Did Jesus Christ exist?

[QUOTE="XD4NTESINF3RNOX"][QUOTE="D3nnyCrane"] By that logic, it's pointless to work, save money, attend university and attempt self-improvement in the hope it will provide a better future, a future which is not guaranteed at all.

D3nnyCrane

i never said anybody was ridiculous :(

[QUOTE="hydralisk86"]

[QUOTE="XD4NTESINF3RNOX"] why do so many people worship what they can't even see, hear, touch, smell etc isn't that kind of pointless? XD4NTESINF3RNOX

Do you know what you're talking about? Have you heard of what religious people experience? If you went to some churches, you might find people going crazy with these fantastic acts, like being healed, casting out demons, etc. I think I remember other religions having their own stuff that goes on. Have you heard of how people "hear" God's voice?

[QUOTE="D3nnyCrane"][QUOTE="XD4NTESINF3RNOX"] i do all those things and how does religion provide a better future? XD4NTESINF3RNOX

i never said anybody was ridiculous :(

[QUOTE="hydralisk86"]

[QUOTE="XD4NTESINF3RNOX"] why do so many people worship what they can't even see, hear, touch, smell etc isn't that kind of pointless? BlueBirdTS

Do you know what you're talking about? Have you heard of what religious people experience? If you went to some churches, you might find people going crazy with these fantastic acts, like being healed, casting out demons, etc. I think I remember other religions having their own stuff that goes on. Have you heard of how people "hear" God's voice?

I used to "hear" God for many years when I was younger. I prayed multiple times a day and had personal conversations with him. Then I realized I was just communicating with myself, which is still useful, but there's nothing particularly special about it.

This debate has to be one of the most violent worldwide in existence (not this one is specific, but in general, like all of them). This is the debate that starts the majority of wars. BUT, I'd like to share my super super crazy theory. God and Jesus exist, but so did the whole scientific creation of the universe. Let me elaborate. The Big Bang Theory was disproved, but now it's something to do with clumping mass and igniting rocks. Well, what if that's how God did it? What if that's how he made the universe, by using something science can explain? Another thing, no matter when we say the Bible was written, we will always have totally 100% blank spots that were undocumented. What if these were the points where God was developing life? What if man was monkey... but God WANTED it that way? What if he evolved monkeys himself. This theory seems far off, but considering all of the other wacky ideas out there, why not?Pyro767

This is pantheism I believe, which is essentially tantamount to atheism for all practical purposes.

EDIT: Actually, it sounds a bit more like deism.

[QUOTE="BlueBirdTS"]

[QUOTE="hydralisk86"]

Do you know what you're talking about? Have you heard of what religious people experience? If you went to some churches, you might find people going crazy with these fantastic acts, like being healed, casting out demons, etc. I think I remember other religions having their own stuff that goes on. Have you heard of how people "hear" God's voice?

hydralisk86

I used to "hear" God for many years when I was younger. I prayed multiple times a day and had personal conversations with him. Then I realized I was just communicating with myself, which is still useful, but there's nothing particularly special about it.

This is pantheism I believe, which is essentially tantamount to atheism for all practical purposes.

BlueBirdTS

Not really. Pantheism is the belief that existence and truth is God, such that God exists not as a physical entity but as all that we see, experience, and observe. The idea that God exists as an entity unto himself but acts through natural laws and scientifically observable phenomena is closer to deism.

EDIT: And I just saw that you realized that, so never mind. :P

[QUOTE="BlueBirdTS"]

[QUOTE="hydralisk86"]

Do you know what you're talking about? Have you heard of what religious people experience? If you went to some churches, you might find people going crazy with these fantastic acts, like being healed, casting out demons, etc. I think I remember other religions having their own stuff that goes on. Have you heard of how people "hear" God's voice?

hydralisk86

I used to "hear" God for many years when I was younger. I prayed multiple times a day and had personal conversations with him. Then I realized I was just communicating with myself, which is still useful, but there's nothing particularly special about it.

:lol: Touche. I was like 7, God was my version of an imaginary friend.

[QUOTE="BlueBirdTS"]

This is pantheism I believe, which is essentially tantamount to atheism for all practical purposes.

GabuEx

Not really. Pantheism is the belief that existence and truth is God, such that God exists not as a physical entity but as all that we see, experience, and observe. The idea that God exists as an entity unto himself but acts through natural laws and scientifically observable phenomena is closer to deism.

EDIT: And I just saw that you realized that, so never mind. :P

Yeah, I just noticed this. :)

[QUOTE="hydralisk86"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

It seems likely, but quite frankly I also think in the end his actual existence doesn't change that much in terms of this life. If the existence or non-existence of Jesus as the Son of God would cause someone to alter the way in which they live life, then quite frankly I would assert that they're not living life in the best way possible. ;)

GabuEx

And, you assume that if people learn that Jesus was God, that they didn't live life the best way? I'd say they found what they wanted, and personally, that it was good.

