those of us who are confused.

Oh and here is the link.

sure.

.

No, but non-Christians certainly do, and I encourage sin wherever possible.Zeviander

TC - no, they do not. Christians are supposed to repent of sin, not 'recognize it' and keep doing it.

Edit:  John 8: 1-11 puts it into perspective
1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.

2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.

3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

As long as you buy some indulgences 

you're the devil!4myAmuzumament

My question is, why do some homosexuals like this woman still cling to Christianity? Why not just leave church instead of "sitting in fear"? Any religion that makes you feel unwelcome isn't one worth following. 

That lesbian will still be going to hell by Christian standards, regardless what she thinks is acceptableGamingVengeance

Yet Christ never said one word about homosexuality.

[QUOTE="GamingVengeance"]That lesbian will still be going to hell by Christian standards, regardless what she thinks is acceptableworlock77

Yet Christ never said one word about homosexuality.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="GamingVengeance"]That lesbian will still be going to hell by Christian standards, regardless what she thinks is acceptablemindstorm

Yet Christ never said one word about homosexuality.

The point is that Christians, I feel, make far too large an issue out of homosexuality. Granted the Old Testament (which many christians are quick to point out doesn't apply to them any other time) does have prohibitions against it. But Jesus never raised the issue (which one would think he would have if he still considered it to a big deal). So it's a bit presumptious to assume that the lesbian is going to Hell "by Christian standards".

For that matter, by Christian standards, it's presumptious to assume that anybody is going to Hell, since judgement is the domain of God and God alone.

It could be construed that way, and I know many people who think that, but the purpose of recognizing and forgiving sins in the Christian faith is to recognize our faults and try our best to correct them.

It's one of those things where the answer is subtle, yet extremely obvious, but people who are trying to be edgy or "smart" try to take it as it's literal meaning when it's the minority of people who try to understand the question actually take it as face-value.

In other words, no, Christians are not given a "license to sin". We are given a way to attone for our mistakes and correct them to make ourselves better people, otherwise it serves no purpose. Think about it: why would a man who believes in an all-knowing, all-powerful omnipotent being try to exploit an obvious loophole he knows only leads to a guaranteed spot in eternal torment and anguish? It's logic I'd expect from an episode of Looney Tunes.

the saddest part is that whoever wrote that letter actually thought they could make a difference using their sentimentalism.

You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love Galatians 5:13hiphops_savior

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me."

Such a loving, peaceful god.

Why are atheist pushing the gay agenda so hard,we get it you support gay people congrats Bucked20

[QUOTE="hiphops_savior"]You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love Galatians 5:13wis3boi

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me."

Such a loving, peaceful god.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="hiphops_savior"]You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love Galatians 5:13hiphops_savior

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me."

Such a loving, peaceful god.

Any decent christian cannot reconcile their own morality with the bible's tales, and this is what I am witnessing right here

Any decent christian cannot reconcile their own morality with the bible's tales, and this is what I am witnessing right here

wis3boi

Sounds like you're just taking things too literally.

My brain is currently not working well enough to actually read the OP, I confess, but in response to the topic title I find that Romans 6:1-2 answers the question, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"mindstorm

My brain is currently not working well enough to actually read the OP, I confess, but in response to the topic title I find that Romans 6:1-2 answers the question, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"mindstorm

It could be construed that way, and I know many people who think that, but the purpose of recognizing and forgiving sins in the Christian faith is to recognize our faults and try our best to correct them.

It's one of those things where the answer is subtle, yet extremely obvious, but people who are trying to be edgy or "smart" try to take it as it's literal meaning when it's the minority of people who try to understand the question actually take it as face-value.

In other words, no, Christians are not given a "license to sin". We are given a way to attone for our mistakes and correct them to make ourselves better people, otherwise it serves no purpose. Think about it: why would a man who believes in an all-knowing, all-powerful omnipotent being try to exploit an obvious loophole he knows only leads to a guaranteed spot in eternal torment and anguish? It's logic I'd expect from an episode of Looney Tunes.

WiiCubeM1

Why are atheist pushing the gay agenda so hard,we get it you support gay people congrats Bucked20

Because if there is no God, then gays should get married.

My question is, why do some homosexuals like this woman still cling to Christianity? Why not just leave church instead of "sitting in fear"? Any religion that makes you feel unwelcome isn't one worth following.

Vari3ty

"Christianity" is a pretty diverse religion. A person can be gay and not have any conflict with their particular flavor of Christianity. (I believe someone around here pointed out that Jesus didn't prohibit it.) However, what I don't understand is why people stay with particular churches that ban some behavior of theirs. Or worse, they go and join a church that disagrees with something they do.

Like, why the f*ck would Palantas go A.) Join a church that says drinking alcohol is against God, and then B.) Complain all the time that this church makes anathema of my favorite pasttime, and C.) Try to get the church to change their position. Why wouldn't I instead go join some church that allows drinking in moderation (as many churches do)? But no, people go and do this all the time, on a whole range of issues.