What I'm saying is that the ultimate answer to the question of whether or not Jesus actually was the son of God as presented in the Bible should not cause anyone who is living their life right to change their actions in life, and as such, is really immaterial in any terms other than that of a simple question of curiosity. I have found that the instructions that Jesus gives us in the Bible, if followed properly and for the right reasons, bring the most amount of happiness in this life - regardless of whether or not Jesus truly was the son of God.

One ought to follow Jesus' instructions not out of a fear of hell, or because God said so, but rather because he or she recognizes and fully appreciates the immense value and benefit both to his or her own life and to the lives of others in doing so.

I'm no pastor, but I have heard that the reason to follow these laws is because we love God. Because he saved us, loved us, so in gratitude and love, we obey them, and also because they are good. hydralisk86

Well, I'm glad you have a good reason. Honestly, I don't mind if people are religious since religion does seem to bring about a lot of good.

[QUOTE="hydralisk86"]I'm no pastor, but I have heard that the reason to follow these laws is because we love God. Because he saved us, loved us, so in gratitude and love, we obey them, and also because they are good. BlueBirdTS

Well, I'm glad you have a good reason. Honestly, I don't mind if people are religious since religion does seem to bring about a lot of good.

[QUOTE="Pyro767"]This debate has to be one of the most violent worldwide in existence (not this one is specific, but in general, like all of them). This is the debate that starts the majority of wars. BUT, I'd like to share my super super crazy theory. God and Jesus exist, but so did the whole scientific creation of the universe. Let me elaborate. The Big Bang Theory was disproved, but now it's something to do with clumping mass and igniting rocks. Well, what if that's how God did it? What if that's how he made the universe, by using something science can explain? Another thing, no matter when we say the Bible was written, we will always have totally 100% blank spots that were undocumented. What if these were the points where God was developing life? What if man was monkey... but God WANTED it that way? What if he evolved monkeys himself. This theory seems far off, but considering all of the other wacky ideas out there, why not?BlueBirdTS

This is pantheism I believe, which is essentially tantamount to atheism for all practical purposes.

EDIT: Actually, it sounds a bit more like deism.

[QUOTE="BlueBirdTS"]

[QUOTE="hydralisk86"]I'm no pastor, but I have heard that the reason to follow these laws is because we love God. Because he saved us, loved us, so in gratitude and love, we obey them, and also because they are good. XD4NTESINF3RNOX

Well, I'm glad you have a good reason. Honestly, I don't mind if people are religious since religion does seem to bring about a lot of good.

I never said it was all good. You could make the exact same argument for science (atomic bomb, World Wars, etc.). Yet this would be a stupid argument because, at least in my opinion, science has brought about more good than bad just like religion. Neither science nor religion are inherently bad, but both can be exploited for destructive purposes.

there is evidence for the existence of a man by that name, so its highly plausible, but,

do i beleive he was the son of god and could perform miracles ? no.

do i believe the bible offers a faithful representation of the man ? no.

[QUOTE="XD4NTESINF3RNOX"][QUOTE="BlueBirdTS"]

Well, I'm glad you have a good reason. Honestly, I don't mind if people are religious since religion does seem to bring about a lot of good.

BlueBirdTS

I never said it was all good. You could make the exact same argument for science (atomic bomb, World Wars, etc.). Yet this would be a stupid argument because, at least in my opinion, science has brought about more good than bad just like religion. Neither science nor religion are inherently bad, but both can be exploited for destructive purposes.

[QUOTE="BlueBirdTS"]

[QUOTE="Pyro767"]This debate has to be one of the most violent worldwide in existence (not this one is specific, but in general, like all of them). This is the debate that starts the majority of wars. BUT, I'd like to share my super super crazy theory. God and Jesus exist, but so did the whole scientific creation of the universe. Let me elaborate. The Big Bang Theory was disproved, but now it's something to do with clumping mass and igniting rocks. Well, what if that's how God did it? What if that's how he made the universe, by using something science can explain? Another thing, no matter when we say the Bible was written, we will always have totally 100% blank spots that were undocumented. What if these were the points where God was developing life? What if man was monkey... but God WANTED it that way? What if he evolved monkeys himself. This theory seems far off, but considering all of the other wacky ideas out there, why not?Pyro767

This is pantheism I believe, which is essentially tantamount to atheism for all practical purposes.

EDIT: Actually, it sounds a bit more like deism.

1. Deism is basically the belief that God is not directly in the control of the world, that he is not an intervening force (thus natural laws are fully compatible).

2. There's nothing wrong with deism.

[QUOTE="Pyro767"][QUOTE="BlueBirdTS"]

This is pantheism I believe, which is essentially tantamount to atheism for all practical purposes.

EDIT: Actually, it sounds a bit more like deism.

BlueBirdTS

1. Deism is basically the belief that God is not directly in the control of the world, that he is not an intervening force (thus natural laws are fully compatible).

2. There's nothing wrong with deism.

Oh... well in that case I must be like... half Deist. I think God intervenes when He wants to or when He needs to. So I must be some blend of half-Luthern, half-Deist. Now I'm confusing myself.... I shouldn't have gotten involved with this thread :sPyro767

If you think that he intervenes whenever he wants or needs to, that would pretty much make you... not a deist. :P

[QUOTE="Pyro767"]Oh... well in that case I must be like... half Deist. I think God intervenes when He wants to or when He needs to. So I must be some blend of half-Luthern, half-Deist. Now I'm confusing myself.... I shouldn't have gotten involved with this thread :sGabuEx

If you think that he intervenes whenever he wants or needs to, that would pretty much make you... not a deist. :P

[QUOTE="BlueBirdTS"]

[QUOTE="Pyro767"] Ok, I don't get it, explain to me these: 1. What is deism 2. Is it bad?Pyro767

1. Deism is basically the belief that God is not directly in the control of the world, that he is not an intervening force (thus natural laws are fully compatible).

2. There's nothing wrong with deism.

wouldn't you think if God intervened he would have "tried"stopped the Holocaust the KKK he would probably help the poor starving children in Africa WW1, WW2, Vietnam, etc?

Well I also think that he let's nature do it's stuff.Pyro767

Aren't those kind of in direct conflict with one another? Intervening whenever he wants or needs to kind of makes it impossible for nature to do its thing.

[QUOTE="Pyro767"]Well I also think that he let's nature do it's stuff.GabuEx

Aren't those kind of in direct conflict with one another? Intervening whenever he wants or needs to kind of makes it impossible for nature to do its thing.

[QUOTE="Pyro767"]Well I also think that he let's nature do it's stuff.GabuEx

Aren't those kind of in direct conflict with one another? Intervening whenever he wants or needs to kind of makes it impossible for nature to do its thing.

Probably, was he divine? No real evidence has ever been able to prove it.. And we have a infinite amounts of evidence that people can not walk on water rather than fall in.. That you do not raise from the dead after being brain dead.. That you can't heal with your hands dieases and disorders.. sSubZerOo

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="Pyro767"]Well I also think that he let's nature do it's stuff.sSubZerOo

Aren't those kind of in direct conflict with one another? Intervening whenever he wants or needs to kind of makes it impossible for nature to do its thing.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Aren't those kind of in direct conflict with one another? Intervening whenever he wants or needs to kind of makes it impossible for nature to do its thing.

Pyro767

Continue to share your thoughts, just be ready for some people to disagree with you.

[QUOTE="Pyro767"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"] Not to mention destroys the idea of free will.BlueBirdTS

Continue to share your thoughts, just be ready for some people to disagree with you.

He's lived in people's imaginations. Some would consider that that's enough reason to believe...I sure as hell don't.

Wait, so now I'm getting bashed? What's going on here, I was just sharing my idea :|Pyro767

Continue to share your thoughts, just be ready for some people to disagree with you.

[QUOTE="Pyro767"][QUOTE="BlueBirdTS"]

Continue to share your thoughts, just be ready for some people to disagree with you.

sSubZerOo

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="Pyro767"] Well my ideas stand firm, God exists, and he has to help nature sometimes. There, that's my exact idea of the universe.Pyro767

There is no way that someone in their right mind could deny that he lived, that is like saying ceaser didn't exist. The debate is over whether he was who he said he was.

[QUOTE="Pyro767"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"] Don't you understand that a god that decides whats best for us is a abridgement of our free will as a whole? sSubZerOo

[QUOTE="Pyro767"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"] Don't you understand that a god that decides whats best for us is a abridgement of our free will as a whole? sSubZerOo

The person Joseph in the Old Testament was a prototype for the character Jesus Christ. Joseph was a real man, but Jesus was not.MotherSuperior

[QUOTE="MotherSuperior"]The person Joseph in the Old Testament was a prototype for the character Jesus Christ. Joseph was a real man, but Jesus was not.hydralisk86

yes he existed no he was not gods son religion is for the weakSerial-No_3404

Who are you to call me weak, Big and powerful anonymous internet user?

You sure have brass balls behind the veil of secrecy. You've proven your superiority and willingness to overcome any mental obstacle, oh king of men!

We have more evidence of Christ than we do of Alexandar the Great or any other known Greek figure. Hell, our evidence of Socrates is limited at best. By the way, I wouldn't be looking for "research" in religious tolerance. The site is incredibly bias against mainstream religions and makes so many numerous assumptions of Christians, Muslims and Hindus without actually supporting such assertions.

yes he was the son of god. im a christian.these religious discussion threads are getting kinda annoying.