I don't get it. I theorize that "church" is very much a social thing. People will keep going to a church because they like the people and experience. The theological aspects are secondary to all but the most hardcore believers. So people join churches that don't agree with their lifestyle, then they b!tch about it.

You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love Galatians 5:13hiphops_savior

Why cant the people who are ill treated by religion just drop religion all together and start something new?

This is so much like a toxic relationship.

[QUOTE="Vari3ty"]

My question is, why do some homosexuals like this woman still cling to Christianity? Why not just leave church instead of "sitting in fear"? Any religion that makes you feel unwelcome isn't one worth following.

Palantas

"Christianity" is a pretty diverse religion. A person can be gay and not have any conflict with their particular flavor of Christianity. (I believe someone around here pointed out that Jesus didn't prohibit it.) However, what I don't understand is why people stay with particular churches that ban some behavior of theirs. Or worse, they go and join a church that disagrees with something they do.

Like, why the f*ck would Palantas go A.) Join a church that says drinking alcohol is against God, and then B.) Complain all the time that this church makes anathema of my favorite pasttime, and C.) Try to get the church to change their position. Why wouldn't I instead go join some church that allows drinking in moderation (as many churches do)? But no, people go and do this all the time, on a whole range of issues.

I don't get it. I theorize that "church" is very much a social thing. People will keep going to a church because they like the people and experience. The theological aspects are secondary to all but the most hardcore believers. So people join churches that don't agree with their lifestyle, then they b!tch about it.

Spot on. I guess maybe I could see it if there isn't an "open and affirming" church near them, then you don't have a lot of choice I guess. But in most moderate to larger sized cities one should be able to find at least a few churches that welcome homosexuals into their fold.

I dont like to play internet detective but...

4myAmuzumament

...really?

I'm an atheist but with respect to this question and my past religious education I will try to enlighten people in this discussion

Technically, a christian should not sin but because its unavoidable(if you can actually pull this off your probably the cleanest person i've never known) christians should minimize it instead and ask for forgiveness. 

In response to the church I dont believe it is required to complete your worship with the Lord. Christianity is a BELIEF just like atheism.....not a religion. People can interact and worship the Lord in their houses and worshipping the Lord in a giant chapel doesn't make you holier.

Also, that homo seems to be confused. Its pretty much a "death sentence" for that girl to be part of an extremist, unless she finds a Christian group that actually accepts her gender of choice. Its weird because Christians naturally live in fear toward the Lord and she also lives in fear. But what the concern here is the COMMUNITY...I've seen how far extremist can go concerning homosexuality

[QUOTE="hiphops_savior"]You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love Galatians 5:13Zeviander

I believe the thought shared in the line you quoted is the same that started the eudaimonia pushed by stoic philosophers. It's not "against survival", it just means think about what you do before you do it.

I dont like to play internet detective but...

4myAmuzumament

...really?

Teenaged

Damn.

Thought it was him, but didn't see that.

I believe the thought shared in the line you quoted is the same that started the eudaimonia pushed by stoic philosophers. It's not "against survival", it just means think about what you do before you do it.N30F3N1X

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

Any decent christian cannot reconcile their own morality with the bible's tales, and this is what I am witnessing right here

N30F3N1X

Sounds like you're just taking things too literally.

if the god of christianity is real, and part of his book is literal, and part is metaphor, then he is not only immoral, he is also amazingly stupid. 

[QUOTE="I"]

I don't get it. I theorize that "church" is very much a social thing. People will keep going to a church because they like the people and experience. The theological aspects are secondary to all but the most hardcore believers. So people join churches that don't agree with their lifestyle, then they b!tch about it.

worlock77

Spot on. I guess maybe I could see it if there isn't an "open and affirming" church near them, then you don't have a lot of choice I guess. But in most moderate to larger sized cities one should be able to find at least a few churches that welcome homosexuals into their fold.

Thank you. I live in a small town south of Indianapolis. In town, there are at least a dozen churches. Within 30 minutes, there are probably 100.

if the god of christianity is real, and part of his book is literal, and part is metaphor, then he is not only immoral, he is also amazingly stupid. 

wis3boi

Or perhaps the god of christianity is just to be intended in a different manner from what you think. And besides, how do you define what's literal and what's metaphor?

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

if the god of christianity is real, and part of his book is literal, and part is metaphor, then he is not only immoral, he is also amazingly stupid. 

N30F3N1X

Or perhaps the god of christianity is just to be intended in a different manner from what you think. And besides, how do you define what's literal and what's metaphor?

Just ask your preacher, surely he knows! :P

Just ask your preacher, surely he knows! :P

wis3boi

Don't have any preacher that could, I have my own interpretation of religion.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

Just ask your preacher, surely he knows! :P

N30F3N1X

Don't have any preacher that could, I have my own interpretation of religion.

My point is that you can't.  There are ~3000 types of christianity.  If that god was real and he really cared to spread his message so that everyone followed him, you wouldn't have such fragmentation.